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Avatar universal

Chronic Hbe negative HBV for 14 years.. Now raising its head?

(reposted..)

My hbe neg- hbv, has not been showing itself recently in LFT and HBVDNA numbers or u/s or F'scan: (ALT less than 35 for last 3-4 months-has remained between 19 and 44 in last 7-8 months. And hbvdna that was 28,500 cop/ml in July, is UND since September, 2012-checked twice).

However, the news is that:
a) my cholesterol numbers are getting bad. Total cholesterol is 5.5 against max limit of 5.2, LDL is 3.8 against max limit of 3.4, and HDL is 0.99 against min of 0.9.
b) Prothrombin time was 14 sec in Sep, 12 (lab limit 13). Now it is 15 sec. INR is 1.1.
c) Most importantly, kidneys: Creatinine has reached 114 umol/L (upper limit 124), and uric acid is 465 umol/L (limit 420).

This is a dilemma. If I try to control my cholesterol, that might make blood  thinner which will further increase Proth. time. Also how to manage RFT (Uric acid and creatinine)?
I am not taking any medicines etc now. Just green tea 1/day, and honey in warm water 1/day. I am a thin person, and have started walking 2-3 km a day recently.

So what advice do you have please? Does it have to be an antiviral now? with hbvdna und and ALT in and around 30s? Could that be even useful?

(I am thinking to re-start vit D: had stopped it earlier after taking for 2-3 weeks as i thought it is making my kidney function go down, but even after stopping it, the RFT values are still going slightly up instead of down. I am still going to monitor RFT, and calcium). One thing: they say stress can elevate chol. And I have been stressed lately, maybe that explains the cholesterol part.

Thank you very much.
50 Responses
Avatar universal
Thanks and I am on heptech protocol for one week by now. I plan to monitor by fibroscan as it is available in my country.
Avatar universal
i will strongly advocate ur using HEptech products. i used to have raised cholesterol, but now everythings normal
here is my protocol:
TNF, vid D, Hep tech (All 4 products), Sim. And of course a very healthy diet
Avatar universal
Can you share your heptech experience? Do you monitor progress by fibroscan after starting Heptech protocol?
Avatar universal
I have not been able to have fibroscan done cos not yet available in the country where i live. But i plan to travel soon to have this done. I would strongly recomment the Heptech products.
Avatar universal
How can you strongly recommend heptech protocol if you do not know your fibroscan score baseline when you started and your score now. Heptech is suppose to drop this score. if you do not know your score how can you say it works or not?  
Avatar universal
Thanks for your suggestion.

And the country that I am from, I haven't been able to find heptech products. Also, old posters that I take advise from (such as stef2011) do not yet recommend it for me. I will still try to find what it costs and how to get it across.

(PS: I wanted to select your first reply as Best Answer, but a typo, that I don't know how to undo, selected another post :) )
Avatar universal
1. Could you please copy/paste the reply/advise that you gave me yesterday on the Irbesartan post? I hadn't saved it, and its gone now.

2. Is starting commonly available vit c (maybe higher quantity for desired effect) any good till i can find the type you advised, which might take me some time?

Many thanks, once again!
Avatar universal
1. Could you please copy/paste the reply/advise that you gave me yesterday on the Irbesartan post? I hadn't saved it, and its gone now.

it was probably advice to wait if my tests showed hbv receptor was blocked, sadly the test showed Irbesartan is not able to block the receptor in vivo or at least continually for 24hrs so it wont be of any use.

2. Is starting commonly available vit c (maybe higher quantity for desired effect) any good till i can find the type you advised, which might take me some time?

i think not, normal vit c is not absorbed 100% but max 16% so to get in the blood about 1g of normal vit c you have to take 10g....plus normal vit c makes diarrea and stomach disconfort....while in liposomal form you take 1g and almost a complete 1g reaches inside the cells probably even better than IV making no harm to stomach whatever liposomes dose you take






Avatar universal

we know it works because it is FDA approved, there are human trial and some members experiece including mine on regressing cirrhosis superfast

what joc2011 will not be able to determine is what baseline fibrosis he had and what results he achieved but since it has no sides effects (except the cost) he can only have benefits from it for general health....of course it would be very important to have a baseline firboscan
Avatar universal
Steff, your case of cirrhosis reversal is real illustration of man’s will for all of us. Even when it looked hopeless you found the way out, many people would not!  No doubt it is great achievement and you are the man. But how much of your success would you assign to Heptech protocol? I googled every single ingredient that heptech protocol has on the internet and their protocol seems to be very beneficial for liver even very very beneficial. The thing that drives me crazy is that I can not find any other person except of you and Todd’s testimonial on their web page who improved liver condition by this protocol and have it documented by fibroscan. Users like joc2011 saying “I strongly recommend” I do not take into the account because there is no evidence to recommend. Even heptech web page says that their protocol effect on the liver condition can be checked by Fibroscan only. Also if this protocol is so good why there is no information on other successful of liver improvement on the net but only in this forum?  I received full package of heptech last week and the manufacture date on the bottle says year 2009 while this is 2013 now. At least 4 years since this protocol has been available and exactly 4 years since this pills have been made. 4 years is enough time for many users testimonials to appear on the net as it usually happens with many other thing but I couldn’t find hardly any except yours and their web page. Why? The product is so narrow oriented that should be widely discussed by hbv and hcv communities.

Also why manufacture date 2009, what is it? Stale product? Or overestimated sales plan back in 2009? If this supplement is so good I can not see a reason for low sales, they should be selling them as apple selling Iphones coming up with better model every half year rather then selling 4 years old stuff.

I am not saying Heptech is bad or smth. This is just questions I have in mind when taking 21 heptech tablets per day.

Steff and Studyforhope you guys are the most experienced and proper educated on this forum please give feedback on my peradventures. I think not only I have such thoughts and many forum users would benefit from your feedback on these my questions.
Avatar universal
they had human trials ask for the data of those trials which allowed FDA to approve their protocol for cirrhosis but i think the mice model with human livers is already a prove of the effect of the protocol

you can also see if it works from platlets, pt and albumin which are all low on cirrhosis, after few months on it there is increase in platlets and albumin already, this is on compensated cirrhosis

Avatar universal
I will keep on taking for one month and make platlets and fibroscan then
Avatar universal
fibroscan changes are detectable after one year, not eralier, before the regression there is a pick in firbosis of about 1kpa and then there is the decrease, if fatty liver is present there can be no regression, so i suggest after 6-12 months the first reading after regression has started the changes are faster and every 6 months is ok
in my case kinetics were not homogeneous, slow at first and then sometime no change and sometimes even 4-5kpa change

bmi has the biggest impact especially on cirrhosis or severe fribrosis with bmi less than 23 the best

platlets/albumin if low like 138-150 have an increase towards 200 in few months.hbvdna needs to be und while alt can be abnormal, in my case always 40-50
Avatar universal
You need about one year to see substantial fibrosis regression, unfortunately.

The heptech study at the Alberta university with chimeric mice bearing a human liver and intense fibrosis showed excellent regression of fibrosis verified by direct microscopic and molecular biology analysis of these livers.

The human study progression seems delayed due to extra demands by the Canadian health authorities.
I doubt that many heptech users have a chance to follow progress with sequential fibroscans. And if they do, they would not report it on the Internet, except in a forum like this one. Why don't you post the question if anybody reading this forum had used heptech with fibroscans, properly spaced and had NO improvement?
Avatar universal
Thanks. My search for liposomal vit c is on. On the net, I have so far been able to find one link to a possibly available brand of liposomal product in Pak:

http://www.magiclamp.pk/productView.php?ASIN=B004EKJU9E&cat1=3760931&cat2=&cat3=&cat4=&cat5=#

My hemoglobin level is close to upper limit 9around 15 - 15.2). Will vit c raise it (iron) to dangerous levels?

Would you advocate homeopathic medicines to cater for raised uric acid? They are harmless and a number of friends have used them for kidney problems. I am beginning to have intermittent pain in some joints- maybe due to increased uric acid. Thanks
Avatar universal
i can recomend livon labs which i use, i dont know any other producer directly

vit c plus glutathione are ok and glutathione (gsh) may help with the iron overload
Avatar universal
Could you please clarify the following for me?

1. Broadly speaking, what is an antiviral's mode of action against hbv? We know antivirals do not fight the surface antigen, so HBsAg is not their target. We also know they can (in some cases) work against undetectable hbvdna to improve patients' overall 'health'/prognosis, so the target in such cases is not the replicating dna. If they target hbvdna within the liver (hbvdna that is released by the liver and gets reabsorbed, hence und hbvdna by blood tests), then how can we explain antivirals getting to kidneys to improve renal function? What exactly do drugs like Tnf and Entv target and where?

2. Is there a correlation of alphafetoprotein with chronic hbv with no HCC? What can slowly increasing AFP numbers possibly mean: (a) only  HCC, or, even (b) simply progressing chronic hbv? Do you know of a study that looks at correlation between AFP and hbvdna or between AFP and ALT?

Thanks.
Avatar universal
Antivirals incompletely block the synthesis of new HBV RNA and DNA. They target the viral Polymerase Enzyme  inside the hepatocytes. As a result the virion production is reduced to a very small amount.
This means only a tiny amount of virions circulate in the blood, the result is a reduction in the stimulation of the immune systems attack on the liver, hence the inflammation and fibrosis production is reduced and liver damage is limited.
The small amount of virions still produced gets locally absorbed onto liver cells and maintains a constant small amount of reinfection, balancing the elimination of infected cells. Thus the total percentae of infected liver cells does not reduce much and those cell produce the surface antigen.

It is btw never the surface antigen that is attacked by anything, but the infected cells, the surface antigen simply reflects the number of cells in which it is made.

Antivirals simply enter kidney cells as they are circulating medications. They do not improve kidney function, sometimes they can be toxic to the kidney cells since they tend to concentrate in them.

AFP can be mildly elevated simply by hepatic inflammation, not indicating HCC. In HCC the levels tend to become very high, once the tumor starts to grow.
Avatar universal
Thanks. The way antivirals work is pretty clear to me now.

1. About renal problems: If hbv causes renal problems, like in my case, (i have high serum creatinine level, high uric acid, with normal urea) most likely due to hbv, then shouldn't controlling the root cause (hbv) through antivirals help? I thought I read one or two studies where use of Lam in hbv helped renal function.
If not, is there no way out except waiting for total renal failure? Anything else other than antivirals then? Stefano, you suggested baking soda to someone once if i remember. I dont remember the quantity.

2. Also, for patients (like me) who have Alt persistently in the approx 20-35 range for last 8-10 months, and und hbvdna, doesn't 1. deteriorating renal function (Cr 116 against lab max limit 138, and Uric acid 465 against limit 425) and 2. slow but steady rise of Prothrombin time (lab upper limit 13 sec; my value was 14 in Aug and 15 now) become an important factor to consider treatment? Or does the no-trmt-end-point-defined for hbe- patients still remains reason enough to hold till at least one of u/s, fibroscan, Alt, hbvdna start to go bad? Anything out of the box for the two problems i am facing, deteriorating renal function and increasing PT please? (Stef, I am going to go for the 24 hr urine Cr test next week) and will post those results too).

PS: My symptoms nowadays: mild occasional pain in URQ 4-5 times a day for a few mins, occasional buzzing headaches (stress?), intermittent joint pain. Overall, generally fit, office as usual. Very worried.

Many thanks, again.
Avatar universal

the ways i know to keep kidneys function at beast are:
fibroguard, baking soda 1 tea spoon daily and urine ph kept at about 7, nac, coq10, fish oil

i only had creatinine increase when on etv+alinia 2g, i guess alinia made creatinine increase at that time and fibroguard resolved it.

since then i keep using full heptech protocol which has fibroguard, nac.i dont use coq10 which is mainly from japan and evrything from there is not good now due to radiation.baking soda only when i feel stomach acid and about 2g epa+dha fish oil, all this as prevention and to use tdf without issues
Avatar universal

what about your diet, bmi, blood pressure, sugars and fats in ur diets?is there any possible improvments in this?

high blood pressure can dmage kidneys too if present
Avatar universal
regarding Heptech products...
The last last order I received was all fresh product, with the exception of the HeptoSheild. Apparently this product was manufactured by a division of Pfizer, under full nitrogen blanket which removes all O2, which in-turn blocks ROS. The out come is a 5 year shelf life. Anyone can contact HepTech for all their supporting analytical reports backing this technology.

I have now been using Heptech products for over 5 years and continue to get great results. Yes, Gilead's Sofosbuvir (formerly PSI-7977 or GS-7977) is coming but we all need to take care of our livers while we are waiting.
Avatar universal
regarding my last comment...Sorry I forgot I was on an HBV blog. Viread is still the lead drug of choice as it has proven to be resistance free for up to five years now. Most researchers agree there is no signs of resistance on the horizon...There was also I study from a few years back where approximately 23% of the subjects converted their HBV Surface Antigen using Viread at it's normal 300mg/day...Truly amazing! If you can't find the study and would like to view drop me an email and I will dig it up.
Avatar universal
What are the great results you reffer to can you share please?
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