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Question regarding ER opiates and possible interaction with alcohol the next day
Due to my hydronephrosis causing chronic flank and back pain, I've been considering asking my doctor to switch to ER opiates along with the IR opiates, particularly Norco (10/325), I've been taking. I'm comfortable taking the Norco as I know they have a much shorter half life so that I can drink the next day due to social obligations and me wanting to enjoy an alcoholic beverage with a special meal.
Obviously, I don't plan on taking these ER opiates with a drink at the same time. I'm concerned will I be able to consume alcohol the next day. Would it be fine for me to do so (even say with the most intense scenario of having fun on vacation with the friends of having 4-6 drinks for the day, of course no opiates (whether IR/ER) would be taken on that day)? Also, I understand that they will build up in the system, especially due to their longer half lifes, after taking them for quite a while. Would it still be fine after taking it for a while (a couple of weeks, months)? The ER Opiate I hope I can be on is Zohydro (the ER hydrocodone) as I'm familiar with that narcotic component and feel more comfortable on it compared to Oxycodone as I don't want to take the road of keep taking stronger opiates. If you have experience with ER opiates other than Zohydro, it would be very much appreciated if you could share. Thanks!
Obviously, I don't plan on taking these ER opiates with a drink at the same time. I'm concerned will I be able to consume alcohol the next day. Would it be fine for me to do so (even say with the most intense scenario of having fun on vacation with the friends of having 4-6 drinks for the day, of course no opiates (whether IR/ER) would be taken on that day)? Also, I understand that they will build up in the system, especially due to their longer half lifes, after taking them for quite a while. Would it still be fine after taking it for a while (a couple of weeks, months)? The ER Opiate I hope I can be on is Zohydro (the ER hydrocodone) as I'm familiar with that narcotic component and feel more comfortable on it compared to Oxycodone as I don't want to take the road of keep taking stronger opiates. If you have experience with ER opiates other than Zohydro, it would be very much appreciated if you could share. Thanks!
I can't believe MH **** my word! It wasn't a swear word! Huh!
Oh well. I'll be cautions not to say it s-u-c-k-s again - even though it does! ;0)
~Tuck
Oh well. I'll be cautions not to say it s-u-c-k-s again - even though it does! ;0)
~Tuck
I didn't mean to imply that alcohol metabolizes to formaldehyde -- sorry for the confusion. I was using an example of an aldehyde that many people might know as an illustration.
Hey Jt,
I sure can't comment on chemical compounds or how they break down - it's never been my forte and remains a puzzle to me. It's simply not how my brain works. :0)
What I do know is that Phil is correct when he says LA opiates are not a PRN medication. I too am distressed with this system that would rather one take the Big Dogs like OxyContin, Methadone or MS Contin, etc. - instead of 4-5 SA Meds that successfully control your pain. Now I'm very aware and educated on the peaks and valleys that a SA med can bring - and how a LA one will avoid those peaks and valleys.
However what happens is than you're on a Big Dig and looked at with even moire suspicion, second class citizen. If you ever stop taking those Big Dogs for whatever reason you're body is in a world or hurt. Withdrawals are much more severe and longer term. Of course when you're RX a Big Dog your SA med is reduced to usually 2 per day - the rational being that with the LA med you need none or less SA meds. I've never found that to be true. I assume I am the exception to the rule - but it *****.
I wish you well - again just be cautious in your decisions - both in medications and alcohol. Remember you are always welcome here. We Chronic Pain patients appreciate the support, experience and knowledge of other Chronic Pain Patients..
Peace,
~Tuck
I sure can't comment on chemical compounds or how they break down - it's never been my forte and remains a puzzle to me. It's simply not how my brain works. :0)
What I do know is that Phil is correct when he says LA opiates are not a PRN medication. I too am distressed with this system that would rather one take the Big Dogs like OxyContin, Methadone or MS Contin, etc. - instead of 4-5 SA Meds that successfully control your pain. Now I'm very aware and educated on the peaks and valleys that a SA med can bring - and how a LA one will avoid those peaks and valleys.
However what happens is than you're on a Big Dig and looked at with even moire suspicion, second class citizen. If you ever stop taking those Big Dogs for whatever reason you're body is in a world or hurt. Withdrawals are much more severe and longer term. Of course when you're RX a Big Dog your SA med is reduced to usually 2 per day - the rational being that with the LA med you need none or less SA meds. I've never found that to be true. I assume I am the exception to the rule - but it *****.
I wish you well - again just be cautious in your decisions - both in medications and alcohol. Remember you are always welcome here. We Chronic Pain patients appreciate the support, experience and knowledge of other Chronic Pain Patients..
Peace,
~Tuck
Thank you for your input of how long lasting ER drugs are. I know that they'll always be a trace of it in your blood stream after a day but wasn't sure if they'll be a significant amount that would negatively react to alcohol the next day. I appreciate sharing your insight on how to take ER opiates.
I'm not trying to be condescending but I have to correct you as actually the aldehyde byproduct of ethanol (the alcohol we drink) is acetylaldehyde (CH3CHO), not formaldehyde (HCHO), where there's a methyl group (-CH3) in place of where the lone hydrogen ion would bind to the formyl group (CHO) in formaldehyde.
I'm not trying to be condescending but I have to correct you as actually the aldehyde byproduct of ethanol (the alcohol we drink) is acetylaldehyde (CH3CHO), not formaldehyde (HCHO), where there's a methyl group (-CH3) in place of where the lone hydrogen ion would bind to the formyl group (CHO) in formaldehyde.
My friend Tuck is full of wisdom about chronic pain, and she's given you good advice.
Allow me to add my 2 cents.
ER opiates are never taken PRN. Once you begin ER/LA opioid formulations, you take them every day or twice a day, but with ER opioids, or any ER medication, that particular chemical is in your blood stream 24/7.
Even the FDA is not certain that ER / LA opiates do what's promised -- lower tolerance onset, and cause less addition. I won't offer an opinion as that's not the subject.
Unless you are opioid tolerant and dependent, make a careful, informed choice about starting ER / LA opioids.
I drink alcohol, but socially -- one glass of wine, maybe two if it's a long part. It won't hurt, and it happens rarely.
Many people, unfortunately, are reduced to managing ther pain with alcohol - don't do this. Opioids are gentle on the liver - alcohol is hard on the liver because it is oxidized to an aldehyde.
Have you heard of formaldehyde? It is a basic aldehyde, one of the bi-products of alcohol, and best known for its use as an embalming fluid.
Alcohol is a poison, far more of toxic than any opioids -- yet, it is a legal substance available on street-corner Mom and Pop shops in every city in America.
Best wishes.
Allow me to add my 2 cents.
ER opiates are never taken PRN. Once you begin ER/LA opioid formulations, you take them every day or twice a day, but with ER opioids, or any ER medication, that particular chemical is in your blood stream 24/7.
Even the FDA is not certain that ER / LA opiates do what's promised -- lower tolerance onset, and cause less addition. I won't offer an opinion as that's not the subject.
Unless you are opioid tolerant and dependent, make a careful, informed choice about starting ER / LA opioids.
I drink alcohol, but socially -- one glass of wine, maybe two if it's a long part. It won't hurt, and it happens rarely.
Many people, unfortunately, are reduced to managing ther pain with alcohol - don't do this. Opioids are gentle on the liver - alcohol is hard on the liver because it is oxidized to an aldehyde.
Have you heard of formaldehyde? It is a basic aldehyde, one of the bi-products of alcohol, and best known for its use as an embalming fluid.
Alcohol is a poison, far more of toxic than any opioids -- yet, it is a legal substance available on street-corner Mom and Pop shops in every city in America.
Best wishes.
Thank you so much for the constructive feedback. If I could, I'd much rather stick with just IR opiates. However, with the political headaches when it comes to receiving opiate medication, I just don't want to be strongarmed by a doctor, especially a PM doctor to which I'm very hesitant on seeing who would most likely say "do this and only this or be cut off", which is why I'm considering the ER opiate treatment when it seems being prescribed IR opiates for a chronic condition seems eyebrow raising to doctors when it suits me fine for my lifestyle for the reasons I had mentioned above.
Hi JT,
I hate to be the one to burst your bubble but consuming alcohol with an ER opiate, even if you "skip" a day is very risky - in more ways than one. Obviously you're aware of the dangers of mixing alcohol with SA opiates.
My physician told me one glass of wine or one beer while I was on SA opiates shouldn't be an issue - though I never took one drink. Once I went on LA opiates along with the SA I was told I should never have a drink.
I understand you are young and drinking is often associated with parties and the like at your age. I think you have a choice - opiates or alcohol - not both. I too enjoyed a few drinks. We were invited to or hosted a party most every weekend mostly due to our careers. I simply quit consuming alcohol. I always had a "drink" in my hand that appeared to be alcohol with a lemon or a lime but it was white soda. Not one of my friend belittled me or encouraged me to indulge. They knew I had chronic pain and required medications, though they never knew what those medications were.
Another concern you'll have by skipping your opiates are drug screens and drug counts. If they're off you'll have a lot of explaining to do - if you are not dismissed. Sorry.
Other members may offer different opinions - this is just mine. I haven't had a drink in over ten years. I crave a glass of good red wine. Yum!
I wish you the best and hope you can work things out. Discuss this with your physician. He/she may be okay with your plan - or offer a better one.
Take Care,
~Tuck
I hate to be the one to burst your bubble but consuming alcohol with an ER opiate, even if you "skip" a day is very risky - in more ways than one. Obviously you're aware of the dangers of mixing alcohol with SA opiates.
My physician told me one glass of wine or one beer while I was on SA opiates shouldn't be an issue - though I never took one drink. Once I went on LA opiates along with the SA I was told I should never have a drink.
I understand you are young and drinking is often associated with parties and the like at your age. I think you have a choice - opiates or alcohol - not both. I too enjoyed a few drinks. We were invited to or hosted a party most every weekend mostly due to our careers. I simply quit consuming alcohol. I always had a "drink" in my hand that appeared to be alcohol with a lemon or a lime but it was white soda. Not one of my friend belittled me or encouraged me to indulge. They knew I had chronic pain and required medications, though they never knew what those medications were.
Another concern you'll have by skipping your opiates are drug screens and drug counts. If they're off you'll have a lot of explaining to do - if you are not dismissed. Sorry.
Other members may offer different opinions - this is just mine. I haven't had a drink in over ten years. I crave a glass of good red wine. Yum!
I wish you the best and hope you can work things out. Discuss this with your physician. He/she may be okay with your plan - or offer a better one.
Take Care,
~Tuck
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