Aa
Eyedeas or any other naysayer.......a natural substance that really works
The reason natural substances like Maitake mushroom and EGCG from green tea aren't researched or made into drugs for mass consumption is because the pharmaceutical companies are aware that THEY CANNOT PATENT A NATURAL SUBSTANCE!
nuff said
http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2006icr/aasld/docs/111406_e.html
nuff said
http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2006icr/aasld/docs/111406_e.html
Weren't shrooms and buttons some of the natural substances which got some us into this fine mess?
You Listen up pal!!! You think your cute and witty, guess what your not and I'm not sure who told you otherwise! I'm not infering that anyone should use natural substances as a subsitute for INterferon/Riba but as a possible addition to them you narrow minded sheep! I'm not peddling any snake oil because I am currently on theses horrible drugs but I'm only trying to convey the fact that use what ever works even if it comes from nature. Your a lame bully nothing else, nothing more!
I'm a firm believer in alternative medicine but I have to agree with revenire_ on this one. If you're actually interested in patent law as it applies to HCV, try googling the name 'Chiron' and find out why Roche and S-P have to charge so much for their products.
Just a little info for you . The colloidal silver you poo poo is used currently in American hospitals to treat severe burn victims fom developing skin infections on their skin due to viral and bacterial guests. It does have medicinal value.
Calm down. hey the guy is not saying instead of...but in addition too. Honestly we don't know what else might work or help. As someone who treatment failed to cure I am open to at least talking about alternatives, otherwise what is my opition give up! Ya I know there are new treatments right around the corner "and with a subway token I can...". Just because it is non traditional dosen't mean that it couldn't be true. Lets not attack here but have healthy discussions. Rev from what I have read from you I know that might be hard for you to do although I thought I detected a more gental kinder Rev showing himself.
I think you were the one who asked me what herbs I co-txd with. As I've said before, I don't promote products, but I am still looking for the breakdown on those formulas and if I ever find them, I'll send them to you on another website.
The caveat is, I have no idea if I cleared because of or in spite of them, and you research them at your own risk.
The caveat is, I have no idea if I cleared because of or in spite of them, and you research them at your own risk.
I also didn't see any reference in St. George's post to "cure", etc. What the article talks about is "tea" -- no, no, no -- not that kind of tea :) But green tea in an extract form. And not to cure HCV but as a possible avenue of treatment for fibrosis and NAFLD (nonalcoholic fatty liver disease).
In part the referenced study reads:
"Based on the results of both studies, the researchers suggested that green tea polyphenols may be a useful therapeutic agent for treatment of hepatic fibrosis and a useful supplement in the treatment of NAFLD (Nonalcoholic fatty liver disease)."
Green tea has been in the news a lot lately. Hey, I had a bottle of Arizona Green tea with Ginseng and Honey an hour ago. Good, healthy stuff. Supposed to be good for your heart as well, even your gums.
The point about no big money, no big research dollars is also well taken.
Yes, right now SOC is peg and riba but before and after tx, we should be open to let's say, more "natural" agents -- as well as other healty living concepts -- for better liver histology and perhaps immune system enhancement.
-- Jim
In part the referenced study reads:
"Based on the results of both studies, the researchers suggested that green tea polyphenols may be a useful therapeutic agent for treatment of hepatic fibrosis and a useful supplement in the treatment of NAFLD (Nonalcoholic fatty liver disease)."
Green tea has been in the news a lot lately. Hey, I had a bottle of Arizona Green tea with Ginseng and Honey an hour ago. Good, healthy stuff. Supposed to be good for your heart as well, even your gums.
The point about no big money, no big research dollars is also well taken.
Yes, right now SOC is peg and riba but before and after tx, we should be open to let's say, more "natural" agents -- as well as other healty living concepts -- for better liver histology and perhaps immune system enhancement.
-- Jim
One more thing. How can you argue with your precious scientists who have conducted theses rigorous scientific studies on natural adjuncts to therapy. Oh, maybe you have a ph.D in one of the science disciplines and believe you are on these guys levels of expertise. Guess what tough guy , these studies on natural substances don't get published in peer reviewed journals without hard science backing them up.
Child: what is bottomline sheep?
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C'mon, it's a little to early for that kind of talk :)
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C'mon, it's a little to early for that kind of talk :)
Well. I think if they can sythetically make our bodies natural substance called "interferon" I do believe they may be able to synthetically make the stuff you are speaking of and so...patent that.
Some of these things could prove to be beneficial. I wouldn't rule it out but the jury is still out.
Collodial silver might have some legitimate applications, however it is not effective against HCV.
Obviously you are convinced that Interferon/Ribivirin is "toxic" but in proven studies it has been shown to improve liver histology. It is the ONLY treatment available today that can eradicate the virus in some patients. Some of us have to act fast to suppress the virus, even if we can't get rid of it.
Everything, including the herbal remedies you are sold on can be toxic. To think that because it is "natural" it is therfore harmless can be a dangerous health mistake.
A lot of us here are treating because we had NO CHOICE but to treat, please take that into consideration. You sound like you DO have choices, how lucky you are. To choose to "watch and wait" means you probably have little or no liver damage so you have the LUXURY of choice.
If you are willing to put off dealing with the virus and can live with this nonlinear disease, that is your right. Some of us aren't as blessed.
Collodial silver might have some legitimate applications, however it is not effective against HCV.
Obviously you are convinced that Interferon/Ribivirin is "toxic" but in proven studies it has been shown to improve liver histology. It is the ONLY treatment available today that can eradicate the virus in some patients. Some of us have to act fast to suppress the virus, even if we can't get rid of it.
Everything, including the herbal remedies you are sold on can be toxic. To think that because it is "natural" it is therfore harmless can be a dangerous health mistake.
A lot of us here are treating because we had NO CHOICE but to treat, please take that into consideration. You sound like you DO have choices, how lucky you are. To choose to "watch and wait" means you probably have little or no liver damage so you have the LUXURY of choice.
If you are willing to put off dealing with the virus and can live with this nonlinear disease, that is your right. Some of us aren't as blessed.
25 years ago I knew someone who had a piece of silver foil put over their burn in a hospital to prevent infection. This was just before they grafted a piece of pigskin over the burn.
Methinks medical technology has improved somewhat over what they were doing in rural N.M. back then.
Methinks medical technology has improved somewhat over what they were doing in rural N.M. back then.
Does anyone find this bloated old dudes humor funny. Maybe his family finds him hillarious, but I think he is an ill informed tired old man behind a keyboard!
It was just another lame "sheep" joke. I'd repeat one but some may find it too "adult" :) Google "sheep jokes" if you want but keep in mind many will be rated "R" or above :)
MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL
I tried to get a look at these studies, but the link as displayed gives me a dead page. ???
Fibrosis research is extremely important, in the end - aside from HCC - it is the accumulation of fibrosis that is the essence of cirrhosis. If we could halt fibrosis progression even in the face of a mildy inflammatory liver, then maybe a lot of patients even without SVR could get stabilized. Fibrosis is a dynamic process. Its speed is dependend on individual variability in the response of the stellate system to proinflammatory signals from the surrounding infiltrate.
Several antifibrotics are in development to inhibit the activation of the predominant molecular aspect -Transforming Groth Factor beta (TGFbeta) activation that controls the transformation of these stellate cells into Collagen Fiber producing myofibroblasts "Transdifferentiation". If this molecular signaling pathway / machinery is oversensitive, then we have fast fibrosers as maybe Kalio or others here, while others are fine for decades. It is clear that the best thing to reduce or halt fibrosis is removal of the inflammation causing agent - the antigens of the HCV virus. But interference with the scar forming mechanisms that perform not a very useful but a deadly function in the liver is a realistic possibility ( "antifibrotics"). Chemically synthesized new chemicals/drugs that you can patent are the logical choice for the pharma industry , since they have to go through an expensive process of testing and proving in large trial towards the FDA that these drugs actually work for this indication and not do more harm than good.These cost need to be recovered (and are often "overrecovered"). If they would use natural substances for these trials they could never recover the cost for this scientific proof and others would simply start selling the same thing after the trial publications would come out. Overall this is a problematic situation, since many good medications are not developed in a scientifically sound way while some of these " natural substances" might be better/ less toxic than the patentable chemicals.
At NGI, many trials for new drugs against HCV and other viral diseases have come our way, since we tested if they worked and we got a look into the design and had the investigator brochures with all the details. We have seen drugs like Ribozymes come and go and knew the results way before any meeting presentation. We also had - and that brings it up here - some "Oral Interferon Inducers" to test and yes they were very IFN +other cytokines inducing.
Fibrosis research is extremely important, in the end - aside from HCC - it is the accumulation of fibrosis that is the essence of cirrhosis. If we could halt fibrosis progression even in the face of a mildy inflammatory liver, then maybe a lot of patients even without SVR could get stabilized. Fibrosis is a dynamic process. Its speed is dependend on individual variability in the response of the stellate system to proinflammatory signals from the surrounding infiltrate.
Several antifibrotics are in development to inhibit the activation of the predominant molecular aspect -Transforming Groth Factor beta (TGFbeta) activation that controls the transformation of these stellate cells into Collagen Fiber producing myofibroblasts "Transdifferentiation". If this molecular signaling pathway / machinery is oversensitive, then we have fast fibrosers as maybe Kalio or others here, while others are fine for decades. It is clear that the best thing to reduce or halt fibrosis is removal of the inflammation causing agent - the antigens of the HCV virus. But interference with the scar forming mechanisms that perform not a very useful but a deadly function in the liver is a realistic possibility ( "antifibrotics"). Chemically synthesized new chemicals/drugs that you can patent are the logical choice for the pharma industry , since they have to go through an expensive process of testing and proving in large trial towards the FDA that these drugs actually work for this indication and not do more harm than good.These cost need to be recovered (and are often "overrecovered"). If they would use natural substances for these trials they could never recover the cost for this scientific proof and others would simply start selling the same thing after the trial publications would come out. Overall this is a problematic situation, since many good medications are not developed in a scientifically sound way while some of these " natural substances" might be better/ less toxic than the patentable chemicals.
At NGI, many trials for new drugs against HCV and other viral diseases have come our way, since we tested if they worked and we got a look into the design and had the investigator brochures with all the details. We have seen drugs like Ribozymes come and go and knew the results way before any meeting presentation. We also had - and that brings it up here - some "Oral Interferon Inducers" to test and yes they were very IFN +other cytokines inducing.
welcome back rev glad to see you up to your old self again only one day after you apologized. LOL, i knew it was to good to be true. i do believe in "natural" meds/herbs to "CONTROL" & "LIMIT" damage from hcv & hbv. it will lower vl & enzymes, NOT cure the virus, but perhaps in the future. i have been doing a lot of research lately on TCM and other alternatives and will post what i come up with in the near future.
Check into AHCC(active hexose correlated compound) a mushroom extract consisting of beta glucans. It has many peer reviewed studies on its ability to boost NK cells through the roof as well as putting the body in a TH1 ready state which we need to fight HCV.
You should be glad you had Interferon available if you have had to treat 3 times. I agree, as I am sure everyone here does, that we need a better treatment that is easier on us but that doesn't mean we should start up taking things like these mushrooms. Or collodial silver or this liver product or that one. TCM is very "in" right now, for the most part I think it is all a waste of money, BIG money. Get a load of the prices on these things. Sheesh.
I was told not to take any herbs or supplements on tx. Others say it is ok. I figure since no one really knows, I am not going to chance it. Once I am off tx, Im going to do a few things that I feel could help and at the same time not harm me.
I do read the info. you post here and I appreciate it. I try to keep an open mind.
I was told not to take any herbs or supplements on tx. Others say it is ok. I figure since no one really knows, I am not going to chance it. Once I am off tx, Im going to do a few things that I feel could help and at the same time not harm me.
I do read the info. you post here and I appreciate it. I try to keep an open mind.
You, unlike The Rev, sound like a rational human. The Rev behaves like a child who has missed a dose of his Ridlin.
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