Aa
Herbals?? Really?
Never thought that I would ever consider the herbal route to wellness, but I may not have much of a choice as I am having a really rough time with pharmaceuticals.
Anyone know where to start? Not wanting to take a laundry list of herbal supplements, but I'm open to a few. Has anyone had any success with herbal supplements? Which one(s) would be effective towards Borriella? Bartonella? Is there ONE that surpasses all others? Three at most.
I'd appreciate any leads! Thanks!
Anyone know where to start? Not wanting to take a laundry list of herbal supplements, but I'm open to a few. Has anyone had any success with herbal supplements? Which one(s) would be effective towards Borriella? Bartonella? Is there ONE that surpasses all others? Three at most.
I'd appreciate any leads! Thanks!
Well, well... I don't know. I AM weary of herbals and always have been due to the lack of science behind them.
Pharmaceuticals are covered by insurance and herbal supplements are over priced. I haven't tried herbal supplements yet to knock it too much, but I am reluctant- mainly due to the financial expense.
Pharmaceuticals are covered by insurance and herbal supplements are over priced. I haven't tried herbal supplements yet to knock it too much, but I am reluctant- mainly due to the financial expense.
" I doubt that herbals are AS toxic as pharmaceuticals. "
They CAN be, as demonstrated by the many reports of people with Lyme (just sticking with Lyme for this forum) who have reported their bad experiences with herbs or supplements.
"There have been a number of reported cases of serious and even lethal side effects from herbal products."
http://umm.edu/health/medical/reports/articles/lyme-disease-and-related-tickborne-infections
(Since obviously not everyone who uses herbs will die from them (grin) that article shows the worst case scenario.)
***********************
From MedicineNet
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=7506
"Any conventional medication can have side effects. These side effects are described and reported after drug trials and research studies have been conducted. Side effects are further reported and evaluated after the marketing of the medication. Information about drug components, interactions, usage in pregnancy, nursing and childhood, and dosing limits are outlined and made available in standard references for doctors treating patients. Furthermore, the formulations of the drugs must satisfy strict quality control standards to ensure conformity. These medications regularly contain virtually uniform quantities and ratios of substances.
In contrast to conventional medications, unconventional treatments (such as herbs) have little or no actual scientific basis so doctors can guide their patients regarding proper usage or potential toxicity. There are no standardized references and most of the herbal formulations have not been analyzed, are not uniform, and have not been quality controlled. One batch can be very different from the next.
Moreover, even if a given herb has a known toxicity, the manufacturer may or may not warn consumers. Manufacturers are not required to alert consumers to known dangers.
The point is that these "supplements" are not sanctioned, regulated, or supervised by any agency."
Just one testimonial about one person's experience with Samento:
"Cowden Protocal to clean up anything that was left over. I simply could not do more than 1 drop of banderal/samento twice a day or I would feel the worst I felt my entire life. As soon I stopped, I felt good as new.
I experimented for about 5 months, trying different ways to go up on the drops while in school. I would end up going up by 1/4 of a drop once a day, and it was just as intense. "
But there will be people who do very well on Samento........ so...........
Sticking with Buhner is probably the best you can do if you decide to go to herbs.
They CAN be, as demonstrated by the many reports of people with Lyme (just sticking with Lyme for this forum) who have reported their bad experiences with herbs or supplements.
"There have been a number of reported cases of serious and even lethal side effects from herbal products."
http://umm.edu/health/medical/reports/articles/lyme-disease-and-related-tickborne-infections
(Since obviously not everyone who uses herbs will die from them (grin) that article shows the worst case scenario.)
***********************
From MedicineNet
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=7506
"Any conventional medication can have side effects. These side effects are described and reported after drug trials and research studies have been conducted. Side effects are further reported and evaluated after the marketing of the medication. Information about drug components, interactions, usage in pregnancy, nursing and childhood, and dosing limits are outlined and made available in standard references for doctors treating patients. Furthermore, the formulations of the drugs must satisfy strict quality control standards to ensure conformity. These medications regularly contain virtually uniform quantities and ratios of substances.
In contrast to conventional medications, unconventional treatments (such as herbs) have little or no actual scientific basis so doctors can guide their patients regarding proper usage or potential toxicity. There are no standardized references and most of the herbal formulations have not been analyzed, are not uniform, and have not been quality controlled. One batch can be very different from the next.
Moreover, even if a given herb has a known toxicity, the manufacturer may or may not warn consumers. Manufacturers are not required to alert consumers to known dangers.
The point is that these "supplements" are not sanctioned, regulated, or supervised by any agency."
Just one testimonial about one person's experience with Samento:
"Cowden Protocal to clean up anything that was left over. I simply could not do more than 1 drop of banderal/samento twice a day or I would feel the worst I felt my entire life. As soon I stopped, I felt good as new.
I experimented for about 5 months, trying different ways to go up on the drops while in school. I would end up going up by 1/4 of a drop once a day, and it was just as intense. "
But there will be people who do very well on Samento........ so...........
Sticking with Buhner is probably the best you can do if you decide to go to herbs.
If I knew I was suffering a herxheimer, I could manage. But I'm not convinced, and neither is my doctor.
Yes, I understand what you are saying. That has been my thought all along about the testing, studies, and so forth on pharmaceuticals. Not to mention anyone can whip up anything and say it's anything to make money off of it. Everytime I see that label "these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA..." that is the first thought that comes across my mind.
I doubt that herbals are AS toxic as pharmaceuticals.
I have looked into Buhner, so thanks for the lead. He does sound like he knows what he is doing.
I doubt that herbals are AS toxic as pharmaceuticals.
I have looked into Buhner, so thanks for the lead. He does sound like he knows what he is doing.
mojo said:
" I will admit that I am herxing a lot more on the herbals then I ever did on abx. To me that means they are killing the bugs."
It seems as if mojo feels that it's worth the toxicity of herbals to continue to take them.
From the Urban Dictionary:
"Pick Your Poison
What you say when someone's supposed to choose between two horrible options.
You could either chop off your toe or you can stab yourself with that piece of broken glass. Pick your poison."
I choose antibiotics because I'm a proponent of science based evidence.
" I will admit that I am herxing a lot more on the herbals then I ever did on abx. To me that means they are killing the bugs."
It seems as if mojo feels that it's worth the toxicity of herbals to continue to take them.
From the Urban Dictionary:
"Pick Your Poison
What you say when someone's supposed to choose between two horrible options.
You could either chop off your toe or you can stab yourself with that piece of broken glass. Pick your poison."
I choose antibiotics because I'm a proponent of science based evidence.
The pharmaceuticals are making me sick-er. I don't think anyone would continue to take medications that are seemingly doing more harm than good, because that's what it seems like they're doing. And I've had issues with quite a few.
I actually had to change to herbals because of my high liver enzymes. I started on Buhner, it was great because he answers your questions on FB. It was very expensive since I have Lyme and so many co-infections and he gave me a protocol for my heart failure and vision problems. I only have disability income.
My LLMD then told me to go on Cowden because he has financial aid for someone like me. In addition Dr Eva Sapi did research on 2 of his herbs and she concluded that they worked better on the Lyme then Doxycycline did. Horowitz does recommend it and Buhner recommends a few of Cowden's herbs in his new book.
I am going to go through 9 months of his program and if not better, if my liver is better I would go back on abx. I will admit that I am herxing a lot more on the herbals then I ever did on abx. To me that means they are killing the bugs.
My LLMD then told me to go on Cowden because he has financial aid for someone like me. In addition Dr Eva Sapi did research on 2 of his herbs and she concluded that they worked better on the Lyme then Doxycycline did. Horowitz does recommend it and Buhner recommends a few of Cowden's herbs in his new book.
I am going to go through 9 months of his program and if not better, if my liver is better I would go back on abx. I will admit that I am herxing a lot more on the herbals then I ever did on abx. To me that means they are killing the bugs.
(hit reply too soon)
One benefit a pharmaceutical has is it has been tested through many phases while herbs and supplements no longer are. So you're at the mercy of the seller/manufacturer of a herb/supplement for the integrity of the herb.
That's why I suggested Buhner----- I do believe that he has researched all of the drugs he suggests and (I hope) the manufacturers of them.
I'm fully aware of the pitfalls of the FDA and pharmaceuticals. They're not perfect by a long shot. But----- herbs are chemicals and they CAN be 'toxic' or have unwanted side effects.
One benefit a pharmaceutical has is it has been tested through many phases while herbs and supplements no longer are. So you're at the mercy of the seller/manufacturer of a herb/supplement for the integrity of the herb.
That's why I suggested Buhner----- I do believe that he has researched all of the drugs he suggests and (I hope) the manufacturers of them.
I'm fully aware of the pitfalls of the FDA and pharmaceuticals. They're not perfect by a long shot. But----- herbs are chemicals and they CAN be 'toxic' or have unwanted side effects.
" But I'm beginning to think pharmaceuticals are nothing except toxic chemicals. "
Every thing in the world is chemical, herbs included. (Except for a few things that don't pertain to this conversation)
Whether a herb is toxic or not depends on many things-----where herb was gathered, how processed, what other substances might be in that herb, etc etc,.
Pharmaceuticals can seem to be 'toxic' if the side effects are too extreme and exceed the benefits that might be derived from them.
Every thing in the world is chemical, herbs included. (Except for a few things that don't pertain to this conversation)
Whether a herb is toxic or not depends on many things-----where herb was gathered, how processed, what other substances might be in that herb, etc etc,.
Pharmaceuticals can seem to be 'toxic' if the side effects are too extreme and exceed the benefits that might be derived from them.
I see.
Yes, I am very apprehensive about alternative medicine. But I'm beginning to think pharmaceuticals are nothing except toxic chemicals.
I don't really know which way to go ):
Thanks for the imput!
Yes, I am very apprehensive about alternative medicine. But I'm beginning to think pharmaceuticals are nothing except toxic chemicals.
I don't really know which way to go ):
Thanks for the imput!
It's all on the Internet. Google IS your friend. (grin). I hesitate to post it because of some of the Rules on MH. Nothing says I can't 'hint' and then people who are interested can find it as easily as I did.
But how he was several years ago may not be his 'way' now and perhaps he's learned to be more careful.
But be aware that no protocol, alternative or allopathic/mainstream is without it's problems. And, yes, we all may have to 'tend to our treatment' in the hopes of getting better.
But how he was several years ago may not be his 'way' now and perhaps he's learned to be more careful.
But be aware that no protocol, alternative or allopathic/mainstream is without it's problems. And, yes, we all may have to 'tend to our treatment' in the hopes of getting better.
"Cowden's past history" what about his past history?
My LLMD actually suggested the Cowden protocol. I looked it over, and it did not take much for me to refuse. Three quarts of water a day? Plus the numerous herbal supplements. It just seemed way over my head. I don't feel well enough to deal with all of that running back and forth to empty my bladder and so on. Taking medications twice a day is enough for me. With the Cowden protocol, I would be doing nothing but tending to treatment.
My LLMD actually suggested the Cowden protocol. I looked it over, and it did not take much for me to refuse. Three quarts of water a day? Plus the numerous herbal supplements. It just seemed way over my head. I don't feel well enough to deal with all of that running back and forth to empty my bladder and so on. Taking medications twice a day is enough for me. With the Cowden protocol, I would be doing nothing but tending to treatment.
If (and that means IF) I had to take herbals I'd consider using Buhner simply because he has researched a lot of his herbs and published them.
But be aware that many of the herbs DO produce side effects too, some of them pretty harsh for some people. Plus your insurance, if you have some, won't pay for it.
Be very very careful.
Simply because of Cowden's past history I probably wouldn't consider his protocol. Does he still live in Panama?
Here is one woman's 'dissection' of the Cowden protocol along with many comments that decry her report.
http://jarla.wordpress.com/2008/11/25/dissecting-the-cowden-protocol/
I always like it when someone actually researches claims rather than believing testimonials. And a testimonial such as this one, in the comment section says to "Google Townsend Report." That's like asking the fox to watch the hen house, IMO.
But others may believe what they wish and who knows? Maybe they'll get better. And Dr. Horowitz is using the Cowden Protocol now------ so who knows?
Good luck to you, Ephreda.
But be aware that many of the herbs DO produce side effects too, some of them pretty harsh for some people. Plus your insurance, if you have some, won't pay for it.
Be very very careful.
Simply because of Cowden's past history I probably wouldn't consider his protocol. Does he still live in Panama?
Here is one woman's 'dissection' of the Cowden protocol along with many comments that decry her report.
http://jarla.wordpress.com/2008/11/25/dissecting-the-cowden-protocol/
I always like it when someone actually researches claims rather than believing testimonials. And a testimonial such as this one, in the comment section says to "Google Townsend Report." That's like asking the fox to watch the hen house, IMO.
But others may believe what they wish and who knows? Maybe they'll get better. And Dr. Horowitz is using the Cowden Protocol now------ so who knows?
Good luck to you, Ephreda.
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