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Armour or Synthroid?
I need your help and opinions since I'm once again confused.
I have a 15 minute consultation appointment tomorrow with a new doctor 70 miles from home. I want to present him with as much relevant information as possible and have all my lab results from January 2013-September 2013.
I recently changed from Synthroid (past 22 years) to Armour (July 2013) after a heated discussion with my GP. "You won't feel any better," she declared as she wrote the prescription. Gee, thanks....
Comparing my January test results while on Synthroid with my current labs on Armour, I am puzzled.
I hate to admit it, but after longing for it all these years, Is Armour the right med for me?
January 2013 test results on 100mg Synthroid: (I was feeling ok at this time, not great but ok.)
TSH 1.205 Range 0.358-3.740
FT3 3.40 Range 2.30-4.20
FT4 1.20 Range 0.76-1.46
By July 2013, I felt quite tired and here are the test results still on 100 Synthroid:
TSH 2.073 (same ranges as above)
FT3 2.80
FT4 1.01
I won my fight to try Armour in July 2013 and after a few raises in dosage (started with 60 then raised to 90) and starting BHRT here are my last results from late September 2013 on Armour 90:
TSH 0.191 (Range 0.358-3.740)
Free T3 3.50 (Range 2.30-4.20)
Free T4 0.78 (Range 0.76-1.46)
RT3 16 (Range 8-25)
Ferritin 149 (Range 8-252)
DHEA 158 (15-170)
TPO 25 (Range <35)
Antithyroglobulin 353 (Range <20)
Vitamin D 55 (Range 30-100)
Folate 8.7 (no range available)
B12 1502 (Range 211-911)
My symptoms were fatigue, joint pain, headache, heavy pounding heart and occasional chest pressure on the dose above. I was tested on a Thyroflex machine and my reflexes were very slow, indicating the need for more medication.
The NP I am currently seeing said I more than likely have Hashimotos' and panicked when she saw the suppressed TSH levels (despite ordering the other tests) and recommended a lowering of dose. Surprisingly, she listened when I pointed out the not so great FT3 and FT4 levels and very reluctantly agreed to raise my dose to 120 one week ago. I'm feeling a little better than I did, but haven't had labs run yet since it is too soon.
Since my NP is very nervous and said she should probably send me elsewhere, I'm afraid I'll be without a doctor again soon if this current raise in dosage doesn't work out. This is why I am seeking yet another opinion from a doctor recommended to me by another thyroid patient with a similar history. This new doc does order more than just the TSH and will prescribe T3/T4 meds, though I think he is partial to Naturethroid.
Anyway, here's my questions: Looking at my January lab test, was I doing better (at least on paper?) on Synthroid than on Armour? At that point, I didn't feel ill, but I wasn't exactly peppy, either. By July 2013, I was feeling run down and hypo again with joint/muscle aches and worsening fatigue.
After the switch to 60 Armour (too low of a dose) also in July, I started feeling even worse very quickly, and the doctor ordered only the TSH test after four weeks. No surprise to me, my TSH came back at 12.5 and the dose of Armour was raised to 90 (lab results are listed above.)
I know every person is different and there is no 'one drug fits all' out there. And I also realize I haven't been on Armour long enough to find the appropriate dose yet, so maybe I'm jumping the gun.
And has anyone noticed their thyroid symptoms (and dosages) change seasonally? Historically for me, early fall is the worst. I was hospitalized three years ago in October with the same symptoms as this year while on Synthroid and after an extensive, expensive heart work up finding nothing wrong, I was sent home. Living in Wisconsin, the winters are of course long and outdoor work is at a minimum; but when spring and summer arrives, twelve and thirteen hour days of hard physical work on the farm are normal. With the arrival of fall, the physical work slows down again. I often wondered if my symptoms were related to overwork in the summer that catches up with me in the fall? I've asked doctors about this before, but they said it's not likely to affect the thyroid that much. I do work out all winter long, too, and also cross-country ski, so it's not like I stop doing anything strenuous in the winter, but it's still puzzling why my symptoms worsen in the fall.
In your experiences comparing lab test results, were my January Synthroid results more consistent with proper treatment levels than my current Armour labs?
And if anyone has any questions they think I should ask this new doctor, please let me know.
I have a 15 minute consultation appointment tomorrow with a new doctor 70 miles from home. I want to present him with as much relevant information as possible and have all my lab results from January 2013-September 2013.
I recently changed from Synthroid (past 22 years) to Armour (July 2013) after a heated discussion with my GP. "You won't feel any better," she declared as she wrote the prescription. Gee, thanks....
Comparing my January test results while on Synthroid with my current labs on Armour, I am puzzled.
I hate to admit it, but after longing for it all these years, Is Armour the right med for me?
January 2013 test results on 100mg Synthroid: (I was feeling ok at this time, not great but ok.)
TSH 1.205 Range 0.358-3.740
FT3 3.40 Range 2.30-4.20
FT4 1.20 Range 0.76-1.46
By July 2013, I felt quite tired and here are the test results still on 100 Synthroid:
TSH 2.073 (same ranges as above)
FT3 2.80
FT4 1.01
I won my fight to try Armour in July 2013 and after a few raises in dosage (started with 60 then raised to 90) and starting BHRT here are my last results from late September 2013 on Armour 90:
TSH 0.191 (Range 0.358-3.740)
Free T3 3.50 (Range 2.30-4.20)
Free T4 0.78 (Range 0.76-1.46)
RT3 16 (Range 8-25)
Ferritin 149 (Range 8-252)
DHEA 158 (15-170)
TPO 25 (Range <35)
Antithyroglobulin 353 (Range <20)
Vitamin D 55 (Range 30-100)
Folate 8.7 (no range available)
B12 1502 (Range 211-911)
My symptoms were fatigue, joint pain, headache, heavy pounding heart and occasional chest pressure on the dose above. I was tested on a Thyroflex machine and my reflexes were very slow, indicating the need for more medication.
The NP I am currently seeing said I more than likely have Hashimotos' and panicked when she saw the suppressed TSH levels (despite ordering the other tests) and recommended a lowering of dose. Surprisingly, she listened when I pointed out the not so great FT3 and FT4 levels and very reluctantly agreed to raise my dose to 120 one week ago. I'm feeling a little better than I did, but haven't had labs run yet since it is too soon.
Since my NP is very nervous and said she should probably send me elsewhere, I'm afraid I'll be without a doctor again soon if this current raise in dosage doesn't work out. This is why I am seeking yet another opinion from a doctor recommended to me by another thyroid patient with a similar history. This new doc does order more than just the TSH and will prescribe T3/T4 meds, though I think he is partial to Naturethroid.
Anyway, here's my questions: Looking at my January lab test, was I doing better (at least on paper?) on Synthroid than on Armour? At that point, I didn't feel ill, but I wasn't exactly peppy, either. By July 2013, I was feeling run down and hypo again with joint/muscle aches and worsening fatigue.
After the switch to 60 Armour (too low of a dose) also in July, I started feeling even worse very quickly, and the doctor ordered only the TSH test after four weeks. No surprise to me, my TSH came back at 12.5 and the dose of Armour was raised to 90 (lab results are listed above.)
I know every person is different and there is no 'one drug fits all' out there. And I also realize I haven't been on Armour long enough to find the appropriate dose yet, so maybe I'm jumping the gun.
And has anyone noticed their thyroid symptoms (and dosages) change seasonally? Historically for me, early fall is the worst. I was hospitalized three years ago in October with the same symptoms as this year while on Synthroid and after an extensive, expensive heart work up finding nothing wrong, I was sent home. Living in Wisconsin, the winters are of course long and outdoor work is at a minimum; but when spring and summer arrives, twelve and thirteen hour days of hard physical work on the farm are normal. With the arrival of fall, the physical work slows down again. I often wondered if my symptoms were related to overwork in the summer that catches up with me in the fall? I've asked doctors about this before, but they said it's not likely to affect the thyroid that much. I do work out all winter long, too, and also cross-country ski, so it's not like I stop doing anything strenuous in the winter, but it's still puzzling why my symptoms worsen in the fall.
In your experiences comparing lab test results, were my January Synthroid results more consistent with proper treatment levels than my current Armour labs?
And if anyone has any questions they think I should ask this new doctor, please let me know.
The doctor basically cut your med by 1/3. From your lab results I expect that is going to be too much of a change. If we assume that all of your serum thyroid comes from meds, not your thyroid gland, then that much of a reduction is likely going to drop your Free T4 near the bottom of the range and your Free T3 below the middle of the range. If so, those levels result in hypo symptoms for many hypo patients.
Do you think you could talk to the doctor and get him to reconsider and only reduce your meds by 1/2 grain, down to 195 of Westhroid? That should stop the hyper symptoms yet keep your Free T3 high enough to avoid getting back into hypo symptoms. Then, if needed, a bit of T4 could be added to get your Free T4 to around the middle of the range.
Just curious, why did the doctor switch you to Westhroid?
Do you think you could talk to the doctor and get him to reconsider and only reduce your meds by 1/2 grain, down to 195 of Westhroid? That should stop the hyper symptoms yet keep your Free T3 high enough to avoid getting back into hypo symptoms. Then, if needed, a bit of T4 could be added to get your Free T4 to around the middle of the range.
Just curious, why did the doctor switch you to Westhroid?
At my followup appointment today my doctor decided to change my medication from 180 Armour where my lab results were:
FT3 4.80 (Range 2.30-4.20)
FT4 1.11 (Range 0.76-1.46)
The doctor decided to change my meds from 180 Armour to WP Thyroid (Westhroid Pure) 130 mg.
Has anyone had any experience with Westhroid? I am also wondering if this is a rather abrupt reduction in dosage?
FT3 4.80 (Range 2.30-4.20)
FT4 1.11 (Range 0.76-1.46)
The doctor decided to change my meds from 180 Armour to WP Thyroid (Westhroid Pure) 130 mg.
Has anyone had any experience with Westhroid? I am also wondering if this is a rather abrupt reduction in dosage?
Thank you, gimel. I guess it's back to the waiting game again. Luckily I haven't had any of the more devastating symptoms of being overmedicated.
That should be long enough to give a representative result on the Free T3. So, in view of that result and your mention of having some trouble falling asleep and staying asleep, I think you are a bit over medicated, and time to back off a bit on your dosage. I expect your doctor will tell you the same.
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In Sept. on 90 mg of Armour, your labs show FT3 above middle of the range, but your FT4 at very bottom of range. For patients taking Armour, relief from hypo symptom usually is associated with having FT3 in the upper third of the range and FT4 around the middle of the range. Since you still have symptoms, there is plenty of room to raise your Armour, if necessary. You could also add a bit of T4 med to raise your FT4 toward middle of the range. One question I have here is whether you took your Armour med before blood draw for those tests?
One other area that I notice is the B12 is way over range. If this is due to taking supplements, then you should back off. Excess B12 can also cause symptoms.
"Side Effects of Too Much Vitamin B12
Because vitamin B12 is a water soluble vitamin, it is difficult to overdose or build up vitamin B12 toxicity. This is because excess amounts of water soluble vitamins not used by the body are typically excreted in the urine. While there aren't very many side effects of too much vitamin B12 to be concerned with, there are a few things you should be on the lookout for if you are supplementing vitamin B12.
•In rare cases, excess B12 supplementation may cause some numbness or tingling in the arm, hands and face.
•Excess vitamin B12 may contribute to anxiety symptoms such as panic attacks.
•Too much vitamin B12 may contribute to or cause insomnia.
•Prolonged excessive consumption of vitamin B12 may exacerbate the symptoms of mitral valve prolapse.
•Excess vitamin B12 intake may exacerbate hyperthyroidism.
•There appears to be a link between megadoses of vitamin B12 and certain cancers.
•Rashes may occur with excess B12 supplementation."
Just a few more comments. Don't let your doctor panic about a suppressed TSH. That is a very common occurrence with hypo patients taking significant doses of thyroid meds. There are many scientific studies proving that. My TSH has been less than .05 for well over 30 years, with no identified adverse effects.
Also, if not tested for Vitamin D, and magnesium, I would suggest those.