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More research connecting gluten to thryoid disease
This article is from Mary Shomon, thyroid patient advocate.
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/latestresearch/a/celiac.htm
Many of you know my antibody attacks quit after I quit gluten. Though I know the GF diet isn't for everyone, keep in mind that gluten be the source of your thyroid disease.
:) Tamra
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/latestresearch/a/celiac.htm
Many of you know my antibody attacks quit after I quit gluten. Though I know the GF diet isn't for everyone, keep in mind that gluten be the source of your thyroid disease.
:) Tamra
Quoting from the article:
"The researchers studied 172 patients with autoimmune thyroid disease, and two control groups, and found that the 3.4% of patients with autoimmune thyroiditis had celiac disease, and the prevalence was only 0.6% and 0.25% among the control groups. The study also found that undiagnosed celiac disease may actually be part of the process that triggers an underlying autoimmune disease. In their findings they wrote: "We believe that undiagnosed celiac disease can cause other disorders by switching on some as yet unknown immunological mechanism. Untreated celiac patients produce organ-specific autoantibodies."
"Of perhaps greatest importance to thyroid patients, the researchers found that the various antibodies that indicate celiac disease - organ-specific autoantibodies (i.e., thyroid antibodies) -- will disappear after 3 to 6 months of a gluten-free diet."
Paragraph 1 above merely states what we all know already...once you have one autoimmune disease, you are more likely than the general population to develop another...that's a given. Do you have a link to the original text of this study? On what do they base their belief that undiagnosed celiac can cause other disorders? I see no reference to how this conclusion was drawn.
Likewise, paragraph 2 above...I'd have to see the study...how many subjects (the same 172? or was that a different group?), etc. Where are the results of the controlled study (one group eating gluten, one not) indicating how many from each group had antibodies "disappear after 3 to 6 months"? What controls were applied to the two groups?
You will also note that the discussion is about autoimmune celieac disease, not simple "gluten intolerance", which does not involve antibodies. I don't know how you extrapolate from this that a g/f diet will benefit those with Hashi's who are simply intolerant and further extrapolate that someone who neither has celiac nor is gluten intolerant is going to benefit. If there is a common link here, it's antibodies, and without confirmed celiac, there are no autoimmune antibodies involved.
With or without Hashi's, someone with celiac is going to have to scrupulously avoid gluten for the rest of their lives.
BTW, what was your antibody count before going g/f, and what is it now?
"The researchers studied 172 patients with autoimmune thyroid disease, and two control groups, and found that the 3.4% of patients with autoimmune thyroiditis had celiac disease, and the prevalence was only 0.6% and 0.25% among the control groups. The study also found that undiagnosed celiac disease may actually be part of the process that triggers an underlying autoimmune disease. In their findings they wrote: "We believe that undiagnosed celiac disease can cause other disorders by switching on some as yet unknown immunological mechanism. Untreated celiac patients produce organ-specific autoantibodies."
"Of perhaps greatest importance to thyroid patients, the researchers found that the various antibodies that indicate celiac disease - organ-specific autoantibodies (i.e., thyroid antibodies) -- will disappear after 3 to 6 months of a gluten-free diet."
Paragraph 1 above merely states what we all know already...once you have one autoimmune disease, you are more likely than the general population to develop another...that's a given. Do you have a link to the original text of this study? On what do they base their belief that undiagnosed celiac can cause other disorders? I see no reference to how this conclusion was drawn.
Likewise, paragraph 2 above...I'd have to see the study...how many subjects (the same 172? or was that a different group?), etc. Where are the results of the controlled study (one group eating gluten, one not) indicating how many from each group had antibodies "disappear after 3 to 6 months"? What controls were applied to the two groups?
You will also note that the discussion is about autoimmune celieac disease, not simple "gluten intolerance", which does not involve antibodies. I don't know how you extrapolate from this that a g/f diet will benefit those with Hashi's who are simply intolerant and further extrapolate that someone who neither has celiac nor is gluten intolerant is going to benefit. If there is a common link here, it's antibodies, and without confirmed celiac, there are no autoimmune antibodies involved.
With or without Hashi's, someone with celiac is going to have to scrupulously avoid gluten for the rest of their lives.
BTW, what was your antibody count before going g/f, and what is it now?
thanks for posting this link TamraW, I'm guessing that there's a typo in Mary's article and what she means to report is that:
"....3.4% of patients with autoimmune thyroiditis had celiac disease, and the prevalence was only 0.6% and 0.25% among the control groups...."
it is a small sample to be considered statistically significant but still really interesting, i think.
If I can muster the energy will check out the source journal she quotes and presume the link to the original research document will be there.
I finally saw an endocrinologist this week, after months of waitiing, and she is going to test me for celiac.
I'm wondering is whether there may be some kind of borderline (maybe subclinical) version of the disease that doesn't give such extreme symptoms as full blown celiac but does mean that gluten causes problems. Perhaps I just mean intolerance....it's a new subject for me I'm only starting to explore. I'm still resisting trialing a gluten free diet as it's such a radical step but my Endo did say it might be worth a try...she hadn't heard of Dr Kharrazzion so I couldn't ask what she thought of his book...I still feel like I'm feeling my way in the dark and it's so good to have this forum to hear what other people are considering...
hmmmm, all info is good and food for though, thanks for sharing.....
hope you're well at the moment. xx
"....3.4% of patients with autoimmune thyroiditis had celiac disease, and the prevalence was only 0.6% and 0.25% among the control groups...."
it is a small sample to be considered statistically significant but still really interesting, i think.
If I can muster the energy will check out the source journal she quotes and presume the link to the original research document will be there.
I finally saw an endocrinologist this week, after months of waitiing, and she is going to test me for celiac.
I'm wondering is whether there may be some kind of borderline (maybe subclinical) version of the disease that doesn't give such extreme symptoms as full blown celiac but does mean that gluten causes problems. Perhaps I just mean intolerance....it's a new subject for me I'm only starting to explore. I'm still resisting trialing a gluten free diet as it's such a radical step but my Endo did say it might be worth a try...she hadn't heard of Dr Kharrazzion so I couldn't ask what she thought of his book...I still feel like I'm feeling my way in the dark and it's so good to have this forum to hear what other people are considering...
hmmmm, all info is good and food for though, thanks for sharing.....
hope you're well at the moment. xx
if you're going to be tested for celiac disease, you need to make sure you are consuming gluten, because if you are gluten free, the antibodies that they test for will not be being produced. I was just diagnosed with celiac last year and was diagnosed with Hashi's in childhood - celiac just went undiagnosed until I asked my dr to test for it. I didn't really have major symptoms - mainly inability to gain weight, fatigue, diarrhea without the pain usually associated with it, and poor immune system - yet all my antibodies were very high. not everyone with celiac has the awful symptoms, that's why so many people go undiagnosed for so long. I hope you get an answer!
oooh, thank you Jennarie, I didn't know that. I have been eating gluten so that's okay as the test was on Monday.I might get the results tomorrow. I work with a girl who is celiac and did have major symptoms so I thought, in my ignorance, that would be the case for everyone who had it nd kind of assumed that it couldn't apply to me although I definately get the sense that some gluten containing food doesn't really work for me. I will do some reading up now.
I have not had a problem gaining weight, the opposite unfortunately, I've put on around 20 lbs since this whole thing started, though I was super slim to start with so I'm not huge now, it is annoying. Fatigue, poor immune system and upset bowels definately resonate though.
thank you for sharing your experience!
I have not had a problem gaining weight, the opposite unfortunately, I've put on around 20 lbs since this whole thing started, though I was super slim to start with so I'm not huge now, it is annoying. Fatigue, poor immune system and upset bowels definately resonate though.
thank you for sharing your experience!
I have Hashimotos and this last year came up IGG positive for gluten intolerance.
I stopped eating gluten and my heavy periods went away. I know that my antibodies are also a lot lower since quitting it too.
I stopped eating gluten and my heavy periods went away. I know that my antibodies are also a lot lower since quitting it too.
Wow aaamommy I now can't wait to see the results of that test! I have super heavy periods too....
I have just read these postings and have to ask the obvious question.....
Who has had antibody testing down at diagnosis and recently?
I dont have Hashi's but do have Graves Disease and at diagnosis my antibodies were over 4000 (yes four thousand)....12 months after RAI and TT my antibodies were <30 ..basically in remission.
Sometimes people confuse 'wellness and feeling good' as the antibodies being in remission...this is not always the case.
I have researched and found that Selenium is 'supposed' to lower antibody levels in Hashi's and I say 'supposed' as there are yet no 100% foolproof studies to prove that.
Going by what I have researched for the last 3 years...the only way I know of antibodies going into remission is.....removal of the thyroid or ablation.
In March this year, I was tested for 'other' autoimmune diseases and it was found there were none but that doesnt mean to say that somwehere down the line, I wont get another autoimmune disease ...just as a Diabetic doesnt get rid of Diabetes..I believe we have antibodies for life regardless of what we eat or what supplements we do and do not take.
Who has had antibody testing down at diagnosis and recently?
I dont have Hashi's but do have Graves Disease and at diagnosis my antibodies were over 4000 (yes four thousand)....12 months after RAI and TT my antibodies were <30 ..basically in remission.
Sometimes people confuse 'wellness and feeling good' as the antibodies being in remission...this is not always the case.
I have researched and found that Selenium is 'supposed' to lower antibody levels in Hashi's and I say 'supposed' as there are yet no 100% foolproof studies to prove that.
Going by what I have researched for the last 3 years...the only way I know of antibodies going into remission is.....removal of the thyroid or ablation.
In March this year, I was tested for 'other' autoimmune diseases and it was found there were none but that doesnt mean to say that somwehere down the line, I wont get another autoimmune disease ...just as a Diabetic doesnt get rid of Diabetes..I believe we have antibodies for life regardless of what we eat or what supplements we do and do not take.
well I was referring to the anti-gliadin antibodies produced in those who have celiac disease. when someone has this disease, their body only produces the antibodies when they consume gluten. if they eat gluten free, the trigger for the antibodies is no longer present in their body, therefore the antibodies are no longer produced. this is why the stomach is able to eventually heal from the damage the antibodies caused after they remove gluten from their diet. that's what's unique about this disease - the antibodies are a response to something you consume (resulting in at attack on the small intestine) rather than to something you cannot easily get rid of (like your thyroid gland). hope that explains it!
Thats interesting...that IGg antibodies can be suppressed through NOT eating Wheat and/or Gluten.
Anti-gliadin, anti-endomysium, and anti-transglutaminase antibodys are the main antibodys in Celiac and these are what are tested for in Celiac Disease.
There are several steps that take place to generate an immune response and it takes time both for the positive reaction when gluten is present and to clear the antibodies when gluten is eliminated. There has been a great deal of discussion about how much and how long a challenge should be and there is no consensus.
The minimum is 2 slices of bread per day for 6 weeks to get an accurate test. There are basically four tests that can be performed to aid in diagnosing celiac disease. Notice that I say they will aid in diagnosing celiac disease. Immunology is fairly accurate but it is far from being an exact science. All of the lab tests, regardless of the type or source, are presented as aids to diagnosis. They should not be used alone as a basis for diagnosis but rather are intended to be considered in conjunction with the physical examination of the patient as well as the reported symptoms, etc. by a trained physician. There has been a great deal of confusion about what the tests are and I hope to alleviate some of the misunderstandings. There are many terms that we hear. tTG, IgA, IgG, ELISA, etc.
We all have, within our bodies, a family of closely related although not identical proteins which are capable of acting as antibodies. These are collectively referred to as immunoglobulins. Five major types of immunoglobulins are normally present in the human adult. They are IgG, IgA, IgM, IgE and IgD. Each of these is a shorthand way of writing immunoglobulin gamma G (or A or M, etc.) and they each perform a different function in our systems. IgG is the principal immunoglobulin in human serum. It is important in providing immunity in a developing fetus because it will pass across the placental barrier. IgA is the principal immunoglobulin in secretions from respiratory and intestinal mucosa. IgE is a gamma globulin produced by cells lining the intestinal and respiratory tracts. It produces the antibodies associated with most hypersensitivity (allergic) responses. It is associated with asthma, hay fever, etc. IgM is a globulin formed in almost every immune response in the early part of the reaction. IgD is a rare protein present in normal serum in a tiny amount. These designations refer to the type of protein that is carrying the antibody in question. Both IgG and IgA subtypes of anti-gliadin antibody are produced, hence we refer to them as IgG gliadin or IgA gliadin. Collectively they are anti-gliadin antibodies.
Yet there is only one antibody in Graves Disease and one antibody in Hashi's.
When I asked about antibody testing, I was asking about Graves and Hashi's antibodies......sorry for the confusion.
But from what I have researched...it seems that antibodies in Celiac Disease are actually 'proteins' that only arise as an 'allergy' to certain wheats, grains etc whereas Graves and Hashi's antibodies are a completely different type of antibody.
Interesting.....
Anti-gliadin, anti-endomysium, and anti-transglutaminase antibodys are the main antibodys in Celiac and these are what are tested for in Celiac Disease.
There are several steps that take place to generate an immune response and it takes time both for the positive reaction when gluten is present and to clear the antibodies when gluten is eliminated. There has been a great deal of discussion about how much and how long a challenge should be and there is no consensus.
The minimum is 2 slices of bread per day for 6 weeks to get an accurate test. There are basically four tests that can be performed to aid in diagnosing celiac disease. Notice that I say they will aid in diagnosing celiac disease. Immunology is fairly accurate but it is far from being an exact science. All of the lab tests, regardless of the type or source, are presented as aids to diagnosis. They should not be used alone as a basis for diagnosis but rather are intended to be considered in conjunction with the physical examination of the patient as well as the reported symptoms, etc. by a trained physician. There has been a great deal of confusion about what the tests are and I hope to alleviate some of the misunderstandings. There are many terms that we hear. tTG, IgA, IgG, ELISA, etc.
We all have, within our bodies, a family of closely related although not identical proteins which are capable of acting as antibodies. These are collectively referred to as immunoglobulins. Five major types of immunoglobulins are normally present in the human adult. They are IgG, IgA, IgM, IgE and IgD. Each of these is a shorthand way of writing immunoglobulin gamma G (or A or M, etc.) and they each perform a different function in our systems. IgG is the principal immunoglobulin in human serum. It is important in providing immunity in a developing fetus because it will pass across the placental barrier. IgA is the principal immunoglobulin in secretions from respiratory and intestinal mucosa. IgE is a gamma globulin produced by cells lining the intestinal and respiratory tracts. It produces the antibodies associated with most hypersensitivity (allergic) responses. It is associated with asthma, hay fever, etc. IgM is a globulin formed in almost every immune response in the early part of the reaction. IgD is a rare protein present in normal serum in a tiny amount. These designations refer to the type of protein that is carrying the antibody in question. Both IgG and IgA subtypes of anti-gliadin antibody are produced, hence we refer to them as IgG gliadin or IgA gliadin. Collectively they are anti-gliadin antibodies.
Yet there is only one antibody in Graves Disease and one antibody in Hashi's.
When I asked about antibody testing, I was asking about Graves and Hashi's antibodies......sorry for the confusion.
But from what I have researched...it seems that antibodies in Celiac Disease are actually 'proteins' that only arise as an 'allergy' to certain wheats, grains etc whereas Graves and Hashi's antibodies are a completely different type of antibody.
Interesting.....
COMMUNITY LEADER
Deb said "Sometimes people confuse 'wellness and feeling good' as the antibodies being in remission...this is not always the case.
I have researched and found that Selenium is 'supposed' to lower antibody levels in Hashi's and I say 'supposed' as there are yet no 100% foolproof studies to prove that."
I have to totally agree that feeling good or well, is not the same as having the antibodies in remission. There are a lot of days during which I feel totally awesome, but over the past 2 yrs, the level of my antibodies and/or inflammation has not changed hardly at all and when they did change, they mostly went up.
I have Hashi's and I do take selenium; again, over a 2 yr period, I can honestly say that it has done nothing to lower my antibody count; however, it may help minimally with inflammation. A mircronutrient test showed that I was deficient in selenium; therefore, my thoughts are if you don't have an issue such as deficiency, it might not help a lot.
Same goes for gluten -- if you aren't allergic to it, what good will it do to eliminate it from your diet, since whole grains are generally considered to be an essential part of a healthy diet?
I have not given up gluten, as my doctor said "there's no need if you aren't allergic".
Gluten is not necessarily the source for your thyroid disease.........
I have researched and found that Selenium is 'supposed' to lower antibody levels in Hashi's and I say 'supposed' as there are yet no 100% foolproof studies to prove that."
I have to totally agree that feeling good or well, is not the same as having the antibodies in remission. There are a lot of days during which I feel totally awesome, but over the past 2 yrs, the level of my antibodies and/or inflammation has not changed hardly at all and when they did change, they mostly went up.
I have Hashi's and I do take selenium; again, over a 2 yr period, I can honestly say that it has done nothing to lower my antibody count; however, it may help minimally with inflammation. A mircronutrient test showed that I was deficient in selenium; therefore, my thoughts are if you don't have an issue such as deficiency, it might not help a lot.
Same goes for gluten -- if you aren't allergic to it, what good will it do to eliminate it from your diet, since whole grains are generally considered to be an essential part of a healthy diet?
I have not given up gluten, as my doctor said "there's no need if you aren't allergic".
Gluten is not necessarily the source for your thyroid disease.........
Right, you definitely should not go gluten free unless you have been diagnosed with celiac disease or a wheat allergy, because for everyone else, it is an essential part of their diet. I would never have gone gluten free otherwise; it is one of the hardest things I've ever dealt with! I miss so much good food! The only connection I have heard between celiac and thyroid disease is that they are both autoimmune diseases and if you have one, you are more likely to have the other. So I think they are correlated, but that one does not cause the other.
Two interesting comments..."Gluten is not necessarily the source for your thyroid disease......... " and "So I think they are correlated, but that one does not cause the other.." I agree with both.
Quoting from the study that was cited in the article "...3.4% of patients with autoimmune thyroiditis had celiac disease...". Of course, since it's pretty much accepted that once you have one autoimmune disease, you are more likely to get another, this is no big surprise. We would also expect to see a higher incidence of people with both Hashi's and lupus, or Hashi's and pernicious anemia, for example. However, this is a 2000 study, so it might be WHY we all accept this...it might have been cutting edge research in 2000.
One point that I find interesting is that of that 3.4% with both, which came first? Did some of that 3.4% actually have Hashi's BEFORE they developed celiac? This question wasn't answered since it was beyond the scope of the study.
So, 3.4% of people with Hashi's also have celiac, but we might assume that some of them had Hashi's first. So, I guess that following the logic that gluten might be the source of your thyroid disease, you also have to say that your thyroid disease might be the source of your celiac??? I don't think either causes the other...just trying to follow the logic here.
Another interesting fact is that ONLY 3.4% of the people with Hashi's also had celiac. Yes, the incidence was higher than in the general population. But, this definitely begs the question of what causes the other 96.6% (plus, if we adjust for those who had Hashi's FIRST) of Hashi's? Less than 3.4% of us with Hashi's even have the potential of its source being gluten...not the greatest of odds. In other words, avoiding gluten can only be expected to help less than three people in a hundred with Hashi's.
Quoting from the study that was cited in the article "...3.4% of patients with autoimmune thyroiditis had celiac disease...". Of course, since it's pretty much accepted that once you have one autoimmune disease, you are more likely to get another, this is no big surprise. We would also expect to see a higher incidence of people with both Hashi's and lupus, or Hashi's and pernicious anemia, for example. However, this is a 2000 study, so it might be WHY we all accept this...it might have been cutting edge research in 2000.
One point that I find interesting is that of that 3.4% with both, which came first? Did some of that 3.4% actually have Hashi's BEFORE they developed celiac? This question wasn't answered since it was beyond the scope of the study.
So, 3.4% of people with Hashi's also have celiac, but we might assume that some of them had Hashi's first. So, I guess that following the logic that gluten might be the source of your thyroid disease, you also have to say that your thyroid disease might be the source of your celiac??? I don't think either causes the other...just trying to follow the logic here.
Another interesting fact is that ONLY 3.4% of the people with Hashi's also had celiac. Yes, the incidence was higher than in the general population. But, this definitely begs the question of what causes the other 96.6% (plus, if we adjust for those who had Hashi's FIRST) of Hashi's? Less than 3.4% of us with Hashi's even have the potential of its source being gluten...not the greatest of odds. In other words, avoiding gluten can only be expected to help less than three people in a hundred with Hashi's.
Its my understanding that avoiding Gluten is only beneficial IF you have the Celiac antibody.
Celiac does NOT cause Hashi's and Hashi's does NOT cause Celiac.
They are two completely different autoimmune diseases.
And as research has shown, there is no benefit of avoiding Gluten if you dont have the Celiac antibodies.
This discussion has been interesting.
Sorry Guys...but I get tired of hearing..Dont eat this or dont eat that or may get this or you may get that etc.
I just eat what agrees with me and if it doesnt, I remove it from my diet.
The only 2 things I do avoid is Soy and Iodine (basically because I convert FT4 to FT3 TOO FAST...that is my reason for avoiding Iodine).
Celiac does NOT cause Hashi's and Hashi's does NOT cause Celiac.
They are two completely different autoimmune diseases.
And as research has shown, there is no benefit of avoiding Gluten if you dont have the Celiac antibodies.
This discussion has been interesting.
Sorry Guys...but I get tired of hearing..Dont eat this or dont eat that or may get this or you may get that etc.
I just eat what agrees with me and if it doesnt, I remove it from my diet.
The only 2 things I do avoid is Soy and Iodine (basically because I convert FT4 to FT3 TOO FAST...that is my reason for avoiding Iodine).
hi all
This is so great to have this discussion and info from everyone on here. I learn such a lot from all of you.
I posted earlier on this thread that my endo was testing me for celiac, nearly a year after I was first diagnosed hypothyroid.. I just got the results, except she hasn't actually sent me any numbers, I'll have to chase those up.
Her letter says: normal haematinic screen, normal bone, liver, kidney profiles, random cortisol normal at 231, Normal FBC and lipid profile, TSH was 1.13, FT4 17.7.
Despite me asking different doctors since October to get FT3 numbers and them being promised this time, she still hasn't given me any !!! Last time my GP requested FT3 from the lab and they just didn't do it!! I've no idea what's happened this time, maybe the same again, I'll ask obviously.
From the tests she's quoted I don't know which one is the celiac one. Do any of you have any idea?
She told me she was going to test: Celiac screen, TPO Ab, IgA, TSH, FT4, FT3, Vit D deficiency and cortisol. I'm not sure from what she's reported whether she's done that or not!
The good news though, I think, is that she's agreed to me having a 3 month trial of T3 medication alongside the thyroxine.
She's suggested 10mcg a day of liothyronine alongside my 125mcg thyroxine. If any of you have any comments on that I'd be grateful to hear what you think.
The more I learn about this whole thyroid thing the less inclined I am to just trust what my doctors tell me!
I've just realised this is going way off topic for this thread. should I start a new one?
This is so great to have this discussion and info from everyone on here. I learn such a lot from all of you.
I posted earlier on this thread that my endo was testing me for celiac, nearly a year after I was first diagnosed hypothyroid.. I just got the results, except she hasn't actually sent me any numbers, I'll have to chase those up.
Her letter says: normal haematinic screen, normal bone, liver, kidney profiles, random cortisol normal at 231, Normal FBC and lipid profile, TSH was 1.13, FT4 17.7.
Despite me asking different doctors since October to get FT3 numbers and them being promised this time, she still hasn't given me any !!! Last time my GP requested FT3 from the lab and they just didn't do it!! I've no idea what's happened this time, maybe the same again, I'll ask obviously.
From the tests she's quoted I don't know which one is the celiac one. Do any of you have any idea?
She told me she was going to test: Celiac screen, TPO Ab, IgA, TSH, FT4, FT3, Vit D deficiency and cortisol. I'm not sure from what she's reported whether she's done that or not!
The good news though, I think, is that she's agreed to me having a 3 month trial of T3 medication alongside the thyroxine.
She's suggested 10mcg a day of liothyronine alongside my 125mcg thyroxine. If any of you have any comments on that I'd be grateful to hear what you think.
The more I learn about this whole thyroid thing the less inclined I am to just trust what my doctors tell me!
I've just realised this is going way off topic for this thread. should I start a new one?
COMMUNITY LEADER
Yes, this HAS been an interesting discussion and it would appear that the general consensus is that eliminating gluten from the diet is beneficial ONLY to those who test positive for celiac -- makes sense to me!!
I agree that no research has proven that gluten causes Hashi's or is even connected. I do agree with the idea that if one has an autoimmune disease, it's quite likely they will get another; I, personally, have both Hashi's and pernicious anemia, my daughter has lupus and my son and his son both have type I diabetes. I'd say there's a good chance that any (or all) of them will eventually have another autoimmune; likewise, I may get another!!!
I'm with you, Deb -- get tired of hearing that I need to stop eating different things. If I eat something and it makes me ill or doesn't agree, I either stop eating it, or try smaller portions, since sometimes I get a bit "piggy" and over indulge!! LOL
I also avoid soy and don't use iodine. I do try not to eat raw broccoli, cabbage, etc too close to when I've taken my thyroid med, since cruciferous veggies prevent proper absorption of thyroid med; otherwise, I eat what I like.
Yes, yallolorry -- please start another thread with your issue. I have a lot to say about a doctor giving T3 med without testing for FT3 - but I'd rather not mix it in with this topic; both are too important and not related, so best not to be combined. Thanks.
I agree that no research has proven that gluten causes Hashi's or is even connected. I do agree with the idea that if one has an autoimmune disease, it's quite likely they will get another; I, personally, have both Hashi's and pernicious anemia, my daughter has lupus and my son and his son both have type I diabetes. I'd say there's a good chance that any (or all) of them will eventually have another autoimmune; likewise, I may get another!!!
I'm with you, Deb -- get tired of hearing that I need to stop eating different things. If I eat something and it makes me ill or doesn't agree, I either stop eating it, or try smaller portions, since sometimes I get a bit "piggy" and over indulge!! LOL
I also avoid soy and don't use iodine. I do try not to eat raw broccoli, cabbage, etc too close to when I've taken my thyroid med, since cruciferous veggies prevent proper absorption of thyroid med; otherwise, I eat what I like.
Yes, yallolorry -- please start another thread with your issue. I have a lot to say about a doctor giving T3 med without testing for FT3 - but I'd rather not mix it in with this topic; both are too important and not related, so best not to be combined. Thanks.
The normal haematinic screen is for anaemia...IGA is antibody screening for Celiac (so yes she has done that).
Maybe start another post...putting all yr lab results down.
Maybe start another post...putting all yr lab results down.
I have suffered from IBS (tho never clinically confirmed) for 10 plus years. I know that eating too much wheat in one day or over a few days really buggers me up. It has gotten to the point in the past where it restricts what i do or where i go. I am very careful these days (after living with it for so long) but still get caught out at times.
Could this be related to my Hashi's? After reading this I'm beginning to wonder.....is it worth mentioning when I see the endo?
Thanks
Could this be related to my Hashi's? After reading this I'm beginning to wonder.....is it worth mentioning when I see the endo?
Thanks
If you've noticed a definite connection between wheat and digestive symptoms, definitely mention this to your doctor. If you have autoimmune thyroid disease (Hashi's or Grave's), you are more likely than the general population to develop another autoimmune disease, like celiac. I think it would be worthwhile to have celiac antibody testing. Regardless of if you test positive or not, if wheat makes you feel ill, then you should probably avoid it. However, remember that before celiac antibody testing, you must not be gluten free. If you are, the test can return a false negative.
COMMUNITY LEADER
The consensus is that gluten does not cause Hashi's, nor does Hashi's cause celiac; however, as was also stated -- if you have one autoimmune disease, the likelihood of having/getting another is quite high. You have Hashi's, you could also have celiac.
When looking at it from that stand point, yes, it would be a good idea to talk to your doctor and see if you can get tested for celiac, which is an autoimmune disease characterized by allergy to gluten.
I'm not real familiar with IBS but I think it's actually more closely related to Crohn's Disease than to celiac... There are specific tests for both.
If all the tests prove negative, then it would be as Deb and I said in our posts: if something doesn't agree with us, we don't eat it. There are some things that tend to constipate me - I either avoid them or eat less of them.
If your doctor will test you for these things, it never hurts to rule them out, in order to know exactly what you are dealing with.
When looking at it from that stand point, yes, it would be a good idea to talk to your doctor and see if you can get tested for celiac, which is an autoimmune disease characterized by allergy to gluten.
I'm not real familiar with IBS but I think it's actually more closely related to Crohn's Disease than to celiac... There are specific tests for both.
If all the tests prove negative, then it would be as Deb and I said in our posts: if something doesn't agree with us, we don't eat it. There are some things that tend to constipate me - I either avoid them or eat less of them.
If your doctor will test you for these things, it never hurts to rule them out, in order to know exactly what you are dealing with.
This is such an interesting discussion that I couldn't keep from joining in. I thought you might be interested in this little pearl that I ran across.
"Meanwhile, a study published at FASEBJ (Journal of the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology) indicates that addressing and avoiding vitamin D deficiency may suppress the immune response which leads to intestinal inflammation disorders as well as celiac disease (described in the study linked earlier in my post).
In short, this could mean that celiac disease may be induced by early exposure to a combination of gluten and strains of intestinal flora while also suffering from insufficient vitamin D in your diet.
To further corroborate this idea, we have two additional recent studies which indicate that 1) vitamin D assists in preserving the intestinal mucosal barrier and 2) that individuals born in the summer (and who thus experience their early months during the winter with less vitamin D providing sunlight) are more likely to develop celiac disease.
The first study can be found at the American Journal of Physiology here: Vitamin D Helps Maintain Intestinal Mucosal Barrier. The second study, a Swedish study, can be read at the Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health here (requires free registration to access): Children Born In The Summer Have Increased Risk of Celiac Disease."
the above is a direct quote form this link.
http://gluten-intolerance-symptoms.com/does-early-vitamin-d-deficiency-and-intestinal-flora-cause-celiac-disease/
Since we are all aware of the huge amount of data that shows that patients with hypothyroidism show low Vitamin D levels as well, could this then trigger Celiac disease?
"Meanwhile, a study published at FASEBJ (Journal of the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology) indicates that addressing and avoiding vitamin D deficiency may suppress the immune response which leads to intestinal inflammation disorders as well as celiac disease (described in the study linked earlier in my post).
In short, this could mean that celiac disease may be induced by early exposure to a combination of gluten and strains of intestinal flora while also suffering from insufficient vitamin D in your diet.
To further corroborate this idea, we have two additional recent studies which indicate that 1) vitamin D assists in preserving the intestinal mucosal barrier and 2) that individuals born in the summer (and who thus experience their early months during the winter with less vitamin D providing sunlight) are more likely to develop celiac disease.
The first study can be found at the American Journal of Physiology here: Vitamin D Helps Maintain Intestinal Mucosal Barrier. The second study, a Swedish study, can be read at the Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health here (requires free registration to access): Children Born In The Summer Have Increased Risk of Celiac Disease."
the above is a direct quote form this link.
http://gluten-intolerance-symptoms.com/does-early-vitamin-d-deficiency-and-intestinal-flora-cause-celiac-disease/
Since we are all aware of the huge amount of data that shows that patients with hypothyroidism show low Vitamin D levels as well, could this then trigger Celiac disease?
Interesting point gimmel.
Although I am in the garden every weekend and have been for years (1 1/2 acres) and yet I still had a Vit. D deficiency.
So I have been taking Vit. D since then with Calcium as Vit. D combined with Calcium helps Thyroxin absorb properly.
Maybe the RAI depleted my Vit. D???
I stopped my Calcium/D3 for 3 months and felt like cr@p so went back on them.
My TSH is back up to over 5.0 at my 2 year anniversary but I put that down to major stress the last 6 months and now because of working fulltime...my body needs more thyroxin as FT3 and FT4 had dropped a bit.
I noticed last year that my TSH went up when I went to work but that was when I was 'tweaking' my meds....so there seems to be 'another pattern' there that I must remember.
I know its not the Pit. Gland as the FT3/FT4 hasnt sky rocketed like it did in March this year when tumour was found.
Another few weeks on 2nd increase and I should have levels normal again.
I feel tired but not achy so that good.
Although I am in the garden every weekend and have been for years (1 1/2 acres) and yet I still had a Vit. D deficiency.
So I have been taking Vit. D since then with Calcium as Vit. D combined with Calcium helps Thyroxin absorb properly.
Maybe the RAI depleted my Vit. D???
I stopped my Calcium/D3 for 3 months and felt like cr@p so went back on them.
My TSH is back up to over 5.0 at my 2 year anniversary but I put that down to major stress the last 6 months and now because of working fulltime...my body needs more thyroxin as FT3 and FT4 had dropped a bit.
I noticed last year that my TSH went up when I went to work but that was when I was 'tweaking' my meds....so there seems to be 'another pattern' there that I must remember.
I know its not the Pit. Gland as the FT3/FT4 hasnt sky rocketed like it did in March this year when tumour was found.
Another few weeks on 2nd increase and I should have levels normal again.
I feel tired but not achy so that good.
Wow! A lot of discussion here after my one little post. I'll try to get to most of it. First off, Gimel, those articles are fascinating. Thanks for sharing. One thing I've learned from all of this is that my D levels can easily drop, and I feel low when they do. From speaking to other Hashi friends, low D seems to be the trend.
I take D pills, but nothing works as well as a day in the sun. So am I exchanging skin cancer for a healthy stomach? LOL! Thanks so much for those articles.
:) Tamra
I take D pills, but nothing works as well as a day in the sun. So am I exchanging skin cancer for a healthy stomach? LOL! Thanks so much for those articles.
:) Tamra
I have not had a positive confirmation of Celiac. I had the IGA test and it was negative. No biopsy. However, I've had what my mom referred to as a 'sensitive stomach' for my entire life. At times, from youth to adulthood, my stomach was bloated and I looked pregnant.
I gave up gluten this February. At that time I was on 150 Synthroid and 10 Cytomel. Now, about once a month I am going hyper and forced to drop my meds. At first I thought I was crazy, but I also have FT4 and FT3 labwork to prove that I was hyper. I am now taking 112 Synthroid and 5 Cytomel. We will see in the next few months if I need to go down more.
My neck no longer swells. The swelling stopped about a month or two after quitting gluten. I no longer get the debilitating attacks that leave me on the couch for days at a time, popping Tylenol III pills.
No, I have not had a recent antibody test, but those are not always reliable, as antibodies can fluctuate. I've only had one test, last August - 221 TPO. However, I have learned that antibody numbers are not always indicative of how well you feel. I have many Hashi friends whose antibodies range from the hundreds to the thousands, and we have all felt just as lousy.
The proof is in the pudding. Antibody attacks stopped. Needing less hormone. FT4/FT3 numbers kept going up. I need no other proof that giving up gluten has worked for me.
Please note, also, that I said in my very first post, "I know the GF diet isn't for everyone" yet some members of this forum seem to think that I'm telling them what not to eat. If you don't want to try the GF diet, then don't. I think it would be selfish of me to have achieved an improved health and NOT share my story with other thyroid patients.
:) Tamra
I gave up gluten this February. At that time I was on 150 Synthroid and 10 Cytomel. Now, about once a month I am going hyper and forced to drop my meds. At first I thought I was crazy, but I also have FT4 and FT3 labwork to prove that I was hyper. I am now taking 112 Synthroid and 5 Cytomel. We will see in the next few months if I need to go down more.
My neck no longer swells. The swelling stopped about a month or two after quitting gluten. I no longer get the debilitating attacks that leave me on the couch for days at a time, popping Tylenol III pills.
No, I have not had a recent antibody test, but those are not always reliable, as antibodies can fluctuate. I've only had one test, last August - 221 TPO. However, I have learned that antibody numbers are not always indicative of how well you feel. I have many Hashi friends whose antibodies range from the hundreds to the thousands, and we have all felt just as lousy.
The proof is in the pudding. Antibody attacks stopped. Needing less hormone. FT4/FT3 numbers kept going up. I need no other proof that giving up gluten has worked for me.
Please note, also, that I said in my very first post, "I know the GF diet isn't for everyone" yet some members of this forum seem to think that I'm telling them what not to eat. If you don't want to try the GF diet, then don't. I think it would be selfish of me to have achieved an improved health and NOT share my story with other thyroid patients.
:) Tamra
Here is another article that I think you will also find interesting
http://www.celiac.com/articles/1141/1/Vitamin-D-Deficiency-May-be-Affecting-Celiacs-Immune-Systems-by-Laura-Wesson/Page1.html
Yes, your one little post certainly has prompted a lot of discussion. I think that is great. Clearly there is a lot different opinions about a gluten free diet and how it relates to autoimmune system diseases such as the one that is near and dear to many forum members - Hashi's. I totally agree with an old definition of a scientist as one who proceeds to discover the facts, rather than try to prove a preconceived opinion. I think that is what we are all after here, is to discover facts that will benefit members.
You read a book about a supposed link between Celiac Disease/gluten intolerance and autoimmune system disorders. That book prompted you to voluntarily become a human guinea pig for all our possible benefit. LOL I admire that spirit. I've done a little experimenting myself, though not as demanding as trying to cut off my gluten intake.
It's good for all of us to stop once in a while and question some of the things we believe and things we do. From that type of reasoning I decided to read the book you previously promoted quite vigorously. I have to admit that I was skeptical and remain so. In the book I found errors that bothered me. I found an awful lot of hedging from the author about what he was promoting so heavily in the book. I found lots of open questions that would have to be addressed and answered satisfactorily before I could ever subscribe to the author's beliefs. As I did a lot of web surfing about some of the concepts, I ran across articles such as the above several, which made me stop and think, which came first the chicken or the egg? In other words, which are the potential causes and which are the potential effects among Vitamin D, gluten, and Hashi's? I think the jury is still out on all of this and we all need to continue to read, ask lots of questions and learn all we can about our common objective, which is hypothyroidism, of course.
My main concern is that in the interim we need to be vigilant in what we portray on the forum. Since there are always newcomers and lurkers who can easily misunderstand, I think it is very important that in every post we make it clear when something has not yet reached the level of proven science, or at least is somewhat acknowledged among the medical community, That is especially true when it comes to an experienced and active member such as yourself, with your credibility on the Forum.
I really hope that members help keep this thread going. I think we all learn from such an open discussion, and the Forum is the biggest potential beneficiary.
http://www.celiac.com/articles/1141/1/Vitamin-D-Deficiency-May-be-Affecting-Celiacs-Immune-Systems-by-Laura-Wesson/Page1.html
Yes, your one little post certainly has prompted a lot of discussion. I think that is great. Clearly there is a lot different opinions about a gluten free diet and how it relates to autoimmune system diseases such as the one that is near and dear to many forum members - Hashi's. I totally agree with an old definition of a scientist as one who proceeds to discover the facts, rather than try to prove a preconceived opinion. I think that is what we are all after here, is to discover facts that will benefit members.
You read a book about a supposed link between Celiac Disease/gluten intolerance and autoimmune system disorders. That book prompted you to voluntarily become a human guinea pig for all our possible benefit. LOL I admire that spirit. I've done a little experimenting myself, though not as demanding as trying to cut off my gluten intake.
It's good for all of us to stop once in a while and question some of the things we believe and things we do. From that type of reasoning I decided to read the book you previously promoted quite vigorously. I have to admit that I was skeptical and remain so. In the book I found errors that bothered me. I found an awful lot of hedging from the author about what he was promoting so heavily in the book. I found lots of open questions that would have to be addressed and answered satisfactorily before I could ever subscribe to the author's beliefs. As I did a lot of web surfing about some of the concepts, I ran across articles such as the above several, which made me stop and think, which came first the chicken or the egg? In other words, which are the potential causes and which are the potential effects among Vitamin D, gluten, and Hashi's? I think the jury is still out on all of this and we all need to continue to read, ask lots of questions and learn all we can about our common objective, which is hypothyroidism, of course.
My main concern is that in the interim we need to be vigilant in what we portray on the forum. Since there are always newcomers and lurkers who can easily misunderstand, I think it is very important that in every post we make it clear when something has not yet reached the level of proven science, or at least is somewhat acknowledged among the medical community, That is especially true when it comes to an experienced and active member such as yourself, with your credibility on the Forum.
I really hope that members help keep this thread going. I think we all learn from such an open discussion, and the Forum is the biggest potential beneficiary.
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