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Is this thyroiditis?
I have all the symptoms of thyroiditis (de quervains or whatever it's called). My thyroid is very sore to touch on one side giving pain going all the way to my ear. I have chronic constipation, chronic dry skin, tired all the time, irritable, chocking sensations sometimes, feel as if I've got fever, cold easily, have gained weight for no reason, pale skin, etc. I had symptoms of hyperthyroidism a few months ago that has now been replaced by the hypothyroidism symptoms. I'm currently in New Zealand where the medical system is extremely old fashioned and you have to fit their out-of-date boxes. Had to fight to get my blood tested last week and the results are:
TSH 2.98
Free T4 12.1 (told the range here is 10 - 24)
I have been told that the T4 is in the low normal range and the TSH is totally normal so there's nothing wrong. There is no other reason for the pain in my neck (thyroid) but they won't give me anything to help with the symptoms except Ibuprofen. I feel certain it's hypothyroidism as it fits perfectly but don't know what to do. Please help. In the wider world of decent medicine, are my results definitely normal? I've been reading up and many doctors seem to believe different things. I feel terrible all the time and the pain in my neck just isn't going away. Hope someone can help.
TSH 2.98
Free T4 12.1 (told the range here is 10 - 24)
I have been told that the T4 is in the low normal range and the TSH is totally normal so there's nothing wrong. There is no other reason for the pain in my neck (thyroid) but they won't give me anything to help with the symptoms except Ibuprofen. I feel certain it's hypothyroidism as it fits perfectly but don't know what to do. Please help. In the wider world of decent medicine, are my results definitely normal? I've been reading up and many doctors seem to believe different things. I feel terrible all the time and the pain in my neck just isn't going away. Hope someone can help.
Thanks for all of that. I've started iron tablets and intend stumping my doctor, too. That's not hard in New Zealand! They also have very low levels of selenium and iodine here and I'm hoping that supplements of these is going to help.
Thanks again and I'll be using the web page you sent.
Thanks again and I'll be using the web page you sent.
Came across a helpful page on thyroid antibodies:
http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/thyroid_antibodies/test.html
http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/thyroid_antibodies/test.html
I saw you mentioned about blood transfusion. I just wanted to mention that my Mom was having bad levels of things in her labwork and the doctor said if it didn't improve in a few weeks that she would need a blood transfusion. What she did was whip out her veggie/fruit juicer, and began juicing, mainly carrots. When she returned to the doctor, her levels were normal. The doctor was stumped and even asked what she did. So if it gets that bad for you, you do have options.
Yet more fantastic advice from you. I've checked up selenium and iodine levels in New Zealand and they are amongst the lowest in the world! I'm going to look into selenium supplements and, maybe, some small amounts of iodine although will be very careful with both. Thank you so much for that as I wouldn't have known this otherwise.
I have just checked a natural thyroid support dietary supplement that they sell here in New Zealand at the pharmacy and found it contains both of these ingredients, so I will start taking it. Thank you so much for this advice. It's expensive but well worth it if it helps.
It has been less than a week since I've been taking the thyroxine but I'm starting to feel a bit better. It may be coincidence, I don't know. My constant headache has gone down a lot of the time and my thyroid has become less sore with the pain along my jaw and ear gone. Maybe it's just the cycle of hypothyroidism that you were talking about or maybe the thyroxine is helping already? The long term will tell.
I've started to take iron tablets (Ferrograd C) and hope that they don't make the constipation even worse, although that has also improved in the last couple of days! The first time in a few months!
Thank you so very much again. Your advice is fantastic and you're making more sense than any doctor I've spoken to here!
Any more ideas would be greatly appreciated.
I have just checked a natural thyroid support dietary supplement that they sell here in New Zealand at the pharmacy and found it contains both of these ingredients, so I will start taking it. Thank you so much for this advice. It's expensive but well worth it if it helps.
It has been less than a week since I've been taking the thyroxine but I'm starting to feel a bit better. It may be coincidence, I don't know. My constant headache has gone down a lot of the time and my thyroid has become less sore with the pain along my jaw and ear gone. Maybe it's just the cycle of hypothyroidism that you were talking about or maybe the thyroxine is helping already? The long term will tell.
I've started to take iron tablets (Ferrograd C) and hope that they don't make the constipation even worse, although that has also improved in the last couple of days! The first time in a few months!
Thank you so very much again. Your advice is fantastic and you're making more sense than any doctor I've spoken to here!
Any more ideas would be greatly appreciated.
treatment on the autoimmune Hashi would not be much different. Meds are used for just thyroid hormones. They ignore proper supplementation and suppression of these antibodies to try and control them. They do that here and I suspect in many areas of the world that is ignored.
and on their side to a degree.. thyroid T4 medication can be helpful to some Hashimoto patients too.
I'd tell like to know if you are confirmed Hashimoto. It sounds like this doctor who "claims" you have it - is not of quality and really - Hashi's is difficult and the realm of learning how to treat - along with the learning of low thyroid is completely different for many,.
The TSH will swing to RAGE ( high) and the CRASH (low) with high episodes of a Hashimoto attack. - seriously take that year comment and throw that theory right out the window of credible information. That.... is false - doctor should surrender his medical license if that is what he believes.
You need the FREE T testing - and you will most likely fight like he// to make sure they will do that there. Don't except anything but the frees. or you will be wasting your time knowing.
Iron and Ferritin deficiencies are very commone with low thyroid and for some reason are worse for many with autoimmune disease. = Ferritin is a ubiquitous protein that stores iron and releases it in a controlled fashion. Iron consumption and the stored iron levels are usually measured and again the actual ferritin free release is ignored. You can however try supplements to see of you can fix some of these issues. Dear LORD!!! a foreign blood transfusion for anemia - How crucified? Run from that moran!
No the Hashimoto is not the cause of low iron - plays a part but not the culprit. Hypothyroidism is and low FT3 w/ bad conversion. Even through the body works all together sometimes we have to take each symptom and correct it seperately for a wholesome healthy outcome.
You may have to do a few corerctive changes with yourself to get you better. Eventually - you will need to find a good doctor and you need to make that a priority now. The thyroiditis is swelling - or inflammation of the sick gland - yep Hashi attack - simmer the attack - that is what you need to research.. You can google supplementating w/ selenium. Many find that it helps. Another is iodine... there is huge caution on iodine - espeically w/ Hashimoto so you should consult the right doctor to advice you on this treatment. More often than not in Hashimoto - it backfired - but for the ones that do well w/ it - it sometimes reverses the whole situation of low thyroid for them. Very - very cautionable supplement therapy through - keep that in mind.
estrogen abnormalities are common - low thyroid too for some.. Testing may help w/ that and looking at plant based supplements could change up the iron issues too.
and on their side to a degree.. thyroid T4 medication can be helpful to some Hashimoto patients too.
I'd tell like to know if you are confirmed Hashimoto. It sounds like this doctor who "claims" you have it - is not of quality and really - Hashi's is difficult and the realm of learning how to treat - along with the learning of low thyroid is completely different for many,.
The TSH will swing to RAGE ( high) and the CRASH (low) with high episodes of a Hashimoto attack. - seriously take that year comment and throw that theory right out the window of credible information. That.... is false - doctor should surrender his medical license if that is what he believes.
You need the FREE T testing - and you will most likely fight like he// to make sure they will do that there. Don't except anything but the frees. or you will be wasting your time knowing.
Iron and Ferritin deficiencies are very commone with low thyroid and for some reason are worse for many with autoimmune disease. = Ferritin is a ubiquitous protein that stores iron and releases it in a controlled fashion. Iron consumption and the stored iron levels are usually measured and again the actual ferritin free release is ignored. You can however try supplements to see of you can fix some of these issues. Dear LORD!!! a foreign blood transfusion for anemia - How crucified? Run from that moran!
No the Hashimoto is not the cause of low iron - plays a part but not the culprit. Hypothyroidism is and low FT3 w/ bad conversion. Even through the body works all together sometimes we have to take each symptom and correct it seperately for a wholesome healthy outcome.
You may have to do a few corerctive changes with yourself to get you better. Eventually - you will need to find a good doctor and you need to make that a priority now. The thyroiditis is swelling - or inflammation of the sick gland - yep Hashi attack - simmer the attack - that is what you need to research.. You can google supplementating w/ selenium. Many find that it helps. Another is iodine... there is huge caution on iodine - espeically w/ Hashimoto so you should consult the right doctor to advice you on this treatment. More often than not in Hashimoto - it backfired - but for the ones that do well w/ it - it sometimes reverses the whole situation of low thyroid for them. Very - very cautionable supplement therapy through - keep that in mind.
estrogen abnormalities are common - low thyroid too for some.. Testing may help w/ that and looking at plant based supplements could change up the iron issues too.
Thanks so much for that Stella. The doctor has said that there are definitely antibodies but, in her opinion, that is irrelevant. I went to see another doctor who said that in New Zealand the ONLY important thing is the TSH. Fortunately, I have a friend in Australia who's a doctor and she said that in Australia they now say that the TSH doesn't go up for up to a year after Hashimoto's starts so the New Zealanders are really backward. She has told me to take 50 micrograms of Thyroxine daily and to say that I was diagnosed in Australia. I've done this. I had to go to yet another doctor. My friend says that she wants the T4 and T3 as well as TSH done again in six weeks. When I saw the third doctor here, however, she said that they only test every 6 months, even with a new diagnosis, and then only the TSH!
Thank you so much for all of that information. I will definitely be using everything you said and will have to take my own health, with my Aussie doctor friend's help, into my own hands.
The NZ doctor today said that I'm anaemic and wanted me to have a blood transfusion! I called my friend in Australia who was shocked at this backward way of doing things. The thyroiditis (I agree that it's probably Hashimoto's) has caused heavy and long periods causing the anaemia, but as they won't officially diagnose it here they seems to think it being caused by other problems. I hate it here!
Thanks again Stella.
Chris
Thank you so much for all of that information. I will definitely be using everything you said and will have to take my own health, with my Aussie doctor friend's help, into my own hands.
The NZ doctor today said that I'm anaemic and wanted me to have a blood transfusion! I called my friend in Australia who was shocked at this backward way of doing things. The thyroiditis (I agree that it's probably Hashimoto's) has caused heavy and long periods causing the anaemia, but as they won't officially diagnose it here they seems to think it being caused by other problems. I hate it here!
Thanks again Stella.
Chris
where is this positive antibody testing report. You have nothing in your above labs that confirm this?
The reason why you are not being taken serious - or for better words not being treated is "classically" you still have a lower TSH than what this doctor "may" warrant as a "real" thyroid condition. Especially over in the area you are in. If you can get a copy of your lab report and look at it, check out the reference ranges on the TSH. You may be under the norm of BAD reference ranges that many see over in that area.
In America the reference range scale changed from {.4 - 5.5 } - to .{ 3 - 3.0 } - but many still here in the states fight to get their doctors to use the right scale and many - (millions) are still left untreated - especially with antibodies being positive... and to make the issue even worse... sometime even using the TSH lab is NOT the right thing to use to really diagnois REAL thyroid disease - ( again.. ESPECIALLY w/ antibodies or the disease called Hashimoto hypothyroidism)
Most Hashimoto patients ( patients w/ these TPOab and TgAb antibodies) cannot go above a TSH of 1.0 or they are miserable with symptoms. If you for sure, do have these antibodies then the TSH can be taken serious and it is visable why you are miserable right now. Again, it all about the knowledge of the doctor and how he/she feels about treating the disease. Thyroidians all over the world find the way Hashi is treated is all about the doctor's belief - not so much about how the patient is really feeling. If this doctor is a TSH worshipper and only treats on this lab - and - believes that he/she won't treat with anything less than a 10.0 number - you could be in a very bad position with thyroid care and could spend a long time in a bad way until your TSH climbs to the point of his treatment beliefs.
I can see the writings on the wall already - based off what you have posted about you being taken serious at this doctors office. Frankly, just being told there was antibodies positive tests done and you not having the information - but you have the TSH and FT4 tests available, tells me this doctor may be only assuming you have antibodies. I say that b/c most doctors see a climbing TSH and assume antibodies are the culprit - but the tests really weren't done... I hope I am wrong on your case.
With actual Hashimoto/hypothyroid - it has to be taken as 2 seperate things to a degree. Thyroid medication will not control antibodies attacking the gland and many Hashi patients stay in a spike and dip cycle of hormones w/ these antibodies and treating by thyroid medicines is very difficult for a patient to stay stable. Yet really - the only available treatment used in the majority for Hashimoto - IS the use of thyroxine or other name brands of T4 - found all over the world. Its a myth that all cases of Hashimoto treated w/ T4 or even a T3/T4 combo med will control the condition until the thyroid dies off completely w/ these antibodies. Suppression first to tame ( stable) the antibodies should be used - along with using thyroxine T4 or combo med to allow the suffering paitent a better long term outlet - until eventually the process of the Hashi attack is over.
The reason why you are not being taken serious - or for better words not being treated is "classically" you still have a lower TSH than what this doctor "may" warrant as a "real" thyroid condition. Especially over in the area you are in. If you can get a copy of your lab report and look at it, check out the reference ranges on the TSH. You may be under the norm of BAD reference ranges that many see over in that area.
In America the reference range scale changed from {.4 - 5.5 } - to .{ 3 - 3.0 } - but many still here in the states fight to get their doctors to use the right scale and many - (millions) are still left untreated - especially with antibodies being positive... and to make the issue even worse... sometime even using the TSH lab is NOT the right thing to use to really diagnois REAL thyroid disease - ( again.. ESPECIALLY w/ antibodies or the disease called Hashimoto hypothyroidism)
Most Hashimoto patients ( patients w/ these TPOab and TgAb antibodies) cannot go above a TSH of 1.0 or they are miserable with symptoms. If you for sure, do have these antibodies then the TSH can be taken serious and it is visable why you are miserable right now. Again, it all about the knowledge of the doctor and how he/she feels about treating the disease. Thyroidians all over the world find the way Hashi is treated is all about the doctor's belief - not so much about how the patient is really feeling. If this doctor is a TSH worshipper and only treats on this lab - and - believes that he/she won't treat with anything less than a 10.0 number - you could be in a very bad position with thyroid care and could spend a long time in a bad way until your TSH climbs to the point of his treatment beliefs.
I can see the writings on the wall already - based off what you have posted about you being taken serious at this doctors office. Frankly, just being told there was antibodies positive tests done and you not having the information - but you have the TSH and FT4 tests available, tells me this doctor may be only assuming you have antibodies. I say that b/c most doctors see a climbing TSH and assume antibodies are the culprit - but the tests really weren't done... I hope I am wrong on your case.
With actual Hashimoto/hypothyroid - it has to be taken as 2 seperate things to a degree. Thyroid medication will not control antibodies attacking the gland and many Hashi patients stay in a spike and dip cycle of hormones w/ these antibodies and treating by thyroid medicines is very difficult for a patient to stay stable. Yet really - the only available treatment used in the majority for Hashimoto - IS the use of thyroxine or other name brands of T4 - found all over the world. Its a myth that all cases of Hashimoto treated w/ T4 or even a T3/T4 combo med will control the condition until the thyroid dies off completely w/ these antibodies. Suppression first to tame ( stable) the antibodies should be used - along with using thyroxine T4 or combo med to allow the suffering paitent a better long term outlet - until eventually the process of the Hashi attack is over.
Thanks Stella.
I was told today that they did do an antibody test and it was positive. I was told that this confused them but they have still refused to treat me as I don't fit their box. They have refused any further testing. I don't know what to do. The medical system here doesn't give much choice of doctor and the system ties their hands anyway.
I've started on a natural supplement that is supposed to help thyroid function but, apparently, it contains rat poison that is banned in the rest of the western world! I'm seriously thinking of lying to another doctor to get thyroxine (is that it?) by saying that I was diagnosed before coming to New Zealand. I can then get myself re-tested and keep an eye on my levels myself. Trouble is, I don't want to under or over medicate!
I'm feeling so ill I've got to do something and anything other advice would be great. Do you know about the positive antibodies and if this is a strong indication?
Hope you can help and thanks again.
Chris
I was told today that they did do an antibody test and it was positive. I was told that this confused them but they have still refused to treat me as I don't fit their box. They have refused any further testing. I don't know what to do. The medical system here doesn't give much choice of doctor and the system ties their hands anyway.
I've started on a natural supplement that is supposed to help thyroid function but, apparently, it contains rat poison that is banned in the rest of the western world! I'm seriously thinking of lying to another doctor to get thyroxine (is that it?) by saying that I was diagnosed before coming to New Zealand. I can then get myself re-tested and keep an eye on my levels myself. Trouble is, I don't want to under or over medicate!
I'm feeling so ill I've got to do something and anything other advice would be great. Do you know about the positive antibodies and if this is a strong indication?
Hope you can help and thanks again.
Chris
You need antibody testing with chronic thyroiditis and possiblity an ultra sound
Call your doctor after you read up on antibodies and talk over getting the TPOab and TgAb testing. Ultra Sound should follow if labs warrant this.
With the minimal labs you had done I would suspect Hashimoto could be looked at but again those labs above could best tell. With your hypo symptoms that you posted and the 2 labs you had done - it does point to you maybe benefiting from a form of thyroid replacement to see if that helps too. Keep in mind the Free t3 lab is best to know if you are low or high with thyroid function and they ignored giving you that test too.
anti inflammatories is common to prescribe with thyroiditis and really it can be the best way to reduce the aggravation. The only thing is if you are producing low thyroid hormone which I think is happeneing here, then the Afvil or ?? - won't do a thing to get you back into producing the correct amounts your body requires.
Call your doctor after you read up on antibodies and talk over getting the TPOab and TgAb testing. Ultra Sound should follow if labs warrant this.
With the minimal labs you had done I would suspect Hashimoto could be looked at but again those labs above could best tell. With your hypo symptoms that you posted and the 2 labs you had done - it does point to you maybe benefiting from a form of thyroid replacement to see if that helps too. Keep in mind the Free t3 lab is best to know if you are low or high with thyroid function and they ignored giving you that test too.
anti inflammatories is common to prescribe with thyroiditis and really it can be the best way to reduce the aggravation. The only thing is if you are producing low thyroid hormone which I think is happeneing here, then the Afvil or ?? - won't do a thing to get you back into producing the correct amounts your body requires.
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