Mj smoking

[creewoman]

I just remembered that when I saw the Transplant Hepatologist she told me not to smoke MJ because it has harmful effects on hcv!"If anyone asks you to just say no even though it is now legal.What?!! I have never heard that one before.Does anyone know anything about this?

[Idyllic]

Wow this thread is wild. Advocate  (who was also with Cree at her appointment) put the conversation into context.

A statement related to marijuana and "harmful effects on hcv" said by a Transplant Hepatologist in a doctor's appointment to her prospective patient ☞without further explanation☚ could have implications based on specific medical circumstances or perspectives rather than for all of us with HCV as a whole.

Other transplant candidates have posted about the rigid exclusionary criteria in the past. It is a good thing Cree does not even smoke it :)

I hope Cree (I thought it was "Snow???) you keep posting your experiences throughout the process!!

[christinatas]

oh you are so right.i am really thinking about just taking really good care of myself and not do any treatment except homeopathic.i already take good care of myself EXCEPT i smoke cigs.i do have some pot that i have been using when i feel real nauseated it does work.BUT i do not like the way it makes me feel.it makes me worry about everything for about 30 minutes so i havent been smoking it .but i am newly diagnosed and i dont have my 1st appt. w/ gastro doc til feb.5th.i wish someone would reach out to me and tell me all the questions and answers i need to be aware of.i am scared and i cant talk to anyone about this.i work as a waitress so i cannot tell anyone except close friends about my diagnosis.people dont understand that this disease is really hard to get and i am afraid we would lose business if anyone knew.i know i got off subject about the pot,but i really dont like the way it makes my head feel.too many emotions right now to smoke it.but it did work really well when i got badly nauseated all last week.

[creewoman]

I DO NOT smoke.It was only something that didn't make sense to me.It seemed before I got all of this info that it would be helpful.I still believe it just because it was illegal for so many years and thought of as a "Gateway Drug".It just seems that the medical community only thinks things that are beneficial to the practice of Medicine are the things that come from the Pharmeceutical co.
Cancer and other diseases are a big industry and if there was something that would help we would never know about it.it could'nt possibly be doing any good according to many.Even thinks that cures and healing come in the form of a prescription( Oh,and a positive attitude)

[christinatas]

MY FRIEND ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO WAS TURNED DOWN FOR TRANSPLANT CAUSE HE SHOWED POSITIVE FOR POT.THIS STUFF HELPED W/ HIS NAUSEA BUT THEY TOOK HIM OFF THE TRANSPLANT LIST BUT LIKE I SAID THIS WAS 5 YEARS AGO

[heart_in_the_keyes]

this post is wild....most meds originally came from a plant...lived in the keyes where bales of MJ would wash up in my cove...world wide hemp.has been around for eons.  Agree w/orphaned hawk..drying/burning would kill mites (never saw them). My transplant dr doesn't like milk thistle...I can't take NSAID's due to ulcers...Absolutely agree with Hector that a transplant center will be looking for indications that you are able to manage your health and that you care about maintaining your health whenever possible. If you are waiting for a transplant but you are not following your doctor’s instructions, you may not be considered a candidate.  You have to be clear headed to keep on top of the med regime. Have ESLD/HCV/HE. The transplant clinic makes you go through 5 tests..or atleast mine dose..you have to pass tests on heart, lungs, kidneys, mental and social. The last two cover a lot of areas, a few being do you have the disposition to do what is expected of you, do you have the clarity to follow directions and take meds...do you realize you are restricted and if you had a drinking or drug problem can not return to it.  And many others topics.  And I can see why. Why waste a good liver on someone who isn't serious.  As for the weight..I have never had the weight loss issue a lot of people have yet. Have the opposite. They told me that I was in a odd group of patients (5%) that do not lose weight and actually gain it.  Started all of this out at about in '96 @ 110# and went all the way over 220# by 2000 and had to really work on my diet to get me back to 145-150 and seem stuck.  It is hard and still working on it. You hear all the time to lose weight.You need to because you need all your strenght to deal with all of this..(example: pick up a bag of 30-50# dog food, salt, whatever and carry it around with you all day.Pretty tiring. That is like carrying the extra weight on your frame which is already frail to being ill. Drink water, exercise if you can and to a nuitritionist. And yes the poppy and poppy fields are pretty. When I lived in India for a year I was amazed that it is sold in stores in powder form in tins about the size of large powdered proteins and used in yogurt drinks and for medicine...saw them rub it on teething babies gums.  So, good or bad, all cultures have different drugs all of which people react to differently. Same for food.  Any one who has eaten the food of their culture and then travels for some extended period of time to another area of the world will react differently to the foods and the drugs.  .  

[orphanedhawk]

This post got me wondering if the surgery would be denied for a live liver transplant. It would seem to not be relevant with a live liver donor.

Mine was in Taiwan, where they didn't ask about what I did, ate or anything other than that my donor and I do some preliminary tests.

[Bill200]

True.
And in case it's not clear to anyone reading this, many, many things can prevent or get you off the transplant list.  MJ will certainly do that and they do a drug test for all the drugs during the lead-up phase.  If you are needing a transplant, don't do something stupid like smoking that and turn yourself into a dead-man walking.  You've got a whole lot of things outside your control so at least make the things under your control right.

[Advocate1955]

mikesimon:  Thank you for the article.  I think that answers the question (or at least raises the question) about the concern regarding smoking pot and increased liver damage.

mikesimon:  "I think the reason transplant centers exclude pot smokers is because marijuana is an illegal drug. There is such a shortage of organs that I suspect that there is a desire to weed (sic) out as many candidates as they ethically can and pot is an easy exclusionary factor. "

MJ is not illegal in the state in which creewoman and I live (Washington).  Medical marijuana has bee prescribed in Washington for quite awhile, and marijuana was legalized for recreational use in Washington last month.

Cree:  "I  wonder if Obese and over-weight folks are prejudgiced by the Med. for transplants."  

There is an upper limit to BMI that transplant centers will allow for liver transplants.  If the patient exceeds that limit, they will not qualify for a transplant.  This is related to the increased chance of surviving the transplant.  The risks are higher for a patient with a higher BMI.

These criteria aren't, in my opinion, designed to be prejudicial.  They are designed to ensure that livers go to patients who have a stronger chance of surviving the surgery and the post transplant period.

Advocate1955

[creewoman]

Yes Morphine is created from Opium Poppys.

[orphanedhawk]

Even the opium poppy has it's place~ the flowers are lovely :)

[maybe368]

So true, especially when most beneficial drugs are from plants. Even synthetics are based on plant based drugs. The war on pot started as a racist proposition, but became a huge money maker for many different people. The feds classify pot as no beneficial use, just like heroin, now that is government thinking. Sheesh..Mark

[orphanedhawk]

There has been some talk in my community about the pharmaceutical companies being behind the feds recent raids on marijuana dispensaries.
They certainly do not like anyone interfering with their profits.

I was thinking how strange it is to think of outlawing a plant. Just the idea of it, is so odd, really, odd to me. It is a plant, simple and natural.

[creewoman]

I  wonder if Obese and over-weight folks are prejudgiced by the Med. for transplants.
I

[creewoman]

Pharmeceutical companies are brain-washing the Medical Community.They want the Meds to use drugs that they have manufactured.The Gastroenterologist that I see asked me why I use Milk Thistle.He is like trying to talk to the Principal ...I said that Milk Thistle has long been used in Europe and is standard stock in the Emergency rooms for Drug and Alcohol,and Mushroom poisonings.It is given I.V.
I will see if I can find the article.

[orphanedhawk]

"I think the reason transplant centers exclude pot smokers is because marijuana is an illegal drug. There is such a shortage of organs that I suspect that there is a desire to weed (sic) out as many candidates as they ethically can and pot is an easy exclusionary factor. "

I'm in full agreement with Mikesimon.

Mj has not been studied enough to know it's full effects, such as smoking, compared to edibles, tinctures, etc.
Always, when reading research it's important to consider the source and whether they began with a specific goal in mind ( like proving something is harmful )

The fact remains that it is used as a reason to exclude people from getting a liver transplant. This is reason enough to stay away from it if you are in need of such surgery.

BO~ Any mold, spider-mites etc, would die during the drying process and definitely would die once burnt.
However, post transplant they do put patients on an antibiotics to avoid the possibility of getting  infections.

[mikesimon]

I don't buy the fungal reason at all.

Here is how much things have changed. In May of 2000 shortly before my transplant I asked one of the examining hepatologists what their attitude was about marijuana smoking. He said and I quote " I have never heard of anyone being denied a transplant because they smoked marijuana".

I have read all of the articles - there are ones that suggest that daily pot smoking increase fibrosis in HCV patients and ones that suggest a greater compliance with SOC HCV treatment in patients who smoked marijuana which results in a higher SVR rate.

I think the reason transplant centers exclude pot smokers is because marijuana is an illegal drug. There is such a shortage of organs that I suspect that there is a desire to weed (sic) out as many candidates as they ethically can and pot is an easy exclusionary factor.

[rivll]

This is interesting. MJ really helped me with the pain and insomnia, but after I was no longer in pain, I found I was still using it in the evenings.
At some point, I realized it was habit forming and cut back a little.
I saw a Hepatologist on Monday who has said basically if you need it to get through TX, he won't tell you not to take it and asked me why I was still using...I said I think it has become a habit. He said, "I will not tell you not to smoke (vaporize) it, but you should know that it is not good for your liver." He was kind and non judgmental. I went home and put the vaporizer away. I will just drink my sleepytime tea and be grateful for a clear mind.

[BoceprevirGal]

   I had heard one explanation for why we cant have liver-transplants, if we test pos for THC:  because marajuana can cause a type of fungal infection, in the lungs, becuz post-transplant peeps have to take immuno-suppresant drugs.
    Now, I have no links to base this fact on, only something I remember reading on the Internet, but it makes sense ( not sensemilla)
   I have many times seen marajuana buds that have spider mites and fungus.  
Marajuana also taxes our immune system, by draining our vitamins, mainly vitamin C.

[mikesimon]

Regular marijuana use increases risk of hepatitis C-related liver damage
Posted on August 30, 2012

Bethesda, MD (Jan. 28, 2008) – Patients with chronic hepatitis C (HCV) infection should not use marijuana (cannabis) daily, according to a study published in Clinical Gastroenterology and Hepatology, the official journal of the American Gastroenterological Association (AGA) Institute. Researchers found that HCV patients who used cannabis daily were at significantly higher risk of moderate to severe liver fibrosis, or tissue scarring. Additionally, patients with moderate to heavy alcohol use combined with regular cannabis use experienced an even greater risk of liver fibrosis. The recommendation to avoid cannabis is especially important in patients who are coinfected with HCV/HIV since the progression of fibrosis is already greater in these patients.

“Hepatitis C is a major public health concern and the number of patients developing complications of chronic disease is on the rise,” according to Norah Terrault, MD, MPH, from the University of California, San Francisco and lead investigator of the study. “It is essential that we identify risk factors that can be modified to prevent and/or lessen the progression of HCV to fibrosis, cirrhosis and even liver cancer. These complications of chronic HCV infection will significantly contribute to the overall burden of liver disease in the U.S. and will continue to increase in the next decade.”

This is the first study that evaluates the relationship between alcohol and cannabis use in patients with HCV and those coinfected with HCV/HIV. It is of great importance to disease management that physicians understand the factors influencing HCV disease severity, especially those that are potentially modifiable. The use and abuse of both alcohol and marijuana together is not an uncommon behavior. Also, individuals who are moderate and heavy users of alcohol may use cannabis as a substitute to reduce their alcohol intake, especially after receiving a diagnosis like HCV, which affects their liver.

Researchers found a significant association between daily versus non-daily cannabis use and moderate to severe fibrosis when reviewing this factor alone. Other factors contributing to increased fibrosis included age at enrollment, lifetime duration of alcohol use, lifetime duration of moderate to heavy alcohol use and necroinflammatory score (stage of fibrosis). In reviewing combined factors, there was a strong (nearly 7-fold higher risk) and independent relationship between daily cannabis use and moderate to severe fibrosis. Gender, race, body mass index, HCV viral load and genotype, HIV coinfection, source of HCV infection, and biopsy length were not significantly associated with moderate to severe fibrosis.

Of the 328 patients screened for the study, 204 patients were included in the analysis. The baseline characteristics of those included in the study were similar to those excluded with the exception of daily cannabis use (13.7 percent of those studied used cannabis daily versus 6.45 percent of those not included). Patients who used cannabis daily had a significantly lower body mass index than non-daily users (25.2 versus 26.4), were more likely to be using medically prescribed cannabis (57.1 percent versus 8.79 percent), and more likely to have HIV coinfection (39.3 percent versus 18.2 percent).

The prevalence of cannabis use amongst adults in the U.S. is estimated to be almost 4 percent. Regular use has increased in certain population subgroups, including those aged 18 to 29.

Hepatitis is an inflammation of the liver. Hepatitis C is the most common form of hepatitis and infects nearly 4 million people in the U.S., with an estimated 150,000 new cases diagnosed each year. While it can be spread through blood transfusions and contaminated needles, for a substantial number of patients, the cause is unknown. This form of viral hepatitis may lead to cirrhosis, or scarring, of the liver. Coinfection of hepatitis C in patients who are HIV positive is common; about one quarter of patients infected with HIV are infected with hepatitis C. The majority of these patients, 50 to 90 percent, were infected through injection drug use. Hepatitis C ranks with alcohol abuse as the most common cause of chronic liver disease and leads to about 1,000 liver transplants yearly in the U.S.

http://engineeringevil.com/2012/08/30/regular-marijuana-use-increases-risk-of-hepatitis-c-related-liver-damage/

[maybe368]

pot is a million times better for the sides than all the prescription and otc meds put together, this is just long lived bias on the part of the medical community. This is my personal opinion and I highly recommend that you follow the doc's advice. I see a fundamental problem with preferring to prescribe legal narcotics to pot, it's indefensible and not good patient care. The government has spent millions trying to de-high pot, but I don't see them trying to de-high hydrocodone. The drug laws against pot are racist in nature and are archaic and ridiculous, in AZ hep-c IS a qualifying illness for legal pot. I would like the medical community to explain how that happened in Nazizona ...carry on Mark

[Advocate1955]

Fortunately Cree does not smoke MJ, so it will NOT be an issue in her upcoming assessment for transplant.  There was another conversation elsewhere on the forum regarding MJ, pain relief, and pre-transplant qualification criteria.  Since I was with Cree at her first appointment with the transplant hepatologist, I did hear the transplant hepatologist say exactly those words, "If anyone offers you pot, say no, even though it's legal now, we are learning that pot has a negative impact on Hep C". I understand the part about transplant hepatologists wanting to make sure that a transplant patient is following doctor's orders, not taking anything that will further damage their health or put them at risk for not surviving the transplant, and being well enough/strong enough for the pre and post transplant requirements (in order to survive).   As I said, Cree does not smoke pot and complies with doctor's orders, so it's a non-issue for her, but I was surprised at the doc's statement too.  I had never heard that before either.
Advocate1955

[HectorSF]

It has nothing to do with marijuana being legal or not.
Alcohol is legal.
Tobacco is legal.
NSAIDs are legal.
Barbiturates are legal by prescription.
So is Oxy in its various forms.
That is no the point.
A transplant center will be looking for indications that you are able to manage your health and that you care about maintaining your health whenever possible. If you are waiting for a transplant but you are not following your doctor’s instructions, you may not be considered a candidate. The post-transplant regime is rigorous and requires diligence; your ability to follow your current regimen will be considered an indication of your willingness to take care of yourself after surgery.

What is harmful to the liver, as always it all depends on how advanced your liver disease is. Most people here don't have cirrhosis. So they can take NSAIDs just like a healthy person. A decompensated cirrhotic and have internal bleeding, an HE episode or kidney failure. So there is no one answer for everyone. What one patient can do another can't. What treatment works for one patient doesn't mean it will work for another. Haven't we seen this time and time again. We people have different side effects and different blood levels in response to the same treatment drugs.

All transplant patients sign a form agreeing to be compliant with the rules to be listed for transplant. Talking any drug not prescribed buy your hepatologist is to be no in compliance with what you agreed to be be listed.

Patient has been denied liver transplants for smoking pot and have died. Of course many continue to drink alcohol and end up dying. All transplant patients can be screened for drugs at any time.

As few on this forum probably know, post transplant patients are prone to life-threatening infections and cancer. So talking any drugs pre or post transplant increases the chance or a poor outcome. Organs are in short supply to UNOS and transplant centers don't give a organ to someone who has a poor prognosis.

For those with little liver disease these are not things they need to think about.

Unfortunately more and more 50-60 year old are only finding out these days that they are infected with hep C and have developed cirrhosis after being asymptomatic for decades. These people make up the the largest group of people with liver disease needing liver transplants. So organs will be in shorter supply in the future unless infected patients can be treated before they need a transplant to continue living.

For those of us with cirrhosis, especially decompensated and end-stage it is a matter of life and death.

hector