Aa
Another Dangerous Drinking Question
Hello! I'm new to this group. I have not been taking the best care of myself since being diagnosed about 5 years ago, but I am attempting to redouble my efforts because I'm worried I might be having liver disease symptoms I warn you in advance that, if you can't handle discussing diarrhea and stuff like that, you might not want to read this. But I figured a Hepatitis C forum must have discussed such things before.
I just read the thread about drinking wine, and I just have to tell you all that I did NOT give up drinking after being diagnosed. Part of that was because my liver biopsy showed my liver as only being "fatty" after thirty-some years of pretty heavy social drinking, so I figured my liver must be pretty tough. (Don't worry; I know I've abused it by drinking even one alcoholic drink. I do "get" that, but human nature is not always logical and that's part of why I'm writing.) For the past fifteen years or so, I've had 4-6 beers (and sometimes even more) on weekend days/nights and a few evenings during the week. If I wasn't hanging out with my boyfriend, I rarely drank at home alone, but I got so much into the habit with him that I began even doing that some nights while doing crafts or something by myself. I actually got to like the taste of it, which I never did at first. Even the cheap beer we usualy bought.
One of the reasons I never felt the need to totally STOP drinking was that I am trained as a medical librarian and had done a MEDLINE search. A virtual consensus of the authors stated that none of the research has confirmed (nor denied) that "moderate drinking" accelerates the Hepatitis C disease process.
However, last November an evening of drinking wine (a rare event) left me doubled over in pain on the toilet for about two hours with the most god-awful stuff coming out of me. My mother died of liver and pancreatic cancer and her first symptom was foul-smelling stools. I don't know if she had diarrhea or not; I don't remember her saying she did. But let me tell you, this stuff was foul (As it had been most of the other times as well).
I vowed to cut down or stop drinking. I did cut down dramatically. However, I still do drink with my friends, usually one or two evenings a week, when I drink 2-6 beers (and sometimes manage not to drink at all, something I wouldn't have previously done). This is instead of 2-6 beers on many, sometimes most nights of the week. Anyway, I know even that is 2-6 beers too many.
That is why I'm wondering whether I should just stay on this track, with the eventual goal of not drinking at all (or maybe one glass of wine on rare occasions, might I dare to say), or whether it sounds like I'm just rationalizing and do have a problem with drinking and should go find an AA meeting.
Thoughts welcome, and I realize I may be inviting some not-too-pleasant responses. I'm tough, though. Be honest. If I don't hear from anyone, I'll just chalk it up to this subject being a bit too raw right now.
Thanks,
Mary (Ladysslipper)
I just read the thread about drinking wine, and I just have to tell you all that I did NOT give up drinking after being diagnosed. Part of that was because my liver biopsy showed my liver as only being "fatty" after thirty-some years of pretty heavy social drinking, so I figured my liver must be pretty tough. (Don't worry; I know I've abused it by drinking even one alcoholic drink. I do "get" that, but human nature is not always logical and that's part of why I'm writing.) For the past fifteen years or so, I've had 4-6 beers (and sometimes even more) on weekend days/nights and a few evenings during the week. If I wasn't hanging out with my boyfriend, I rarely drank at home alone, but I got so much into the habit with him that I began even doing that some nights while doing crafts or something by myself. I actually got to like the taste of it, which I never did at first. Even the cheap beer we usualy bought.
One of the reasons I never felt the need to totally STOP drinking was that I am trained as a medical librarian and had done a MEDLINE search. A virtual consensus of the authors stated that none of the research has confirmed (nor denied) that "moderate drinking" accelerates the Hepatitis C disease process.
However, last November an evening of drinking wine (a rare event) left me doubled over in pain on the toilet for about two hours with the most god-awful stuff coming out of me. My mother died of liver and pancreatic cancer and her first symptom was foul-smelling stools. I don't know if she had diarrhea or not; I don't remember her saying she did. But let me tell you, this stuff was foul (As it had been most of the other times as well).
I vowed to cut down or stop drinking. I did cut down dramatically. However, I still do drink with my friends, usually one or two evenings a week, when I drink 2-6 beers (and sometimes manage not to drink at all, something I wouldn't have previously done). This is instead of 2-6 beers on many, sometimes most nights of the week. Anyway, I know even that is 2-6 beers too many.
That is why I'm wondering whether I should just stay on this track, with the eventual goal of not drinking at all (or maybe one glass of wine on rare occasions, might I dare to say), or whether it sounds like I'm just rationalizing and do have a problem with drinking and should go find an AA meeting.
Thoughts welcome, and I realize I may be inviting some not-too-pleasant responses. I'm tough, though. Be honest. If I don't hear from anyone, I'll just chalk it up to this subject being a bit too raw right now.
Thanks,
Mary (Ladysslipper)
I had no idea I even had hepc and kept drinking and by the time I found out I had it was already stage 3 and almost at cirrhosis. Yes it is gasoline on the fire - and as Kalio said it is the SILENT Killer.
I don't want to get into any big alcohol discussion but is to get the biopsy quickly and find out where you stand with this disease. With your mothers issues you may have already quite a bit of liver damage and not know about it (doubling over in pain might be a sign - that doesn't happen to a normal moderate drinker). The biopsy is painless although it sounds dreadful.
if you researched this in truth I can't imagine how you came up with this it's ok outlook unless you ignored 100 articles and focused on the two that said it was ok and were written by incompetents.
Moderate drinking is alright for a normal person but not for someone with a deadly disease of the LIVER.
I don't want to get into any big alcohol discussion but is to get the biopsy quickly and find out where you stand with this disease. With your mothers issues you may have already quite a bit of liver damage and not know about it (doubling over in pain might be a sign - that doesn't happen to a normal moderate drinker). The biopsy is painless although it sounds dreadful.
if you researched this in truth I can't imagine how you came up with this it's ok outlook unless you ignored 100 articles and focused on the two that said it was ok and were written by incompetents.
Moderate drinking is alright for a normal person but not for someone with a deadly disease of the LIVER.
Make all the excuses you want ladysslipper,
but you will be hard pressed to find anyone that will agree with you and your excuses to continue to drink. You know it's wrong in your heart of hearts. Being a trained medical librarian - you need to start researching HCV and give up the booze!
If HCV doesn't scare you enough to give it up then check out "desrt" post-link above.
I assume you want to live and feel better, get help...
enigma
but you will be hard pressed to find anyone that will agree with you and your excuses to continue to drink. You know it's wrong in your heart of hearts. Being a trained medical librarian - you need to start researching HCV and give up the booze!
If HCV doesn't scare you enough to give it up then check out "desrt" post-link above.
I assume you want to live and feel better, get help...
enigma
that Ok, we all say, de-nile is not a river in Egypt.
At least you are willing to think about it now....which I hope many will do before their liver is shot either by knowingly or not hurting it.
to answer your question, yes those can be liver symptoms, they can also be gallbladder related. Unfortunately my docs would NOT believe me for over a year refused to test my gallbladder. Instead they started me on chemo for the HCV and then FINALLY agreed to do a HIDASCAN and discovered my gallbladder was kaput and had to remove it while I'm on tx.
rule out GallB first, especially if you have any nausea or more reaction when you eat fat or protein.
I think once the liver gets to a certain point, it's like having one the size of an 8 year old...or even a baby....and so you must learn how to eat and help yourself to stay well.
Sometimes it takes a wake up call like what you described.
. Also if they diagnosed you years ago..there wasn't much they could do...but the chemo has a known rate of success now, and so there is lots more hope of a cure than a few years ago. 90% cure rate for some genotypes.
the main thing is for you to get to a doctor, make an appt to see a liver doctor(waiting list can be long but get an appt) meanwhile, you may want to get into emergency if the
problem continues.....meaning if it's a garden variety "bug" you should be fine in a few days. However if it is an off and on problem...or cramping is severe.......
then I would consider emergency since E-coli and other yuk stuff can also cause what you are desribing. But it sounds like you've had it before?? after wine right??
Imodium may help slow the runs...but you need to not overdo that...you want to find out what is causing it for sure, the wine or your diet, and narrow down further by the right tests for liver, GB and endoscopic procedures.
To be real honest here, it sounds like you see the obvious correlation to the illness and your alcohol consumption. Admitting that there is a probllem is NUMERO UNO...very important to admit...so it's great you did that!!!
Next is to ask for help and accept the help...for you...do it for YOU.
Just think of it like any other habit. Habits are hard to break. We can be dependant on something t help us recreate or feel comfortable, and it becomes a habit.
there's no shame in having the habit. Like drinking coffee....my hubby drinks too much and it makes him cranky and not sleep etc. but until you see something is destroying your health it's hard to stop.....but not impossible.
I think if you go to a AA meeting you'd be amazed. The one I went to was at a church near me at night.., and no one even mentioned their faith...it wasn't a "christian" group...just using the church....but many there had faith and prayed for me, I found out later....., but they all just opened up and it was amazing....
real people, real lives and heartaches, and a chance to have people who understand pulling for you.
I was married to an alcoholic, and later, after my divorce, became dependant myself for a couple of years.....which was really weird since I divorced him because of his drinking.....but we all are vunerable flawed human beings.........I think I started to drink, not to join my husband, but to spite him...because he gave me such a bad time once for getting tipsy after moving to another house all day....he made such an issue of my whole 2 glasses of wine...the only wine I'd had all year...that I rebelled...I would show him!! .Then when we broke up I had to work 3 jobs and raise the children alone...and began to self-medicate at night because the tension was so relentless... thank God He woke me up, before I messed up everything...but for a while...well.....I call them my lost years...I can see that now....they call alcohol a baffling substance for a reason....
that reason is it is even bit as addictive as heroin.....or as they say in AA....all drugs can be reduced to a fine white powder...including alcohol...in that form, it kind of puts the drug in perspective.
I'm really glad you read that thread...I tell my incarcerated girls where I volunteer to just go take a whiff off your fingernail polish remover bottle before you decide whether to go out drinking each night....because thats what will be in your body and brain for the next 24 hours if you do!! Just smelling that stuff makes one really think long and hard!!.
but it's hard when you are thinking you are all alone in something....you are not!!.
But the worse thing you can do with this disease is to drink, so please,
Get help, even if your boyfriend never does, it will be the best thing you can ever do for yourself.
maryB
At least you are willing to think about it now....which I hope many will do before their liver is shot either by knowingly or not hurting it.
to answer your question, yes those can be liver symptoms, they can also be gallbladder related. Unfortunately my docs would NOT believe me for over a year refused to test my gallbladder. Instead they started me on chemo for the HCV and then FINALLY agreed to do a HIDASCAN and discovered my gallbladder was kaput and had to remove it while I'm on tx.
rule out GallB first, especially if you have any nausea or more reaction when you eat fat or protein.
I think once the liver gets to a certain point, it's like having one the size of an 8 year old...or even a baby....and so you must learn how to eat and help yourself to stay well.
Sometimes it takes a wake up call like what you described.
. Also if they diagnosed you years ago..there wasn't much they could do...but the chemo has a known rate of success now, and so there is lots more hope of a cure than a few years ago. 90% cure rate for some genotypes.
the main thing is for you to get to a doctor, make an appt to see a liver doctor(waiting list can be long but get an appt) meanwhile, you may want to get into emergency if the
problem continues.....meaning if it's a garden variety "bug" you should be fine in a few days. However if it is an off and on problem...or cramping is severe.......
then I would consider emergency since E-coli and other yuk stuff can also cause what you are desribing. But it sounds like you've had it before?? after wine right??
Imodium may help slow the runs...but you need to not overdo that...you want to find out what is causing it for sure, the wine or your diet, and narrow down further by the right tests for liver, GB and endoscopic procedures.
To be real honest here, it sounds like you see the obvious correlation to the illness and your alcohol consumption. Admitting that there is a probllem is NUMERO UNO...very important to admit...so it's great you did that!!!
Next is to ask for help and accept the help...for you...do it for YOU.
Just think of it like any other habit. Habits are hard to break. We can be dependant on something t help us recreate or feel comfortable, and it becomes a habit.
there's no shame in having the habit. Like drinking coffee....my hubby drinks too much and it makes him cranky and not sleep etc. but until you see something is destroying your health it's hard to stop.....but not impossible.
I think if you go to a AA meeting you'd be amazed. The one I went to was at a church near me at night.., and no one even mentioned their faith...it wasn't a "christian" group...just using the church....but many there had faith and prayed for me, I found out later....., but they all just opened up and it was amazing....
real people, real lives and heartaches, and a chance to have people who understand pulling for you.
I was married to an alcoholic, and later, after my divorce, became dependant myself for a couple of years.....which was really weird since I divorced him because of his drinking.....but we all are vunerable flawed human beings.........I think I started to drink, not to join my husband, but to spite him...because he gave me such a bad time once for getting tipsy after moving to another house all day....he made such an issue of my whole 2 glasses of wine...the only wine I'd had all year...that I rebelled...I would show him!! .Then when we broke up I had to work 3 jobs and raise the children alone...and began to self-medicate at night because the tension was so relentless... thank God He woke me up, before I messed up everything...but for a while...well.....I call them my lost years...I can see that now....they call alcohol a baffling substance for a reason....
that reason is it is even bit as addictive as heroin.....or as they say in AA....all drugs can be reduced to a fine white powder...including alcohol...in that form, it kind of puts the drug in perspective.
I'm really glad you read that thread...I tell my incarcerated girls where I volunteer to just go take a whiff off your fingernail polish remover bottle before you decide whether to go out drinking each night....because thats what will be in your body and brain for the next 24 hours if you do!! Just smelling that stuff makes one really think long and hard!!.
but it's hard when you are thinking you are all alone in something....you are not!!.
But the worse thing you can do with this disease is to drink, so please,
Get help, even if your boyfriend never does, it will be the best thing you can ever do for yourself.
maryB
You might want to do a little further research on fatty liver, it's a health threat in and of itself. Having HCV along with fatty liver and drinking, not to mention your Mom's liver issues and possible genetic predispositions you might have, I agree with FlGuy, you will eventually stop drinking....
but you don't want to stop breathing to do it!
HCV and heavy alcohol drinking is a lethal combo.
HCV is a "silent killer" disease meaning it "silently" does it's dirty work unbeknownst to you. Your body seems to be telling you something now, so listen!
The only way to know where you stand is to have a full hepatic panel done and a biopsy. I suggest you do that ASAP.
Along with being incredibly foul, are your stools light in color? White? Do you have other symptoms? Tired a lot? Are your palms red? Any little tiny pin sized red dots on your body? Did you have a biopsy in the past?
Diarrhea that lasts for any amount of time is a health issue that deserves attention and yes, it could be related to HCV. Along with stopping drinking, you should be eating a seriously healthy diet with no refined foods, avoid red meat and sugar. Eat lots of veggies.
You can't treat your HCV if you are drinking should you decide to treat it.
For those who drink alcohol heavily, and a six pack is heavy drinking by docs standards, the picture is not so rosy.
My advice? Wake up and face your disease before it's too late. See a good Heptologist, get yourself a biopsy and hope it comes out ok then fight your disease because YOU are the one who will pay the consequences of this deadly virus. Google "extra hepatic illness" to see thathaving HCV puts you at MUCH higher risk for many other illnesses and diseases, diabetes for one, but there are many others.
Don't be afraid of facing your HCV, you can do it!
I thought it would be hard to stop drinking but it wasn't nearly as hard as I thought it would be when I actually did it. Think of it this way, HCV is attacking your immune system/liver/body and alcohol is helping it and escalating the chances of liver damage.
You can do it, if you need help AA can help. This forum can help.
I was Geno 3a, treated 6 mos. failed, found out I had cirrhosis at that point, (suprise!)treated about 2 years and beat it.Hooray
HCV is the NUMBER ONE reason for liver transplant in America today, don't help it hurt you by drinking.
Glad you found the forum.
PS. I still drink cocktails all the time, just no alcohol in them
but you don't want to stop breathing to do it!
HCV and heavy alcohol drinking is a lethal combo.
HCV is a "silent killer" disease meaning it "silently" does it's dirty work unbeknownst to you. Your body seems to be telling you something now, so listen!
The only way to know where you stand is to have a full hepatic panel done and a biopsy. I suggest you do that ASAP.
Along with being incredibly foul, are your stools light in color? White? Do you have other symptoms? Tired a lot? Are your palms red? Any little tiny pin sized red dots on your body? Did you have a biopsy in the past?
Diarrhea that lasts for any amount of time is a health issue that deserves attention and yes, it could be related to HCV. Along with stopping drinking, you should be eating a seriously healthy diet with no refined foods, avoid red meat and sugar. Eat lots of veggies.
You can't treat your HCV if you are drinking should you decide to treat it.
For those who drink alcohol heavily, and a six pack is heavy drinking by docs standards, the picture is not so rosy.
My advice? Wake up and face your disease before it's too late. See a good Heptologist, get yourself a biopsy and hope it comes out ok then fight your disease because YOU are the one who will pay the consequences of this deadly virus. Google "extra hepatic illness" to see thathaving HCV puts you at MUCH higher risk for many other illnesses and diseases, diabetes for one, but there are many others.
Don't be afraid of facing your HCV, you can do it!
I thought it would be hard to stop drinking but it wasn't nearly as hard as I thought it would be when I actually did it. Think of it this way, HCV is attacking your immune system/liver/body and alcohol is helping it and escalating the chances of liver damage.
You can do it, if you need help AA can help. This forum can help.
I was Geno 3a, treated 6 mos. failed, found out I had cirrhosis at that point, (suprise!)treated about 2 years and beat it.Hooray
HCV is the NUMBER ONE reason for liver transplant in America today, don't help it hurt you by drinking.
Glad you found the forum.
PS. I still drink cocktails all the time, just no alcohol in them
Chiming in I was just diagnosed 2 months ago, had my biopsy 3 weeks ago, and my hepatologist who is also a transplant hepatologist *impressed me* said and he is on the youngish side late 30's that alcohol w/ hep c is like pouring gasoline on a fire, so that does not sound good to me. Please do your best to take care of yourself. M4now
I'm with Bill on this, a poo thread and an alcohol thread all combined into one. Now, if we could interject a little sex (good try beamer) and maybe a little occult virus talk we'd have the full package. But, you seem to know that people will tell you that both hcv and alcohol is an assault on your liver and that you know it as well. So, there's got to be more to it. One thing that you can be sure of is that if you 'stay on this track' you are correct that you will eventually stop drinking.
can i be an a-- now bill?thanks for opening the door..i was real good to stay out of that last alcohol thread..ok ..alcohol is just so bad for you..unless you are a moderate drinker and you weren't...before i learned i had hep i was biking long distances and would keep my heart rate up for like an hour and a half real high..then one day i got real bad diarrhea...this went on for months...i kept exercising though..this was one one of the symptoms i had 10 years ago...then the fatigue and other stuff..now all the while i was having a couple drinks every night..no one including myself thought i was an alcoholic..so my drinking got worse untill the last two years i was drinking a third of a fifth of vodka most nights...my symptoms got worse...then i stopped one day..and three days later i thought i was going to die..anyway i got blood test done..had high alt asts..and thats when they did the test for hep..so that came back positive..withdrawals were terrible...i cut down to 1 to 2 beers a day..i really didn't know any better..everyone told me that little couldn't effect me..well i had withdrawal symptoms go on with a fever that wouldn't stop...a year went by and i stopped the 1 to 2 beers a day...well that threw me right back into bad wthdrawals again..fever all the time..dizzyness..anxiety so bad..all kinds of pain... thats from only 1 to 2 beers a day..then after a couple months i found this forum and it's been great..i got a biopsy and all the tests...got through my withdrawals ...so having hep c and drinking is way different then someone that doesn't have hep c and drinks...and the withdrawals probably will be way worse with al kinds of pain and other symptoms...and your 48...keep drinking and see how you feel at 52..your liver is dying...you have to give it up...all the way...you were drinking so long before you cut down that now even drinking less now is still killing you.....good luck...billy
My husband wanted to know if he could have a drink now and then and was told absolutely not. He was also told it was like drinking poison to his system. He was also told that not drinking could help undo damage that was done... but that's just what he was told not sure how accurate it is. :)
Mary,you already know the answer to this question -you are flotsam on a big river in Africa.I have no interest in doing a Spitzer,as hypocrisy is a such an ignoble human failing.Goodluck and duck!
Welcome, I have to disagree with your research about alcohol "not" having an affect either way with HCV. I have read several times that alcohol "does" accelerate liver damage in someone with HCV. Of course with this disease nothing is 100% for sure, but from what I have read about alcohol and HCV why take the chance. You have seen with your mother what an ugly death by liver disease is so of all people you should want to give yourself the best chance not to end up the same way. The best chance is NO alcohol, good diet and exercise. HCV has a funny way of sneaking up on you and biting you in the @ss. At least get yourself a more recent biopsy to see where you stand. Best of luck
Now, combining a poop thread with an alcohol thread should prove to win you a five-star rating around here… ingenious technique! Welcome to Medhelp, by the way.
Have you discussed this with your doctor yet? I’d be curios to hear his take. Additionally, have you had a biopsy since you’re initial diagnosis?
It sounds like a fascinating job being a medical librarian- if nothing else, it’d be interesting to hear more about that field.
I’m sure you’ll get an interesting response to your query; stick around for a while and see how things develop.
Take care,
Bill
Have you discussed this with your doctor yet? I’d be curios to hear his take. Additionally, have you had a biopsy since you’re initial diagnosis?
It sounds like a fascinating job being a medical librarian- if nothing else, it’d be interesting to hear more about that field.
I’m sure you’ll get an interesting response to your query; stick around for a while and see how things develop.
Take care,
Bill
I would say to yes definitely try to stop drinking and take care of yourself with proper nutrition, exercise and then think about treating the hepatitus, unless you have little damage and would rather wait for new drugs. You mentioned you have fatty liver, do you know your stage/grade and geno type? These are things that will help you decide if you should tx - if thats the route you choose. Most people have a few consultations with several doctors(Hepatologists) and then make up their mind.
Wish you the best.
MO
Wish you the best.
MO
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