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12832842 tn?1448728801

Ms lesion specific? Treat with just diet?


My name is andrea. In my research I see you on many threads. You seem very informed and helpful.
I was just diagnosed with MS a couple of days ago. I'm still trying to let it resignate.
I seem to be on the mild side of things. I'm no stranger to headaches/ hormonal migraines. What set things off was that in addition to a case of optical neuritis, fatigue, sometimes my toes curling, occasional twitches, light headedness.
I'm not one to run to the doc whenever I don't feel well, but this seemed different and I felt something was going on. I was under a lot of stress with a funeral, and tried to push it off to stress. However , the suggestion of an MRI was given by my Opthomologist. So.. I did. Through my GP. Showed "scattered lesions" and I think demylation . One lesion enhanced.So off I went to an MS neurologist.
I have a dr.  as a MS neurologist . Excellent credentials. He ran Another brain MRI with the spinal MRI. Using the T3 . Compared 1 st MRI of the brain. Showed an additional ( albeit small) enhanced lesion. Spinal was negative.
First of all.. Could it be anything else? (Prob not. ) What terrifies me are the meds. I can't do it. It gives me such anxiety to put such brutal drugs in me that have such awful side effects. I feel fine except occasionally fatigued.  I just today noticed a little numbness in my right finger. But pretty much gone now?! Weird since I don't have spinal lesions right? The brain doesn't control the arms/ legs/ torso? Being things are so mild, and I'm turning 46 this year,
I want to manage this with a paleo type diet/ vitamins/ excercise/ stress reduction. Isn't it possible with reducing food items that can cause inflamation prevent progression as well? Has there been any success stories with a more natural approach?
I'm really struggling and I meet with the neurologist in 2 weeks. He of course wants to treat. He's very sweet, but I know he's pro drugs. Like most doctors.
Any advise?
Thx so much.
- andi
16 Responses
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12832842 tn?1448728801
Thank you Kyle! As always.  These words of encouragement help. I think I need to get on board w/ a clear plan, it's just accumulating enough info to get it right. For me,
Helpful - 0
1831849 tn?1383228392
Hi Andi - You have gotten lots of good info here.

To DMD or not to DMD, that is the very personal question. We all have to make our own choices.

As you make yours keep in mind that you can't assume you will have side effects from meds. That I mighttt does not mean that you will. And while you are weighing the pros and cons of DMDs keep in mind that MS is a progressive disease. 85% of people diagnosed with RRMS will move to SPMS at some point. DMD's may help move you towards the other 15%...

Kyle
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12832842 tn?1448728801
Thank you doublevision1!
I look up the drugs and indication online and panic. There's pages of possible side effects, that, and testimonials of those that feel more awful on them than the ms symptoms themselves. So I get scared. I have a pretty sensitive system and seem to fall into that category of getting all that would come my way w/ side effects. I am 45 turning 46 in September and have not ever taken any meds for anything. So this is really a struggle for me.
Why I'm curious, would the  copaxone stop working? Aren't these drugs proven to stop progression?
I'm coming to terms w/ all,of this slowly.. But surely.
By the way.. I've been having off and on some soreness along my jaw . Kindle that try genial nerve. Bilaterally. I read only 3 percent of ms get this. What could this mean for me,?
I get scared easily. As you all prob picked up on.
All my symptoms in fact, go off and on.
Thx for your help.. As always!!
Helpful - 0
382218 tn?1341181487
Early treatment is important because permanent nerve damage can occur early in the disease process. DMDs offer the best hope for delaying this damage. Even when symptoms are mild, researchers have found that damage can be happening quietly behind the scenes, which may only become apparent after it's too late to do anything about it. In fact, by being diagnosed while your symptoms are still mild, you have a golden opportunity that many wish they'd had, those who suffered years of accumulating permanent disability before they finally had a diagnosis.

I'm curious how you came to believe that MS drugs are brutal, awful and terrifying? I ask because these thoughts have never occurred to me. I've been on three MS drugs. Rebif elevated my liver enzymes, an uncommon side effect, so after a short trial I discontinued. No harm done. I was then on Copaxone for several years with a dramatic reduction in frequency and severity of relapses. In other words, it did exactly what it's supposed to do. No side effects other than temporary injection site swelling. Last year I switched to Gilenya as I'd had a couple of mild relapses and changes to my MRI. Have been on it 8 months, no relapses so far, no side effects whatsoever after the mild headache during the first week subsided.

Only you can decide which path to take. But I urge you to make the decision based on facts, evidence and research....not hype, fear mongering, and conspiracy theories about pharma and greedy doctors.

Oh, and it need not be a choice between medication or good nutrition....you can always (and in my opinion, should) do both.
Helpful - 0
12832842 tn?1448728801
Well. You certainly are helpful!!!! I'm so humbled you'd take the time to answer all of these rambles of mine. I Think I'm walking the fine line of denial and reality. It's just hard being on the milder side of symptoms compared to what I read, and concluding I have this. For life.
I'm going to do just that. Write it all out and spend some time w/ the doctor. I want to trust him.. But there are skeptics in my ear ( people) who think oh.. He's an ms doc.. Of course you'll have it. More $ for him and the drug companies.
Puts such doubt in a person.
Thx again for all your help. It's so helpful to have you here.
Thank you!
Andi
Helpful - 0
987762 tn?1671273328
COMMUNITY LEADER
I'm going to do my best to cover all your questions but First i want you to keep in mind what i mentioned, which is the psychological aspect! For this moment in time take one giant step back, put all these spinning emotional thoughts on a back shelf and just clear your head and breath.......

"It is a " true tale" if you will. Now maybe there's something more to it. I do know he was in bad shape and is now doing great off the meds. Maybe the drug worked do well he was able to get off."

Q: I'd that possible with ms medication?
A: On the premise that the DMD's any MSer might be taking is capable of working so well that they can go into a kind of remission, sorry that would be no MS medication doesn't do that. MS isn't the same as diseases which you can recover from and no longer have!

Try thinking of MS as being more like 'type 1 diabetes', type 1 diabetes is for life and they didn't do anything to cause it to be in their life but it's still their reality. The insulin injections help control the disease but there are many other elements they still need to be aware of to stay on top of their diabetes.....    

Q:Is there such a format?
A: Unfortunately no

Q: I'm thinking that's what the infusions are. But then are the infusions only meant to relieve symptoms and not actually contribute to controlling progression?
A: You are probably confused about the roll of disease modifying drugs (DMD's), IV steroids and symptom treatments, which are three entirely different things.

DMD's in short, do effect progression but symptoms are separately managed by specific issue medications, physiotherapy etc. IV steroids (IVSM) are prescribed during a relapse which generally helps to shorten the MS relapse, which additional helps to reduce the level of damage.

"Yes. I think I'm having trouble digesting all of this. I almost don't believe it. There isn't a lesion in the area of the brain that would prompt the nuritis. I find that strange. The 2 nd Mri was of higher resolution. The 2 nd lesion is only 1 mml!

Q: Couldn't that be anything?
A: There is a pink elephant in your thinking room - "One lesion enhanced... Using the T3 . Compared 1 st MRI of the brain. Showed an additional ( albeit small) enhanced lesion."

These 2 specific lesions "enhanced" which means the blood brain barrier has been breached, indicating your brain is currently under a demyelinating attack and the additional "scattered lesions" that didn't enhance are more likely additional evidence of more than one prior attack.

"I've gad 1 attack of neuritis. My eye is still weaker. But that's it. Occasional fatigue. Flashing white lights out of my paripheral of the neuritis eye. That's it."

Q: Isn't it hasty to make a ms dx?
A: Keep in mind that the human body is a lot more accurate than an MRI, Optic Neuritis is a clinical sign of neurological causation because the optic nerve has been permanently damaged and the additional enhancing lesions are further evidence of MS even if you haven't recognised or experienced any other MS related symptoms. It's not hasty, what's happened to you is probably the most common way MS is diagnosed.....

Q: Maybe wait it out?
A: It would not be in YOUR best interest to assume the enhancing lesions are not significant diagnostic evidence of MS, sorry!

"I'm just making sure I'm not treating myself for basically a case of neuritis.
I see him ( dr) in 2 Monday's . I'll drill him then. I'm usually very compliant, but I just need more to go on.

Q: Wouldn't you?
A: I totally understand the denial process your going through, but don't loose sight of the big picture, MS isn't going to stop without intervention and it is in your best interest to fight the disease early and not wait until you do have more MS symptoms or a related disabling issue. I'd write down all your questions and explain your fears, he'll have a lot of experience in helping to put your mind at ease......

Information:

"Optic Neuritis and the risk of MS

Optic neuritis is most common in women in their 20s and 30s, whereas ischemic optic neuropathy, which is more common, primarily affects older people.

The diagnosis of optic neuritis is primarily clinical, but magnetic resonance imaging confirms the diagnosis and, more importantly, assesses the risk of MS.

Intravenous methylprednisolone (Solu-Medrol) does not affect the long-term visual outcome, but it speeds visual recovery and reduces the risk of MS.

Surprisingly, oral prednisone seems to increase the risk of recurrent optic neuritis and is therefore contraindicated.

Early treatment with interferon beta reduces the risk of MS and should be considered in patients at high risk."

http://www.ccjm.org/index.php?id=107937&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=361873&cHash=fad7a0fb4fc7a576c5d66aca6f340584

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/1214270-overview

Hugs..........JJ
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12832842 tn?1448728801
Also.. There seems to be more going into stem cell treatment. I think the fda approved the first trial in the us? That would be really promising!!
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12832842 tn?1448728801
JJ.. Thank you.. I really appreciate all the insight and advice. We know the lady's husbamd whom I was referring to. It is a " true tale" if you will. Now maybe there's something more to it. I do know he was in bad shape and is now doing great off the meds. Maybe the drug worked do well he was able to get off. I'd that possible with ms medication? Is there such a format? I'm thinking that's what the infusions are. But then are the infusions only meant to relieve symptoms and not actually contribute to controlling progression?
Yes. I think I'm having trouble digesting all of this. I almost don't believe it. There isn't a lesion in the area of the brain that would prompt the nuritis. I find that strange. The 2 nd Mri was of higher resolution. The 2 nd lesion is only 1 mml! Couldn't that be anything? I've gad 1 attack of neuritis. My eye is still weaker. But that's it. Occasional fatigue. Flashing white lights out of my paripheral of the neuritis eye. That's it. Isn't it hasty to make a ms dx?
Maybe wait it out? So many people mention the tingly arms/ pins needles/ numbness.. I have none!
I'm just making sure I'm not treating myself for basically a case of neuritis.
I see him ( dr) in 2 Monday's . I'll drill him then. I'm usually very compliant, but I just need more to go on. Wouldn't you?
And good idea. Maybe a " med thread" is a good place to start w/ my fears of taking meds of needed.
Ty again. I do love all the feedback.
Helpful - 0
12080135 tn?1453627571
I'm do glad JJ and Essi are so active on this forum. I'm still early days but your honest and pragmatic approaches are great - thank you

Nx
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Avatar universal
Brava JJ!

Anecdotes, testimonials, snake oil. As I said on the other post, this is all bogus. No one has ever been cured of MS. Some are lucky enough to go into long remissions, a very small percentage, which would have happened if they stood on their heads, painted themselves blue, or did nothing. Some never had MS to begin with. Some are plain liars.

I simply don't understand a reader who would cast aside the work and knowlege of thousands of scientists all over the world to latch onto a dream that is patently phony, all the while wasting time that could have been  used to start treatment that has proved to have a good chance of being effective.

Andi, I have one more suggestion for you. Why not start yet another thread asking what treatment drug people are on and whether they find the effects 'terrifying.'  

ess
Helpful - 0
987762 tn?1671273328
COMMUNITY LEADER
Your husbands friends story is not dissimilar to what we've all come across, they basically all fall under 'The friend of a friends, neighbours sisters friends cousin etc' miraculous cure stories and urban legends....

lol I once got stuck listening to someone who had a story about her - friends -Dad's - next door neighbours - son - who lives in another state - who 'use to have MS'  but he got himself a personal trainer and now he doesn't have MS any more........aaaaand the moral of that story is lol apparently just exercising will somehow stops your immune system from attacking its self and it will fix up your double vision, bladder dysfunction, cognitive issues and everything else but if it doesn't then it just means YOU didn't work hard enough er rightyho sure i'll get right on that after i've done my bee sting therapy and had a faecal transplant ROFL

I really love wheelchair kamikaze's blogs but keep in mind he doesn't have RRMS so he wouldn't have the option of DMD's because of his progressive type of MS, he also comes across as being very proactive which i love about him but he seems a lot more willing to take on higher treatment risks, basically he's doing what ever it takes.....

Ann Romney hasn't ever (imho) been advocating diet over DMD's, she hasn't been promoting diet as a cure or anything similar to encouraging MSers to give up any medication, she even openly talks about her MS relapses and its progression etc. She is heavily involved in the science and medical research side of MS, which would be totally at odds if all the impressions people make of her personal situation were all actually true.

Honestly no matter who you read about, true stories or urban legends, unless you get it from the horses mouth so to speak, you'd be basing 'your life choice' on  anecdotal stories, which all typically have incomplete or excluded personal history, often include controversial statements, inaccurate facts, promote misinformation and uphold common misinterpretations etc. etc

There is a normal psychological connection to there stories, its human nature and natural to hyper focus on what ever aspect endorses and supports what you want to be true, advocating your already established belief etc etc whilst unconsciously allowing you to overlook any and all evidence that is in direct conflict or disproves that belief etc. The higher the anxiety you have about something, the more likely you are to be unconsciously seeking out supportive testimonials, quasi research, miraculous cures, non standard treatments etc.

As I said it's human nature but the key is making sure you stay open minded, and maintain a health dash of scepticism with anything not fully endorsed by the international MS societies. It's also helpful in MS decision making, if you learn to trust your MS doc, who really 'should' know more than you do about everything MS [one day you may know more :D] remember he/she specialises in MS and will have most answers to your questions, he/she will also genuinely have your best interests in mind with what ever he/she recommends for you!  

Cheers.........JJ
    

  


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12832842 tn?1448728801
Ok,  I'll have to inquire about the patch.. Tecfidera seems most manageable. What were your symptoms that got you to look into ms? I had only 1 " attack" but one that I've gone down this road I'm faced with decisions.
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Avatar universal
There are a lot of new treatments in trials right now, that might be one of them. It sounds familiar...

I was diagnosed almost 2 years ago and started Rebif. Overall it was decent with respect to side effects but my arms and hands don't always make injections easy. After a year of Rebif I switched to Tecfidera and have been on that almost a year. That gave me the option of taking an oral med.

One thing I forgot to mention was that DMDs do not treat symptoms. They aim to slow the disease process. Not sure if that factors into your decision or not.
Helpful - 0
12832842 tn?1448728801
Thank you so much. has anyone heard of Meylin peptide patch? I think that's what it's cslled. It looks very promising without the awful potential side effects. What do you take if you don't mind my asking?
Thx again!!
Helpful - 0
Avatar universal
Hi Andy, welcome to our little corner of the web.  :-)

Newly diagnosed is an emotional time and it doesn't sound like you had much time to consider MS as a possibility.

There is no need to rush a decision for disease modifying drugs (DMD). There are pros and cons to drug therapy and even with alternative therapies.

It is important to understand the benefits and detractions of both and decide what is best for you and your lifestyle.

I personally chose to use a DMD because I wanted to give myself the best chance possible to have as little progression with my disease as I could.

I also looked into naturopathic medicine and was advised that in order to reduce inflammation I would need to do the basic elimination diet for life.

While I could see the benefits, I was not prepared to give up certain things forever, but dealing with potential side effects from a medication was something I could live with.

Everyone is different and there are people who claim to have success with alternative therapy but I am not aware of any studies, only testimonials.

I wish you well in making your decision,

Corrie
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12832842 tn?1448728801
Avatar_m_tn
Andipw3  
43 minutes
To: supermum_msBlank
Hello all..
Thank you for such detailed and quick responses. Yes.. I'm absolutely hoovering  info. Like crazy. It's very difficult because I seem to be on the mild side of this. I wonder.. Can I progress very slowly with no real big changes? Is there such a thing? Have any of you read " wheelchairkamikaze.com"?  He is a blogger I think. He was speaking of a new drug  Tecfidera. I see that's what you are on essdipidy.. Seems the least of side effects.
But back to some thoughts on diet. My husbands friend is a man with ms. He was bed ridden with all the awful effects. Such as loss of bowels, not walking, ect ect. About 2 yrs. He changed his diet and is now walking, riding bikes, and seems to me really healthy with no relapses. I THINK he was taking Meds but not feeking they were working. So with just an increase in vitamin D ect and diet much like the paleo diet, he's doing so much better and is i
Off all meds.
Ann Romney. Another case. She was taking meds but because of the awful side effects, she stopped and is using alternative therapies of a natural course. Reflexology, acupuncture, equine therapy, diet...( article on healthline)
This is so awful to me because I think in literal terms. This disease seems to have no exacts. Maybe/ maybe not..
There are more indications of diet related stories on YouTube. Doesn't it make sense if we eat foods that reduce inflamation it can at least slow progression/damage. Arent the drugs saying the same thing? Won't cure.. But will help slow it down.. 2 camps saying the same thing??
And I thought only spine lesions cause certain symptoms.  Apparently not.
I'm not very " Techy" but I'll try your suggestion copy/paste to a new thread. I so appreciate the advise/help!!!
BlankReply
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