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Avatar universal

Post Treatment nutrition plus supplements:

Below was posted by a Dr on another forum.
I thought I would cross poste here as what she is saying backs up and supports what HR says.
And its also what I am doing. More or Less.


Post Treatment nutrition plus supplements:

Treatment leaves most folks nutritional depleted with high oxidative stress. Glutathione, Vitamins A, C, E and selenium are all depleted. The treatment induces a pro-inflammatory state, and shifting back to an anti-inflammatory state is, in my opinion, of value, along with anti-fibrotic measures for the liver. Many of these items will accelerate brain recovery, one of the organs most profoundly affected by interferon. Exercise is much more important than most folks realize for overall recovery from the treatment toxicities (brain, endocrine, immune, bones, muscles), just don't overdo it.

Pay attention to core dietary principles (this is more important than the supps):
Plentiful colourful veggies and fruits
Limited sugar, limited processed grains, prefer unprocessed whole grains (lower glycemic load, more nutrients)
Minimize unhealthy fats, choose healthier fats like olive oil, coconut oil, avocado oil
Adequate but not excessive good quality protein (plant-based or animal-based)

Vitamin D should be optimized via blood testing, correct w careful sun exposure and/or supplemental Vitamin D3

n-3 fats (formerly called omega-3 fats) 1-2 grams of EPA + DHA (or all DHA) daily

Core vitamins and minerals:
(finding a decent multivitamin can be a huge challenge, there is a lot of garbage out there)
Vitamin A -- as mixed carotenoids (can get from diet if you are motivated) 25,000 u/day for a few months
keep preformed Vitamin A to less than 3000 IU per day from supplement
B vitamins -- either from multivitamin or extra B complex
Vitamin C -- from diet + supplement w buffered form: ascorbate (calcium or magnesium) 1- 2 g/day, split dosing, preferably between meals
Vitamin E -- from diet + supplement 400 - 800 U/day as mixed natural with high gamma-tocopherol fraction
selenium 200 mcg preferably as selenomethionine but dietary sources are ideal (brazil nuts)
zinc 15 mg/day
Magnesium 400 - 600 mg/day, as citrate or malate

Other things of great value for a number of reasons:
N acetyl cysteine
alpha lipoic acid
CoQ10
Acetyl L-carnitine
SAMe (always with B vitamins), +/- TMG (caution in bipolar disorder)
whey protein
Curcumin
Resveratrol
Green Tea (freshly brewed, or extract)
Fermented foods, or probiotic

Low serotonin levels are common, but addressing that needs to be individualized.
Other neurotransmitters are also often affected due to the prolonged activation of the HPA axis, but again this is variable.
18 Responses
Avatar universal
Thank you, CS. I can see you're eager to be post-tx already!

If you have a minute, could you also post a reference for the doctor who wrote this?

I like that she says: "Pay attention to core dietary principles (this is more important than the supps.."

I'm puzzled by her recommendation of coconut oil. I know this is a controversial topic, even on this board, but here are some contrary views:

"Keep your daily intake of saturated fat to no more than 10 percent of your total calories by limiting use of meat, butter, cheese, whole milk, cream and eggs in your diet, along with foods made from lard, solid shortenings, and palm and coconut oils."

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dash-di...

Avoid "Coconut, palm and palm-kernel oils"

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/heart-h...

"SATURATED FATS

These are the biggest dietary cause of high LDL levels ("bad cholesterol"). When looking at a food label, pay very close attention to the percentage of saturated fat and avoid or limit any foods that are high. Saturated fat should be limited to 10% of calories. Saturated fats are found in animal products such as butter, cheese, whole milk, ice cream, cream, and fatty meats. They are also found in some vegetable oils -- coconut, palm, and palm kernel oils. (Note: Most other vegetable oils contain unsaturated fat and are healthy.)"

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/...

"Avoid foods with excess fat in them such as meat (especially liver and fatty meat), egg yolks, whole milk, cream, butter, shortening, lard, pastries, cakes, cookies, gravy, peanut butter, chocolate, olives, potato chips, coconut, cheese (other than cottage cheese), coconut oil, palm oil, and fried foods."

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/drugi...

Avatar universal
There is a bit of conflicting information about Coconut Oil.

coconut oil is mostly made up of medium chain fatty acids (MCFAs).

Why does that matter? Well, MCFAs are more easily digested, and absorbed in the body than other fats, and for this reason they are actually often used in enteral feeding formula for critically ill patients.

http://www.kombuchahealth.com.au/coconut_oil.html
http://www.coconutresearchcenter.org/article10612.htm

CS
479244 tn?1271567259
a whey protein question..

drink one or two protein drinks per day to supplement my protein.

I noticed yesterday that one of the ingredients is creatine and somewhere in the back of my mind I think I remember reading that creatine was potentially harmful to the kidneys?

I am concerned as my father had renal kidney disease.

thanks for any input!
bandman
Avatar universal
Too much creatine can be harmful to the kidneys but I don't know what "too much" is.  If no one on here has an answer for you, a Google search will probably tell you the safe amounts.  

Two of my adult sons love to lift weights and they use protein powder, creatine, etc. and one of them has had elevated BUN (which is the creatine measure) in his blood tests.  I try to tell him that he's most likely taking too much of the supplements but he chooses not to listen to me.  I wish his doc would take a harsher stand on this.
479244 tn?1271567259
Also  you mentioned oxidizing stress.
Is there a test for this condition and what sups address this?

bandman
Avatar universal
No test that is readily available that i am aware of.
It can be done though, at least in a LAB.

The supp list above will help with OS.
But NAC, ALA, Taurine, CoQ10, SAMe and TMG are the main ones.

CS
479244 tn?1271567259
thanks cs!  

I am taking all or those except the taurine... guess I better get down to the whole foods store.
bandman
479244 tn?1271567259
thanks meakea,

I will research.

I think you can buy it without creatine..  

bandman
479244 tn?1271567259
thanks meakea,

I will research.

I think you can buy it without creatine..  

bandman
233616 tn?1312790796
hey, want a little known factoid regarding coconut oil: Coconut oil craving is actually a symptom of hypothyroidism. Thyroid patients list coconut ptoducts as their number one craving.  This puzzled me so I did a little more research.

It turns out that the ability to make TSH and the other thyroid hormones is predicated on having enough of just one tiny molecule on the omega acid chain, and the 2 things ignest in this on eartj, are palm and coconut oil.  Well palm oil isn't very tasty...so the mind tells the body to seek out the next best thing.

the question is...how does the body know exactly which fatty acid it is deficient in, and to seek it out.  Perhaps it is as the Bible suggests...."We are fearfully and wondefully made".  We know things we don't even know we know, that can preserve our health.

Experiments were done on goats at the department of agriculture.
One by one an osolated mineral was withdrawn from their diet.
Then the animals were given rich pastures with trees shrubs and orchards to browse in.
In each case where a mineral deficiency was creatd, the goats would seek out and gorge on the plant , tree or bark that was highest in that particular mineral.
Again the question became, how does the goat know it is low on magnesium and which plant contains the most?   Evidence perhaps of a designer who wrote that billion lines of digital code in each streand of DNA??

mb
626749 tn?1256519302
CS
Thanks for the nutritional info, might have to try it. As of now just trying to clear myself from all the tx drugs, and have not taken anything else since eot. I just eat a very well balanced diet, the gym, and running again...finally.
=======================

Bandman,
Unfortunately I developed decreased renal function towards the end of tx.

So I have done some limited research on renal funtions.
Don't confuse creatine and creatinine

Creatine is used by muscles when they work.
Muscles then use it, and change it to creatinine.
Then the kidneys need to clean the creatinine from the blood.

Renal function tests are usually based on how fast the kidneys can expel the creatinine from the blood.
This test is called GFR or eGFR.

apache

96938 tn?1189803458
Or....May be the goat found and ate a copy of  the Oxford Textbook of Endocrinology and Diabetes and ingested all the knowledge therein.  And, rather than relying on with wisdom of Psalms the goats turned to Luke and read 'physician heal thyself'.
412873 tn?1329178055
CS--Thanks so much for posting this.  As I get closer to EOT, I have been looking for direction on diet and supplements to help ease my body back to normalcy. Especially the brain function as the fog is getting thick these days.

MB--A test question on my last quiz in anatomy dealt directly with that question.  Correct answer was that the function of taste is dictated by body needs.  Isn't it amazing how well built we truly are =)
479244 tn?1271567259
Apache,
thanks,

thats exactly what I did... I confused the 2.  duh.

hows the belly?
Mine is going away again... I think it is the protein drink.  Too much of a coincedence.

bandman

Avatar universal
I get cravings for protein - I would eat other things but would not be satisfied, even if it was a decent meal.  Then I'd give up and eat a burger or something like that and I'd be good.  I read an article at one point that said exactly what you said - that your body craves what it needs so when you're hungry for something in particular, you need to eat that thing because your body will simply keep craving what it needs.  Soooooo....when I crave a cheeseburger...I eat one. ;->  (Well, when I crave a cheeseburger, I eat protein is more like it.  :)
479244 tn?1271567259
watch the brazil nuts, i was wayyyy over doing them, caue I love 'em!
I was having severe stomach cramping, and felt like ****....upon further investigation ....

>\"Overdose:  Eating too many of the nuts over a long period of time may cause an overdose of selenium. Early signs of selinium overdose include a garlicy smell on the breath, poor apetite, white spots on the skin or nails and sour taste in the mouth. If left untreated, further symptoms will occur, including hair loss, tooth decay, brittle nails, loss of feeling in the hands and feet, and discoloration of the skin. If you notice these symptoms, limit your intake of Brazil nuts. If the symptoms are severe, see your doctor.
A half-dozen nuts have more than 500 micrograms of this mineral, above the tolerable daily limit of approximately 400 micrograms.

(no sources listed - feel free to google brazil nut overdose)

ouch!
bandman
541844 tn?1244313424
Thanks Cocksparrow.  I've filed this away for next year.  Just hope my brain recalls where I put it.
Avatar universal
well said
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