Aa
Epidural?
So initially i wanted to get an epidural because i didnt want to feel too much pain lol, BUT after talking to my sister, a couple family members and a few of my co-workers im having second thoughts. I heard from every one of them that after they had their babies they felt no pain! Thats without the epidural. So now im debating on getting it. It'd be nice to push him out and then not feel any pain!
Any advice ladies?
Any advice ladies?
Okay I found the quote I was thinking of by WHO (World Health Organization; which is the health organization for the United Nations). It says, "The World Health Organization maintains that in a developed country, the proportion of cesareans should not exceed 15%; beyond that, the maternal injury and death consequent to major abdominal surgery begins to eclipse the lives and health saved."
A CDC study of 5.7 million babies born in the US found infants born by cesarean with no medical risk factors were nearly THREE TIMES more likely to die within the first month than those born vaginally.
Another quote, from an OB actually, says "This is not the way to practice medicine [talking about the high cesarean rate]. Why do women put up with this? I have no idea. You know, back in the 80's when I was in residency there was a feminist movement [lots of natural birth]. The women back then would never have tolerated this."
When an OB was asked what worries him. "I know that we should not be inducing so many patients; I know that we should be giving patients more time to be overdue; I know that as we speak somebody pregnant with twins is being told that she can't have vaginal birth and someone else is being told she can't have a VBAC, " he said clearly frustrated. "Meanwhile the insurance company is 'teaching me how not to get sued,' which means not taking vaginal twins or VBACs... and wheeling more patients to the OR at the first sign of difficulty."
One of the same OBs above was also quoted to say, "You want to know why the c-section rate is so high? Right there. The electronic fetal monitor." (*Which she talks about in great details and how studies have proven it does not prevent any problems but actually increases the likelihood of needing interventions, such as cesarean.)
Garber, an MD in maternal-fetal medicine is not like the typical cesarean-pushing OB. He says the solution to the problem is this: "This is my answer. The American system in my opinion is faulty. It tries to get physicians to be in two places at once. In the European system midwives run the labor floor. And they call the surgeon when they feel a patient needs surgery. Midwives are committed to labor. They't not committed to c-sections. They will spend 8, 10, 12 hours with a patient. And that allows me to go back to the office, see patients, take care of my life. The [cesarean] numbers are out of control. I think the medical community is not taking this as seriously as it should."
Okay Ivy I didn't see anything in the cesarean chapter on obesity and how it factors in but that doesn't mean she doesn't touch on it in another chapter. I'm only halfway through the book. Anyway thought I'd share the above quotes.
We're totally on the same page on the c-section rates. It's just so unnerving to read all the quotes and read all the birth stories and wonder how we can get from this place of fear (malpractice) and money. I've followed so many L&D nurses. Many of them have home births and when asked why, when they see everything that happens in L&D they respond, "EXACTLY! I do see what happens here and that is why I'm having birth at home."
A CDC study of 5.7 million babies born in the US found infants born by cesarean with no medical risk factors were nearly THREE TIMES more likely to die within the first month than those born vaginally.
Another quote, from an OB actually, says "This is not the way to practice medicine [talking about the high cesarean rate]. Why do women put up with this? I have no idea. You know, back in the 80's when I was in residency there was a feminist movement [lots of natural birth]. The women back then would never have tolerated this."
When an OB was asked what worries him. "I know that we should not be inducing so many patients; I know that we should be giving patients more time to be overdue; I know that as we speak somebody pregnant with twins is being told that she can't have vaginal birth and someone else is being told she can't have a VBAC, " he said clearly frustrated. "Meanwhile the insurance company is 'teaching me how not to get sued,' which means not taking vaginal twins or VBACs... and wheeling more patients to the OR at the first sign of difficulty."
One of the same OBs above was also quoted to say, "You want to know why the c-section rate is so high? Right there. The electronic fetal monitor." (*Which she talks about in great details and how studies have proven it does not prevent any problems but actually increases the likelihood of needing interventions, such as cesarean.)
Garber, an MD in maternal-fetal medicine is not like the typical cesarean-pushing OB. He says the solution to the problem is this: "This is my answer. The American system in my opinion is faulty. It tries to get physicians to be in two places at once. In the European system midwives run the labor floor. And they call the surgeon when they feel a patient needs surgery. Midwives are committed to labor. They't not committed to c-sections. They will spend 8, 10, 12 hours with a patient. And that allows me to go back to the office, see patients, take care of my life. The [cesarean] numbers are out of control. I think the medical community is not taking this as seriously as it should."
Okay Ivy I didn't see anything in the cesarean chapter on obesity and how it factors in but that doesn't mean she doesn't touch on it in another chapter. I'm only halfway through the book. Anyway thought I'd share the above quotes.
We're totally on the same page on the c-section rates. It's just so unnerving to read all the quotes and read all the birth stories and wonder how we can get from this place of fear (malpractice) and money. I've followed so many L&D nurses. Many of them have home births and when asked why, when they see everything that happens in L&D they respond, "EXACTLY! I do see what happens here and that is why I'm having birth at home."
I don't think a lot of is only doctors though. I've seen women who get c-sections because they're proud of it down there and don't wanna make it look bad. You are right though Joy. When the c-section rate is over half (or close to half) there are huge problems. I read an old post on another forum on here and was shocked by some of the reasons women gave. I mean, to each their own but it is just shocking why some do it. My midwife told me that with the rate things are going c-sections will be done as standard labour and vaginal will be a option. That's scary to think about.
thanks, girl :-) I would be really interested in the statistics...it's what's always bothered me about the c-section "rate" numbers. I agree that it's sad. My SIL had a necessary c-section for her first, (I'm no doctor so maybe I'm wrong!) but an ABSOLUTELY unnecessary one for her 2nd...elective (turned down the VBAC she was offered) because she didn't want to go through the pain of labor. I won't judge anyone or say anything rude, but in my humble opinion....I truly disagree with that reasoning, for the baby's health AND the mom's health.
Poor Andrea, LOL! We did pretty much hijack.
I think the book touches on the statistics when you take out the unnecessary versus necessary but I'd have to find the quotes. Let me see if I can find something. I just think this is an interesting (and sad) topic about cesareans. A family on my Facebook, someone I was friends with long ago, just had a baby yesterday via repeat cesarean and the poor baby had so much fluid he's been in NICU and his family didn't get to hold him until today. The birth canal is the perfect suction for getting all that fluid out of baby and cesarean just can't mimic it no matter how small the cut they make.
Anywho I'll go see if I can find any quotes. I got the book on Amazon and so far it is absolutely AMAZING and comprehensive. She just presents the facts which is what I respect and she talks about the history of birth which is so interesting. Wish you lived closer and I could just let you borrow mine! Library near you might have a copy, too.
I think the book touches on the statistics when you take out the unnecessary versus necessary but I'd have to find the quotes. Let me see if I can find something. I just think this is an interesting (and sad) topic about cesareans. A family on my Facebook, someone I was friends with long ago, just had a baby yesterday via repeat cesarean and the poor baby had so much fluid he's been in NICU and his family didn't get to hold him until today. The birth canal is the perfect suction for getting all that fluid out of baby and cesarean just can't mimic it no matter how small the cut they make.
Anywho I'll go see if I can find any quotes. I got the book on Amazon and so far it is absolutely AMAZING and comprehensive. She just presents the facts which is what I respect and she talks about the history of birth which is so interesting. Wish you lived closer and I could just let you borrow mine! Library near you might have a copy, too.
I agree 100% Joy I think this is a conversation that needs to be had, in public, where people can understand the issues involved...otherwise I'd message you in private and we can talk about our dislike for unnecessary medical inventions and debate good-naturedly about everything else...but this is SUCH an important education for women contemplating delivery types to understand...and I can not emphasize enough...
You. Can. Always. Call. The. Shots. Every woman needs to understand her body, it's capabilities, and learn to be an advocate for herself...that's the big thing here. We're expected to advocate for ourselves with regular doctors, and we can't stop just because we become pregnant..it's more important than ever to take charge of your delivery experience!
You. Can. Always. Call. The. Shots. Every woman needs to understand her body, it's capabilities, and learn to be an advocate for herself...that's the big thing here. We're expected to advocate for ourselves with regular doctors, and we can't stop just because we become pregnant..it's more important than ever to take charge of your delivery experience!
I'll definitely look into it! Well I think, like you said, it's a far more complex issue than just any simple explanation of cause/effect...the reason I think that the obesity rates affect the statistics on c-section is because of this....it's very unlikely for a woman who is obese to be in peak physical condition. That does not MEAN she will require a c-section, but let's face it...delivery is the ultimate marathon. So there are more chances that something alarming is going to crop up along the way...statistics prove that obese women (especially morbidly obese, a group which has been on the rise as far as pregnancies go because of the ability to defeat weight-related fertility issues) have a much higher risk of complications....(of course, they also have a significantly higher risk of complication during surgery!) so I think that doctors very often perform c-sections out of fear. You know what I mean? it's not that they want to hurry the delivery, and it's not a selfish choice...but sometimes they see something occurring that is worrisome and not currently life-threatening so it APPEARS to be an unnecessary intervention, but in reality it's just the OB's knee-jerk to something that could become a potential problem.
Now, I don't necessarily think this is the right way to handle it. I really don't. It's just that obesity has become such a serious problem and it's really quite a new epidemic and I don't think statistics have adjusted yet to the whole issue.
To me, the whole crux of the issue comes down to these two things:
1)OB's or midwives who push unnecessary c-sections, WHATEVER the reason
2)women who choose elective c-sections. we have to remember that there is a significant portion of women who actually CHOOSE to have a c-section. I've even heard the excuse "I want to just get it over with and recover" because they don't realize how very quickly you can recover from a natural birth (I was sitting up within 10-15 minutes of delivering my son, and moving around in about 20-30 minutes...peeing, changing my clothes, stretching my back etc.)
So i think that while, yes, the statistics say 40-50% of women are having c-sections..I think that the number is including a significant number of necessary c-sections, and it's also including a great number of c-sections that are performed in a prophylactic sense (which like I said I don't necessarily support, but I understand the logic behind)...and I'm not sure it's fair to include those 2 types of sections in the statistics, because they inflate the numbers. I think we need a comprehensive understanding of how many are performed entirely unnecessarily; either by the doctor's pressure or by the woman's choice..and those are the ones we need to focus on. But I'll definitely look into that book :-)\
sorry for the hijack andrea LOL
Now, I don't necessarily think this is the right way to handle it. I really don't. It's just that obesity has become such a serious problem and it's really quite a new epidemic and I don't think statistics have adjusted yet to the whole issue.
To me, the whole crux of the issue comes down to these two things:
1)OB's or midwives who push unnecessary c-sections, WHATEVER the reason
2)women who choose elective c-sections. we have to remember that there is a significant portion of women who actually CHOOSE to have a c-section. I've even heard the excuse "I want to just get it over with and recover" because they don't realize how very quickly you can recover from a natural birth (I was sitting up within 10-15 minutes of delivering my son, and moving around in about 20-30 minutes...peeing, changing my clothes, stretching my back etc.)
So i think that while, yes, the statistics say 40-50% of women are having c-sections..I think that the number is including a significant number of necessary c-sections, and it's also including a great number of c-sections that are performed in a prophylactic sense (which like I said I don't necessarily support, but I understand the logic behind)...and I'm not sure it's fair to include those 2 types of sections in the statistics, because they inflate the numbers. I think we need a comprehensive understanding of how many are performed entirely unnecessarily; either by the doctor's pressure or by the woman's choice..and those are the ones we need to focus on. But I'll definitely look into that book :-)\
sorry for the hijack andrea LOL
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