LDN

[chuckles333]

Is anyone familiar with treatment using LDN? Is this stuff for real?

[Bill1028]

Mike, I never saw a study that showed fibrosis can be reversed with  hcv.  Do you have a link to a study?

Canary, there was a study a few months ago that suggested that a strong immune system may cause more damage to the liver than a weaker system.  As the strong immune system attacks the virus, the virus evades by mutating and replicating at a faster rate, Darwinism as its finest.  As a result there is more inflammation and the inflammation heals as fibrosis.

[mhudnall]

Fibrosis is associated with inflammation and damage due to oxidation; also lipid peroxidation. Unbound iron, steatosis (fatty liver), oxidative stress all contribute to the scenario. I suppose an immune system could be pounding the virus at the same time that massive inflammation is occurring. And I suppose that the immune system could be weak, but the inflammation could be in control at the same time. But in my case the above relationships hold true. Everyone is different. But I think generally people with low viral counts and low inflammation have the greatest chance at fibrinolytic activity.

I would guess also that people with high fibrosis and inflammation and low viral counts would benefit from antioxidant therapy as well as anti-inflammatory substances. Hep c does produce systemic inflammation. Brain fog is a result of inflammation in the brain (so is autism).

In short, there probably is no answer. It all depends on the individual situations.

Sometimes we just have to paddle our own canoes.

Mike h

[CanaryParker]

Thank you for explaining...but what I don't understand well at all is why those with very low viral loads continue to have severe progression of scarring.
And then some who's viral loads are off the charts and have minimal damage and stay that way?


Is the immune system fighting extra hard in the high viral load scenario?
The low viral loads with serious on going damage be due to a weak immune system so no matter the count the virus is attacking?

also. hcv affects and infects other organs..the body.
Sometimes it's not always the fibrosis that/cirrhosis that can kill, correct?

I am going to check out your protocol thoroughly.
So, thank again for your input, Mike.

[portann]

Hepatitis C (originally "non-A non-B hepatitis") was only proved conclusively in 1989, some twenty years ago. By then, I'd already had the disease for twenty years.

Is it any wonder that this is a work in progress?

That said, many people experience success with the current standard protocol. I hope I do.

Sadly or tragically, many don't.  

Individuals decide on evolving information and their personal situations as to how to proceed after failed treatment.

Some re-treat (like Andiamo who treated eight times), and are now SVR. Others will not or cannot go that route.

If I relapse, hmmm.............I will cross that path if I come to it.

I may be dead of heart disease by then, which scoops up and puts to rest about three thousand Americans every day.

[mhudnall]

I look at the labs generally this way:

Viral load is an indicator of the present strength of the immune system. It does not correlate with liver enzymes or degree of fibrosis. Liver enzymes measure present degree of inflammation. It doesn't correlate with the other tests either. Degree of fibrosis is the most important because it measure the degree of impairment of the liver. That is measured by biopsy and fibrosis is what matters; it's what kills you.

So all are important in their own way. LDN helps viral load because it strengthens the immune system. It also drastically reduces inflammation, thereby decreasing oxidative damage. Phophatidylcholine is fibrinolytic and that helps reverse the fibrosis. Human placenta stimulates the bodies levels of insulin-like growth factors (IGF-1) that help regenerate liver tissue. Fibrinolytic activity and tissue regeneration is possible due to the combined effect of this multi-pronged approach. For instance, fibrosis is known to be reversed in the absence of the virus, even without phosphatidylcholine, so the drastic reduction of the virus by LDN offers an opportunity to reverse fibrosis while the conditions are ripe.

Reversing fibrosis is the key. That takes you backwards down the time-line of your liver life. Reversing fibrosis is possible due to the suppressive effect of the virus by the LDN-activated  immune system response. The absence of inflammation also is key to help heal the liver tissue.

We live with all kinds of viruses throughout our whole lives. I believe that mine can be managed, I believe that I will have many future years with excellent quality of life. For me that is the key - quality of life. Good health defines quality of life for me. That's why elimination of the virus is not totally important to me.

And yes, I might stay on LDN for the rest of my life. That would be fine with me.

Nice to talk to you all!

Mike H

[CanaryParker]

The last line in my posting was for all.
as you can see, there is no 'To' listed.
We are basically saying the same thing in your recent post.
So the time out...no reason for that.

My liver histology is advanced also. I am one who's liver became worse from doing the tx...that's me. It was literally killing me.
And a slow responder....made it down to 300 at 6 months.
I had every side and then some. I cannot even recall most of that experience as well.
Lost my mind. Am finally recovering some of that. Memory and some other things are still not like it was though...I was sharp. Not bragging...it's just a wonder at what has been lost.
So...i wish that there was some chance of getting that svr and hopefully feel much better after doing some sort of tx. I can't. Not with the standard tx involved.
Even if I wanted to.
I am and have to be grateful for still being able to be somewhat ok after that horrible experience and the years of suffering.
And  as i said..in another way...as you...people do need to make educated decisions and be an advocate for self. Can't only go by what docs say either.
if so, I should have been dead a few years back......and I would have just dealt with 'flu like symptoms throughout tx...ha.
There is so much more info these days and more to come....hopefully.
We all need to tell our side of the story, for others' sake and also so that the medical community will really start to hear us.
I was not attacking you or being demeaning towards you, Trinity.