MRI RESULTS TODAY??

[mummy3too]

Runningmom,

Did you get your MRI results today? Hope it went well....

Wishing you the best!

[mummy3too]

gotcha - so, it's not a blip on the MRI ... It appears to really be a sliver of metal.

[RunningMom]

I didn't mean to say artificial artifact in the previous post.  I've lost my mind. LOL  It's anterior metallic artifact that is stated.  

[RunningMom]

The reading of the MRI say anterior metallic artifact from surgery.  I have no idea what it means, but I DO feel something in my neck.  I can not move whatsoever and the pain is unbearable.  The pain is more intense if I lay on my back, so there's got to be something in there.  Perhaps it is a piece of bone that is sticking in my spine or a metal shaving they didn't clean up.  I don't know.  I would love to get an additional MRI.  I don't know if the insurance would allow one so close together.  However, it sure does feel like something is lodged in there with the pain I've been having.  I can feel it with every step I take.

[mummy3too]

I found where you wrote it was a metallic artifact... you said the radiologist's report used those words.

Now, the question is - is that different from an artifical artifact?

[mummy3too]

Did your PM mention the metal ... or did the radiologist's report mention metal? OR did I MENTION METAL??? LOL

I just read up and do not see where you mentioned metal!? Oh, man... maybe I AM losing my mind!

I ask because after reading Tuck's reply, she stated artifical arifact could be just a blip on the MRI and not something that is actually there.... and of course, that would make sense if your previous MRI's did not pick this up....

[Tuckamore]

Hi Runningmom,

Again I am tardy to this discussion. Forgive me please.

I am a bit confused by their terms. Artifact in medical imaging terms means an inaccurate observation, effect, or result.  An artifact is the result of distortion, deletion or addition of information which can often be caused by a minuscule malfunction of the MRI screening device. It's any signal or void that does not have an anatomical basis. A second MRI may very well not contain the same artifact. Artifacts can be misread as true findings. In my opinion the MRI should be repeated.

So I am trying to understand their term of artificial artifact from surgery. I would certainly ask what that means.

I am so glad that you are going to Mayo. I always encourage second or third opinions from a nationally recognized clinic(s) or clinics within or affiliated with large teaching hospitals.I beleive all the minds and eyes of those newly trained and eager residents along with their teachers (or professors) are very interested in getting to the facts and truths behind symptoms. I beleive you have made a wise decision.

I am so sorry that you had a bad reaction to the trigger point injections. I hope that has resolved and at least that you are feeling better in that aspect.

I have always heard about the domino effects following a spinal fusion. It makes sense that the fused area can no longer "move freely" which places more demands and stress on the vertebral bodies above and below the fusion.

My than 25 year old son was given the choice of a fusion a few years ago following a not so successful in pain reduction, laminectomy. His surgeon, I and he discussed the pros and cons. It was decided, basically by my son that the fusion would be put off. He is doing better and thus far has not been sorry for his choice. It may be a future consideration but we are hopeful it can be avoided. He's a large man, 6'3 1/2" and 235 pounds, with very large muscular bands which makes surgery and recovery even more difficult, according to his surgeon. Absolutely the domino effect was discussed in detail.

If in the future my son's pain would return to the levels that he was at I would insist that he ask for a referral to Mayo or a similar clinic....but I am only "Mom."

I am hopeful that you will tell us how your call goes on Monday. They may be closed due to the observance of the 4th on the 5th but maybe not. So please let us know.

Till than hang in there and be safe this weekend. I hope your pain levels are tolerable.

My Best to You,
~Tuck

[mummy3too]

Well, I didn't even mean to suggest you did.I was just rambling about me LOL...... BUT after I saw your MRI, I would just want to be sure that the "metal thing" has not knicked or gone into your thecal sac.

Arachnoiditis is just the inflamation of the arachnoid lining (thecal sac). Adhesive arachnoiditis (which is actually what I have) is when the nerves inside begin to clump together and then they adhere to the lining.

This can be from damage to the thecal sac during surgery or even injections into the spine (or from infection, as I mentined before).

As far as malpractice for you - seems to me that IF that "thingy" is really metal, then yes, it sounds like the doc left something behind.

A lawsuit would depend on what happened as a result - out of pocket expenses for further surgery, permanent damage, pain and suffering because of the mistake... etc.
If you had to prove he did something worng, it would be pretty easy considering he was the last person to operate on you.

Of course, this is all my humble and uneducated opinion. I am not a lawyer and do not play one on TV....LOL  Oh, and I did not stay at a Holiday Inn last night (from the commercial)..

[RunningMom]

I'm pretty sure I don't have Arachnoiditis.  Arachnoiditis sounds like inflammation caused by injury.  Good gracious, I sure hope not anyway.  I do strongly believe that I have a foreign object left in my spine from the last surgery.  Is this considered malpractice???

I do not have an appointment set up with the Mayo clinic just yet.  I'm calling them on Monday, but I first need to call my insurace to see if they accept them.  The Mayo clinic is about 1.5 hours from my house.  If I can't get into there I'm going to try the head of Neurosurgeons at the University of Minnesota.  I do want those other two discs fixed too, I can feel that they are herniated and I have DDD in those two discs as well.  I'm almost 36 years old.

[mummy3too]

Dang!!   I just checked the Mayo Clinic website and they don't even treat Arachnoiditis! I keep hearing how rare it is - and they say there is no cure once you have it. It can also be progressive until you have no function (like MS). Maybe that's whay they don't treat it... if they can't make you better, they can't waste their time.

There are only 2 known ways to get this disease. One is from an infection that spreads to or originates in the spine (including TB, etc..) or by the hands of a doctor during surgery (malpractice..). My doctors have told me I have it, the MRI confirms it - but they they change the subject so fast your head spins when I ask them questions about it. Most people don't even know this disease exists. It's actually listed at the NORD, National Organization of Rare Diseases.

I have researched online and it reads that any further surgery near or at the site can make it worse. This is why I am so afraid to have the fusion to stabilize my back.

If you were to ask me how I got it? I think the doctor did something when he was 'digging' in there (his words)... but their is no proof. Looking at my MRI, the bones at the site of the surgery look like they have discitis, or cancer, or something - they are all granulated and discolored.

LOL - How and why did I begin this rant??

This is something for another post!

RunningMom, When is your appointment at the Mayo? How quickly were you able to get in? Are you travelling there or are you local to one of their clinics? I know they have 3. Keep us updated!!

[jamlws]

I hope the mayo clinic is able to help you. That was not right what your old PMP did to you and I understand that is why he is your OLD pain dr. Some drs just don't get it it.
I am so glad you are very happy with your drs and nurses now and that helps so much during your treatment. I hope your able to get some more answers.
Hang in there
Jamie

[mellie4]

When I saw the phrase "artificial artifact," I also thought of something being left behind.  

[mummy3too]

Very interesting! Let me say this.....

I had surgery for a herniated disc - then a few years later same disc herniated. Different doctor did 2nd surgery. He also told me the MRI did not show all the problems he saw once he was in doing surgery...said he had to "DIG DEEP" while he was in there doing the surgery.... Just like your doctor had told you - not everything showed up on the MRI. I had not thought that was possible, but now I understand it has to do with the angle of the MRI (or so I am told).

Here I am 2 years later - with (and I will only count the protrusions over 5mm -7mm) with 5 herniations in my back and one of them IS THE SAME DISC that has been operated on 2 OTHER TIMES!

I have scar tissue encasing nerve root, matted nerved in the thecal sac (arachnoiditis), spondylosis, and the L5/S1 bones are full of granulation on the MRI's.

Now they are trying to get me to have 2 fusions....and when I asked if the fusion would lead to weaker bones on either side... they indicated, not necessarily. I find it interesting that your doctors are hesitant to do fusion because of that. How old are you? Maybe it's because I am SO OLD - I am early 40's. (Heck, I thought I was still young!!) LOL

Artifical Artifact???  Ok - LOL.... I hope you are going to tell me with all the questions you asked - What the heck is an arificial artifact?????

Sounds like something that was left behind after surgery! I even googled it, and see nothing relating to an MRI other than "artifical disc"...

I have also been seen at a world renowned spine center.. that is where I went to see the last 2 doctors for their expert opinion. (the doctors who did the surgeries were not from this place - )

Let us know when you get into the Mayo. you might want to make an appointment with BOTH a neurosurgeon AND orthopedic spine doctor. Especially if fusion could be the answer.

[RunningMom]

It was nice the nurse and doctor spent the time with me.  Once the old pain doctor was upset how a dignostic shot went and made me sit in a freezing room for two hours by myself until he figured out what he was going to do.  This pain doctor had raised his voice to me that day too.  My mother was waiting for me out in the waiting room and couldn't understand why I was back there for so long.  The diganostic test I was given would only take about 5 minutes or so for the results.  Not two hours.

[RunningMom]

Yes I did.  The thing that is digging into my spine they are calling it a artifical artifact from surgery.(hmmm)  That artifact was not there last August in my MRI.  The two discs that are herniated are bigger then then last year and pressing out more so on the nerves.

I was given trigger point injections on the spot to help with my muscles.  It went horrible.  With in 3 minutes I almost blacked out, almost threw up and sat there with a trash can, and my tongue and lips went numb.  I may of had a reaction to the lidocane.  I was there with a nurse for an hour or so until the effects wore off and this was given to me at the lowest dose.

I'm making my appoinment with the Mayo clinic on Monday.  I hope to go in for a double fusion, but those discs may not be bad enough for surgery due to my age.  They didn't want to operate on them due to the dominio effect, but I really can't live like this.  Although, the one disc they did operate on was the size of those other disc and it ended up being a bigger herniation according to the surgeon.  The surgeon said that the MRI wasn't accurate with his finding when he performed the surgery last year.

The pain clinic is strongly urging I make this appoinment with the surgeon.  I personally saw the pain doctor yesterday due to the NP being over a hour behind.  He is really nice and spent the entire 1.5-2 hours I was there with me.  He answered all of my questions and then some.  I'm really happy I'm there.