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29837 tn?1414538248

Supplements Recomendations

According to Life Extension Foundation...

The following supplements have been shown to reduce liver oxidative damage, lower iron, and boost the effectiveness of conventional drugs:

Calcium citrate—1000 to 2000 milligrams (mg) daily with iron-containing foods to block iron absorption
Lactoferrin—900 mg daily, to block iron, in divided doses
Lipoic acid—750 mg in three divided doses daily
NAC—600 mg daily
Whey protein isolate—20 to 40 grams (g) daily
Glutathione—500 mg daily, on an empty stomach
Silibinin extract—900 mg daily, in two divided doses
SAMe—1200 mg daily, in three divided doses
PPC—1800 to 3600 mg daily
Green tea extract (93 percent polyphenols)—750 mg daily
Garlic (high allicin)—900 mg daily
Aged garlic extract (Kyolic®)—1200 mg daily
Selenium—200 to 600 micrograms (mcg) daily
Vitamin E—400 international units (IU) daily with at least 200 mg gamma tocopherol
Vitamin C—2000 mg daily (on an empty stomach to minimize the increased iron absorption caused by vitamin C)

Hepatitis C Safety Caveats

An aggressive program of dietary supplementation should not be launched without the supervision of a qualified physician. Several of the nutrients suggested in this protocol may have adverse effects. These include:

Calcium

Do not take calcium if you have hypercalcemia.
Do not take calcium if you form calcium-containing kidney stones.
Ingesting calcium without food can increase the risk of kidney stones in women and possibly men.
Calcium can cause gastrointestinal symptoms such as constipation, bloating, gas, and flatulence.
Large doses of calcium carbonate (12 grams or more daily or 5 grams or more of elemental calcium daily) can cause milk-alkali syndrome, nephrocalcinosis, or renal insufficiency.
Garlic

Garlic has blood-thinning, anticlotting properties.
Discontinue using garlic before any surgical procedure.
Garlic can cause headache, muscle pain, fatigue, vertigo, watery eyes, asthma, and gastrointestinal symptoms such as nausea and diarrhea.
Ingesting large amounts of garlic can cause bad breath and body odor.
Green Tea

Consult your doctor before taking green tea extract if you take aspirin or warfarin (Coumadin). Taking green tea extract and aspirin or warfarin can increase the risk of bleeding.
Discontinue using green tea extract 2 weeks before any surgical procedure. Green tea extract may decrease platelet aggregation.
Green tea extract contains caffeine, which may produce a variety of symptoms including restlessness, nausea, headache, muscle tension, sleep disturbances, and rapid heartbeat.
Lipoic Acid

Consult your doctor before taking lipoic acid if you have diabetes and glucose intolerance. Monitor your blood glucose level frequently. Lipoic acid may lower blood glucose levels.
NAC

NAC clearance is reduced in people who have chronic liver disease.
Do not take NAC if you have a history of kidney stones (particularly cystine stones).
NAC can produce a false-positive result in the nitroprusside test for ketone bodies used to detect diabetes.
Consult your doctor before taking NAC if you have a history of peptic ulcer disease. Mucolytic agents may disrupt the gastric mucosal barrier.
NAC can cause headache (especially when used along with nitrates) and gastrointestinal symptoms such as nausea and diarrhea.
Milk Thistle

Consult your doctor before taking milk thistle with tranquilizers such as Haldol, Serentil, Stelazine, and Thorazine. Milk thistle combats the effect of tranquilizers.
Do not combine milk thistle with the blood pressure medication Regitine. Milk thistle combats the effect of Regitine.
Phosphatidylcholine

Phosphatidylcholine can cause increased salivation, a metallic taste, headache, drowsiness, and gastrointestinal symptoms such as nausea and diarrhea.
SAMe

Consult your doctor before taking SAMe if you have bipolar disorder. See your doctor frequently if you take SAMe and you have bipolar disorder.
Consult your doctor before taking SAMe if you take antidepressants. See your doctor frequently if you take SAMe in place of or in addition to antidepressants.
Consult your doctor before taking SAMe if you have cancer. Nucleic acid methylation patterns may change in people who have cancer and take SAMe.
Do not take SAMe if you are undergoing gene therapy.
SAMe can cause anxiety, hyperactive muscle movement, insomnia, hypomania, and gastrointestinal symptoms such as nausea and diarrhea.
Selenium

High doses of selenium (1000 micrograms or more daily) for prolonged periods may cause adverse reactions.
High doses of selenium taken for prolonged periods may cause chronic selenium poisoning. Symptoms include loss of hair and nails or brittle hair and nails.
Selenium can cause rash, breath that smells like garlic, fatigue, irritability, and nausea and vomiting.
Vitamin C

Do not take vitamin C if you have a history of kidney stones or of kidney insufficiency (defined as having a serum creatine level greater than 2 milligrams per deciliter and/or a creatinine clearance less than 30 milliliters per minute.
Consult your doctor before taking large amounts of vitamin C if you have hemochromatosis, thalassemia, sideroblastic anemia, sickle cell anemia, or erythrocyte glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD) deficiency. You can experience iron overload if you have one of these conditions and use large amounts of vitamin C.
Vitamin E

Consult your doctor before taking vitamin E if you take warfarin (Coumadin).
Consult your doctor before taking high doses of vitamin E if you have a vitamin K deficiency or a history of liver failure.
Consult your doctor before taking vitamin E if you have a history of any bleeding disorder such as peptic ulcers, hemorrhagic stroke, or hemophilia.
Discontinue using vitamin E 1 month before any surgical procedure.
37 Responses
476246 tn?1418874514
Thanks for posting this.

Marcia
Avatar universal
While I take most of what in the Life Extention Protocol and most have been recommended by HR as part of an Anti Fibrotic regime, I would think very carefully before undertaking this.

Make sure you know why you are taking it and what you expect to achieve by taking any Supp.

Dont just blindly follow it.
CS
29837 tn?1414538248
Interesting to find out today that the Milk Thistle (Rexall brand) does NOT contain Selenium. However, Rexall does make a 200mcg Selenium product. the Product number is 3212 for those interested, and they said Wal-Mart does carry it...

Magnum
476246 tn?1418874514
Very wise, thanks for pointing it out!

I have decided to take some of those supplements. I have them all lined up and will start taking them after my biopsy. I decided to take lower doses. I must say that I don't suffer from any other ailments than hep c, so it is easier for me to to take the decisions.

Marcia
Avatar universal
Do you mean you would be wary of taking them while treating, or you would be wary in general?   My husband took most of them before treating and he improved a lot.  Now that he's treating again, (3rd try) he started out taking most of the same supplements as Gauf but he has been too sick to swallow extra pills so is just taking Pegasys/Riba?alinia now.  I will try adding back the lactobacillus GG, PPC, and vitamin E at least as he feels better.  He started Compazine for nausea yesterday so maybe I can sneak a few back in.  If I try today he will probably throw them at me.:>)
Ev
Avatar universal
Thank you for your thoughtfull and informative post !

I'm wondering if you or anyone here has had any experience using Colloidal Silver . I have used this for years for many things because since I have no spleen my immune system is already low.

Thanks,

moon

Avatar universal
No not be wary so much as understand what each supp is supposed to do.
And a little scepticism doewsnt go astray.
Why is calcium in the list, to chelate iron does it?
Same for Whey what does it do.

I also take most of them but I take each for a reason.

I know what Gauf has been doing, and I too will more than likely take at least some supps on Tx, maybe not as many as Gauf we will just have to see on that though.

The is quite a lot out there on many of these supps ALA NAC SAMe to name a few. I think it would be wise if more than just Life Extentions word was taken into account. Some of these supps aint that cheap after all.

All the Best
CS
475300 tn?1312426726
The selenium part makes sense to me as south western Pa is totally lacking in selenium in the ground.  Might be like that everywhere. not sure.  I can mainly relate most supps with my animals.  I know animals (horses & dogs) are not humans but the research gives the end result.  For my horses I use a selenium (salt) block because they are not getting any from the pasture grass & hay we baled 2 weeks ago.  So if one thinks about it, the veggies grown around here are also lacking.  Makes sense to me but correct me if I am wrong.  

Denise
Avatar universal
I totoally agree with you.  I have spent many hours of digging and redigging to decide what to use and when.  With Joe having cirrhosis I am aware that the wrong thing could have grave consequences.  The Life Extension list implies that all of these can help while receiving conventional treatment and I don't see how they could know that.  HR certainly wouldn't make such a definitive statement.  It has been very nerve wracking to make these decisions for Joe.  He is a very smart guy but he has left all of this to me.  He never wanted to read any of it but would do his best to swallow whatever I gave him. No doubt, a person could do more harm than good if taking things indiscriminatly not to mention the variance in how the individual responds to whatever. I have let a lot of other things go while spending so much of my time researching this stuff but what will I care if my house is cluttered and needs paint if I lose my wonderful husband.
Ev
29837 tn?1414538248
Can't you present this list to his doctor and let him cross off what he feels he should NOT take? Just a thought...

Magnum
Avatar universal
I've not found them to be the least bit interested so I quit trying that.  We are now at a teaching hospital and they know there stuff as far as conventional treatment goes and have even been willing to push the envelope a bit for Joe since it is his third attempt and he has cirrhosis.  But they don't seem very interested in discussing supplements. Neither was the first Gastro we had.   The PA did agree that Sam-E shows merit. She sort of rolls her eyes at milk thistle though.   She works under Dr. Bacon who is a very good Hep c Doc and I am very satisfied with there handling of the tx but we walk alone with supplements.
Thanks for the suggestion though.  I have followed your posts for a long time and remember the infamous Infergen scare.  I wish you the very best on your next try.  I will be watching and praying for your success.
Blessings,
Ev
419309 tn?1326506891
Magnum:  thanks for the post and info!

"But they don't seem very interested in discussing supplements..." -Ev
-----------------------
How very true, for me as well.  My husband has several docs (also at a teaching hospital), and I've asked a half a dozen of them about milk thistle, SST -- like yourself, Evangelin, I'm willing to push the envelop too, as my husband also has cirrhosis -- and none of the docs have anything to say.  It almost seems like its taboo to have an opinion on supplements. (I guess if it's the drug companies keeping you in business, it could be "conflict of interest"? :P lol)  

I've gotten more information from this forum about supplements than I have been able to get from all of the docs I've talked to combined... (with many thanks to Evangelin, and Cocksparrow, and Gauf, and Magnum, and all those who are willing to go outside the box.)

~eureka

565687 tn?1216512112
Dont be afraid to experiment- everyone has different chemistry and the best way to find out what is working is to give it a few mos (some herbs/Vit/minerals need to get into your syst) and see what the blood tests show.  I talked w/my dr and he is so-so on the supplmts but I discussed trying different ones and told him i was taking one for a few wks then go on to the next (to make sure of any reactions etc) and he said that was an excellent approach. i take a daily dose of multi vit,, ginkgo bilboa (1 x per day) & calcium, milk thistle (2 x's per day).  will go on to evening primrose, zinc, licorice root, ginger,   Keep in mind that your liver is the main storage organ for all fat soluble vitamins!  An important goal is to make your liver work less- not more and to allow it to rejuvenate as intended. Herbs have been used for thousands of yrs - don't rule them out.  My professor (Dr) in Germany encouraged the milk thistle and he was top in the field.  It will not rid the body of the "C" but it will aid in liver function.  Stay positive and laugh!
565061 tn?1314244691
wen i qwuit the larg hand full off pills and vitamins down to the least amount to work, working with a docter to double check,,, I realy felt better and stronger I work hard to keap it simple on my body  And brake it up threw the day  my mix works for me pritty well   3-tbs whey proetean  +1-tbs flax  +1-tbs lesathin +2-tbs neutritanal yeast + 2-tbs weat germ   + 3/4-ts  bee polan+royal jelly  1-tbs vitaminaral green  good stuff ....    pills fish oil   calciom citrate with d,k,magnesium and zink    and generic sentram silver    my mel score was 19 now its 9  most important exersize  to get oxagen into blood  !!!!!!   hepc 1b stage 4  this is not a cure  its old jack lalain style living?
427265 tn?1444080036
Magnum and CockSparrow made good points in stating that this supp regimen is not to be undertaken lightly.

I started HR's anti-fibrotic regimen a month ago tomorrow, but have made a couple adjustments since then. I started out OK, then went thru a week of feeling punk. I thought it would pass, I thought it was perhaps cos it was working (hard), but I then took a breather from all but my prior supps. I then added them back one at a time, at half dosage for me, to give my body a chance to adapt to them more slowly.

I seem to be tolerating them well at this point and doing good...even (fingers crossed) have days when I pause and realize that I haven't felt this good in ages. Now and again, I look into the mirror and notice that the whites of my eyes are..well, white...and sparkling!

A piece of advice I received is that the NAC, TMG, Taurine and Vit. C should be taken on an empty stomach for best absorption. Has anyone else heard this? The rest are best taken with a meal. I have NOT added the SAM-e yet as the health food store owner said that I'd be throwing my money away as it is poorly absorbed thru supps. ?? Yet I read it has many benefits for liver disorders, especially for itching from bile buildup...and the itching I do have from time to time. I have to think on that one a bit more.......

How are the rest of you that are on these supps feeling physically. Do you notice any difference?
568322 tn?1370169040
Did you notice that the labels on those products don't say they're standarized?

And the ingredient list for PPC says it contains ETHANOL.
29837 tn?1414538248
I'm just the messenger. Everyone has to decide for themselves. Caveat Emptor....

Magnum
144210 tn?1273092382
I have been on the regimen since last Nov. I sure do notice a difference!  I started feeling better and better as the weeks passed.  Been on 3rd tox for 10 weeks now and sx this time around are almost non existant. I am just astounded how well I am tolerating this tox thus far. (The last 2 were brutal). No hair loss, no redness at injection site, no itching, much less fatigued, and mentally and emotionally sound. (1600 Riba and double dosed the peg for the first month or so!) The only explanation has got to be the supps.

"Houston, all systems functioning normally and we continue to hold orbit..."

"Copy that 13... We are working on your reentry procedures....."
144210 tn?1273092382
Just to be clear though, I know of at least 1 other person currently on tox with the supps who is not doing near as well with the sx. I may just be very lucky this go round.

Also, NAC should always be taken with meals, and should be avoided if you have active stomach ulcers.
427265 tn?1444080036
Thanks for your update and the heads up on the NAC. It's great to hear that this third tx is going so much better for you after the brutal ones. Hoping it stays that way for you and best of all, ends with SVR. Keeping my fingers crossed for ya!
479244 tn?1271567259
watch the vitamin E.

studies have shown that vitamin E encourages hep c virus replication.

http://aac.asm.org/cgi/content/abstract/51/6/2016

I quit it as soon as I found out.

I was even taking a liver suppliment pill that contained vitamin E!

hard to totally avoid though.  Just don't suppliment it.  Check your multivitamin and get one with the lowest level of vitamin E.

bandman
Avatar universal
And the ingredient list for PPC says it contains ETHANOL
------------------------------------
I did notice that. It also contains anti-freeze.

Still take it though.
CS
29837 tn?1414538248
Well, at least you'll run cheaper and you won't freeze up in the Winter...

Magnum
476246 tn?1418874514
Thank you for posting this study. Highly interesting. I had just gone out and bought Vit E to start taking a few days after my biopsy and use through treatment. It is a good antioxydant, but if it really helps keep these little buggers to replicate, so maybe I should rather stay away from it. How about the others? They mention the same in regard to
A, C, E, and K.


476246 tn?1418874514
ROFL
476246 tn?1418874514
I feel a little duh... on this one. Vitamin A was bad, but Beta Carotine was good... I thought they both were Vit A. And I thought that we shouldn't take Vit A with HCV. So would it then be okay to take Vit A as BC, but not in any other form.... ???

This is surely getting confusing now.


Marcia
479244 tn?1271567259
Marcia,

At this time I am being advised by an r.n. that has treated many cases of hcv.
She has also been a speaker for Pegintron.

The only vitamins that she recommends is a good multi-vitamin (w/o iron for me) and vitamin C.

Everything she has told me not to take, she has backed up with  a study or studies.

ex:  I was taking ginseng... thats a no no, cause ginseng can thin the blood  and while you are on treatment, your platelets may decrease and along with ginseng doing its thing, that could result in a blood clotting issue.

I can give you a list of what she recommends if you wish.   It really is not a lot of things and really more about eating healthy.

bandman
476246 tn?1418874514
Regarding VA and BC I was talking about the study you referred us to. It doesn't make sense to me.

I would love to see the list of what she recommended for you, for comparison of what I so far decided to take. It's always good to get more input.

I'm also a bit confused about the Vit E, why do all the others recommend taking vit E, if it helps replicate VL.

Marcia


Avatar universal
I don't have time to look it up right now but I remember a past study that showed vitamin E to slightly enhance the interferon.  I'm finding this contradiction confusing too. Anyone have a clue?
Ev
315996 tn?1429057829
Didn't HR say that TMG would do the same thing as SAMe but is a lot cheaper?

Avatar universal
Yes but you also need a lot more of it. The best way is to take both.
Expensive that it is.
CS
476246 tn?1418874514
Back to Vitamin E.....


I just was sent home and didn't have my biopsy, because my prothrombin time is too low. I have not been taking any supplements for ages, nor any medications. I made sure not to take any blood thinning supplements nor blood thinning foods for ca 3 weeks before they took the test.

So now I'm thinking, since vitamin E is blood thinning, I would have a second reason to stay away from it... Does this make sense?

Marcia

29837 tn?1414538248
Makes sense to me, but what does the doctor have to say about this? Are you guessing about vitamin E, or could it be something else? Make an appointment today with a dietician. Bring the lab results with you. In the US, dieticians are often recommended for trying to figure out certain health issues pertaining to reactions to supplements and/or lack of sufficient vitamins that may cause a situation such as yours.

When I had my hip replaced in 2007, a dietician was sent to my hospital room, who bombarded me with questions trying to figure out why my platelets were so low. The hospital was ready to put a pint of blood in me. Shockingly, the next day, the doctor came in and said the platelets were now back to normal. Strange...This scenario could happen to you.

I had the same test you had two weeks ago and my readings were normal, although my platelets are low, but not to where there is concern from the doctor. The doctor directly connects low platelets to Hep C. I would get tested again in a week or so after stopping vitamin E. I used to take an additional 400mg daily aside from the 400mg already in my multi-vitamins. I stopped over a year ago and don't notice any difference in how I feel. This tells me you will also probably not feel the difference. Good luck my friend...

Magnum
29837 tn?1414538248
I forgot to mention, just to make sure I would not have any bleeding problems from the biopsy puncture, I took NO vitamins for a week. Maybe you could try that?

Magnum
476246 tn?1418874514
Thanks for your input... As said I have NOT taken any supplement for ages and I also made sure not to take any blood thinning foods (garlic, cayenne) nor supplements, nor any medications for well 3 weeks before today.

I am not taking anything at all.  My platelets are fine and no problems with any of my other blood counts except the coagulation factor. My prothrombin time 2 months ago and yesterday is almost the same value... so it is not one of a kind result. They will NOT perform a biopsy on me and this was the head of the hepatology clinic, you know the big guy, who is also the head of the research of this university hospital (Denmarks no 1), who was going to perform the procedure. He said that they will not take the risk to do a biopsy, as I could bleed to death. They have had a case like that not too long ago at onther hospital.

I'm not concerned about the biopsy anymore, as I am not going to have it.

I was asking in regard to the study bandman posted and also in regard to taking extra Vit E when one has already a prothrombin time problem. Knowing that vit e has a blood thinning factor.

I will ask my doctor on the 5th. But was wondering if anyone knows more about this subject.

Marcia
Marcia
Avatar universal
What about a fibrosure test which is non-invasive?  Being a geno 3 with higher incidence of fibrosis and fatty liver than other geno's, wouldn't that be an alternative?
Trin
476246 tn?1418874514
TY. I'll ask about it on the 5th.

Marcia
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