HR's supplements plus other anti-fibrotics

[mhudnall]

Let's try again. The following list of supplements are for those not currently on INF treatment. To be clear, no one is making the argument not to treat with INF. But if you are not on INF treatment, if you have failed treatment, if you cannot treat, or if you are waiting to treat, then these are supplements that may help your liver.


The following is a list of HR's list of supplements:

http://www.medhelp.org/user_journals/show/4497

They include:

"A multi vitamin/no iron

1000 mg of Salmon Oil (epa=160 mg / dha=240 mg / omega 3 = 400 mg) x1

1000 mg of Flaxseed Oil (ALA/omega 3 450 mg / omega 9 110 mg) x1
Raw flaxseed/ 1 teaspoon daily

Hepatapro PPC (900 mg) x 2
info:  http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/346752 ; 


Resveratrol (500 mg) x1  and x2 (alternate every other day)
info:   http://www.lef.org/resveratrol/
source:   http://megaresveratrol.com/


NAC--(n-acetyl-l-cysteine) A sulfur compound that is a precursor of glutathione and protected sulfur-containing amino acid  (600 mg) x2 with Vit C (500 mg) x2
Info:   http://tinyurl.com/9yopf

TMG (750 mg) x 2
http://www.raysahelian.com/trimethylglycine.html

Taurine (500 mg) x 2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurine

Life Extension Super Curcumin W/Bioperine 800Mg 60 Caps (800 mg) x 2  / Powerful Antioxidant Properties to scavenge free radicals
Anti-Inflammatory Actions
Enhances important detoxification enzymes Curcumin increases the secretion of bile by stimulating the bile duct. It also protects the liver by detoxification, stimulating the gall bladder and scavenging free radicals. With the help of the adrenal glands, it inhibits both platelet aggregation and the enzymes which induce inflammatory prostaglandins. Curcumin may also help break down fats and reduce cholesterol. Large doses not recommended in cases of acute bilious colic, obstructive jaundice, painful gallstones, and extremely toxic liver disorders



Sylmarin (425 mg) x 2 / Milk thistle provides hepatocellular protection by stabilizing hepatic cell membranes.

Green Tea Extract (300 mg) x 2 /
info:  http://tinyurl.com/ypdp9q

Coq10 (200 mg) x 1 / http://tinyurl.com/29em8c


Colon complete complex contains:
Fiber complex (2000 mg) x2
Lactobacillus F19 probiotic (14 mg) x 2
Lactospore prebiotic (20 mg) x2

I use Smartbomb.com as a source except for the Resveratrol.

I will go with Lactulose amd Lactobacillus GG when I use up what I have."

_________________

Many of the above supplements on HR's list are anti-fibrotic and anti-inflammatory. He makes clear that they should not be used while treating with INF.

Here are some other anti-fibrotic substances:

Berberine
http://www.labmeeting.com/paper/29186388/sun-2009-berberine-inhibits-hepatic-stellate-cell-proliferation-and-prevents-experimental-liver-fibrosis

Cathepsins B and D
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2670444

Glutathione
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=2670444

Genistein
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19033130

Cysteine
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WBK-48DXPV0-6&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=be7a7987fef1cbd889d61489976a97da

Epigallocatechin -3-gallate
http://www.jbc.org/content/278/26/23381.abstract

Adiponectin
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/117899922/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0

N-acetyl-cysteine

Best regards,

Mike H

[FlGuy]

I'm not so sure that what mhunall discusses is snake oil.  And, the point is just that "we don't know".  Personally, I don't care if people take LDN or LSD or if it's TCM or an ICBM.  There are some people who are in a tight spot, hcv-wise, that may need to exhaust all possibilities and investigate maybe life-lengthening avenues that may be out there even if they are 'out there'.  It's up to each person to review, study, investigate, decide, accept or reject what they read or hear and seek knowledgeable advice.  And, knowledgeable advice is not necessarily found in this forum.

Escalting voices and anger are never convincing arguments to me, but the guy has the right to throw that stuff out there even if you don't agree with him and his stuff.  

[mhudnall]

Yes, it did get heated this morning. That's why they deleted it. And since I don't want this one deleted, I won't make that mistake again.

I think it is best when the information gets out, even if you have to sift through the personal innuendos to find it. It's even better to actually have an intelligent discussion about it. To illustrate that point, please look over this post and review how many posts are about the topic, and how many are about me. I would love to stick to the topic. But that is very rarely allowed on this forum.

However, I do take issue with the remark about having something to sell. I don't remember ever telling anyone to buy from a certain vendor. In the link above, HR does; if you read my post I do not. I have said many times that I get my supplements from my doctor. That is another of the stock remarks that you guys always use: spammer, pyramid schemer, etc. If those accusations were true then you could easily guess what company I work for. Any takers?

Obviously, you are all in complete agreement that you are all very compassionate, kind, intelligent and objective people. Who am I to disagree? And so I wish you all the best.

Mike H

[copyman]

jd, just wanted to compliment you on how eloquent you are with your posts.  I would guess you have had some background in writing. You are very glib to say the least. keep up the good work

[smaug48]

Can we end the inflammatory remarks, sniping, and innuendo and stick to the subject of the thread, which is anti-fibrotic supplements?  Please?  It is tiresome to read.

I don't need anyone to act as a censor for me (including MedHelp!).

This is the Internet, folks.  Caveat emptor.

smaug

[mhudnall]

I think you missed the thread that was deleted this morning. There is a group here that attack all posts about supplements as "Snake Oil".  Also, "There is no scientific proof". But when you give you give them scientific proof, they then say its invalid, or not convincing, merely because they refuse to read it or they don't understand it.

They also accuse me of advocating not treating with INF. I have never said that or advocated that. But they attack my threads by inventing an argument that I never made and then attacking me for it. Their response to information on supplements also involve the claim that, "Nothing works for Hep c but INF." Obviously that is the only cure, but many of us cannot treat or choose not to. For those of us looking for options, the discussion is halted by these types of heated arguments.

So, what I am saying is, if you refuse to discuss the option of supplements and alternative strategies on their own merits, and you refuse to engage in the topic with an honest discussion, then please don't disrupt the conversations of those of us that want to. If the mere fact that someone is discussing things you have an emotional bias against, then maybe you should ignore the discussion.

Mike H

[jdwithhcv]

I've been reading your responses to those who question and/or disagree with your position, and it seems you want them to ignore your posts.  Interesting position to take.  Typically men of science welcome and encourage peer review, as it tends to lend credit to their assertions that they have been thoroughly discussed and debated by their peers.  Yet you will brook no discussions, and those of your peers who question you are deemed to be attackers.  This makes me curious.  Could you please explain why it is so wrong to question you, and why it is an attack to ask you to back your assertions with facts?

I realize not everyone can clear HCV with inf/riba, and it sounds like your treatment experience was awful.  I also realize that supplements and alternative medicine can have a legitimate place in the treatment rubric.  But you would sound a lot more credible if you could endure the idea that some people require a little more proof than "because I said so."

I'm just saying...

jd