Aa
Robotic Doctors. Frustrated.
TSH 3.28 mIu/l (0.35-5.5)
Free Thyroxine 19.4 pmol/l (10.3-19.7)
They won't test my FT3. It's within the "normal" range, so according to them the HMO won't approve. There's nothing wrong with my thyroid as long as it's within the range. Argh!
These are my symptoms:
Fatigue/Lethargy, Brain Fog, Lack of concentration, Memory loss, Cognitive deficiency, Mild Constipation, Chapped lips, Cold feet, Non-refreshing sleep, Less tired at night, Depression, Foamy Urine, Tired after meals, Hair Breakage/Loss, Unexplained Allergy. I'm 25, male, 69kg @ 1.82cm.
For years that I complain about being tired. I could somehow get through, and didn't lack energy all the time. Ever since I changed my diet drastically to Paleo 2.5 months ago; removed all sugars, refined food, gluten etc', things got worse, ironically. I'm eating GREAT nowadays. Like, really. I'd bet all the sugar kept me going then. Tried many things in my capacity to eliminate and find the cause, but nothing in my diet seems like the trigger. What also doesn't change is the high levels within the range of TSH I've been getting in all my blood tests during the past 4 years. During this period of time it has always been around the 2.5, one time @ 4.14, now at 3.28. That's the first time I got tested for FT4.
These results as I've read may indicate on thyroid hormone resistance, being that FT4 is elevated and TSH is normal-high instead of being low. Correct me if I'm wrong. Either way, the FT3 is missing in there to get the fuller picture.
Kill me, I'm sure there's something wrong with my thyroid. What strengthen my guess is that my mom has thyroid issues aswell, and seems like my aunt and grandma has them, too. Both my mom and her sister complain ALL THE TIME about being tired, and my mom was diagnosed before as hyper, even had a surgery in that area.
I'm not the kind of person to storm in and insist on getting something from the "pros" with their fancy title. So, before I'm going out of character to fight for my health, I'd appreciate if anyone could tell me what are the odds based on these results that my thyroid is indeed the weak chain.
Thanks in advance.
Free Thyroxine 19.4 pmol/l (10.3-19.7)
They won't test my FT3. It's within the "normal" range, so according to them the HMO won't approve. There's nothing wrong with my thyroid as long as it's within the range. Argh!
These are my symptoms:
Fatigue/Lethargy, Brain Fog, Lack of concentration, Memory loss, Cognitive deficiency, Mild Constipation, Chapped lips, Cold feet, Non-refreshing sleep, Less tired at night, Depression, Foamy Urine, Tired after meals, Hair Breakage/Loss, Unexplained Allergy. I'm 25, male, 69kg @ 1.82cm.
For years that I complain about being tired. I could somehow get through, and didn't lack energy all the time. Ever since I changed my diet drastically to Paleo 2.5 months ago; removed all sugars, refined food, gluten etc', things got worse, ironically. I'm eating GREAT nowadays. Like, really. I'd bet all the sugar kept me going then. Tried many things in my capacity to eliminate and find the cause, but nothing in my diet seems like the trigger. What also doesn't change is the high levels within the range of TSH I've been getting in all my blood tests during the past 4 years. During this period of time it has always been around the 2.5, one time @ 4.14, now at 3.28. That's the first time I got tested for FT4.
These results as I've read may indicate on thyroid hormone resistance, being that FT4 is elevated and TSH is normal-high instead of being low. Correct me if I'm wrong. Either way, the FT3 is missing in there to get the fuller picture.
Kill me, I'm sure there's something wrong with my thyroid. What strengthen my guess is that my mom has thyroid issues aswell, and seems like my aunt and grandma has them, too. Both my mom and her sister complain ALL THE TIME about being tired, and my mom was diagnosed before as hyper, even had a surgery in that area.
I'm not the kind of person to storm in and insist on getting something from the "pros" with their fancy title. So, before I'm going out of character to fight for my health, I'd appreciate if anyone could tell me what are the odds based on these results that my thyroid is indeed the weak chain.
Thanks in advance.
Yes, your D level is dismal. Many people find it has to be close to top of range before they feel well. Previously 15...ouch!
If we don't have a deficiency, 20 minutes in the sun with just face and forearms exposed will fulfill our vitamin D requirements. I don't know how much you need to correct a deficiency, but 30 minutes of full body tanning might be a little much??? Interesting...did you know that it's cholesterol the sun converts to vitamin D?
Good luck...keep me posted.
If we don't have a deficiency, 20 minutes in the sun with just face and forearms exposed will fulfill our vitamin D requirements. I don't know how much you need to correct a deficiency, but 30 minutes of full body tanning might be a little much??? Interesting...did you know that it's cholesterol the sun converts to vitamin D?
Good luck...keep me posted.
Vitamin D levels came back -- 29 ng/ml (20-100): Hypovitaminosis D.
While it could be a consequence of a metabolic dysfunction, due to my severe lack in sun exposure for so many years I'm inclined to say it's a legitimate culprit for all this mess. Back at 2012 & 2010 levels were 34 & 15, respectively.
My hypothesis is that Vitamin D was the main cause for hypo symptoms pre-Paleo, along with malnutrition. Going Paleo, the period of being very low on carbs screwed up with my system even further, especially the liver & the thyroid. The body went through tremendous stress along with already existing load, eventually "crashing".
I'll experiment with 30min of full-body tanning every day along with 3x days of exercising a week.
While it could be a consequence of a metabolic dysfunction, due to my severe lack in sun exposure for so many years I'm inclined to say it's a legitimate culprit for all this mess. Back at 2012 & 2010 levels were 34 & 15, respectively.
My hypothesis is that Vitamin D was the main cause for hypo symptoms pre-Paleo, along with malnutrition. Going Paleo, the period of being very low on carbs screwed up with my system even further, especially the liver & the thyroid. The body went through tremendous stress along with already existing load, eventually "crashing".
I'll experiment with 30min of full-body tanning every day along with 3x days of exercising a week.
I'm not familiar enough with the subtleties of interpreting iron/ferritin tests to know what you can conclude or even if there is a problem beyond your obviously low serum iron level.
You might try starting a new thread with a title indicating you want help with interpreting iron/ferritin tests. I checked the list of other MH forums to see if I could spot one for you to post in, but nothing seemed appropriate. Many of our members have experience with iron and ferritin and might be able to help you in a new thread.
You might try starting a new thread with a title indicating you want help with interpreting iron/ferritin tests. I checked the list of other MH forums to see if I could spot one for you to post in, but nothing seemed appropriate. Many of our members have experience with iron and ferritin and might be able to help you in a new thread.
Iron panel results came back:
Fe-Iron 86 micg/dl (70-180)
Ferritin 139 ng/ml (20-250)
Transferrin 248 mg/dl (160-360)
Transferrin Saturation 25%
Finally normal Ferritin levels. Iron won't move from the lower end. What's the reason for Iron staying at the same level while Ferritin going up?
What could I conclude from these results?
Fe-Iron 86 micg/dl (70-180)
Ferritin 139 ng/ml (20-250)
Transferrin 248 mg/dl (160-360)
Transferrin Saturation 25%
Finally normal Ferritin levels. Iron won't move from the lower end. What's the reason for Iron staying at the same level while Ferritin going up?
What could I conclude from these results?
Sorry, i found a serum iron test result you posted above, but I couldn't find a ferritin. I didn't know you had had it tested previously. Still, if it's been a while, things could have changed. People are not born with hemo, but develop it somewhere along the line. I could also be barking up the wrong tree enirely, but I just thought it might explain several mysteries. A ferritin test will lay it to rest, if nothing else.
"So... lets assume for one second here that I do have high Ferritin levels hence Iron overload. That means on the one hand that I need to up my carbs since it's necessary for the thyroid hormones conversion, but on the other hand it means I should lower my carbs since I can't tolerate it. What gives?"
Don't forget that you can lower your ferritin levels, your pancreas, etc. can heal, and you then can increase your carb tolerance.
The least you can say is that giving up the cereal certainly CHANGED your iron intake seriously.
Doctors are incredibly lazy at ordering CHEAP tesdting, from what I can see. Sometimes I think it's easier to go in and demand an MRI than to get a simple FT3 test, which I pay $10 for after my insurance "discount". There's, unfortunately, not a lot of thinking going on in the medical profession (or anywhere else for that matter) any more.
Good luck with your doctor's appointment...
"So... lets assume for one second here that I do have high Ferritin levels hence Iron overload. That means on the one hand that I need to up my carbs since it's necessary for the thyroid hormones conversion, but on the other hand it means I should lower my carbs since I can't tolerate it. What gives?"
Don't forget that you can lower your ferritin levels, your pancreas, etc. can heal, and you then can increase your carb tolerance.
The least you can say is that giving up the cereal certainly CHANGED your iron intake seriously.
Doctors are incredibly lazy at ordering CHEAP tesdting, from what I can see. Sometimes I think it's easier to go in and demand an MRI than to get a simple FT3 test, which I pay $10 for after my insurance "discount". There's, unfortunately, not a lot of thinking going on in the medical profession (or anywhere else for that matter) any more.
Good luck with your doctor's appointment...
Okay, so here's an interesting finding. Remember the Quaker cereal I was talking about? It appears that this thing is overloaded with Iron. One single cup (~56g) is over 200% RDA! I think I ate more than that each morning. As mentioned, that was my breakfast every single day for years, about the time I stopped exercising onward. That's 200%+ without the rest of the food consumed through the day. I could even double the intake in certain days. Also, it seems like the way I ate before wasn't THAT bad minerals & B vitamins-wise. Whether I actually absorbed anything properly that's another story, but I'm surprised to see the data.
Why this is interesting? Well, despite that, both my Iron & Ferritin levels were at the lower bottom through all my tests, in both diets. There's something definitely going on with my Iron function, which could and would in turn explain everything else in my symptoms. I don't understand why doctors are so "lazy" in requesting proper testing. Why test Iron without Ferritin, for instance?
Why this is interesting? Well, despite that, both my Iron & Ferritin levels were at the lower bottom through all my tests, in both diets. There's something definitely going on with my Iron function, which could and would in turn explain everything else in my symptoms. I don't understand why doctors are so "lazy" in requesting proper testing. Why test Iron without Ferritin, for instance?
Any TSH above 2.0 indicates a problem - studies show a correlation with heart problems with TSH above this level. I'm too lazy to find the link for you- but it's out there. Amazingly most endos don't know about this but some do.
But mainly I encourage you to urgently be evaluated for nephrotic syndrome - foamy urine usually indicates high amounts of protein loss in the urine which the main cause is usually nephrotic syndrome which is a kidney disease. This protein loss can lead to extreme feelings of weakness. Still I could be wrong, I'm just another another person on the internet. Just don't give up and keep getting second opinions till you get some relief - good luck!
But mainly I encourage you to urgently be evaluated for nephrotic syndrome - foamy urine usually indicates high amounts of protein loss in the urine which the main cause is usually nephrotic syndrome which is a kidney disease. This protein loss can lead to extreme feelings of weakness. Still I could be wrong, I'm just another another person on the internet. Just don't give up and keep getting second opinions till you get some relief - good luck!
Exercise, sun exposure, and significant increase in carbs & calories should have ease the symptoms, but I actually feel worse. Much worse, for crying out loud. I'm having trouble getting up in the morning due to unrefreshing sleep, but today it was much severe than usual. Opening my eyes was immensely hard. Took me an hour to leave bed.
"Chris Kresser: Yeah, iron is a pro-oxidant, so it does cause oxidative damage and inflammation, and it damages tissue and cells and organs and namely the pancreas and the pancreatic beta cells. So when you have too much iron, the iron damages the beta cells of the pancreas, it compromises insulin secretion, which would in turn decrease your carbohydrate tolerance."
So... lets assume for one second here that I do have high Ferritin levels hence Iron overload. That means on the one hand that I need to up my carbs since it's necessary for the thyroid hormones conversion, but on the other hand it means I should lower my carbs since I can't tolerate it. What gives? ;p
If only I wasn't so brain-foggy. I find it so hard to analyse this case.
"Chris Kresser: Yeah, iron is a pro-oxidant, so it does cause oxidative damage and inflammation, and it damages tissue and cells and organs and namely the pancreas and the pancreatic beta cells. So when you have too much iron, the iron damages the beta cells of the pancreas, it compromises insulin secretion, which would in turn decrease your carbohydrate tolerance."
So... lets assume for one second here that I do have high Ferritin levels hence Iron overload. That means on the one hand that I need to up my carbs since it's necessary for the thyroid hormones conversion, but on the other hand it means I should lower my carbs since I can't tolerate it. What gives? ;p
If only I wasn't so brain-foggy. I find it so hard to analyse this case.
Unless... the "old" and "new" hypo have different causes, and the recent one is related to high Ferritin? xd
Scheduled an appointment to the doc tomorrow, I'll ask for an Iron panel.
Scheduled an appointment to the doc tomorrow, I'll ask for an Iron panel.
But as mentioned about Ferritin, it has been consistently low in all the blood tests I took. Also most of the hemo symptoms don't quite fit. While they didn't check my ferritin recently, I did have hypo symptoms on a low ferritin before going Paleo.
Interesting...I suppose we do have habits similar in a lot of ways to bears. The Omnivore's Dilemma as Michael Pollen so aptly tagged it.
I had another thought last night and pursued it a bit this morning, just to make sure I've got my ducks somewhat in a row. Have you ever taken a look at hemochromatosis? In case you're not familiar, hemo is the excess STORAGE of iron (copper can also be involved). Stored iron is measured as ferritin. With hemo, serum iron levels are often normal, but ferritin levels are high. In addition, elevated ALT is typical of hemo (the excess iron damages the liver).
This might explain a few things: 1) where all that iron you consume is going since it's not showing up in serum levels; 2) why your ALT is elevated and 3) why you're hypo, which is complication of hemo.
Here a a couple of links I found interesting:
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/hemo/diagnosis.html
http://gut.bmj.com/content/46/5/707.long
"As mentioned, the clear change occurred shortly after eliminating all carbs & sugar from breakfast (papaya has lot of sugar in it)." It also occurred not long after a fairly iron laden breakfast.
You might also find this recent MH thread interesting:
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Thyroid-Disorders/reverse-t-3-does-anybody-have-it/show/1951108#post_9170410
RadRevD is the guy with hemo, and he only comes in quite a ways down the thread. There's a lot going on there, but you can probably pick through it and winnow out the discussion with RadRevD.
I had another thought last night and pursued it a bit this morning, just to make sure I've got my ducks somewhat in a row. Have you ever taken a look at hemochromatosis? In case you're not familiar, hemo is the excess STORAGE of iron (copper can also be involved). Stored iron is measured as ferritin. With hemo, serum iron levels are often normal, but ferritin levels are high. In addition, elevated ALT is typical of hemo (the excess iron damages the liver).
This might explain a few things: 1) where all that iron you consume is going since it's not showing up in serum levels; 2) why your ALT is elevated and 3) why you're hypo, which is complication of hemo.
Here a a couple of links I found interesting:
http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/hemo/diagnosis.html
http://gut.bmj.com/content/46/5/707.long
"As mentioned, the clear change occurred shortly after eliminating all carbs & sugar from breakfast (papaya has lot of sugar in it)." It also occurred not long after a fairly iron laden breakfast.
You might also find this recent MH thread interesting:
http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Thyroid-Disorders/reverse-t-3-does-anybody-have-it/show/1951108#post_9170410
RadRevD is the guy with hemo, and he only comes in quite a ways down the thread. There's a lot going on there, but you can probably pick through it and winnow out the discussion with RadRevD.
Great insights. Yes, I'm way, way too thin for my own good. When I began gym exercising 10 years ago, I was 148 lbs. I was maybe an inch or two less than my current height. 3 years later I was consistently around 176 lbs, and all-time high was 5 years ago -- 190 lbs. I was in good shape, ate excellent compared to modern diet, and seen the sun every day. However, I did not eat any veggies or fruits back then aswell, fwiw.
All this routine was shut down in a day. No exercise and much more sitting, much less food and less of good quality, minimum sun exposure. Slowly but surely, I lost those 42 pounds without even trying.
I read about the hibernation affect before, and even managed to find the article.
http://drcate.com/going-low-carb-too-fast-may-trigger-thyroid-troubles-and-hormone-imbalance/
Jump to the bear analogy ^^
So, yeah, that snowball effect you mentioned seems plausible and echoes my premise that symptoms were present but more bearable before since something in my diet kept me going, and going Paleo eliminated or shocked the system in that area, producing more damage. As mentioned, the clear change occurred shortly after eliminating all carbs & sugar from breakfast (papaya has lot of sugar in it).
I do eat more veggies and fruits, but I'm going to further increase the intake. It seems like I need to really shake my system up, so I'm going to consume much more carbs, and as mentioned get back to exercising, and get more sun exposure. Assuming there's no problem with the thyroid gland itself, and there's no autoimmune problem but I face a metabolic issue purely, that's the high road.
I'll keep updating.
Thank you so much again for your time and effort.
All this routine was shut down in a day. No exercise and much more sitting, much less food and less of good quality, minimum sun exposure. Slowly but surely, I lost those 42 pounds without even trying.
I read about the hibernation affect before, and even managed to find the article.
http://drcate.com/going-low-carb-too-fast-may-trigger-thyroid-troubles-and-hormone-imbalance/
Jump to the bear analogy ^^
So, yeah, that snowball effect you mentioned seems plausible and echoes my premise that symptoms were present but more bearable before since something in my diet kept me going, and going Paleo eliminated or shocked the system in that area, producing more damage. As mentioned, the clear change occurred shortly after eliminating all carbs & sugar from breakfast (papaya has lot of sugar in it).
I do eat more veggies and fruits, but I'm going to further increase the intake. It seems like I need to really shake my system up, so I'm going to consume much more carbs, and as mentioned get back to exercising, and get more sun exposure. Assuming there's no problem with the thyroid gland itself, and there's no autoimmune problem but I face a metabolic issue purely, that's the high road.
I'll keep updating.
Thank you so much again for your time and effort.
I'm still wondering if the fact that you're so thin has anything to do with all this. If I do the math correctly, you are almost 6'1" and 151 lbs? When I first met my husband (he was 21), he was 6'1" (still is) and 145 lbs (not any more!). With the change out of your pocket, you're probably in a dead heat with him for 145 lbs. That's very thin.
So, before paleo, you already had these symtoms. I couldn't find the comment I thought you made. Did you say you rarely ate veggies back then?
RT3 dominance is a natural reaction to starvation/malnutrition/famine. It puts your body in kind of "hibernation" (it's more torpor, really) mode. It conserves energy. I agree with the comment in the link that with your high FT4 and low FT3, you almost have to have a lot of RT3. If we assume your RT3 has been high since before paleo, we can blame your symptoms on RT3. Why did they get worse on paleo? Perhaps one of those things you gave up was what you were running on and you've been plunged into even deeper starvation mode on this diet? At your height and weight, it's not like you have much fat stored away for those peak demand periods. Just brainstorming...
Another thought on RT3...If you've done much reading on it, you know that there isn't a lot of agreement either on the mechanism by which it works or the treatment for it. One theory is that it docks at T3 receptors in cells and blocks T3 from getting in. This is fine when it's adaptive to an environmental stimulus, but sometime RT3 dominance outlives the stimulus that started it in the first place. One theory goes that the RT3 then has to be "dislodged" or "cleared". Once the RT3 is in the cells, it can have a snowball effect...you become hypo at the cellular level, your pituitary tells your thyroid to produce more T4, it does, which stimulates more conversion, which increases RT3 even more. Perhaps the worsening of symptoms was coincidental to the diet and would have happened anyway due to this snowballing effect?
Back to another thought...iron and ferritin...yours is low. This also contributes to RT3 dominance. I know you consume a lot of iron...don't know what you do about it in this case. Injectible?
Are you eating more fruits and veggies now?
So, before paleo, you already had these symtoms. I couldn't find the comment I thought you made. Did you say you rarely ate veggies back then?
RT3 dominance is a natural reaction to starvation/malnutrition/famine. It puts your body in kind of "hibernation" (it's more torpor, really) mode. It conserves energy. I agree with the comment in the link that with your high FT4 and low FT3, you almost have to have a lot of RT3. If we assume your RT3 has been high since before paleo, we can blame your symptoms on RT3. Why did they get worse on paleo? Perhaps one of those things you gave up was what you were running on and you've been plunged into even deeper starvation mode on this diet? At your height and weight, it's not like you have much fat stored away for those peak demand periods. Just brainstorming...
Another thought on RT3...If you've done much reading on it, you know that there isn't a lot of agreement either on the mechanism by which it works or the treatment for it. One theory is that it docks at T3 receptors in cells and blocks T3 from getting in. This is fine when it's adaptive to an environmental stimulus, but sometime RT3 dominance outlives the stimulus that started it in the first place. One theory goes that the RT3 then has to be "dislodged" or "cleared". Once the RT3 is in the cells, it can have a snowball effect...you become hypo at the cellular level, your pituitary tells your thyroid to produce more T4, it does, which stimulates more conversion, which increases RT3 even more. Perhaps the worsening of symptoms was coincidental to the diet and would have happened anyway due to this snowballing effect?
Back to another thought...iron and ferritin...yours is low. This also contributes to RT3 dominance. I know you consume a lot of iron...don't know what you do about it in this case. Injectible?
Are you eating more fruits and veggies now?
"Not part of the Paleo diet" -- Meaning it's not some kind of common combination within the diet. The food itself is Paleo.
The mentioned breakfast data is for the papaya/coconut mixture. It's not part of the Paleo diet. The experiment was based on a testimony of someone reversing their white hair growth by high doses of Vitamin C accompanied by fat. Papaya and Coconut are perfect sources of these. They suggested completely raw diet for "better results", I didn't favour that kind of ride. I didn't find any logical explanation to this claim, but said what the heck. Worst case scenario, I'll have a yummy breakfast ^^
I eat red peppers. They're gigantic. 200-250g. When I eat them, I go for a full piece. Easy.
Came across this article, which seems relevant to my case:
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2011/09/high-ldl-on-paleo-revisited-low-carb-the-thyroid/
However, this, again, doesn't explain my symptoms pre-Paleo. While LDL-Cholesterol is now at the top of the range, it has always been mid-range. TC was always around 130. Now @ 200.
I eat red peppers. They're gigantic. 200-250g. When I eat them, I go for a full piece. Easy.
Came across this article, which seems relevant to my case:
http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2011/09/high-ldl-on-paleo-revisited-low-carb-the-thyroid/
However, this, again, doesn't explain my symptoms pre-Paleo. While LDL-Cholesterol is now at the top of the range, it has always been mid-range. TC was always around 130. Now @ 200.
I agree that it probably was a mistake to remove the carbs from your diet so drastically. If you're very thin, you need those carbs to run on. Belly fat is a hypo symptom.
"According to cronometer, just my breakfast covered 40% RDA of Iron, 173% VitC, 61% Copper, 460kcal & 42g carbs. Since then, my only legitimate source for VitC is Bell Peppers, and I wonder if I'm getting what I need from it." This was which breakfast...paleo, papaya, cereal?
What color are your bell peppers? While one "large" red pepper provides more than 200% RDA, a green one only provides about half that. That should be adequate (provided you eat one "large" - I always love specifics like that when we talk about food - weigh the thing, please). However, if for some reason you are not absorbing, then you might be falling short. One large red pepper (are veggies getting bigger there as they are here?) is a lot of pepper to consume.
No, you're right that none of this explains why you were hypo pre-paleo. However, you indicate a dislike of veggies, so it's possible that you were always somewhat deficient in one or more nutrients. Also, with only TSH to go on until very recently, we don't know if you were hypo pre-paleo or not.
I'm just curious what the papaya and coconut breakfast was supposed to achieve??? I've always found papaya to have a "funny" taste, distinctly un-fruit-like. I don't really like it, so I've never investigated its nutritional value. Is this breakfast part of paleo, or is this an aside you did on your own?
"According to cronometer, just my breakfast covered 40% RDA of Iron, 173% VitC, 61% Copper, 460kcal & 42g carbs. Since then, my only legitimate source for VitC is Bell Peppers, and I wonder if I'm getting what I need from it." This was which breakfast...paleo, papaya, cereal?
What color are your bell peppers? While one "large" red pepper provides more than 200% RDA, a green one only provides about half that. That should be adequate (provided you eat one "large" - I always love specifics like that when we talk about food - weigh the thing, please). However, if for some reason you are not absorbing, then you might be falling short. One large red pepper (are veggies getting bigger there as they are here?) is a lot of pepper to consume.
No, you're right that none of this explains why you were hypo pre-paleo. However, you indicate a dislike of veggies, so it's possible that you were always somewhat deficient in one or more nutrients. Also, with only TSH to go on until very recently, we don't know if you were hypo pre-paleo or not.
I'm just curious what the papaya and coconut breakfast was supposed to achieve??? I've always found papaya to have a "funny" taste, distinctly un-fruit-like. I don't really like it, so I've never investigated its nutritional value. Is this breakfast part of paleo, or is this an aside you did on your own?
No gut issues that I'm aware of.
I'm a big fan of data analysis, so I keep going back to my previous lab tests and crucial turning points throughout the years, most specifically in the past few months. There's something interesting to point out, tell me what I could gather from it.
When I went on Paleo, I simultaneously made an experiment that lasted 3 weeks which included a breakfast of 200-250g raw papaya & ~100g raw coconut meat daily. In those 3 weeks, my stools were crazily soft, to the point it felt like diarrhea but it wasn't. No sign whatsoever of constipation or abnormal digestion. While I don't remember exactly the time things started going south, I do remember it was shortly after I removed this breakfast completely and went for eggs & butter. Took me awhile to realize eggs make me feel like crap. That was new to me, since I never experienced lethargy due to eating eggs before. From carb abundant breakfast to zero carb. Also, what I lost in that transition was the massive amounts of Vitamin C and other nutrients that went along with it, especially Iron to compliment it. According to cronometer, just my breakfast covered 40% RDA of Iron, 173% VitC, 61% Copper, 460kcal & 42g carbs. Since then, my only legitimate source for VitC is Bell Peppers, and I wonder if I'm getting what I need from it.
Before going Paleo, for atleast 3 years my breakfast every single day has been Quaker cereal. My body got used to getting carbs & sugar every morning, and suddenly one day bam, no carbs. That was a mistake to remove those so drastically.
I developed belly-fat. I'm skinny as hell, carved, but for the first time in my life my belly has this weird fat in both sides. My cholesterol is at all-time high, which is expected. I wonder if my liver dysfunction is due to a fatty liver. The reason the ALT score went down may be because I reduced the fat and increased carbs since the last test lab.
None of this explain why I was hypo before going Paleo. However, considering my lifestyle, it could be the same source. I surely didn't get enough nutrients before.
I'll keep adjusting my lifestyle to see what's improving my symptoms. I got back to exercising today, I'll get out more and try to eat more, especially more carbs. Weighting myself today was quite shocking to realize I weight the same as I did in 8th grade, Ouch, lol. I realized that at the doctors office I always forgot to empty my pockets, lol. ~2kg extra.
I'm a big fan of data analysis, so I keep going back to my previous lab tests and crucial turning points throughout the years, most specifically in the past few months. There's something interesting to point out, tell me what I could gather from it.
When I went on Paleo, I simultaneously made an experiment that lasted 3 weeks which included a breakfast of 200-250g raw papaya & ~100g raw coconut meat daily. In those 3 weeks, my stools were crazily soft, to the point it felt like diarrhea but it wasn't. No sign whatsoever of constipation or abnormal digestion. While I don't remember exactly the time things started going south, I do remember it was shortly after I removed this breakfast completely and went for eggs & butter. Took me awhile to realize eggs make me feel like crap. That was new to me, since I never experienced lethargy due to eating eggs before. From carb abundant breakfast to zero carb. Also, what I lost in that transition was the massive amounts of Vitamin C and other nutrients that went along with it, especially Iron to compliment it. According to cronometer, just my breakfast covered 40% RDA of Iron, 173% VitC, 61% Copper, 460kcal & 42g carbs. Since then, my only legitimate source for VitC is Bell Peppers, and I wonder if I'm getting what I need from it.
Before going Paleo, for atleast 3 years my breakfast every single day has been Quaker cereal. My body got used to getting carbs & sugar every morning, and suddenly one day bam, no carbs. That was a mistake to remove those so drastically.
I developed belly-fat. I'm skinny as hell, carved, but for the first time in my life my belly has this weird fat in both sides. My cholesterol is at all-time high, which is expected. I wonder if my liver dysfunction is due to a fatty liver. The reason the ALT score went down may be because I reduced the fat and increased carbs since the last test lab.
None of this explain why I was hypo before going Paleo. However, considering my lifestyle, it could be the same source. I surely didn't get enough nutrients before.
I'll keep adjusting my lifestyle to see what's improving my symptoms. I got back to exercising today, I'll get out more and try to eat more, especially more carbs. Weighting myself today was quite shocking to realize I weight the same as I did in 8th grade, Ouch, lol. I realized that at the doctors office I always forgot to empty my pockets, lol. ~2kg extra.
I should also have mentioned re the selenium that you could possibly have a generalized absorption disorder since your diet is so rich in iron yet your levels are low. If you're not absorbing the iron, maybe you're not absorbing the selenium, either. Any gut issues?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the limited time I had to do some reading, Kresser indicates that it's the underlying problem that has to be treated, i.e. whatever is causing inflammation, etc.?
"As for selenium, I'm eating a Brazil nut every day for the past two weeks or so; even tried adding Kelp for Iodine. No use." Yes, but you only, within the last few days, had your first FT3 test. FT3 could have been even lower pre-Brazil nut. Furthermore, if you're correcting a deficiency, achieving adequate levels may not be instantaneous. Iodine is only necessary for the production of T4 in the thyroid. Once T4 is made (and you have plenty), no more iodine is required in the process. T4 becomes T3 when an atom of iodine is stripped off of it (T4 has four, T3 has three).
If there's a liver dysfunction, it could be the cause. But, yes, which came first?
As with thyroid labs, where the ranges are questionable in the lower half, iron/ferritin suffers the same problems. If you're near the bottom of the range, you're probably actually deficient. Once again, with vitamin D...define "fine". Many people find that D has to be close to top of range to feel well.
"Fact is I crashed after changing my diet for the better. If anything I should be feeling better now, not worse, if the causes were indeed exercise/stress/sun." "For the better" is a pejorative term! LOL What's better today will be anathema tomorrow. I tend to think that any change, even a change for the "better", can have some negative repercussions. I went gluten free a few years ago. It's supposed to be good for the thyroid, but that's not why I did it. Anyway, it was NOT good for me. I ended up with a health problem that I'm virtually certain was the result of the g/f diet. If you crashed after changing your diet, maybe your body is telling you something. This diet may just not be right for YOU. I don't know what the paleo diet involves, but you might scrutinize it carefully for the changes you made and try eliminating possible culprits.
Stress is a huge factor. It can cause RT3 to spike.
"As for selenium, I'm eating a Brazil nut every day for the past two weeks or so; even tried adding Kelp for Iodine. No use." Yes, but you only, within the last few days, had your first FT3 test. FT3 could have been even lower pre-Brazil nut. Furthermore, if you're correcting a deficiency, achieving adequate levels may not be instantaneous. Iodine is only necessary for the production of T4 in the thyroid. Once T4 is made (and you have plenty), no more iodine is required in the process. T4 becomes T3 when an atom of iodine is stripped off of it (T4 has four, T3 has three).
If there's a liver dysfunction, it could be the cause. But, yes, which came first?
As with thyroid labs, where the ranges are questionable in the lower half, iron/ferritin suffers the same problems. If you're near the bottom of the range, you're probably actually deficient. Once again, with vitamin D...define "fine". Many people find that D has to be close to top of range to feel well.
"Fact is I crashed after changing my diet for the better. If anything I should be feeling better now, not worse, if the causes were indeed exercise/stress/sun." "For the better" is a pejorative term! LOL What's better today will be anathema tomorrow. I tend to think that any change, even a change for the "better", can have some negative repercussions. I went gluten free a few years ago. It's supposed to be good for the thyroid, but that's not why I did it. Anyway, it was NOT good for me. I ended up with a health problem that I'm virtually certain was the result of the g/f diet. If you crashed after changing your diet, maybe your body is telling you something. This diet may just not be right for YOU. I don't know what the paleo diet involves, but you might scrutinize it carefully for the changes you made and try eliminating possible culprits.
Stress is a huge factor. It can cause RT3 to spike.
Firstly, thank you so, so much for the analysis and efforts in helping me out.
Just finished reading Chris Kresser's articles on Low T3 syndrome (http://chriskresser.com/low-t3-syndrome-i-its-not-about-the-thyroid) which seems to fit my results. Correct me if I'm wrong. If that's really my case, I'm in a real mess here since the diagnosis and treatment gets further complicated, and with the lack of knowledge of the doctors around here, I could really find myself wandering.
Ferritin has been consistently low since 2005 over 5 lab tests, always nearing the lower range (but the latest result is from 2010). Iron was never really an issue, and even now it's not really that low, but just low in relation to my diet which is Iron-abundant. According to the tracking I made, I averagely consume ~300% RDA of Iron. Which is something to consider obviously, since it seems I don't absorb as much as I should. As for selenium, I'm eating a Brazil nut every day for the past two weeks or so; even tried adding Kelp for Iodine. No use.
FWIW, another irregular result is ALT 48 U/l (0-37), a decrease from 84 U/l (May 16th). The question is whether the thyroid hormones are responsible for this liver dysfunction or vice versa.
Albumin was 5.4 g/dl (3.5-5.2) @ May 16th aswell.
Lets assume Ferritin/Iron are the culprits. What could cause a decrease in absorption? Could my results within the range be that crucial to make such a mess?
Whatever the problem is, I don't think it's diet-related. I mean, the problem was already there. I couldn't emphasize how much better I eat nowadays than I did before. Before going Paleo, a vegetable found its way to my stomach at best once a week. I think that if anything, sudden stop from exercising (I did sports since 4th grade) and abstaining completely from it for years, along with a much more stressful times and seeing the sun significantly less due to staying home much more (being out of a framework for the first time in my life), are the only significant changes made at the time that could lead to this. Lack of Exercise + Stress + Lack of Sun (My Vit D levels are fine). I -Refuse- to believe that the way I feel right now, at this very moment of writing these words, are due to not exercising, being stressed, and/or not being in the sun enough. Fact is I crashed after changing my diet for the better. If anything I should be feeling better now, not worse, if the causes were indeed exercise/stress/sun.
What do you think?
Just finished reading Chris Kresser's articles on Low T3 syndrome (http://chriskresser.com/low-t3-syndrome-i-its-not-about-the-thyroid) which seems to fit my results. Correct me if I'm wrong. If that's really my case, I'm in a real mess here since the diagnosis and treatment gets further complicated, and with the lack of knowledge of the doctors around here, I could really find myself wandering.
Ferritin has been consistently low since 2005 over 5 lab tests, always nearing the lower range (but the latest result is from 2010). Iron was never really an issue, and even now it's not really that low, but just low in relation to my diet which is Iron-abundant. According to the tracking I made, I averagely consume ~300% RDA of Iron. Which is something to consider obviously, since it seems I don't absorb as much as I should. As for selenium, I'm eating a Brazil nut every day for the past two weeks or so; even tried adding Kelp for Iodine. No use.
FWIW, another irregular result is ALT 48 U/l (0-37), a decrease from 84 U/l (May 16th). The question is whether the thyroid hormones are responsible for this liver dysfunction or vice versa.
Albumin was 5.4 g/dl (3.5-5.2) @ May 16th aswell.
Lets assume Ferritin/Iron are the culprits. What could cause a decrease in absorption? Could my results within the range be that crucial to make such a mess?
Whatever the problem is, I don't think it's diet-related. I mean, the problem was already there. I couldn't emphasize how much better I eat nowadays than I did before. Before going Paleo, a vegetable found its way to my stomach at best once a week. I think that if anything, sudden stop from exercising (I did sports since 4th grade) and abstaining completely from it for years, along with a much more stressful times and seeing the sun significantly less due to staying home much more (being out of a framework for the first time in my life), are the only significant changes made at the time that could lead to this. Lack of Exercise + Stress + Lack of Sun (My Vit D levels are fine). I -Refuse- to believe that the way I feel right now, at this very moment of writing these words, are due to not exercising, being stressed, and/or not being in the sun enough. Fact is I crashed after changing my diet for the better. If anything I should be feeling better now, not worse, if the causes were indeed exercise/stress/sun.
What do you think?
So, your FT4 is a little lower in the range than in the first labs you posted. It's still at 66% of range, which is a little on the high side, but not as high. TPOab is negative, so it doesn't look like Hashi's.
Technically, you've found a metabolic problem! Your thyroid puts out mostly T4 and a tiny bit of T3. There's nothing wrong with what your thyroid is producing. By far, the vast majority of T3 comes from conversion. Conversion is not a thyroid process, but a metabolic process. It happens largely in the liver and kidneys, but lesser sites are ubiquitous throughout the body. The end result, however, is that you are hypothyroid on the cellular level.
So, the next question is why aren't you converting?
RT3 might be a factor. The only way the body can get rid of excess T4 is to convert it to T3 or to RT3, which is inert. RT3 is what keeps FT3 levels in check. Many things, including stress, trauma, disease, surgery, starvation (including extreme weight loss programs), etc. can cause the production of RT3 to go up relative to FT3. RT3 can dock at T3 receptors in cells and stop T3 from getting in. So, your RT3 level might be a factor. However, since you aren't on meds, even if your RT3 is high, you are still not going to know the cause.
I believe you mentioned above that your iron/ferritin was low end of range. That's one huge suspect. Low ferritin levels can cause RT3 dominance.
Another is selenium. The enzyme that catalyzes the conversion of T4 to T3 is a selenium-based enzyme (5'deiodinase). In some parts of the world, selenium has been severely depleted in the soil.
Where do you plan to go from here?
Technically, you've found a metabolic problem! Your thyroid puts out mostly T4 and a tiny bit of T3. There's nothing wrong with what your thyroid is producing. By far, the vast majority of T3 comes from conversion. Conversion is not a thyroid process, but a metabolic process. It happens largely in the liver and kidneys, but lesser sites are ubiquitous throughout the body. The end result, however, is that you are hypothyroid on the cellular level.
So, the next question is why aren't you converting?
RT3 might be a factor. The only way the body can get rid of excess T4 is to convert it to T3 or to RT3, which is inert. RT3 is what keeps FT3 levels in check. Many things, including stress, trauma, disease, surgery, starvation (including extreme weight loss programs), etc. can cause the production of RT3 to go up relative to FT3. RT3 can dock at T3 receptors in cells and stop T3 from getting in. So, your RT3 level might be a factor. However, since you aren't on meds, even if your RT3 is high, you are still not going to know the cause.
I believe you mentioned above that your iron/ferritin was low end of range. That's one huge suspect. Low ferritin levels can cause RT3 dominance.
Another is selenium. The enzyme that catalyzes the conversion of T4 to T3 is a selenium-based enzyme (5'deiodinase). In some parts of the world, selenium has been severely depleted in the soil.
Where do you plan to go from here?
Update:
TSH came out 2.02 mIu/l (0.35-5.5) this time, and FT4 1.53 ng/dL (0.80-1.90). But...
FT3 2.6 pg/mL (3.8-6.0).
Can't believe I'm happy to find a thyroid problem, lol.
Still waiting for the antibodies results to get a better clue about the situation.
TSH came out 2.02 mIu/l (0.35-5.5) this time, and FT4 1.53 ng/dL (0.80-1.90). But...
FT3 2.6 pg/mL (3.8-6.0).
Can't believe I'm happy to find a thyroid problem, lol.
Still waiting for the antibodies results to get a better clue about the situation.
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