SOCIALIZED MEDICINE, will it help or hurt research

[merryBe]

weigh in if you want to!!  I think we'd set the clock back 50 years, but that's just me.

[beamishboy]

God forbid we provide equal care to all in america-just like every other first world nation!..much, if not most research is done at our universitys-tax exempt and recipients of major tax dollars..Profit from caring for the sick has made our system the most expensive in the world and yet far from the best-esp. for the poor&middle class.....The AMA favors single payer,a majority of americans favor single payer...but unfortunately the insurance industry has spent half a billion dollars lobbying against any major reforms in our present and HIGHLY profitable system...gee, i wonder why?  

[gauf]

bad idea i think. Still the best in the world. The cost problem can be solved by imprisoning lawyers!

[frijole]

I have 2 uninsured grandchildren - one has asthma.  Our illustrious leader thinks that is just fine.  My ex daughter in law falls in the crack -- too much income for medicaid and Schips and not enough income to put them on her employer's plan.    I have a 27 yo uninsured son who just went to the ER.  I guess the county will eat that $500+ bill.

As an employer who pays insurance for our small firm, I know it adds $3.92 per hour per employee to our labor cost.  That hurts.  We would not change the coverage - my hep C treatment cost $85,000 (my cost was $5,000) and my partner had breast cancer.  But still, something has to be done.

The medicare program is, in fact, a socialized medical program for senior citizens.  It works okay, but could be better.  The medicare part D - prescription coverage - is a bust.  Good for the citizen but the government has no negotiation powers with the drug companies and therefore pays way too much.  It needs to be changed.

Yes, I think we need some kind of reform so we can all be covered.  Healthy people will make a better country and socialized medicine is worth a try
frijole

[mikesimon]

This type of post definitely belongs on the other side - the Community Side. There isn't any question about that. This just clutters up an already cluttered up medical/research side of medhelp.

This forum is for questions about medical issues and research aspects of Hepatitis such as, questions about being newly diagnosed, questions about current treatments, information and participation in discussions about research studies and clinical trials related to Hepatitis. If you would like to communicate with other people who have been touched by Hepatitis, please visit our new Hepatitis Community/Living with Hepatitis forum.

[mremeet]

It's a complicated issue with many ins and outs. And there are many significant flaws with our current (US) heathcare system, there's definitely room for improvement. But overall socialized healthcare will reduce the ultimate level of care available to nearly all low and middle income people. It will also result in a huge hike in taxation, both on individuals and on corporations. This will further remove ordinary people's ability to use their own discretion (by choosing where to spend *their* money) in deciding where they go for healthcare and what type of healthcare they'll be able to access. And of course the politicians and hollywood celebrities who so vigorously tout these policies for "the little people" will in no way shape or form participate in (nor be subjected to) socialized healthcare at all. You won't see them waiting in line at the local clinic, you wont see them waiting for rationed CAT scans, and you won't see them struggling with mediocre government doctors who aren't good enough to have a private practice with private clientele. They'll all have the very best private doctors and priority lab/diagnostic services for both themselves and their loved ones at all times. And as far as research, heavy corporate taxation (pharmaceutical co's are corporations) will subdue research in this area and it will retard innovation (like what is seen with Telaprevir and SCH503034 for instance). That's why these drugs (and many other similar cutting edge drugs) have originated from the US (and its capitalistic system) and not from countries who have widely adopted socialism. Overall it would not be a good thing at all.

[mremeet]

Oops you're right mike, I forgot where we were here. Sorry 'bout that.

[beamishboy]

didn't start this thread 'here' ,but,this is a 'medical issue' and well worth discussion...just did a little reading in nytimes article by paul krugman-annual premiums to medical insurance industry-$776,000,000
friole-i also employed and thru union-my costs were staggering with bluecross/blueshield and not one employee was covered until they had 1,000 hrs per yr-plus comp insurance another Crazy cost system...we are becoming a less competitive nation with these sky-rocketing prices..look at recent gm and uaw negotiations-All about med insurance-

[gauf]

Was working on an opinion, after reading yours I dumped it cause you said it best. I wholeheartedly concur. Like mind again dude.

[PSP-n-Me]

here in Canada we have Universal Healthcare - No one goes without health care - The waits may be a bit longer than the States, but no preferential treatment is given based on what kind of coverage you have, what name, race, or social status - Everyone is equal...I thank God I am tx here in Canada compared to the States - I have heard so many horror stories about how HCV patients are treated and the astronomical costs involved - The ONLY thing I have to pay for is a 10% co pay on my meds, everything else is covered - Doctor visits, Labs, Medical tests and Procedures - And I have top notch care - My Doctor is a world wide known and well respected researcher of the liver and it's diseases, and she has a NP that is outstanding - I have seen both sides of the border when it comes to healthcare - When I lived in the States (10 years ago) the healthcare was top notch, state of the art - Not anymore!  Thank you Mr. Bush! (I refuse to call him President, he is not nor has ever been Presidential material)

Kathy - I feel for your grand babies .. It just isn't fare that every American citizen doesn't enjoy the benefits of the Healthcare System there.

[mikesimon]

I didn't suggest that it wasn't "well worth discussion". Maybe I should post about an ingrown toenail - I mean it is a medical issue and "well worth discussion" if you happen to be suffering form that malady. BUT - IT DOESN'T BELONG HERE - that is the point.
For your edification one last time:

"This forum is for questions about medical issues and research aspects of Hepatitis such as, questions about being newly diagnosed, questions about current treatments, information and participation in discussions about research studies and clinical trials related to Hepatitis"

[gauf]

Who pays for all that free healthcare? Do they tax the rich, or the middle /lower class? just wondering how it can be free, i mean someone must be paying for it.

[jmjm530]

I see pro's and con's -- and def some fixin' is needed -- but the bottom line for me is quality of care. This article is similar to what I've heard from some doctor friends.

http://www.memag.com/memag/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=133883
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are the best and brightest going into medicine?

"When the Medical Economics Continuing Survey asked physicians earlier this year, "Do you think the brightest young people are going into medicine today?" 72 percent said, firmly, No!...The litany of reasons is familiar to anyone practicing medicine today: Too much government red tape . . . and not enough reimbursement. An uphill battle to repay medical education debt . . . and a downhill slide into liability hell.
-------------------

The question then is, will a move toward socialized medicine help or hurt this apparent trend?

And to be fair, the article also asks "do the brightest necessarily make the best doctors? And that's a legitimate question, however there is no guarantee that a potential new crop of "less bright" doctors will be any more caring than the ones we have, for better or worse.

-- Jim

[gauf]

Well, i agree it needs tweaking, but when has the Government ever done a good job running anything. Schools? i don't think so. Mail? I don't think so. etc. I think entitlements like this is just a way for politicians to aquire power, and create more dependence on the government. Let the free market rule I say.

[PSP-n-Me]

I noticed a very good friend of mine TexMikel has joined our  Community - Maybe you should read his profile and then ask him or his wife how the "quality of care" was for him when he was dying in the hospital due to ESLD with a MELD of 38 and they told his wife there was NOTHING they could do for him - If it weren't for his wife he would of died - she was like a dog with a bone and didn't stop until he got listed top of the line on the TP list and thankfully got a "perfect new liver" (god bless the donar family) ...You claim to have excellent medial coverage - well no wonder you view the US Healthcare as "quality" - Those that got the bucks get the best..But those that got the bucks are very far and few between these days, thanks to Mr Bush - Or how bout Kathy's grand babies - they have NO coverage - God forbid what if one of those children need emergency surgery - what then?  In the States you get what you pay for - So does that mean the "quality care" does not apply to America's youth????   And what about Charms - who is still waiting for approval to go on tx - becasue of Insurance red tape - shouldn't she have the same "quality" you have?  Here in Canada we loose almost 3/4 of our brand new out of school Doctor's to the States due to the "brain drain"  They can make as much money as they want if the work in the States - Here in Canada their income is capped...So you see, much of your "quality" comes from Canada in the first place...

I agree with you that there is "some fixin needed" but when you look at the whole picture greed makes up a big part of it..

[jmjm530]

But have you noticed that nothing seems to be run very well anymore :)  It used to be just the gov't, now even going to a dept store seems like going to the DMV. LOL.

That said, there is one area I'd like to see the gov't step into and that is medical research. Right now, the lion share of all trials are being run by the drug companies with obvious conflicts. There is no incentive for them to plow money into generic cures -- be it existing drugs, herbs, whatever -- because there just wouldn't be a profit.

Comments on that?

-- Jim

[gauf]

Again, Sounds like higher taxes. I am taxed out. Maybe I'll just give it up and go on the government dole, too. Seems to be working out for France.

[jmjm530]

No, I don't view the U.S. healthcare system as "Quality" and your friend's story is all too common here. I've experienced it myself with friends and families. If you don't have an advocate when in the hospital, in many cases you're just toast.

The question really is will socialized medicine make it better or worse, and that is a complex issue. As to the Canadian system, I've seen some very positive posts here, and some very negative ones. In fact, you posted some very negative posts a couple of years ago, but I'm happy that now you apparently are receiving excellent care.

But may I ask why you're posting this to me after our discussion yesterday? Others have made my same points in a more articulate way -- Mre for example.

I'm more than happy to have exchanges with you if they are civil and non-personal in nature, but I thought both of us decided yesterday to avoid each other for awhile? There are ways you could have made the same points with addressing them to me.
Unless, of course, you want to try to have some civil discourse like we used to in the past. Your choice, but I really don't want to go back to what was going on yesterday.

-- Jim

[gauf]

Oh boy, here we go....

[jmjm530]

I hear you on the taxes but maybe the upside might be less expensive and more effective drugs. Just a dream :)

[PSP-n-Me]

the reason I posted to you is because you keep using the word "quality" when discussing the US Healthcare - you have nothing to compare it to - You have "quality" care becasue you pay for it - and you are the one that dishonored our agreement by posting that alcohol nonsense 10 minutes after we agreed, so what's good for the goose???  at least I was not directly insulting you - was just giving my input on this discussion and posted to your attention in a civil manner - You do not have the monopoly on discussions in here - I thought it was for all members...

[jmjm530]

I wasn't aware that our agreement meant I couldn't post either about alcohol or make a joke to lighten up the thread, as was my intent. The agreement was to stay out of each other's faces, including not posting to each other. Again, others have made the same points I did, and you could have posted to them, or just made your point without posting to anyone. This is getting a bit tired to me as I'm sure it is to the group. Maybe someone else has a suggestion, cause I'm out of them and out of this discussion.

[PSP-n-Me]

if your that "sensitive" I will not use your name in my posts anymore - but no way will I stop posting just cause you can't deal with opinions other than yours - isn't that called arrogant?

[gauf]

found this from you in my message box:  "if you keep deliberatly antagonising me I will report you to MH"...    ?????  Did I miss something???  When did i antagonize you?

[PSP-n-Me]

read your posts if you're able to