Aa
Who has the juice?
I am ready for that juice now!!
Nice nod of the head to Dr. Linus Pauling. He and Dr. Abram Hofer were basically the founders of orthomolecular nutrition (megadose vitamin therapy).
Mushrooms aside, there is plenty of evidence that endogenous substances (substances that the body makes or utilizes) can be very therapeutic. Alpha Lipoic Acid is made by the body, but levels decrease as you age. Vitamins are essential, and though some forms are toxic in large doses, many are quite therapeutic in megadose form. Glutathione is important for your body's native antioxidant system. Phosphatidylcholine is a fatty acid that comprises 80% of your cell membranes. All of the above are therapeutic supplements for hep c patients, orally and in IV form. Some quite significantly so.
Not to say that some foreign substances cannot be therapeutic as well - I do some of those as well. I also do grapefruit juice, but the only drug I take is Low
Dose Naltrexone and there is no interaction - however, I do the grapefruit juice in the morning and the LDN at night just to make sure.
Mike H
Mushrooms aside, there is plenty of evidence that endogenous substances (substances that the body makes or utilizes) can be very therapeutic. Alpha Lipoic Acid is made by the body, but levels decrease as you age. Vitamins are essential, and though some forms are toxic in large doses, many are quite therapeutic in megadose form. Glutathione is important for your body's native antioxidant system. Phosphatidylcholine is a fatty acid that comprises 80% of your cell membranes. All of the above are therapeutic supplements for hep c patients, orally and in IV form. Some quite significantly so.
Not to say that some foreign substances cannot be therapeutic as well - I do some of those as well. I also do grapefruit juice, but the only drug I take is Low
Dose Naltrexone and there is no interaction - however, I do the grapefruit juice in the morning and the LDN at night just to make sure.
Mike H
I know about the meds. I had just started treatment when I read the article about the grapefruit and was in the health food store to by some in pill form. My friend who works there stopped me thank goodness. That when I came here and posted the first time. Looked up the drugs which they know will not work with grapefruit and mine were'nt listed. Ask my dr. he said go ahead. Bought some and couldn't stand the acid with the treatment. Stopped. Grapefruit juice fermented. Ha, ha! No, I didn't drink it.
Wow, you guys know your herbs! Know your drugs! I am impressed and thankful. You know Trinity is screaming right now. She keeps it balanced.
I'm sending my sister to this thread for gardening advice.
Wow, you guys know your herbs! Know your drugs! I am impressed and thankful. You know Trinity is screaming right now. She keeps it balanced.
I'm sending my sister to this thread for gardening advice.
Just curious,what do you do to feed your cells??? i often post this question and no body seems to reveal what they eat.I belive food the the medicene...not in all cases mune you,but more disease comes from what we eat .or lack of,and the combo of the junk added to the food.
Mushrooms and algae are just food.Even the buttom white buttom mushrooms do the same as the shitake and portabella..its just that the coryceps and the other mushrooms have more nutrients...they are LOADED with minerial and vitamins and healing sugars,even proteins
Grapefruit juice has been proven to be a dangerous food/drink when injested with certain medications, mainly beta-blockers, but also some anti-cancer drugs. It also is bad for the enamel of our teeth and neutralizes friendly bacteria in the stomach.
I was told not to eat or drink grapefruit because it is suspect to concentrate medications.
I was told not to eat or drink grapefruit because it is suspect to concentrate medications.
Ther is an older woman who live across from me who is 80 years old and who was in pain and had arthritis for years and i gave her a bottle for free and within one week she was banging on my door almost crying and saying it chaged her life,now shes never home.always going to jaxx concerts ,her hand s wre seized up before she started taking it and now they are compleelt normal and the color of her skin has gone to a healthy normal.i could go on .my brother,my mother and more...not trying to be rude,but it you dont belive me...i dont care...lol
Good morning.on my way out to get my last blood dram for my last PCR results,will have the result In Aug 20.BTW,i dont eat pond scum or any other food or nutrient to "cure" anything.i eat them because it prevents disease and makes me feel great,i am 51 years old and i feel land look like im 20....also i have done the research on the algae and i dont even need it now,i have personal family friends who had major problems and are now "cured".I had problems too with tennis elbow from working on the CNC computer at work on machie and my elbows were" cured "almost overnite.Cured is a foured lteered word to me,all that gets done to make any-body better to feed the cells the proper nutrients,gotta run.
THANKS mike for remembering all that for me...I am so swamped with taxes right now I have to sneak in here for 10 minutes just for relief (closing my S Corp on my own is hell personified), but that leaves me a little addled and not giving enough info in here.
So thanks for that save !! Off chemo for 2 months and readind through 700 pages of corporatae tax law was not how I imagined my summer going.
Rocker...dude...joke...I never drank the stuff, I just poured it around the garden to scare off slugs..(although that was gross enough)
just josin" ya...since ya'all were joshin"....I'm not drinking pond scum or algea either...someone will have to prove in spades that's a cure before it crosses my lips.
Although, I did use some natural cures I researched them well first.
For instance I cured my allergies with extra C and a couple other immune system boosters that Linus Pauling (nobel prize winner) recommended, and induced my own labor for a late baby with herbs (much safer than the pharmaceuticals for inducting labor)...however you have to do a lot of research to make sure the science and the claims match. I used to spend hours in the library reading medical journals and research to make sure I got MORE than the naturalist view points...like the microbiologists..HELLO.....and I begged for old journals from the docs I worked for so that I ended up basically with a roomful of research....but that's all become MUCH easier now....in the 60's and 70's getting good info was no easy task.
all that said, I am intrigued by some of the research on the mushrooms...I say SOME.
my wait and see attitude on that however is because the cumulative effect of even micrograms of the wrong primordial fungi. I used to pick the brain of a friend who was a specialist in mushroom culture and so it was no surprise to me when a few folks died of accute liver failure from one bite of the wrong mushroom.
My concern would be a. that a legit lab and double blinds be done, and that controls be in place to get pharmaceutical grade product if it did work (because otherwise every tom **** and harry could be slicing up store bought mushrooms and capping them and selling them on the internet to unsuspecting desperate folks)...and trust me they will.
ALSO what makes the mushroom work? Is it an irritant that stimulates the immune system and due to that irritation the liver and immune system tries harder to regenerate(remember it only takes a few Micrograms of some fungi to die, so few micrograms you can't even see with the naked eye)...so I'd want to learn a lot more about all this before giving it the green light.
BTW, the idea of a toxin to regenerate and cause immune response is not new, it's what homeopathics is mostly about, it's what the guy that really invented homeopathics was into....most folks don't know that because they never read his book....they just took the sulfer 3x or phosphorus 10x thinking they were to take what they were LOW in...but in reality his theory was that the opposite mineral to what you needed would trigger a better response...all very convoluted...and also you may know that arthritics uses bee venom, get stung, to stimuate a healing response by stressing the immune system...more examples exist. But in the case of mushrooms this all COULD backfire because of the microtoxins and the fact that its the liver that must try to handle such things. So I'd want to see some LONG term studies and on some really SICK rat livers etc before I'd sign up as a lab rat...if you follow. And just because something is "NATURAL" doesn't mean some greedy biologist can't make millions of of this if he "proves" it works....later someone else may "prove" his fuzzy science, but meanwhile he's MADEOFF with not just your money but your health as well...so don't believe everything you read anywhere, including pubmed.
mb
So thanks for that save !! Off chemo for 2 months and readind through 700 pages of corporatae tax law was not how I imagined my summer going.
Rocker...dude...joke...I never drank the stuff, I just poured it around the garden to scare off slugs..(although that was gross enough)
just josin" ya...since ya'all were joshin"....I'm not drinking pond scum or algea either...someone will have to prove in spades that's a cure before it crosses my lips.
Although, I did use some natural cures I researched them well first.
For instance I cured my allergies with extra C and a couple other immune system boosters that Linus Pauling (nobel prize winner) recommended, and induced my own labor for a late baby with herbs (much safer than the pharmaceuticals for inducting labor)...however you have to do a lot of research to make sure the science and the claims match. I used to spend hours in the library reading medical journals and research to make sure I got MORE than the naturalist view points...like the microbiologists..HELLO.....and I begged for old journals from the docs I worked for so that I ended up basically with a roomful of research....but that's all become MUCH easier now....in the 60's and 70's getting good info was no easy task.
all that said, I am intrigued by some of the research on the mushrooms...I say SOME.
my wait and see attitude on that however is because the cumulative effect of even micrograms of the wrong primordial fungi. I used to pick the brain of a friend who was a specialist in mushroom culture and so it was no surprise to me when a few folks died of accute liver failure from one bite of the wrong mushroom.
My concern would be a. that a legit lab and double blinds be done, and that controls be in place to get pharmaceutical grade product if it did work (because otherwise every tom **** and harry could be slicing up store bought mushrooms and capping them and selling them on the internet to unsuspecting desperate folks)...and trust me they will.
ALSO what makes the mushroom work? Is it an irritant that stimulates the immune system and due to that irritation the liver and immune system tries harder to regenerate(remember it only takes a few Micrograms of some fungi to die, so few micrograms you can't even see with the naked eye)...so I'd want to learn a lot more about all this before giving it the green light.
BTW, the idea of a toxin to regenerate and cause immune response is not new, it's what homeopathics is mostly about, it's what the guy that really invented homeopathics was into....most folks don't know that because they never read his book....they just took the sulfer 3x or phosphorus 10x thinking they were to take what they were LOW in...but in reality his theory was that the opposite mineral to what you needed would trigger a better response...all very convoluted...and also you may know that arthritics uses bee venom, get stung, to stimuate a healing response by stressing the immune system...more examples exist. But in the case of mushrooms this all COULD backfire because of the microtoxins and the fact that its the liver that must try to handle such things. So I'd want to see some LONG term studies and on some really SICK rat livers etc before I'd sign up as a lab rat...if you follow. And just because something is "NATURAL" doesn't mean some greedy biologist can't make millions of of this if he "proves" it works....later someone else may "prove" his fuzzy science, but meanwhile he's MADEOFF with not just your money but your health as well...so don't believe everything you read anywhere, including pubmed.
mb
You eat slimy slugs in your morning protein shakes??? ya right....i guess im one to talk,here i am eating a mushroom(fungus) that takes host inside of a baby butterfly(grub) and the fungus kills the grum and uses its nutrients to grow out of the head.I also eat slimy pond scum(bacteria)...we both could come up with a good recipe.
Here is a quote from a past post by Merrybe that I saved because it is interesting. It is also on point with her post above:
"A recent study showed that grapefruit juice lowered viral load, because there's a bioflavanoid in grapefruit juice that inhibits CYP3A4.
HOWEVER, the problem with inhibiting CYP450 enzymes is that many prescription drugs are metabolized by these enzymes..... and by inhibiting them, that can raise the level of the drug in your blood and it can cause an overdose. (taking Tylenol and alcohol together can cause the level of Tylenol to be toxic. That's why we always tell people that Tylenol by itself is not really a problem but never to take it with alcohol).
So for example, if you take a blood pressure medication that is metabolized by CYP3A4, inhibiting this enzyme with grapefruit juice may raise the levels of the blood pressure med in your blood and IN YOUR LIVER....and it can cause an overdose (and your blood pressure to go down too low).
So if you want to lower your viral load by drinking grapefruit juice, you'll need to make sure that you're not taking any meds that are metabolized by CYP450.
(WARNING: Do not drink grapefruit juice during HCV treatment since it can cause oxidative stress and impact treatment success. Also, be aware that the effect from a small amount of grapefruit juice can last all day).
Basically, in my experience, II found that a lot of stuff that was of value while off treatment was not of value on treatment. I should have qualified my former post. I plead mea culpa.
Best regards,
Mike H
"A recent study showed that grapefruit juice lowered viral load, because there's a bioflavanoid in grapefruit juice that inhibits CYP3A4.
HOWEVER, the problem with inhibiting CYP450 enzymes is that many prescription drugs are metabolized by these enzymes..... and by inhibiting them, that can raise the level of the drug in your blood and it can cause an overdose. (taking Tylenol and alcohol together can cause the level of Tylenol to be toxic. That's why we always tell people that Tylenol by itself is not really a problem but never to take it with alcohol).
So for example, if you take a blood pressure medication that is metabolized by CYP3A4, inhibiting this enzyme with grapefruit juice may raise the levels of the blood pressure med in your blood and IN YOUR LIVER....and it can cause an overdose (and your blood pressure to go down too low).
So if you want to lower your viral load by drinking grapefruit juice, you'll need to make sure that you're not taking any meds that are metabolized by CYP450.
(WARNING: Do not drink grapefruit juice during HCV treatment since it can cause oxidative stress and impact treatment success. Also, be aware that the effect from a small amount of grapefruit juice can last all day).
Basically, in my experience, II found that a lot of stuff that was of value while off treatment was not of value on treatment. I should have qualified my former post. I plead mea culpa.
Best regards,
Mike H
nope, I'm not kidding.
I've always been an organic gardener, had a farm and 500 critters for many years.
I also sprinked dried blood around the garden, this works for keeping away most rodents, rabbits, mice moles etc, as well as deer...again, the smell of blood means something died, and that their may be a predator around...hence the deer avoided my garden thankfully...although it never worked on my goats, when they got out they always made a bee line for my garden..., they'll go anywhere and eat anything.
Used a few drops of dishsoapy water in a spray bottle for most unfriendly insects and aphids...works better than pesticides (saves money too...thats all those fancy "organic bug sprays are...save a bundle and put 5 drops in your own water..
Cindy...I'd read up more on grapefruit if I were you...there are really more cautionary thing that you realize regarding grapefruit. It interacts with many medications and can make you sicker rather than better. Check out Pubmed, just search for grapefruit interactions.
the Mayo clinic has a great site dealing with the toxicity of many herbs, mushrooms etc...it's well worth a visit.
even berry,beet, red meat etc must be curtailed with liver disease or you run the risk of iron overload, and liver cancer will follow on the heels of that. (HCC)
That doesn't mean that everyone must avoid these entirely, but you need to know your stage/grade and whether iron is accumulating in your liver, and keep an eye on your iron levels with blood work, otherwise you will be setting yourself up for more problems.
mb
I've always been an organic gardener, had a farm and 500 critters for many years.
I also sprinked dried blood around the garden, this works for keeping away most rodents, rabbits, mice moles etc, as well as deer...again, the smell of blood means something died, and that their may be a predator around...hence the deer avoided my garden thankfully...although it never worked on my goats, when they got out they always made a bee line for my garden..., they'll go anywhere and eat anything.
Used a few drops of dishsoapy water in a spray bottle for most unfriendly insects and aphids...works better than pesticides (saves money too...thats all those fancy "organic bug sprays are...save a bundle and put 5 drops in your own water..
Cindy...I'd read up more on grapefruit if I were you...there are really more cautionary thing that you realize regarding grapefruit. It interacts with many medications and can make you sicker rather than better. Check out Pubmed, just search for grapefruit interactions.
the Mayo clinic has a great site dealing with the toxicity of many herbs, mushrooms etc...it's well worth a visit.
even berry,beet, red meat etc must be curtailed with liver disease or you run the risk of iron overload, and liver cancer will follow on the heels of that. (HCC)
That doesn't mean that everyone must avoid these entirely, but you need to know your stage/grade and whether iron is accumulating in your liver, and keep an eye on your iron levels with blood work, otherwise you will be setting yourself up for more problems.
mb
I suggest if you still are into mushrooms,or anyfoods,go organic.you dont know what kind of perservative was used and other chemicials.Even nitrogen based fertilzers are not good.
Comments by Dr. Sahelian: For the time being, limit your intake of agaricus supplement to maximum 3 times a week and a full week off each month. It is not clear at this time whether the problem was with the particular agaricus supplement these patient were using, i.e, Himematsutake as it is called in Japan, or whether the problem of liver harm applies to all agaricus extract brands. Was the Himematsutake product these Japanese cancer patients were taking contaminated with something else? It is also not clear whether the liver problem is dose dependent. Sometimes patients with cancer will take a very high amount of a supplement thinking more is better. It is also not clear whether the liver damage occurred due to the fact that these patients may have been on chemotherapy drugs which weakened their liver and immune system.
http://www.raysahelian.com/agaricus.html
http://www.raysahelian.com/agaricus.html
i get mine from" new chapter "....all organic and tested for contaminates,,you also have to watch the companies that make them,jusy like anything else,all kinds of ripp off health products on the market
Those are what i eat,but they cultivate them now on food,rice in particular,ive taken them before i strated my TX and am now back to taking the" killer shroom"they kill 2 birds with one stone...they are excellent at raising the Killer T cell in the human body and fight viruses ,the wild cordyceps are $5000/lb
Hi Ev,
Always nice to hear from you.
I hope you and Joe are doing well. Always hoping for the best.
MikeH
Always nice to hear from you.
I hope you and Joe are doing well. Always hoping for the best.
MikeH
I had not seen that study about cordyceps. I'd seen another using cordycep senesis and astragalus along with interferon/riba. The results were impressive.
I have been getting the cordyceps from Swanson vitamin. They have an almost good smell to me. I bought them from another source that smelled very bad. A little worrisome as to why they didn't smell the same. Needless to say, I stuck to the Swanson brand.
Joe's enzymes have been really good on Tx.
Ev
I have been getting the cordyceps from Swanson vitamin. They have an almost good smell to me. I bought them from another source that smelled very bad. A little worrisome as to why they didn't smell the same. Needless to say, I stuck to the Swanson brand.
Joe's enzymes have been really good on Tx.
Ev
By the way,
Have you ever seen the natural variety of cordyceps? In the Himalayas around 13,000 feet caterpillars burrow through the ground. They eat the spores of cordyceps, the spores eventually kill the caterpillar and gestate inside the corpse, using the caterpillars guts as nutrients. Eventually the mushroom head blooms out of the mouth of the caterpillar! I have one in a bottle, very weird looking indeed!
In China they sell the whole caterpillar/mushrooms in the market by weight. You have to be careful because sometimes they stuff bee-bees in the caterpillar's *** to bump the weight and the price up.
Watch out for the bee-bees!
Mike H
Have you ever seen the natural variety of cordyceps? In the Himalayas around 13,000 feet caterpillars burrow through the ground. They eat the spores of cordyceps, the spores eventually kill the caterpillar and gestate inside the corpse, using the caterpillars guts as nutrients. Eventually the mushroom head blooms out of the mouth of the caterpillar! I have one in a bottle, very weird looking indeed!
In China they sell the whole caterpillar/mushrooms in the market by weight. You have to be careful because sometimes they stuff bee-bees in the caterpillar's *** to bump the weight and the price up.
Watch out for the bee-bees!
Mike H
Look at all the people who die taking pharma drugs,literally thousands a year,and 3 cancer patients full of cancer die taking them...and it wasnt a study,just a recored statistic...BTW...arent the shrooms related to the corner store white button mushrooms?....shouldnt we all be dead by now?...i dont have cancer and ill keep eating mu shrooms...i now am eating all kinds in salads....if they were that bad they would shut down all the grocers by now after 3000 years of consumption...no worries here
heres another study thats claims good results from this Agaricus blazei ,ill bet the the cancer patients in the preious post had a batch with some kind of food poisioning involved...if i had cancer tho,i think i would back off on taking them.
Our findings suggest that previous treatment with A. blazei exerts a "hepatoprotective"effect on both liver toxicity and hepatocarcinogenesis process induced by a moderately toxic dose of DEN.
Abstract
The modifying potential of prior administration of an aqueous extract of the mushroom Agaricus blazei Murrill (Agaricaceae) (Ab) on hepatotoxicity induced by different doses of diethylnitrosamine (DEN) in male Wistar rats was evaluated. During 2 weeks, animals of groups G3 (Ab+DEN50), G5 (Ab+DEN100), G7 (Ab+DEN200), and G8 (Ab-treated) were treated with the A. blazei through drinking water. After this period, groups G2 (DEN50), G3 (Ab+DEN50), G4 (DEN100) G5 (Ab+DEN100), G6 (DEN200), and G7 (Ab+DEN200) were given a single i.p. injection of 50, 100 and 200 mg/kg of DEN, respectively, while groups G1 (non-treated) and G8 (Ab-treated) were treated with 0.9% NaCl only. All animals were killed 48 h after DEN or NaCl treatments. The hepatocyte replication rate was estimated by the index of the proliferating cell nuclear antigen (PCNA) positive hepatocytes and the appearance of putative preneoplastic hepatocytes through expression of the enzyme glutathione S-transferase placental form (GST-P). After DEN-treatment, ALT levels, PCNA labeling index, and the number of GST-P positive hepatocytes were lower in rats that received A. blazei treatment and were exposed to 100 mg/kg of DEN. Our findings suggest that previous treatment with A. blazei exerts a hepatoprotective effect on both liver toxicity and hepatocarcinogenesis process induced by a moderately toxic dose of DEN.
Our findings suggest that previous treatment with A. blazei exerts a "hepatoprotective"effect on both liver toxicity and hepatocarcinogenesis process induced by a moderately toxic dose of DEN.
Abstract
The modifying potential of prior administration of an aqueous extract of the mushroom Agaricus blazei Murrill (Agaricaceae) (Ab) on hepatotoxicity induced by different doses of diethylnitrosamine (DEN) in male Wistar rats was evaluated. During 2 weeks, animals of groups G3 (Ab+DEN50), G5 (Ab+DEN100), G7 (Ab+DEN200), and G8 (Ab-treated) were treated with the A. blazei through drinking water. After this period, groups G2 (DEN50), G3 (Ab+DEN50), G4 (DEN100) G5 (Ab+DEN100), G6 (DEN200), and G7 (Ab+DEN200) were given a single i.p. injection of 50, 100 and 200 mg/kg of DEN, respectively, while groups G1 (non-treated) and G8 (Ab-treated) were treated with 0.9% NaCl only. All animals were killed 48 h after DEN or NaCl treatments. The hepatocyte replication rate was estimated by the index of the proliferating cell nuclear antigen (PCNA) positive hepatocytes and the appearance of putative preneoplastic hepatocytes through expression of the enzyme glutathione S-transferase placental form (GST-P). After DEN-treatment, ALT levels, PCNA labeling index, and the number of GST-P positive hepatocytes were lower in rats that received A. blazei treatment and were exposed to 100 mg/kg of DEN. Our findings suggest that previous treatment with A. blazei exerts a hepatoprotective effect on both liver toxicity and hepatocarcinogenesis process induced by a moderately toxic dose of DEN.
Hey Rocker,
Man, I see your point, and on its face it seems like a reasonable warning. The problem that I see is this is not a study, it's three case histories. As they say, agaricus is commonly used in Japan by cancer patients. The fact that they only have come up with three suspect cases makes me wonder.
I've taken a lot of both agaricus and cordyceps while having my labs done, and I did not experience deleterious effects from either. I guess my question is, if you need rigorous studies to establish efficacy, shouldn't you also need them to establish harmful effects? I've seen that double standard pretty often in medical science.
That being said, I don't take mushrooms now, but only because I think there are more effective things to take, not because I'm worried about them.
Man, I see your point, and on its face it seems like a reasonable warning. The problem that I see is this is not a study, it's three case histories. As they say, agaricus is commonly used in Japan by cancer patients. The fact that they only have come up with three suspect cases makes me wonder.
I've taken a lot of both agaricus and cordyceps while having my labs done, and I did not experience deleterious effects from either. I guess my question is, if you need rigorous studies to establish efficacy, shouldn't you also need them to establish harmful effects? I've seen that double standard pretty often in medical science.
That being said, I don't take mushrooms now, but only because I think there are more effective things to take, not because I'm worried about them.
There is lots of studies proving this shroom helps liver function tho,looks like the cancer and other things were proberly the cause of this.
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