Aa
Magic dose
How exactly does this thyroid thing work? Do you reach a "magical" dose that takes your symptoms away?
I'm currently taking 2.5 grains of armour. I've been at this dose for 3 weeks. I get labs in 3 more weeks. I don't feel one bit better. I'm still fatigued, no motivation, feeling weak, loads of brain fog, hair loss........
Will I reach some magical dose, like maybe 3 grains, and POOF! My symptoms will disappear. Is that how it works?
I'm currently taking 2.5 grains of armour. I've been at this dose for 3 weeks. I get labs in 3 more weeks. I don't feel one bit better. I'm still fatigued, no motivation, feeling weak, loads of brain fog, hair loss........
Will I reach some magical dose, like maybe 3 grains, and POOF! My symptoms will disappear. Is that how it works?
I just spoke to a nurse at my thyroid clinic.
She told me not to worry or give up hope. She said many people don't feel one lick better until they are optimized. She also said that my 2.5 grains wasn't a very big dose. They have plenty of people who take 4 or even 5 grains.
And......it could take 6 months to a year to balance a thyroid!
Bottom line is I need to be more patient. It's just so hard after feeling so sick for so long. I'm sure you all understand how I feel.
She told me not to worry or give up hope. She said many people don't feel one lick better until they are optimized. She also said that my 2.5 grains wasn't a very big dose. They have plenty of people who take 4 or even 5 grains.
And......it could take 6 months to a year to balance a thyroid!
Bottom line is I need to be more patient. It's just so hard after feeling so sick for so long. I'm sure you all understand how I feel.
I was just reading success stories on STTM. It seems most people needed 3.5-5 grains to feel better. Again, that was *most*. Some may do fine on less, but I didn't see any on that site.
Hopefully I can get on a larger dose after labs and things will improve. I can only hope.
Hopefully I can get on a larger dose after labs and things will improve. I can only hope.
this is great help to me because you describe my situation.
Unfourtune, that I may have been hypo, thinking it was chronic pain, Tramadol, my matress, (it was Kidneys), eveything then I felt and thought and nailed it asking for the blood test, yet loooong rrrroad to recovery for me.
Test suggest for levels has been 6 months but not going for that when I see my edndochronologist.
Unfourtune, that I may have been hypo, thinking it was chronic pain, Tramadol, my matress, (it was Kidneys), eveything then I felt and thought and nailed it asking for the blood test, yet loooong rrrroad to recovery for me.
Test suggest for levels has been 6 months but not going for that when I see my edndochronologist.
I totally agree with your doctor's feelings about TSH. However, any doctor who ignores FT3 is almost as bad as one who treats by TSH alone. Once a patient is on meds containing T3, it becomes irresponsible not to test it. Keep insisting on FT3.
FF........
I hope you are right, and that my continued symptoms are from under treated hypo and not CFS. I only take 2.5 grains. I keep reading that many folks need 3-5 grains to alleviate symptoms. Maybe I just need a few more dose increases.
For now, I will *try on* the 2.5 grain dose size. After 6 weeks I will have some labs. My Houston doc does not even order TSH. He said it was a useless test. Oddly enough he only orders FT4. I had to request the FT3. Which he was fine with. I will post my new results in a few weeks and see what you all think.
It is so hard to feel sick and tired every single day. I'm at the end of my rope. Lol.
I hope you are right, and that my continued symptoms are from under treated hypo and not CFS. I only take 2.5 grains. I keep reading that many folks need 3-5 grains to alleviate symptoms. Maybe I just need a few more dose increases.
For now, I will *try on* the 2.5 grain dose size. After 6 weeks I will have some labs. My Houston doc does not even order TSH. He said it was a useless test. Oddly enough he only orders FT4. I had to request the FT3. Which he was fine with. I will post my new results in a few weeks and see what you all think.
It is so hard to feel sick and tired every single day. I'm at the end of my rope. Lol.
Chronic fatigue syndrome did not even exist prior to the invention and the total belief in the TSH test.
As TSH was believed to be the holy grail of thyroid function. Once that useless test had a result that was within the reference range, the Dr's would rule out low thyroid as being the cause.
But then primarily women would continue to have now "unexplained" symptoms, so they invented a name for it. Chroinc fatigue syndrome. Similarly also was Fibromyliga (spelling???).
Just so happens that BOTH of these new diseases or syndromes only came into existance or prevelent AFTER TSH test was in widespread use. Also interesting is that the symptoms list of low thyroid just happen to include the symptoms of these now named "syndromes" or conditions.
And "they" are now finding out that people with Fibro when given thyroid medications, their symptoms are relieved.
WOW! Who knew?
Long ago Dr's would look at a patinets symptoms and clinical presentation. They would diagnois them and prescribe medicine. And they would adjust the medicine by the clinical response in symptoms.
Today with all the sue happy lawyers and high tech medical lab tests, Dr's today are too afraid to do anything that literally is not exactly to the numbers. To heck with how the patient is feeling, as long as the lab results tell them they are in range they don't want to do anything for fear of being sued.
In our experience we cannot even get a Dr to increase dosage to even get to the MIDDLE of the range? You'd think there would be plenty of safety from being sued in order to get the Free T4 to only the middle of the range. It's not like we are asking to go "out of bounds". It is crazy!
As TSH was believed to be the holy grail of thyroid function. Once that useless test had a result that was within the reference range, the Dr's would rule out low thyroid as being the cause.
But then primarily women would continue to have now "unexplained" symptoms, so they invented a name for it. Chroinc fatigue syndrome. Similarly also was Fibromyliga (spelling???).
Just so happens that BOTH of these new diseases or syndromes only came into existance or prevelent AFTER TSH test was in widespread use. Also interesting is that the symptoms list of low thyroid just happen to include the symptoms of these now named "syndromes" or conditions.
And "they" are now finding out that people with Fibro when given thyroid medications, their symptoms are relieved.
WOW! Who knew?
Long ago Dr's would look at a patinets symptoms and clinical presentation. They would diagnois them and prescribe medicine. And they would adjust the medicine by the clinical response in symptoms.
Today with all the sue happy lawyers and high tech medical lab tests, Dr's today are too afraid to do anything that literally is not exactly to the numbers. To heck with how the patient is feeling, as long as the lab results tell them they are in range they don't want to do anything for fear of being sued.
In our experience we cannot even get a Dr to increase dosage to even get to the MIDDLE of the range? You'd think there would be plenty of safety from being sued in order to get the Free T4 to only the middle of the range. It's not like we are asking to go "out of bounds". It is crazy!
Both ferritin and D are well up in the ranges? As with thyroid hormone levels, just being in the bottom of the range isn't sufficient. Both ferritin and D have to be well up in the ranges in order for T3 to be able to get into cells and do its work.
B-12 should also be up there. In some countries B-12 range starts at 500. From what I've heard, fatigue from B-12 deficiency is much worse than from thyroid.
I wouldn't jump right to CFS. As far as I'm concerned that's a catchall diagnosis that means "we don't know what's wrong with you, and we don't care to look any further".
B-12 should also be up there. In some countries B-12 range starts at 500. From what I've heard, fatigue from B-12 deficiency is much worse than from thyroid.
I wouldn't jump right to CFS. As far as I'm concerned that's a catchall diagnosis that means "we don't know what's wrong with you, and we don't care to look any further".
Thank you flying fool. That was a great explanation. Maybe I'll feel better once my levels get up a little.
Iron, cortisol, d3, and B12 are all fine. I supplement.
I was worried that you were going to say that most people notice improvements along the way. I don't notice anything. I may as well be popping candy instead of thyroid meds.
Maybe I don't have a thyroid problem and its chronic fatigue syndrome instead.
I was worried that you were going to say that most people notice improvements along the way. I don't notice anything. I may as well be popping candy instead of thyroid meds.
Maybe I don't have a thyroid problem and its chronic fatigue syndrome instead.
Most of us feel improvements along the way.
You'll know a lot more in a couple of weeks when you see your labs.
Have you had vitamin and mineral levels tested?
You'll know a lot more in a couple of weeks when you see your labs.
Have you had vitamin and mineral levels tested?
Symptoms can lag blood labs. Some times for weeks.
The "rule of thumb" if you've read much here at all you might have seen is to have BOTH of the following to feel well. This too is only a rule of Thumb and everyone feels different at different levels. But this is a guide that seems to be a much better target in order to feel well.
1) Free T4 in the middle of the range (50%). You are currently testing at 47% of the range which is really pretty good. Especially for someone who is on natural Dessicated Thyroid (NDT)
AND- this means in addition to
2) Free T3 to be in the UPPER 1/3 of the range (66.7%) You are testing at only 43.7%.
Since NDT has quite a bit of T3 in it compared to human thyroid production, it would appear there is still room for a possible increase. However I would be cautious in that it appears that you have made several adjustement pretty quickly being ever 2 to 3 weeks. My recommendation would be to hold the dosage steady for 4 to 6 weeks and see how things settle out. You could becomeing closer to optimization so you need to aproach that carefully like approaching a cliff. Because you really don't want to take too much and fall into Hyper.
Your body's cells only use the Free T3. So ultimately that seems to be priority #1 and most directly linked to symptoms. However some people on NDT often have their T3 high in the range and their FT4 are very low in the range and they too feel bad. You seem to not have that problem. So again my layman's recommendation is to slow down with adjustments and be patient and take things slowly. See what happens and you MAY findout that they symptoms are lagging. Also your FT3 levels can rise for a while after a dosage as the conversion of the FT4 into FT3 occurs w hich can take weeks. So you may reach optimization as a result of that conversion. And if you hurried too fast and took another increase, it can then cause you to go Hyper.
Slow and sure is the way to go here. You seem to be reaching the realm where treatment and dosage becomes more "art" than "science".
The "rule of thumb" if you've read much here at all you might have seen is to have BOTH of the following to feel well. This too is only a rule of Thumb and everyone feels different at different levels. But this is a guide that seems to be a much better target in order to feel well.
1) Free T4 in the middle of the range (50%). You are currently testing at 47% of the range which is really pretty good. Especially for someone who is on natural Dessicated Thyroid (NDT)
AND- this means in addition to
2) Free T3 to be in the UPPER 1/3 of the range (66.7%) You are testing at only 43.7%.
Since NDT has quite a bit of T3 in it compared to human thyroid production, it would appear there is still room for a possible increase. However I would be cautious in that it appears that you have made several adjustement pretty quickly being ever 2 to 3 weeks. My recommendation would be to hold the dosage steady for 4 to 6 weeks and see how things settle out. You could becomeing closer to optimization so you need to aproach that carefully like approaching a cliff. Because you really don't want to take too much and fall into Hyper.
Your body's cells only use the Free T3. So ultimately that seems to be priority #1 and most directly linked to symptoms. However some people on NDT often have their T3 high in the range and their FT4 are very low in the range and they too feel bad. You seem to not have that problem. So again my layman's recommendation is to slow down with adjustments and be patient and take things slowly. See what happens and you MAY findout that they symptoms are lagging. Also your FT3 levels can rise for a while after a dosage as the conversion of the FT4 into FT3 occurs w hich can take weeks. So you may reach optimization as a result of that conversion. And if you hurried too fast and took another increase, it can then cause you to go Hyper.
Slow and sure is the way to go here. You seem to be reaching the realm where treatment and dosage becomes more "art" than "science".
My last labs were in January and I was at 75 mgs. It took me 1 year to reach that dose.
FT4 1.09 (.76-1.46)
FT3 3.12 (2.3-4.2)
Since January, I have raised my armour 15 mgs every 2-3 weeks until I reached 2.5. My symptoms have not improved at all along the way. I will stay at this dose for another few weeks to get labs.
I have a good doctor. I flew to Houston to Dr. Hotze's clinic.
My big concern is, why don't I feel any improvements? Does that only happen once you are optimized?
FT4 1.09 (.76-1.46)
FT3 3.12 (2.3-4.2)
Since January, I have raised my armour 15 mgs every 2-3 weeks until I reached 2.5. My symptoms have not improved at all along the way. I will stay at this dose for another few weeks to get labs.
I have a good doctor. I flew to Houston to Dr. Hotze's clinic.
My big concern is, why don't I feel any improvements? Does that only happen once you are optimized?
There's very seldom a POOF. Recovering from hypo is a process. You have to get your levels high enough for you personally, and then it takes your body time to heal. How long that takes depends to some extent on how long you were hypo and how many symptoms you'd accumulated.
However, most people do start to feel some symptom relief, especially when taking T3, along the way to the optimal dose. This can be subtle, so it's often best to keep a symptom log. You may not realize that symptoms are lessening until you look back a few weeks and see that you needed a nap five time that week, but this week it was only three times.
The POOF can happen, but it often involves overmedication, and I can tell you from experience that is NOT the way to go.
How long have you been on meds altogether? I know I've seen them before, but could you refresh my memory by posting your most recent with ranges?
However, most people do start to feel some symptom relief, especially when taking T3, along the way to the optimal dose. This can be subtle, so it's often best to keep a symptom log. You may not realize that symptoms are lessening until you look back a few weeks and see that you needed a nap five time that week, but this week it was only three times.
The POOF can happen, but it often involves overmedication, and I can tell you from experience that is NOT the way to go.
How long have you been on meds altogether? I know I've seen them before, but could you refresh my memory by posting your most recent with ranges?
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