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Armour or Synthroid?
I need your help and opinions since I'm once again confused.
I have a 15 minute consultation appointment tomorrow with a new doctor 70 miles from home. I want to present him with as much relevant information as possible and have all my lab results from January 2013-September 2013.
I recently changed from Synthroid (past 22 years) to Armour (July 2013) after a heated discussion with my GP. "You won't feel any better," she declared as she wrote the prescription. Gee, thanks....
Comparing my January test results while on Synthroid with my current labs on Armour, I am puzzled.
I hate to admit it, but after longing for it all these years, Is Armour the right med for me?
January 2013 test results on 100mg Synthroid: (I was feeling ok at this time, not great but ok.)
TSH 1.205 Range 0.358-3.740
FT3 3.40 Range 2.30-4.20
FT4 1.20 Range 0.76-1.46
By July 2013, I felt quite tired and here are the test results still on 100 Synthroid:
TSH 2.073 (same ranges as above)
FT3 2.80
FT4 1.01
I won my fight to try Armour in July 2013 and after a few raises in dosage (started with 60 then raised to 90) and starting BHRT here are my last results from late September 2013 on Armour 90:
TSH 0.191 (Range 0.358-3.740)
Free T3 3.50 (Range 2.30-4.20)
Free T4 0.78 (Range 0.76-1.46)
RT3 16 (Range 8-25)
Ferritin 149 (Range 8-252)
DHEA 158 (15-170)
TPO 25 (Range <35)
Antithyroglobulin 353 (Range <20)
Vitamin D 55 (Range 30-100)
Folate 8.7 (no range available)
B12 1502 (Range 211-911)
My symptoms were fatigue, joint pain, headache, heavy pounding heart and occasional chest pressure on the dose above. I was tested on a Thyroflex machine and my reflexes were very slow, indicating the need for more medication.
The NP I am currently seeing said I more than likely have Hashimotos' and panicked when she saw the suppressed TSH levels (despite ordering the other tests) and recommended a lowering of dose. Surprisingly, she listened when I pointed out the not so great FT3 and FT4 levels and very reluctantly agreed to raise my dose to 120 one week ago. I'm feeling a little better than I did, but haven't had labs run yet since it is too soon.
Since my NP is very nervous and said she should probably send me elsewhere, I'm afraid I'll be without a doctor again soon if this current raise in dosage doesn't work out. This is why I am seeking yet another opinion from a doctor recommended to me by another thyroid patient with a similar history. This new doc does order more than just the TSH and will prescribe T3/T4 meds, though I think he is partial to Naturethroid.
Anyway, here's my questions: Looking at my January lab test, was I doing better (at least on paper?) on Synthroid than on Armour? At that point, I didn't feel ill, but I wasn't exactly peppy, either. By July 2013, I was feeling run down and hypo again with joint/muscle aches and worsening fatigue.
After the switch to 60 Armour (too low of a dose) also in July, I started feeling even worse very quickly, and the doctor ordered only the TSH test after four weeks. No surprise to me, my TSH came back at 12.5 and the dose of Armour was raised to 90 (lab results are listed above.)
I know every person is different and there is no 'one drug fits all' out there. And I also realize I haven't been on Armour long enough to find the appropriate dose yet, so maybe I'm jumping the gun.
And has anyone noticed their thyroid symptoms (and dosages) change seasonally? Historically for me, early fall is the worst. I was hospitalized three years ago in October with the same symptoms as this year while on Synthroid and after an extensive, expensive heart work up finding nothing wrong, I was sent home. Living in Wisconsin, the winters are of course long and outdoor work is at a minimum; but when spring and summer arrives, twelve and thirteen hour days of hard physical work on the farm are normal. With the arrival of fall, the physical work slows down again. I often wondered if my symptoms were related to overwork in the summer that catches up with me in the fall? I've asked doctors about this before, but they said it's not likely to affect the thyroid that much. I do work out all winter long, too, and also cross-country ski, so it's not like I stop doing anything strenuous in the winter, but it's still puzzling why my symptoms worsen in the fall.
In your experiences comparing lab test results, were my January Synthroid results more consistent with proper treatment levels than my current Armour labs?
And if anyone has any questions they think I should ask this new doctor, please let me know.
I have a 15 minute consultation appointment tomorrow with a new doctor 70 miles from home. I want to present him with as much relevant information as possible and have all my lab results from January 2013-September 2013.
I recently changed from Synthroid (past 22 years) to Armour (July 2013) after a heated discussion with my GP. "You won't feel any better," she declared as she wrote the prescription. Gee, thanks....
Comparing my January test results while on Synthroid with my current labs on Armour, I am puzzled.
I hate to admit it, but after longing for it all these years, Is Armour the right med for me?
January 2013 test results on 100mg Synthroid: (I was feeling ok at this time, not great but ok.)
TSH 1.205 Range 0.358-3.740
FT3 3.40 Range 2.30-4.20
FT4 1.20 Range 0.76-1.46
By July 2013, I felt quite tired and here are the test results still on 100 Synthroid:
TSH 2.073 (same ranges as above)
FT3 2.80
FT4 1.01
I won my fight to try Armour in July 2013 and after a few raises in dosage (started with 60 then raised to 90) and starting BHRT here are my last results from late September 2013 on Armour 90:
TSH 0.191 (Range 0.358-3.740)
Free T3 3.50 (Range 2.30-4.20)
Free T4 0.78 (Range 0.76-1.46)
RT3 16 (Range 8-25)
Ferritin 149 (Range 8-252)
DHEA 158 (15-170)
TPO 25 (Range <35)
Antithyroglobulin 353 (Range <20)
Vitamin D 55 (Range 30-100)
Folate 8.7 (no range available)
B12 1502 (Range 211-911)
My symptoms were fatigue, joint pain, headache, heavy pounding heart and occasional chest pressure on the dose above. I was tested on a Thyroflex machine and my reflexes were very slow, indicating the need for more medication.
The NP I am currently seeing said I more than likely have Hashimotos' and panicked when she saw the suppressed TSH levels (despite ordering the other tests) and recommended a lowering of dose. Surprisingly, she listened when I pointed out the not so great FT3 and FT4 levels and very reluctantly agreed to raise my dose to 120 one week ago. I'm feeling a little better than I did, but haven't had labs run yet since it is too soon.
Since my NP is very nervous and said she should probably send me elsewhere, I'm afraid I'll be without a doctor again soon if this current raise in dosage doesn't work out. This is why I am seeking yet another opinion from a doctor recommended to me by another thyroid patient with a similar history. This new doc does order more than just the TSH and will prescribe T3/T4 meds, though I think he is partial to Naturethroid.
Anyway, here's my questions: Looking at my January lab test, was I doing better (at least on paper?) on Synthroid than on Armour? At that point, I didn't feel ill, but I wasn't exactly peppy, either. By July 2013, I was feeling run down and hypo again with joint/muscle aches and worsening fatigue.
After the switch to 60 Armour (too low of a dose) also in July, I started feeling even worse very quickly, and the doctor ordered only the TSH test after four weeks. No surprise to me, my TSH came back at 12.5 and the dose of Armour was raised to 90 (lab results are listed above.)
I know every person is different and there is no 'one drug fits all' out there. And I also realize I haven't been on Armour long enough to find the appropriate dose yet, so maybe I'm jumping the gun.
And has anyone noticed their thyroid symptoms (and dosages) change seasonally? Historically for me, early fall is the worst. I was hospitalized three years ago in October with the same symptoms as this year while on Synthroid and after an extensive, expensive heart work up finding nothing wrong, I was sent home. Living in Wisconsin, the winters are of course long and outdoor work is at a minimum; but when spring and summer arrives, twelve and thirteen hour days of hard physical work on the farm are normal. With the arrival of fall, the physical work slows down again. I often wondered if my symptoms were related to overwork in the summer that catches up with me in the fall? I've asked doctors about this before, but they said it's not likely to affect the thyroid that much. I do work out all winter long, too, and also cross-country ski, so it's not like I stop doing anything strenuous in the winter, but it's still puzzling why my symptoms worsen in the fall.
In your experiences comparing lab test results, were my January Synthroid results more consistent with proper treatment levels than my current Armour labs?
And if anyone has any questions they think I should ask this new doctor, please let me know.
Thank you for your response, gimel, this is very helpful. After looking at my past labs, I was starting to wonder if I was better off on Synthroid after all the effort it took to try Armour which is a scary thought. I still have high hopes for a T3/T4 med once I find the optimal dose.
I did not take my Armour before the blood draw which was late in the day, around 4PM. (Normally I take it first thing in the morning, but I'd read here I should wait on lab test days.)
Barb135 had suggested the MD might add a bit of T4 to the Armour, but my current NP isn't comfortable with that idea. Maybe the new MD will be.
Yes, I've stopped taking the 5000mcg sublingual B12 supplement for now. I had been told my B12 levels weren't great in the past, so my MD recommended the supplement. Apparently I don't need as much, I wonder if I should drop it completely or take a lower dose?
My Vitamin D levels were 55 (Range 30-100) and supplementing with 2000iu daily.
I have not been tested for magnesium, though I am taking Magnesium Malate 1300mg daily.
Hopefully the new MD will have some idea of where to go from here, that is, if he takes me on as a new patient. From what I've heard of him, he also advises that autoimmune diseases must be treated through diet changes, too, (such as gluten-free, sugar-free, dairy-free, etc. etc.) which is also something my NP advocates.
I haven't made up my mind on the diet/thryoid connection yet; I've read here that many people have tried gluten-free and hadn't noticed much of difference in symptoms. I guess I can't knock it til I've tried it, but can't say I'm looking forward to it.
I try to eat as healthfully as possible and avoid processed food. I'm not sure if going g-free is the answer, though it's been getting a lot of press. Personally, I like everything in moderation, but I guess that's old school thinking. I'm on the fence with the restrictive diets after so many other diet recommendations over the years have proven to be fads. Again, everyone is different, so if it works for some people, I'm not going to argue. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. What are your thoughts on the thyroid/diet connection?
I did not take my Armour before the blood draw which was late in the day, around 4PM. (Normally I take it first thing in the morning, but I'd read here I should wait on lab test days.)
Barb135 had suggested the MD might add a bit of T4 to the Armour, but my current NP isn't comfortable with that idea. Maybe the new MD will be.
Yes, I've stopped taking the 5000mcg sublingual B12 supplement for now. I had been told my B12 levels weren't great in the past, so my MD recommended the supplement. Apparently I don't need as much, I wonder if I should drop it completely or take a lower dose?
My Vitamin D levels were 55 (Range 30-100) and supplementing with 2000iu daily.
I have not been tested for magnesium, though I am taking Magnesium Malate 1300mg daily.
Hopefully the new MD will have some idea of where to go from here, that is, if he takes me on as a new patient. From what I've heard of him, he also advises that autoimmune diseases must be treated through diet changes, too, (such as gluten-free, sugar-free, dairy-free, etc. etc.) which is also something my NP advocates.
I haven't made up my mind on the diet/thryoid connection yet; I've read here that many people have tried gluten-free and hadn't noticed much of difference in symptoms. I guess I can't knock it til I've tried it, but can't say I'm looking forward to it.
I try to eat as healthfully as possible and avoid processed food. I'm not sure if going g-free is the answer, though it's been getting a lot of press. Personally, I like everything in moderation, but I guess that's old school thinking. I'm on the fence with the restrictive diets after so many other diet recommendations over the years have proven to be fads. Again, everyone is different, so if it works for some people, I'm not going to argue. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. What are your thoughts on the thyroid/diet connection?
Diagnosed at age 34 (now 55) with TSH over 170 by a psychiatrist due to depression.
GP at the time thought my problems were related to having post-partum depression and never checked thyroid levels. (Or anything else.) Per psychiatrist's recommendation, GP started me on Synthroid in 1992.
No other testing was ever done for Hashi's or Graves until this year. I've been on 100 Synthroid for the last ten years.
GP at the time thought my problems were related to having post-partum depression and never checked thyroid levels. (Or anything else.) Per psychiatrist's recommendation, GP started me on Synthroid in 1992.
No other testing was ever done for Hashi's or Graves until this year. I've been on 100 Synthroid for the last ten years.
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In Sept. on 90 mg of Armour, your labs show FT3 above middle of the range, but your FT4 at very bottom of range. For patients taking Armour, relief from hypo symptom usually is associated with having FT3 in the upper third of the range and FT4 around the middle of the range. Since you still have symptoms, there is plenty of room to raise your Armour, if necessary. You could also add a bit of T4 med to raise your FT4 toward middle of the range. One question I have here is whether you took your Armour med before blood draw for those tests?
One other area that I notice is the B12 is way over range. If this is due to taking supplements, then you should back off. Excess B12 can also cause symptoms.
"Side Effects of Too Much Vitamin B12
Because vitamin B12 is a water soluble vitamin, it is difficult to overdose or build up vitamin B12 toxicity. This is because excess amounts of water soluble vitamins not used by the body are typically excreted in the urine. While there aren't very many side effects of too much vitamin B12 to be concerned with, there are a few things you should be on the lookout for if you are supplementing vitamin B12.
•In rare cases, excess B12 supplementation may cause some numbness or tingling in the arm, hands and face.
•Excess vitamin B12 may contribute to anxiety symptoms such as panic attacks.
•Too much vitamin B12 may contribute to or cause insomnia.
•Prolonged excessive consumption of vitamin B12 may exacerbate the symptoms of mitral valve prolapse.
•Excess vitamin B12 intake may exacerbate hyperthyroidism.
•There appears to be a link between megadoses of vitamin B12 and certain cancers.
•Rashes may occur with excess B12 supplementation."
Just a few more comments. Don't let your doctor panic about a suppressed TSH. That is a very common occurrence with hypo patients taking significant doses of thyroid meds. There are many scientific studies proving that. My TSH has been less than .05 for well over 30 years, with no identified adverse effects.
Also, if not tested for Vitamin D, and magnesium, I would suggest those.