circumcision is barbaric

[blueeyedboy192002]

its wrong if you ask me to circumcise a child... i got done at birth, is it not my right to make the decision myself?????
how can anyone have the right to mess with a persons body without permission...

anyone agree or disagree?

ps does anyone know if you can restore your forskin, or has anyone tried it?

[newdude]

I am personally uncircumcized, and since I live in Canada and am close to the US, I have always heard about how GREAT circumcision is, and how uncircumcized people are dirty.  Many if not most American babies are circumcized, and many cincrumcized people that I've known say that circumcision is better, if only for stupid reasons like "it makes your penis look bigger."  On the downside, it is said to decrease sensitivity of the glans penis.  It's a touchy subject, because it's a religious custom for some, and in other cases it's just thought to be "healthy."

I agree that it should be your decision - I believe that there is a group of some sort which agrees with you that circumcision is barbaric.  Go to

the-penis.com (.ca maybe or .org, sorry)

Apparently there is such a thing as "foreskin restoration," you can also look it up on Wikipedia, but if you go to "The-Penis" there is a whole page devoted to that subject, I believe it's under "Foreskin and Anatomy of the Penis" or something like that, whereupon they direct you to some other site which deals with this is great detail.

[SeriousSam]

If you wouldn't modify a baby girl surgically why would anyone say that surgically altering a baby boy is any better?

[tlh777]

yes.it is wrong.a movement to ban it in Australia,Canada,America,Norway,and Sweden are getting stronger and South Africa banned it being forced onto anyone under the age of 16.foreskin restoration works but it is slow if done manually.surgical restoration is much faster but very expensive.

http://www.cirp.org/pages/restore.html

http://www.psurg.com/fskin.html

http://www.mgmbill.org/

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/12/09/2113665.htm

[newdude]

I don't know, SeriousSam, but they do.

[newdude]

I've met many people who think it's a good idea, more than those who are against it, I personally am ambivalent.  I wouldn't expect people of Jewish ethnicity to stop doing it any time soon...

[blueeyedboy192002]

as mentioned have no issue with circumcision, just have an issue that the decision is made by parents, they have no right to alter a baby without the baby's permission. even for religous purposes, what if that baby wants to be another religion??

i just don't understand why the hell anyone would go butcher a baby (unless for medical reasons of course)

thanks for the sites though, i have looked into many things, i can't afford anything right now, don't even have a job as i can't work due to a hernia how fun!!!!

[newdude]

No, it seems weird to me too... my ambivalence is mostly due to my not having been circ.d.  But you'd be surprised, perhaps, with the American attitude towards it.  You hear in movies & stuff, for instance, the movie "Hostel," a pretty stupid but entertaining horror movie about some American kids who go on a trip to Europe looking to get laid.  They meet up with this dude from Iceland, and there is a scene where they're all in a sauna and Mr Iceland takes off his towel, and one of the Americans say, "No, I'm AMERICAN, unlike him, I was circumcized at birth... for reasons of hygiene."  It is a very common attitude down there, and I think something like more than 50% of Americans are circumcized... in porn movies, too, everyone is circumcized...

[marra315]

hi guys i agree it should be a personal or medical option really . it is not  even any more hygenic as long as its cleaned well either way ,and to be fair porn stars only bother because they think it looks bigger ! we dont circ here unless necassary but i do know people who had it done for phimosis and curvature . but as a religous option i think it should be left to the child if they choose to . x x

[SeriousSam]

I'm circumcised and quite honestly I would love to give the doctor who did it a piece of my mind.  The only plus I've seen is you last longer but quite honestly after a couple of hours your just doing technique, your partner has done whatever she's going to do and drying up...

From what I think it's barbaric and horrible to due to a person and I think it's a way to maim, brutalize and symbolically take the virginity and innocence of young boys.  The religious argument doesn't evev hold for Jewish circomcision because originally they just took the tip of the foreskin!

[SeriousSam]

Sorry for the grammatical errors I try to do some father/children's rights work and this is a topic that p!sses me of a lot.

[newdude]

Hmm... this is interesting to hear these opinions.  As I said, I have only ever heard good things about circumcision, and have often been made to feel weird and bad (when I was younger) among people who were circumcized.  Most of the males in my family were circumcized, too, and I almost was when I was about 10, put kicked up such a fuss at the though of them cutting me that they backed off.

[crazywillie]

No good complaing about being being cut, when is gone its gone.
Yep I lost my foreskin at birth, not much I can do about it now.
Like most people that have been cut I wish I had not have been.
Like most that have had sores and smelly stuff under the forskin they wish they had have been.

Its like I have a big one or I have a small one debate, we got what we got. just be happy we got something.

[skunkcabbage31]

i've got a better question for you all: WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH? its not like having/not having your foreskin is going to seriously alter your ability to have sex, cause descrimination or inhibit you from living a normal life. i mean, i'm circumsized, and its not barbaric at all. its not like they drag it out, and try to inflict as much suffering as they possibly can!
the foreskin has no major purpose to the body, so why villainize people who have it removed, when it has no major benefits in the first place?! its like the appendix! if what you're all saying is true, then u have to outlaw the removal of the appendix, even if it starts to rupture!
and in case u've got any questions on the American perspective of things, you can feel free to ask me; i'm one afterall, and i'd be happy to enlighten you on why we Americans do the crazy things we do.

[SeriousSam]

Actually it's pretty much established now that the appendix is not vestigial, and is part of the immunological system.

As to the American perspective on why we do things? Is it because we are over all in love with religion, under educated, inflicted with more opinions than ethics as a country etc? just a  thought.

The foreskin has a very real purpose in protecting the glans, and preserving sensitivity!

[crazywillie]

If you havent got a foreskin you dont miss it, seems there are thousands of young African male babies getting circumcised in an effort to reduce HIV, they have found out that men that have not been circumcised are more prone to recieving the HIV virus.

[SeriousSam]

Only slightly more prone.  Those are also people in a country with a scarcity of water, limited birth control (prophylactic use), and the belief that having sex with a virgin cures you of STD's.  In other words you are quoting the exception, not the norm.

[crazywillie]

Its norm enough to know that there is a risk and maybe, just maybe its best to be cut.

[SeriousSam]

And the increased cancer risks in circumcised males?

[Trialanderror]

I absolutely agree with you. I usually get shot down on the child related forums for voicing my opinion that a baby boy is to be protected from all this butchering until he can make his own decision. There is a whole history behind why circumcision is so common still in North America. It goes back to the Victorian ages when it was to prevent early masturbation and since that has not been a good argument anymore this century, hygienic reasons, possible phimosis and possible cervial cancer of the partner were all dug up as medical b.s. indications. It`s a huge money maker, those circumcisions. But even the Association of Pediatrics has revised their earlier statements and advises against ROUTINE circumcision. So the main reason it is still happening here is that parents are uneducated and doctors rather perform some surgery than not. I am always appalled when mothers still think that circumcision is an automatic procedure after their boy is born, like getting a hair cut or something harmless. Or if dads demand their baby sons should look like them. Ouch. Madness. Anyway, there is a group called nocirc - we can't advertise here - so just add the www and the .com. Check them out - I am in contact with one of their founders once in a while. They are UK based. And they provide lots of information and contacts, even regarding restoration of foreskin. When someone goes through foreskin restoration, the main thing is usually that he wants the nerves and the feeling back in that area. Whether it can be done depends on how much was removed during circumcision. I`m not a guy but I heard that the saddest part of circumcision is that the man loses a lot of sensation as there are so many nerve endings. Of course if it is all done in infancy, men would never know the difference. So go ahead and look up that website.

[Trialanderror]

I just have to add this one for fun: There`s a movie named "Fargo". In it two young females, the ex-cheerleader type, are questioned by police whether they can give a description of two suspects they hooked up with in a motel room. One girl says: "One looked like... and the other one was kind of funny looking." Police woman: "What do you mean by that?" Girl: "Kinda funny, you know. He wasn`t circumcized."  Yep, madness is everywhere....

[newdude]

That Fargo example is a another perfect example of the American attitude towards circumcision, note how the police detective says, "Anything else funny looking about him?  I mean apart from being uncircumcized."  Very funny flick, too, I just saw it a few nights ago again.  Yeah?  Oh, gosh yeah...

[skunkcabbage31]

but whats all the hostitlity towards it about? (1) it doesn't make a major difference whether you have your foreskin or not (2) any so-called "researched" links between circumcision and cancer or AIDs is a bunch of bologna, and (3) parents are usually the ones who make the decision, so why is it their fault? my father had me circumsized so i looked the same as him, and there were no odd questions that had to be answered until i was of the right age. that seems like a legitimate reasons, for me

[newdude]

Well, I personally am ambivalent, as stated above; Blueeyedboy and SeriousSam, on the other hand, seem to have issues with it: they both claim to have lost sensitivity, and wish they had it back.  Both seem to be pretty passionately against it as a common practice.

[blueeyedboy192002]

for starters anyone who says that the forskin holds no use, then why the hell are we born with it, if its a harmless piece of skin then why chop it off.

as mentioned like apendix, it was actually used during the dark ages when we ate meat raw, it provided an enzime to break the food down, as we now cook our meat its no longer used and can get blocked and infected hence requiring an operation, but do we chop babies open at birth to cut it out?? i think not, that would be un-required surgery, and what about our tonsils, why not chop them out too, and our ears, ok so ears are great and used as a kind of radar for sounds but like the forskin its a useless bit of skin if we only lose a bit of sensativity in our penis or sound in our hearing.

you say why worry about it, i am not worried about it there is nothing i can do, i just feel violated that my rights as a human have been tampered with, if its a situation that is out of my controll or i get myself into then its my own fault, but to go doing things like that to babies before they even know whats going on is wrong.

as for hygene, if someone has a smelly crusty or disgusting penis, try washing it....

as for the reduction of HIV in povery countries, yes it is proven that circumcision is helpfull for the reduction of STD's, but as mentioned before these are poor countries with no birth controll, if we as humans in semi welll off countries can not controll our own sex drive and the spread of disease then maybe we should not be allowed to have sex.....

circumcision is great for those that love it and agree with it, as mentioned before i have no issues if it was for medical purposes or if you decide to have it done.

i don't belive that enough people get their penis's checked enough for tight forskin etc etc, i was always under the impression that boys of 13/14 always got checked who were not cut, would make more sense to educate them to look after themselves wouldn't it......

that way people could be normal and not have their bodies tampered with without their permission....