Aa
Ms and mental illness
Hi all,
I'm wondering if there are any connections with ms and mental illness. It seems a " Tabu" subject as it seems under reported. People are embarrassed most likely , or don't want to talk about it.
Well.. I have had 3 separate episodes of irrational thoughts along with lightheartedness, usually a slight headache or a slight numbness that feels "internal " within my head. Having these internal dialogues with myself. Trying to calm myself down from becoming too panicky while feeling these strange emotions.
Ie: I was having lunch with a friend. It was a bit hot, and I was just coming off of a relapse. ( bladder). Then it started. I left to go home , I'm driving, and thoughts such as.. Oh.. Just drive off the road. " and then myself saying.. Stop . This is ridiculous. This is just a corky symptom. Don' let it get to you. If say this lasted approx an hour or so.
One other time was more recent. I was really tired. Went to lie down. I feel like I was hallucinating, feeling like I was on the floor. When I wasn't. Hearing noises and feeling like my husband was rocking the bed. But wasn't. Eventually drifted to sleep. Scary, I have an appt to talk to my doc about this but wanted any insights that may be out there. I know one of the larger lesions is within my frontal lobe. Not sure what can be done with this type of symptom. Unless this is just overall anxiety?? I also wasn't exersising at all. I was re doing our house. Wondering if there's a connection there. Anyway. I just want people to feel comfortable talking about this type of thing. It's scary acing a disease we don't understand. These support groups are essential. Thank you all. As always.
Andi
I'm wondering if there are any connections with ms and mental illness. It seems a " Tabu" subject as it seems under reported. People are embarrassed most likely , or don't want to talk about it.
Well.. I have had 3 separate episodes of irrational thoughts along with lightheartedness, usually a slight headache or a slight numbness that feels "internal " within my head. Having these internal dialogues with myself. Trying to calm myself down from becoming too panicky while feeling these strange emotions.
Ie: I was having lunch with a friend. It was a bit hot, and I was just coming off of a relapse. ( bladder). Then it started. I left to go home , I'm driving, and thoughts such as.. Oh.. Just drive off the road. " and then myself saying.. Stop . This is ridiculous. This is just a corky symptom. Don' let it get to you. If say this lasted approx an hour or so.
One other time was more recent. I was really tired. Went to lie down. I feel like I was hallucinating, feeling like I was on the floor. When I wasn't. Hearing noises and feeling like my husband was rocking the bed. But wasn't. Eventually drifted to sleep. Scary, I have an appt to talk to my doc about this but wanted any insights that may be out there. I know one of the larger lesions is within my frontal lobe. Not sure what can be done with this type of symptom. Unless this is just overall anxiety?? I also wasn't exersising at all. I was re doing our house. Wondering if there's a connection there. Anyway. I just want people to feel comfortable talking about this type of thing. It's scary acing a disease we don't understand. These support groups are essential. Thank you all. As always.
Andi
COMMUNITY LEADER
There is definitely enough mental health research, to support taking the 'correct' M/H medication (and dosage) can significantly benefit a patients mental health and taking the 'wrong' medication (and dosage) can significantly worsen a patients mental health situation.......interesting to note, 'medications' for non psychiatric conditions can also negatively/positively affect mental health, as can the type of food and beverages we consume, environment (visual-audio-toxicity etc), behavioural etc etc etc
No, they're not rewiring, that's basically what cognitive behavioural training (CBT), counselling, talk therapy, self awareness etc is all about, mental health treatment is generally multi faceted, more than just medication. For anxiety disorders CBT is generally the first line treatment, CBT has a lasting positive affect, where as pharmaceutical treatments alone is dependant on the continuation of the medication, combined (therapy + medication) does actually have the better long term results though.
There are different classes of medications used to treat anxiety, the different classes of meds target different issues, SSRI's for example are suppose to work by multiplying the signal activity between the neurons that uses the chemical 'serotonin' to communicate with each other.
Psychiatrists will actually often prescribe Neurontin (gabapentin) to treat anxiety, the presumption being that it works like benzodiazepines, which directly affects neurons that use a chemical called GABA to communicate with each other, the thing is though they don't actually know how gabapentin works.....which is kind of interesting, if you consider it's very commonly prescribed to MSers (not for anxiety) hmmmmmm maybe the altered MS neural circuitry can cause more of an opposite affect, as can happen with some of the other neurological conditions and meds....
If you think of anxiety as being varying levels of worry about something that 'might happen at sometime' and panic attacks as being an intense episode of fear that something terrible is 'happening right now'. Panic attacks can be situational eg public speaking, social situations etc removal from the situation will lower the feelings generated but it can often lead to total avoidance and creating a more problematic phobia trigger.
Panic attacks can also be unexpected, but whilst they seem like they happen spontaneously, typically there is an underlying anxiety issue going on with the individual, either acknowledged or not, preceding the actual panic attack. Unexpected panic attacks are actually thought to be predominately driven by fear that is sparked by certain bodily sensations that is then misinterpret as more meaningful.
It's not hard to understand why someone experiencing a panic attack, could mistakenly believe they are actually experiencing a catastrophic physical or psychiatric event, when you look at the common physical symptoms of a panic attack. One of the key components with anxiety is actually understanding your individual early warning signs and behavioural triggers, and through CBT learning specific techniques to alter your thoughts and behaviours before it escalates further.......I will always highly recommend CBT cause it truly does help to learn how to shut your panic attacks down!
Cheers.........JJ There is definitely enough mental health research, to support taking the 'correct' M/H medication (and dosage) can significantly benefit a patients mental health and taking the 'wrong' medication (and dosage) can significantly worsen a patients mental health situation.......interesting to note, 'medications' for non psychiatric conditions can also negatively/positively affect mental health, as can the type of food and beverages we consume, environment (visual-audio-toxicity etc), behavioural etc etc etc
No, they're not rewiring, that's basically what cognitive behavioural training (CBT), counselling, talk therapy, self awareness etc is all about, mental health treatment is generally multi faceted, more than just medication. For anxiety disorders CBT is generally the first line treatment, CBT has a lasting positive affect, where as pharmaceutical treatments alone is dependant on the continuation of the medication, combined (therapy + medication) does actually have the better long term results though.
There are different classes of medications used to treat anxiety, the different classes of meds target different issues, SSRI's for example are suppose to work by multiplying the signal activity between the neurons that uses the chemical 'serotonin' to communicate with each other.
Psychiatrists will actually often prescribe Neurontin (gabapentin) to treat anxiety, the presumption being that it works like benzodiazepines, which directly affects neurons that use a chemical called GABA to communicate with each other, the thing is though they don't actually know how gabapentin works.....which is kind of interesting, if you consider it's very commonly prescribed to MSers (not for anxiety) hmmmmmm maybe the altered MS neural circuitry can cause more of an opposite affect, as can happen with some of the other neurological conditions and meds....
If you think of anxiety as being varying levels of worry about something that 'might happen at sometime' and panic attacks as being an intense episode of fear that something terrible is 'happening right now'. Panic attacks can be situational eg public speaking, social situations etc removal from the situation will lower the feelings generated but it can often lead to total avoidance and creating a more problematic phobia trigger.
Panic attacks can also be unexpected, but whilst they seem like they happen spontaneously, typically there is an underlying anxiety issue going on with the individual, either acknowledged or not, preceding the actual panic attack. Unexpected panic attacks are actually thought to be predominately driven by fear that is sparked by certain bodily sensations that is then misinterpret as more meaningful.
It's not hard to understand why someone experiencing a panic attack, could mistakenly believe they are actually experiencing a catastrophic physical or psychiatric event, when you look at the common physical symptoms of a panic attack. One of the key components with anxiety is actually understanding your individual early warning signs and behavioural triggers, and through CBT learning specific techniques to alter your thoughts and behaviours before it escalates further.......I will always highly recommend CBT cause it truly does help to learn how to shut escalating anxiety and or panic attacks down!
Cheers.........JJ
No, they're not rewiring, that's basically what cognitive behavioural training (CBT), counselling, talk therapy, self awareness etc is all about, mental health treatment is generally multi faceted, more than just medication. For anxiety disorders CBT is generally the first line treatment, CBT has a lasting positive affect, where as pharmaceutical treatments alone is dependant on the continuation of the medication, combined (therapy + medication) does actually have the better long term results though.
There are different classes of medications used to treat anxiety, the different classes of meds target different issues, SSRI's for example are suppose to work by multiplying the signal activity between the neurons that uses the chemical 'serotonin' to communicate with each other.
Psychiatrists will actually often prescribe Neurontin (gabapentin) to treat anxiety, the presumption being that it works like benzodiazepines, which directly affects neurons that use a chemical called GABA to communicate with each other, the thing is though they don't actually know how gabapentin works.....which is kind of interesting, if you consider it's very commonly prescribed to MSers (not for anxiety) hmmmmmm maybe the altered MS neural circuitry can cause more of an opposite affect, as can happen with some of the other neurological conditions and meds....
If you think of anxiety as being varying levels of worry about something that 'might happen at sometime' and panic attacks as being an intense episode of fear that something terrible is 'happening right now'. Panic attacks can be situational eg public speaking, social situations etc removal from the situation will lower the feelings generated but it can often lead to total avoidance and creating a more problematic phobia trigger.
Panic attacks can also be unexpected, but whilst they seem like they happen spontaneously, typically there is an underlying anxiety issue going on with the individual, either acknowledged or not, preceding the actual panic attack. Unexpected panic attacks are actually thought to be predominately driven by fear that is sparked by certain bodily sensations that is then misinterpret as more meaningful.
It's not hard to understand why someone experiencing a panic attack, could mistakenly believe they are actually experiencing a catastrophic physical or psychiatric event, when you look at the common physical symptoms of a panic attack. One of the key components with anxiety is actually understanding your individual early warning signs and behavioural triggers, and through CBT learning specific techniques to alter your thoughts and behaviours before it escalates further.......I will always highly recommend CBT cause it truly does help to learn how to shut your panic attacks down!
Cheers.........JJ There is definitely enough mental health research, to support taking the 'correct' M/H medication (and dosage) can significantly benefit a patients mental health and taking the 'wrong' medication (and dosage) can significantly worsen a patients mental health situation.......interesting to note, 'medications' for non psychiatric conditions can also negatively/positively affect mental health, as can the type of food and beverages we consume, environment (visual-audio-toxicity etc), behavioural etc etc etc
No, they're not rewiring, that's basically what cognitive behavioural training (CBT), counselling, talk therapy, self awareness etc is all about, mental health treatment is generally multi faceted, more than just medication. For anxiety disorders CBT is generally the first line treatment, CBT has a lasting positive affect, where as pharmaceutical treatments alone is dependant on the continuation of the medication, combined (therapy + medication) does actually have the better long term results though.
There are different classes of medications used to treat anxiety, the different classes of meds target different issues, SSRI's for example are suppose to work by multiplying the signal activity between the neurons that uses the chemical 'serotonin' to communicate with each other.
Psychiatrists will actually often prescribe Neurontin (gabapentin) to treat anxiety, the presumption being that it works like benzodiazepines, which directly affects neurons that use a chemical called GABA to communicate with each other, the thing is though they don't actually know how gabapentin works.....which is kind of interesting, if you consider it's very commonly prescribed to MSers (not for anxiety) hmmmmmm maybe the altered MS neural circuitry can cause more of an opposite affect, as can happen with some of the other neurological conditions and meds....
If you think of anxiety as being varying levels of worry about something that 'might happen at sometime' and panic attacks as being an intense episode of fear that something terrible is 'happening right now'. Panic attacks can be situational eg public speaking, social situations etc removal from the situation will lower the feelings generated but it can often lead to total avoidance and creating a more problematic phobia trigger.
Panic attacks can also be unexpected, but whilst they seem like they happen spontaneously, typically there is an underlying anxiety issue going on with the individual, either acknowledged or not, preceding the actual panic attack. Unexpected panic attacks are actually thought to be predominately driven by fear that is sparked by certain bodily sensations that is then misinterpret as more meaningful.
It's not hard to understand why someone experiencing a panic attack, could mistakenly believe they are actually experiencing a catastrophic physical or psychiatric event, when you look at the common physical symptoms of a panic attack. One of the key components with anxiety is actually understanding your individual early warning signs and behavioural triggers, and through CBT learning specific techniques to alter your thoughts and behaviours before it escalates further.......I will always highly recommend CBT cause it truly does help to learn how to shut escalating anxiety and or panic attacks down!
Cheers.........JJ
Jj..ess .. You are so full of information . Such a blessing to have all of you here. This is such a complicated issue. Jj , I do have anxiety. Always have. No stranger to panic attacks. What will be interesting.. Is now what. Do I treat as if I have daily anxiety. ? Well I don't. Do I take something to relax me as things are happening? Assuming it happens again?
It's long been said mental illness is a brain chemistry imbalance. But I wonder. the meds provided seem to help those with anxiety- depression., why? If not re balancing. Then what are they doing? Certainly not re wiring ? What do you think?
It's long been said mental illness is a brain chemistry imbalance. But I wonder. the meds provided seem to help those with anxiety- depression., why? If not re balancing. Then what are they doing? Certainly not re wiring ? What do you think?
COMMUNITY LEADER
I had a look at that article but it was way short on providing any details, I did find another partial copy though unfortunately it too was lacking.....
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/6454622_The_Differential_Diagnosis_of_Multiple_Sclerosis
What i did notice from the part i did get to read, they seem to be drawing this conclusion, at least in part from data collected from the REFERRAL's to 3 MS clinics, this wouldn't typically be misdiagnosis stats but the totality of those 'referred' to the MS clinics who they did not diagnose with MS. One of which dated from 1979-1983 and pre MRI's, interestingly they also reported the lowest referred rate who had a psychiatric condition Dalhousie 14 ((27%) , Colorado 63 (45%), Marshfeild 53 (76%)
I've tried to find others but so far not finding anything that would support the conclusion that that particular study did.....
Still looking..........JJ
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/6454622_The_Differential_Diagnosis_of_Multiple_Sclerosis
What i did notice from the part i did get to read, they seem to be drawing this conclusion, at least in part from data collected from the REFERRAL's to 3 MS clinics, this wouldn't typically be misdiagnosis stats but the totality of those 'referred' to the MS clinics who they did not diagnose with MS. One of which dated from 1979-1983 and pre MRI's, interestingly they also reported the lowest referred rate who had a psychiatric condition Dalhousie 14 ((27%) , Colorado 63 (45%), Marshfeild 53 (76%)
I've tried to find others but so far not finding anything that would support the conclusion that that particular study did.....
Still looking..........JJ
Hi, Andipw3! I'm glad that you're going to be able to talk with your doctor about these episodes. I hope you'll be able to speak with a psychiatrist and/or psychotherapist, as they may have ideas on how to manage these episodes or even address their root causes before they happen. Have you told any loved ones or friends about your episodes? Would you feel comfortable letting someone know so that you can reach out to them or they can check in on you occasionally?
One note I'd also like to make is that sometimes psychiatric disorders are misdiagnosed as multiple sclerosis. Perhaps this is something you can speak with your neurologist about. Here is an example of a study supporting this point that you may want to show to your doctor: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17351525
One note I'd also like to make is that sometimes psychiatric disorders are misdiagnosed as multiple sclerosis. Perhaps this is something you can speak with your neurologist about. Here is an example of a study supporting this point that you may want to show to your doctor: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17351525
COMMUNITY LEADER
I have long disagreed with the theory of mental health disorders being caused by a chemical imbalance, and steadfastly held on to the theory behind brain plasticity, today the evidence is mounting that mental health is caused by the brains neural development and or neural deterioration.......
"While the neuroscience discoveries are coming fast and furious, one thing we can say already is that earlier notions of mental disorders as chemical imbalances or as social constructs are beginning to look antiquated. Much of what we are learning about the neural basis of mental illness is not yet ready for the clinic, but there can be little doubt that clinical neuroscience will soon be helping people with mental disorders to recover."
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/about/director/2011/mental-illness-defined-as-disruption-in-neural-circuits.shtml
ADHD, ASD, OCD, Dyslexia, Bipolar, Anorexia, PSTD, anxiety, major depressive disorders etc are generally understood to have varying complex combinations of cognitive and psychiatric components, and whilst the historical focus has been on rebalancing the chemicals within specific parts of the brain that are improperly balanced......research is actually proving that these conditions demonstrate abnormal neural circuitry.
Basically the brains neural wiring is faulty either developmentally or degeneratively, which will go a long way towards understanding why cognitive behavioural therapy (uses brain plasticity principals) makes a significant difference with many conditions that never were thought to be neurological...
Food for thought..........JJ
btw if anyone's interested, recent HFA/Asperger research is finding repetitive cognitive training may actually be detrimental to those with higher functioning ASD, due to the repetition inadvertently compounding their inability to neurologically adapt to repetitively trained visual expectations.
"While the neuroscience discoveries are coming fast and furious, one thing we can say already is that earlier notions of mental disorders as chemical imbalances or as social constructs are beginning to look antiquated. Much of what we are learning about the neural basis of mental illness is not yet ready for the clinic, but there can be little doubt that clinical neuroscience will soon be helping people with mental disorders to recover."
http://www.nimh.nih.gov/about/director/2011/mental-illness-defined-as-disruption-in-neural-circuits.shtml
ADHD, ASD, OCD, Dyslexia, Bipolar, Anorexia, PSTD, anxiety, major depressive disorders etc are generally understood to have varying complex combinations of cognitive and psychiatric components, and whilst the historical focus has been on rebalancing the chemicals within specific parts of the brain that are improperly balanced......research is actually proving that these conditions demonstrate abnormal neural circuitry.
Basically the brains neural wiring is faulty either developmentally or degeneratively, which will go a long way towards understanding why cognitive behavioural therapy (uses brain plasticity principals) makes a significant difference with many conditions that never were thought to be neurological...
Food for thought..........JJ
btw if anyone's interested, recent HFA/Asperger research is finding repetitive cognitive training may actually be detrimental to those with higher functioning ASD, due to the repetition inadvertently compounding their inability to neurologically adapt to repetitively trained visual expectations.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I believe the first 2 incidents you mention could still fit a mild anxiety attack, your internal dialogue was 'challenging' the negative thoughts that were popping into your mind, and basically talking your self down from a full panic attack. Being brief enough to be your self again not long afterwards and your wording, suggests to me that your fatigue, self esteem, stress, frustration levels etc were likely exacerbating your anxiety and wouldn't in general be outside of anxiety...
The 3rd whilst you were also fatigued, is the type of situation that doesn't typically fit with anxiety because it involved audio and physical hallucinations, any situation that makes you unable to comprehend reality should definitely be cause for concern!
BUT before becoming really anxious that this type of isolated incident, could only be caused by a more serious type of mental health issue or symptomatic of more MS lesion damage, you need to keep in mind that psychotic issues are 'rare' (1-3%) in MS and theoretically it's more likely this situation was to do with your level of sleep deprivation, migraine, medication, dehydration, state of your mental health at the time etc and or the combination of....
Hugs........JJ
The 3rd whilst you were also fatigued, is the type of situation that doesn't typically fit with anxiety because it involved audio and physical hallucinations, any situation that makes you unable to comprehend reality should definitely be cause for concern!
BUT before becoming really anxious that this type of isolated incident, could only be caused by a more serious type of mental health issue or symptomatic of more MS lesion damage, you need to keep in mind that psychotic issues are 'rare' (1-3%) in MS and theoretically it's more likely this situation was to do with your level of sleep deprivation, migraine, medication, dehydration, state of your mental health at the time etc and or the combination of....
Hugs........JJ
You are reading content posted in the Multiple Sclerosis Community
Top Neurology Answerers
Australia
ON
Queensland, Australia
Queen Creek, AZ
Find out how beta-blocker eye drops show promising results for acute migraine relief.
In this special Missouri Medicine report, doctors examine advances in diagnosis and treatment of this devastating and costly neurodegenerative disease.
Here are 12 simple – and fun! – ways to boost your brainpower.
Discover some of the causes of dizziness and how to treat it.
Discover the common causes of headaches and how to treat headache pain.
Two of the largest studies on Alzheimer’s have yielded new clues about the disease
