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Diet Soda, Anyone ? (Poll)
I've been meaning to do this, but had forgotten about it (imagine that!). I had a friend whose wife had MS symptoms and none of her physicians could diagnose her. It turned out that aspartame, a sweetner that is often added to diet drinks, was responsible for her symptoms ! Aspartame apparently has been banned in Europe in children's products.
Anyhow, so here's my new poll question :
How many people here are drinking DIET sodas ?
http://www.sweetpoison.com/aspartame-side-effects.html
http://www.sweetpoison.com/articles/0706/aspartame_symptoms_submit.html --- Aspartame Symptoms Submitted to the FDA
I'm not sure now which diet drinks are still using aspartame, but if you drink diet soda... I would seriously start checking.
Anyhow, so here's my new poll question :
How many people here are drinking DIET sodas ?
http://www.sweetpoison.com/aspartame-side-effects.html
http://www.sweetpoison.com/articles/0706/aspartame_symptoms_submit.html --- Aspartame Symptoms Submitted to the FDA
I'm not sure now which diet drinks are still using aspartame, but if you drink diet soda... I would seriously start checking.
As a counterpoint, this has been widely established to be a hoax.
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/aspartame.asp
(or if that link doesn't show up, google "hoax MS aspartame.")
Also, consider that MS existed before diet soda.
I don't agrue that the long-term effects of diet soda and other products with these sweeteners on health are not clearly established (some, like sucralose, haven't been on the market long enough for us to know how the general population will react).
I decided last spring to quit all art. sweeteners, mainly becuase I think they make it harder for me to control my appetite.
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/aspartame.asp
(or if that link doesn't show up, google "hoax MS aspartame.")
Also, consider that MS existed before diet soda.
I don't agrue that the long-term effects of diet soda and other products with these sweeteners on health are not clearly established (some, like sucralose, haven't been on the market long enough for us to know how the general population will react).
I decided last spring to quit all art. sweeteners, mainly becuase I think they make it harder for me to control my appetite.
Interesting ! Well the claim on the link you listed (I love snopes.com.. btw) says, "the artificial sweetner has been proved responsible for an epidemic of cancer, brain tumors and MS." I actually agree that it has NOT been proven.
In my friend's wife's case... she had MS symptoms and after she stopped drinking diet soda (with aspartame), her symptoms had disappeared.
It appears that the controversy is still going on. I did find an article by the BBC that aspartame is not linked to cancer... but what about neurological symptoms ?
So the debate will continue. I avoid diet sodas and try to avoid sodas altogether.
I'm very glad your acquaintance was so readily able to improve her symptom load by this simple dietary modification.
It hits a nerve in me (no pun intended (-:) because I've gotten emails about this nonstop since my issues began. It's difficult when (though well-meaning) friends think all of your problems can be so easily solved.
When I did quit sweeteners in the spring, I admit I did it in part to test if I'd be lucky enough to experience any notable improvment. It didn't help my sensory symptoms to improve, however I did learn how my appetite was affected.
I also avoid all sodas (though I do somethimes get "wild" and have some seltzer).
It hits a nerve in me (no pun intended (-:) because I've gotten emails about this nonstop since my issues began. It's difficult when (though well-meaning) friends think all of your problems can be so easily solved.
When I did quit sweeteners in the spring, I admit I did it in part to test if I'd be lucky enough to experience any notable improvment. It didn't help my sensory symptoms to improve, however I did learn how my appetite was affected.
I also avoid all sodas (though I do somethimes get "wild" and have some seltzer).
Based on the snopes article, I also figure it must be a hoax. I recall the safely allowed limit is rather huge, I can't imagine anyone going over what the FDA considers the safe limit. IIRC the potential issue was over heating it until it broke down giving methanol, or something like that. Assuming the 0.1% chance that there might be something to this, I also tried quitting aspartame. I'm disappointed to say that in my case I saw zero improvement in my symptoms after I quit it. But it was low hanging fruit so I couldn't resist.
I don't know what to make of folks on the web claiming improvement. Placebo?
I don't know what to make of folks on the web claiming improvement. Placebo?
It's not a hoax. I just mentioned that my friend's wife was having MS symptoms and those symptoms stopped after drinking diet sodas with aspartame.
The e-mail that snopes.com investigated was inaccurate, but there are STILL problems with aspartame and this is why Europe has banned it in children. The snopes post had nothing to do with side effects from aspartame and MS LIKE symptoms.
From Dr. Joseph Mercola's website:
http://www.mercola.com/article/aspartame/dangers.htm
Aspartame Controversy:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy
The debate is still continuing folks !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy
The debate is still continuing folks !
Again, to counterpoint: While I'm very happy for the friend's wife, that is a single testimonial that can't be verified by anyone reading this.
Dr. Joseph Mercola is not an MD, he is a DO (he holds a doctorate in osteopathic medicine). I did a very quick search on him, and immediately found a hit for him on quackwatch.org. I am not in general familiar with him, I mention this only because he is indicated to be an expert above.
Wikipedia is written by volunteers, and the article posted about the Aspartame Controversy is flagged because its neutrality is disputed.
I'm not an MD, and I have no specific knowledge of aspartame. I just feel some of the claims and references on this thread may be unbalanced.
To each their own, and to all, be well.
Dr. Joseph Mercola is not an MD, he is a DO (he holds a doctorate in osteopathic medicine). I did a very quick search on him, and immediately found a hit for him on quackwatch.org. I am not in general familiar with him, I mention this only because he is indicated to be an expert above.
Wikipedia is written by volunteers, and the article posted about the Aspartame Controversy is flagged because its neutrality is disputed.
I'm not an MD, and I have no specific knowledge of aspartame. I just feel some of the claims and references on this thread may be unbalanced.
To each their own, and to all, be well.
I actually disagree with you... probably because Europe had banned aspartame for children and because of my friend's wife experience. The link you provided from snopes... made claims about aspartame that I did not make.
Although, Wikipedia is written by volunteers... there are sources on their website. And although Dr. Mercola is not an MD (which may be a good thing.. LOL!) he wrote a New York Times best selling book on artificial sweetners.
Interesting how Stevia is banned in Europe and yet it is on the shelves in every grocery store here in the U.S.
Want to hear something really disgusting ? Toxins in laundry detergents and air fresheners.
"The European Union recently enacted legislation requiring products to list 26 fragrance chemicals when they are present above a certain concentration in cosmetic products and detergents. No similar laws exist in the United States."
Some Sources:
http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm?id=3026&T=HEALTH&B1=EM082008F
http://health.msn.com/health-topics/cancer/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100216588
http://www.mercola.com/article/aspartame/fraud.htm
P.S. ~ I like doing research and so I was reading more information on aspartame. It looks like at some point Indonesia was trying to ban the product. It seems like in most people, it is okay. But if you exceed the average limit... then perhaps not ? In some people, it is certainly not okay (like my friend's wife).
I'm avoiding it altogether. I'm not interested in many of these "diet" products anyway. I mean... people in France don't have all of this **** in their food and they aren't as overweight as Americans. My mom was also telling me how in the '70's... American's weighed less, but ate real food (real butter, real milk... no low fat stuff).
I'm avoiding it altogether. I'm not interested in many of these "diet" products anyway. I mean... people in France don't have all of this **** in their food and they aren't as overweight as Americans. My mom was also telling me how in the '70's... American's weighed less, but ate real food (real butter, real milk... no low fat stuff).
I'm not sure with what you are disagreeing. I posed no opinion on the safety of aspartame, I just commented on your sources.
I don't know the basis of the bans in Europe, though that is surely interesting! However, that in and of itself does not prove the danger of those products.
I never tried Stevia. I actually bought a jar when I first quit art. sweeteners, thinking I'd need it, but I quickly adapted to unsweet tea.
I do appreciate all of the information you provide, and I agree that sometimes good answers are found off of the beaten path.
I don't know the basis of the bans in Europe, though that is surely interesting! However, that in and of itself does not prove the danger of those products.
I never tried Stevia. I actually bought a jar when I first quit art. sweeteners, thinking I'd need it, but I quickly adapted to unsweet tea.
I do appreciate all of the information you provide, and I agree that sometimes good answers are found off of the beaten path.
Sorry Wonko, but you’ll find Quackwatch can be just as biased as Wikipedia.
Here are a few samples taken from their page on Lyme:
“The DRUG-SEEKING BEHAVIORS OF SELF-DESCRIBED CHRONIC LYME PATIENTS and the prescribing practices of many “Lyme Literate doctors” remain at odds with published research.” (emphasis mine)
---Yeah, don’t we just love soaking in antibiotics! Me, I get a kick from the heartburn and the nausea.
“In October 2006, the Infectious Diseases Society of America published GUIDELINES FOR EFFECTIVE INTRAVENOUS (AND ORAL) ANTIBIOTIC REGIMENS to treat various manifestations of Lyme disease. Published treatment guidelines provide important navigation aids for both physicians and patients.”
---14 to 28 days of Doxy is an effective Lyme regimen, really?
“The topic of pregnancy and Lyme is also rife with rumor and unnecessary fear. A recent review of case reports and other research FOUND NO SPECIFIC PATTERNS OF FETAL MALFORMATION OR ADVERSE EVENTS IN PREGNANCY.”
---They obviously haven’t watched "Under Our Skin".
“The fact that Lyme disease is READILY CURABLE has not discouraged the formation of over a hundred support groups and nonprofit foundations.”
---Early-stage Lyme can be readily curable, not the chronic form, unfortunately.
"Chronic Lyme disease" remains the favored term of support groups and patient advocates, BUT HAS NO BASIS IN MEDICAL FACT OR PRACTICE.
----------------------
I wouldn’t be surprised to hear this nonsense was written by M. Steere and friends.
----------------------
Re aspartame: The documentary “Aspartame - Sweet Misery, A Poisoned World” is a real eye opener.
Here are a few samples taken from their page on Lyme:
“The DRUG-SEEKING BEHAVIORS OF SELF-DESCRIBED CHRONIC LYME PATIENTS and the prescribing practices of many “Lyme Literate doctors” remain at odds with published research.” (emphasis mine)
---Yeah, don’t we just love soaking in antibiotics! Me, I get a kick from the heartburn and the nausea.
“In October 2006, the Infectious Diseases Society of America published GUIDELINES FOR EFFECTIVE INTRAVENOUS (AND ORAL) ANTIBIOTIC REGIMENS to treat various manifestations of Lyme disease. Published treatment guidelines provide important navigation aids for both physicians and patients.”
---14 to 28 days of Doxy is an effective Lyme regimen, really?
“The topic of pregnancy and Lyme is also rife with rumor and unnecessary fear. A recent review of case reports and other research FOUND NO SPECIFIC PATTERNS OF FETAL MALFORMATION OR ADVERSE EVENTS IN PREGNANCY.”
---They obviously haven’t watched "Under Our Skin".
“The fact that Lyme disease is READILY CURABLE has not discouraged the formation of over a hundred support groups and nonprofit foundations.”
---Early-stage Lyme can be readily curable, not the chronic form, unfortunately.
"Chronic Lyme disease" remains the favored term of support groups and patient advocates, BUT HAS NO BASIS IN MEDICAL FACT OR PRACTICE.
----------------------
I wouldn’t be surprised to hear this nonsense was written by M. Steere and friends.
----------------------
Re aspartame: The documentary “Aspartame - Sweet Misery, A Poisoned World” is a real eye opener.
OK, the Quackwatch article was written by Dr. Edward McSweegan. Here’s what Wiki (!) has to say about him:
In 1988, McSweegan joined the National Institutes of Health's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and eventually rose to the rank of program officer for Lyme disease.[1] Beginning in 1995, he denounced on the Internet what he felt was unscientific and incorrect information about Lyme disease which was being disseminated by the NIH.[2] He criticized the Lyme Disease Foundation for putting out "wacko" theories about the disease. The NIH removed him from his post as Lyme disease program officer and transferred his research grants to other workers.
The NIH later stripped him of his post in an unrelated program and transferred those grants as well. (…)
McSweegan continued to criticize the NIH positions on Lyme disease, and the NIH suspended him for two weeks in 1997, the first step in firing him. However, the NIH's own lawyers felt there was no basis for firing him. The Lyme Disease Foundation later sued McSweegan for slander, but lost. McSweegan won a countersuit against them. Through the process, he has continued to receive positive job reviews.[2]
(…) He has also criticized the Centers for Disease Control for investigating Morgellons, a proposed infectious condition whose existence is disputed by current scientific consensus.[5]
----------------------------------
So...this is the kind of person that writes for Quackwatch. Hmmm.
In 1988, McSweegan joined the National Institutes of Health's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and eventually rose to the rank of program officer for Lyme disease.[1] Beginning in 1995, he denounced on the Internet what he felt was unscientific and incorrect information about Lyme disease which was being disseminated by the NIH.[2] He criticized the Lyme Disease Foundation for putting out "wacko" theories about the disease. The NIH removed him from his post as Lyme disease program officer and transferred his research grants to other workers.
The NIH later stripped him of his post in an unrelated program and transferred those grants as well. (…)
McSweegan continued to criticize the NIH positions on Lyme disease, and the NIH suspended him for two weeks in 1997, the first step in firing him. However, the NIH's own lawyers felt there was no basis for firing him. The Lyme Disease Foundation later sued McSweegan for slander, but lost. McSweegan won a countersuit against them. Through the process, he has continued to receive positive job reviews.[2]
(…) He has also criticized the Centers for Disease Control for investigating Morgellons, a proposed infectious condition whose existence is disputed by current scientific consensus.[5]
----------------------------------
So...this is the kind of person that writes for Quackwatch. Hmmm.
I was merely pointing out my concerns over the validity and/or authority of some of the references. I didn't say that quackwatch is a high authority. The above post cited that Dr. Joseph Mercola's website, with no explanation of who he is. I was pointing out that my 30 seconds of research on him returned negative content.
I did not further research him. The burden of proof that he is (or is not) an expert is not on my shoulders, since I did not cite him.
I feel it is important to attempt to remain objective when researching these matters. If people feel the need to criticize me for that, so be it. I stand by my counterpoints. 2nd (or 3rd) hand testimony from one patient and the web pages are not sufficient to back up any claims about aspartame.
Garbling the thread with lengthy responses off the original topic of aspartame/diet soda only further muddles the clarity of this thread.
My original reaction to the topic of the post was that it is strongly reminiscent of the urban legend discussed on snopes. Again, I got that email (or similar versions) multiple times from multiple concerned acquaintances during the very stressful time of my work-up for MS.
It was never my intent to make anyone feel attacked or defensive. Nor was I indicating that snopes, quackwatch, or other sites have the final word. Again, I was voicing my concerns over the evidence supplied in support of the argument that aspartame is unsafe.
I tend to agree with your approach.
Aspartame may well be nasty stuff, and I avoid it just as I avoid a lot of other stuff -- why put strange chemicals in your body when they have no real purpose? I used to be a Diet Coke junkie (used partly to counter my [Lyme] fatigue), but I gave it up and am glad I did.
However let's not get correlation mixed up with causality. Meaning: If I happen to oversleep on a day when it later rains, my oversleeping did not CAUSE the rain: it was a coincidence.
Neuro symptoms and aspartame or other substances may be related, but they may not be -- nobody seems to really know for sure. But why take a chance? Just say no! Life after soda is really quite fine.
I try to eat now as my grandparents did: fresh vegetables, some fruit, chicken and fish, some starches, yogurt, some cheese and milk, sometimes a little sweet. Olive oil, not bacon fat. I stay away from canned and prepared food as much as possible, and it's really not been so hard to do. To eat well, eat simply.
Therefore no aspartame, diet soda, soda, coffee, etc. I sound like a nut, perhaps, but I'm not. Just a regular person.
Aspartame may well be nasty stuff, and I avoid it just as I avoid a lot of other stuff -- why put strange chemicals in your body when they have no real purpose? I used to be a Diet Coke junkie (used partly to counter my [Lyme] fatigue), but I gave it up and am glad I did.
However let's not get correlation mixed up with causality. Meaning: If I happen to oversleep on a day when it later rains, my oversleeping did not CAUSE the rain: it was a coincidence.
Neuro symptoms and aspartame or other substances may be related, but they may not be -- nobody seems to really know for sure. But why take a chance? Just say no! Life after soda is really quite fine.
I try to eat now as my grandparents did: fresh vegetables, some fruit, chicken and fish, some starches, yogurt, some cheese and milk, sometimes a little sweet. Olive oil, not bacon fat. I stay away from canned and prepared food as much as possible, and it's really not been so hard to do. To eat well, eat simply.
Therefore no aspartame, diet soda, soda, coffee, etc. I sound like a nut, perhaps, but I'm not. Just a regular person.
I agree with your approach to diet. I'm also just a regular person, and if anything, one with bad habits! In April, I quit smoking, art. sweeteners (all of 'em), quit drinking, became a vegetarian, and worked to dramatically reduce processed foods. I also started to work out as my condition allowed (I was very sedentary before).
No one in my family history ever got what I have (at the time I wasn't thinking Lyme and was confused about what it could be). I figured one big change over the generations is how and what we eat, so like you say, I tried to eat more like my grandparents, minus meat.
I still drink some coffee in the AM. I rely on the pick me up and help concentrating. But I've had no problems with the other changes. Maybe I'll try to get off the java again (I've made previous attempts)....
No one in my family history ever got what I have (at the time I wasn't thinking Lyme and was confused about what it could be). I figured one big change over the generations is how and what we eat, so like you say, I tried to eat more like my grandparents, minus meat.
I still drink some coffee in the AM. I rely on the pick me up and help concentrating. But I've had no problems with the other changes. Maybe I'll try to get off the java again (I've made previous attempts)....
No, maybe you need the coffee. :) I'm just very very sensitive to all sorts of things (foods, meds), so a little caffeine totally wigs me out, but for others with a less touchy metabolism, I doubt caffeine hurts. (My grandparents drank coffee and tea and 'soda pop' too, but not huge amounts.) Everybody's different!
re Dr Mercola and quackwatch: I had meant to say in my previous post [but forgot! oh well!] -- I read both of those websites, and take both with a big grain of potassium chloride (instead of salt >joke<) -- I do find things Mercola says an interesting take on much of what passes as authoritative advice from the medical/nutritional establishment. It's always good to listen to all sides -- nobody is right all the time.
Happy holidays, everybody -- let's look forward to the new year with hope, and with enjoyment of the days we feel good.
re Dr Mercola and quackwatch: I had meant to say in my previous post [but forgot! oh well!] -- I read both of those websites, and take both with a big grain of potassium chloride (instead of salt >joke<) -- I do find things Mercola says an interesting take on much of what passes as authoritative advice from the medical/nutritional establishment. It's always good to listen to all sides -- nobody is right all the time.
Happy holidays, everybody -- let's look forward to the new year with hope, and with enjoyment of the days we feel good.
QuackWatch ? Gosh I can't stand that website. He even slams acupuncture, despite the fact that acupuncture has been in practice longer than western medicine and still remains in practice today.
IMO... that guy should get out of his house and try a few things before he decides to criticize them. He obviously hasn't had any experience with acupuncture before. His non-profit agency hurts people... in my opinion, but of course !
IMO... that guy should get out of his house and try a few things before he decides to criticize them. He obviously hasn't had any experience with acupuncture before. His non-profit agency hurts people... in my opinion, but of course !
All Artificial sweeteners ... look like "sugar" to the body/brain.
They trigger insulin. which has three immediate affects:
o Makes you hungry
o Makes food taste better.
o Converts glucose in your blood to fat.
Insulin is very powerful hormone that can trickle down and affect nearly everything.
See:
"The Carbohydate Addicts Healthy Heart Diet"
by Dr. Heller and Dr. Heller.
It was on the NY Best Sellers list for a long time.
They trigger insulin. which has three immediate affects:
o Makes you hungry
o Makes food taste better.
o Converts glucose in your blood to fat.
Insulin is very powerful hormone that can trickle down and affect nearly everything.
See:
"The Carbohydate Addicts Healthy Heart Diet"
by Dr. Heller and Dr. Heller.
It was on the NY Best Sellers list for a long time.
Remember saccharin ? I remember it well because if I drank a diet soda with the artificial sweetner, I would get a headache. And then investigations suggested that saccharin might be an animal carcinogen. After that, Canada banned the sweetner and the FDA had proposed a ban. Unfortunately Congress messed that one up. Sigh.
Along those lines, I definitely think the Splenda slogan is deceiving..."Made from sugar." I worry that it's spreading quickly into many products, even ones for kids, when we don't really know in the long run how it will affect people. Hopefully it is safe, but I decided to not be part of that experiment!
Thanks2, your statements help explain how art. sweeteners really triggered my appetite, thanks for adding that.
Thanks2, your statements help explain how art. sweeteners really triggered my appetite, thanks for adding that.
Unfortunatly, despite dozens of studies by top Universities... documented in
"The Carbohydrate Addicts Healthy Heart Diet"
the word has not gotten out about ARTIFICIAL SWEETENERS.
No mystery at all.
ALOT of companies make alot of money $$$$ from foods with artificial sweeteners.
(Weight Watchers sell alot of this stuff.)
No publication nor tv network wants to risk offending these people.
Also, since foods with artificial sweeters have fewer or no "calories"; people on diets and people in general still think it is OK to consume the stuff.
They don't know of it's other affects.
They don't think it will affect their weight or other health issues.
Many diabetices consume the stuff. i.e, Diet Soda, Diet Candy, Diet Cookies, and on ....
"The Carbohydrate Addicts Healthy Heart Diet"
the word has not gotten out about ARTIFICIAL SWEETENERS.
No mystery at all.
ALOT of companies make alot of money $$$$ from foods with artificial sweeteners.
(Weight Watchers sell alot of this stuff.)
No publication nor tv network wants to risk offending these people.
Also, since foods with artificial sweeters have fewer or no "calories"; people on diets and people in general still think it is OK to consume the stuff.
They don't know of it's other affects.
They don't think it will affect their weight or other health issues.
Many diabetices consume the stuff. i.e, Diet Soda, Diet Candy, Diet Cookies, and on ....
I thnk you make a good point about the money to be made from products with fake sweeteners. I've been listening to "Omnivore's dilemma" on audiobook and it sort of talks about that. Of course, the people trying to sell us food have to find ways to get us to eat more than we need, but there is a physical limit! By introducing reduced/low/no calorie options, all of the sudden that upper limit is gone, or atleast moved much higher. I suppose that aspect should be obvious, but I had not thought of it before.
So I agree, I think there is a lot of motivation to market sugar free products to keep us consuming (both food and money) all of the time.
I used to look at those products as responsible to market, since they could (in theory) help people like me who overeat maintain/lose weight. But I've changed my mind. And as mentioned above, I think diet sodas and sugarfree treats really got my appetite so out of whack that I was overall taking in more calories while using those products.
I do really miss sugarfree gum though. I don't chew any gum at all anymore, since I don't want the regular sugar gum either. But as an ex-smoker, I wish there was a good substitute!
(I know this thread has gone and taken many turns away from it's original intent, but I think PG got her general results so hopefully she doesn't mind!)
So I agree, I think there is a lot of motivation to market sugar free products to keep us consuming (both food and money) all of the time.
I used to look at those products as responsible to market, since they could (in theory) help people like me who overeat maintain/lose weight. But I've changed my mind. And as mentioned above, I think diet sodas and sugarfree treats really got my appetite so out of whack that I was overall taking in more calories while using those products.
I do really miss sugarfree gum though. I don't chew any gum at all anymore, since I don't want the regular sugar gum either. But as an ex-smoker, I wish there was a good substitute!
(I know this thread has gone and taken many turns away from it's original intent, but I think PG got her general results so hopefully she doesn't mind!)
"but I think PG got her general results so hopefully she doesn't mind!"
Why would I mind ? I don't see this as "my thread" ---- this is "our thread" ---- and I love reading members POV's... that's how we all learn.
Why would I mind ? I don't see this as "my thread" ---- this is "our thread" ---- and I love reading members POV's... that's how we all learn.
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