Can pain and redness in toes be from Lyme Disease?

[Murphgolf]

This is a "what comes next" type of question.

My big toe and bottom of right foot have felt "crunchy" for some time. But now I have noticed my big toe and the toe next to it in my left foot are red (inflamed looking), hurt like a burn and also feel crunchy at times.

Started minocycline about two weeks ago and trying to possibly tie it to that. Could Mino. cause that? I've also noticed my skin is more wrinkled than it was after having an improvement in symptoms my first five weeks on Bicillin LA (2.4 MU but now 1.2 MU).

Not sure if the foot is from running a short hill in front of m\y house, a new Lyme symptom or meds. Ran the hill for weeks without any problems.

I have really been trying to be positive about all this, but with the skin and foot, just getting bit down again. Had a really good five weeks or so when I started Bicillin, but that faded a bit before Christmas.  It also seems my emotions have become an issue again (anxiety and depression).

Anyone experience any of this, anbd can the foot/toes be part of the whole Lyme Disease or co-infections picture?

Thanks

[Ricobord]

IGeneX is better at the Bart testing than other labs.  But I believe their tests are still species specific.

I was "Not Negative" on my bartonella henselae test and negative on the FISH test.  My doc considers "Not negative" as a positive.  I would have been negative at any other lab.  I hope yours gives you an answer, but you still might need a clinical diagnosis.  I've read lots of stories of people who never tested positive for Bart, but then got better on anti-Bart meds.

A study by the CDC published in May 2012 turned up surprising levels of infection of a couple other species of Bartonella that I don't even know if there are commercial tests for:  Bartonella Koehlerae and Bartonella Vinsonii (subspecies berkhoffii). The data was collected in '08-'09, and yet it doesn't seem the CDC has taken any action on it.  Nearly 6 years later and doctors are still oblivious.

This study describes how some of the symptoms vary, such as more neuro symptoms with B. Henselae.  The symptom list is surprisingly like Lyme (although probably half the people in the study claimed to have a Lyme diagnosis already).  I am surprised to be realizing how many of my own symptoms I had attributed to Lyme that are turning out to be Bart.

I imagine having any of the other Bart species would result in a negative B. Henselae test.  This study didn't even look at Bartonella Quintana, the old "Trench Fever" or "Shin Bone Fever" of WWI infamy.  Doctors think this only turns up in Skid Row homeless people because that's where it was identified recently.  LLMDs know, though, that it's turning up in Lyme patients. This species is often the culprit in lower leg pain.  I believe IGeneX has a b. quintana test. If your shins are killing you, you'll want this test.

[Murphgolf]

Thanks for everyone's input and ideas. I've been tested for Bartonella, but we all know just because it was negative doesn't mean you don't have it. I was tested by IGenex. The mino. makes me feel strange and dizzy also. And I've been pulsing Tindazole, but not the others. Seems like you two are right wneh you say it gives time for the bugs to come back.

Going back up to 2.4 MU of bicillin a week twice a week.

The hardest part about all this is the confusing and conflicting information out there. I trust my LLMD, but I read about a lot of other possibilities and wonder if I'm on the right track. Anyone else get "thrown" by it all? I try to keep a positive outlook and not look at the loss of body fat I'm experiencing. Attitude is the toughest challenge.

We all have our hurdles to overcome and with faith, you have to believe we will.      

[nutrinut_bob]

My protocol is to hit them with an herbal that is DNA/Rna inhibiting about every 6 hrs.  I've been going at them a couple years that way and have made substantial progress.  That's basically it, sometimes switching herbs, but always the herbs have that DNA/RNA inhibiting effect.  Upon occasion I mix up something that has topoisomerase inhibiting activity and every now and then herbs that restore the function of p53 tumor suppressor genes, which do more than suppress tumors.  Back to the toes, I occasionally trigger apoptosis is cells, last week it was just below the knees, all around that tendon, perhaps in it some.  Those cells of mine dieing doesn't necessarily mean the microbes inside die too.  I think that's what is down in my toes now.  These things tend to congregate at extremities, fingers, toes, eyes, any nerve ending, like those in the center of the chest.  They want to be as far away from lymph as possible, yet be able to escape into the blood stream if they have too.  I swear the things can think, their attack is not helter skelter overwhelm you, it is well planned out.

[bdonahue7]

"On and off must be a real roller coaster ride for you.  The majority of the things were going after have a doubling time of 24hrs or so.  I'm not a Dr., but I can hardly agree with such a cycle.  All that does is give the little buggers time to produce progeny that are resistant to the drugs."

Yes, I often wonder about this and will ask the Dr. her reasoning next time I see her. The more I'm on these web sites I see many conflicting treatment protocols. The Dr.'s in her office are all LLND's, go to all the conventions and seem to keep up on the latest. I this point I am so sick of second guessing everything and everyone...blablabla....may we all heal quickly:)  

[nutrinut_bob]

I was going to suggest mycoplasma, but remembered bartonella has been reclassified as a mycoplasma.  Something has been dying off in my legs, things are clearing up in my knees, lots of popping in the knees is gone, and they used to be real sensitive to pressure.  Kneeling on a bit of sand felt like a very large sharp rock.  But it appears what was inside the knees is now down in the toes, they're like yours.  A minor stub gives me pain way out of proportion the little hit they just took.  On and off must be a real roller coaster ride for you.  The majority of the things were going after have a doubling time of 24hrs or so.  I'm not a Dr., but I can hardly agree with such a cycle.  All that does is give the little buggers time to produce progeny that are resistant to the drugs.

[Ricobord]

Murphgolf,

Ditto the yellow flag for Bartonella.  "Crunchy" sounds a bit like Lyme joint issues, but Bart can make the joints hurt, too.   You been tested for Bart yet?  Anxiety is classic Bart.

bdonahue7 - I can relate on the topic of side effects when on meds and symtoms when off.  Isn't there an old saying about "They'll get you coming and going"?  Reminds me of that.  Or maybe "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" is a better phrase.  

[mojogal]

Bartonella is famous for causing foot pain. My toes get pain in them and get red sometimes but I am not sure I get the "crunchy" part.

[bdonahue7]

I've had a strange thing on my left foot where the ball will swell up and hurt like heck. It started before ABX so I don't think it's related to meds. I asked my LLND about it she said it might be lyme related or just something weird about me:) I know for me I tolerate minocycline better then doxy. Right now she has me on mino (plus 3 other abx) 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off. I know the weeks on I'm dizzy, anxious and depressed. The weeks off my mood gets better but my nero lyme/bart/babs symptoms are back. So basically, I never feel very good. I don't know it this helps you at all but in my lyme brain opinion, my foot problems are due to lyme, and minocycline make me somewhat dizzy, anxious and depressed. Hope you feel better soon!