Aa
Someone please help me..
Hello, I had a ttl thyroidectomy in 2012. Switched from Synthroid to Armor ( currently have been on 1 grain for the whole time) and have been on the Armor for a year and a half now. My recent labs are : TSH=8.6, FT3=3.1, FT4=.7 Reverse T3=6 I am HYPO.. I cannot move. I hurt so bad everywhere. I have gained 40 pounds in less than 2 years. I spend most of my time in bed, or sitting in the house because any activity I do, causes me severe joint pain. I flare up, hands swell so bad they want to burst from inside out! I have been diagnosed with RA which I think it is from the thyroid issue.
Can I go on cytomel onlly? Can I add it to my Armor?
Should I have my adrenals tested? If so, should I have them done with the saliva test only?
I have a prescript for cytomel right now. I need to feel better. I cannot take much more. Please someone, help me. Thank you
Can I go on cytomel onlly? Can I add it to my Armor?
Should I have my adrenals tested? If so, should I have them done with the saliva test only?
I have a prescript for cytomel right now. I need to feel better. I cannot take much more. Please someone, help me. Thank you
Thanks. I agree. I had normal FT3. BUT, the reverse T3 was only a 6. I am not going to take any Cytomel until seeing the endo. dr I will post everything after my visit. Have great weekend
It's possible because it's generic Cytomel, (some do better on name brands) but you may feel crummy and having the symptoms you're getting because you may be taking too much T3, and not enough T4. Though you didn't post lab ranges, I know a .7 FT4 would leave me sleeping most of the day and in a total fog. Hopefully all goes well with your endo appointment, I wish you luck with everything.
I dont have the lab references, the doctor called me with the results over the phone, quoted the results and then quoted the labs ranges... and then said that I was very hypo. She did not give me the paper with the results and I did not drive the hour drive to get the paper. I trust her phone call.
I am having her fax the results with the labs ranges to the endo when I get the appointment.
Thanks for this information, I will definitely discuss with the Endo doc. when I get there.
I am having her fax the results with the labs ranges to the endo when I get the appointment.
Thanks for this information, I will definitely discuss with the Endo doc. when I get there.
Thanks everyone. I am on my way to an Endocrinologist next week. I appreciate everyone's input and experiences.
COMMUNITY LEADER
The numbers you posted are lab results, not reference ranges. Reference ranges are, typically listed in parenthesis beside the result.
I know exactly what your point is. You don't want to increase thyroid med until you know if you have an adrenal issue. That's all well and good.
You tell me that adrenal symptoms are screaming at you -- those are the same symptoms of hypothyroidism, so you really have nothing to lose in trying the thyroid med.
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you all the best.
I know exactly what your point is. You don't want to increase thyroid med until you know if you have an adrenal issue. That's all well and good.
You tell me that adrenal symptoms are screaming at you -- those are the same symptoms of hypothyroidism, so you really have nothing to lose in trying the thyroid med.
Whatever you decide to do, I wish you all the best.
It's all about the details!!!
-Lab reference ranges not actual Lab results!
Labs design they own minimum and maximum so-called normal references, which are based on mainly mathematical or statistical models.
-Generic versus original brand thyroid meds!
You may get more or less drug effectiveness from generic.
RA vs Hypothyroid, or Hypoadrenal issues!
Sometimes, symptoms overlap, you the patient knows your body best.
-Conventional serum or urine adrenal testing vs (usually not conventional)saliva testing for cellular adrenal function!)
Total cortisol levels won't be of help from serum tests, you need unbound cortisol levels which are the bio-active levels from saliva testing
(4 x cortisol))
These details can make a huge difference in someone's treatment
and outcome.
Cheers.
Niko
-Lab reference ranges not actual Lab results!
Labs design they own minimum and maximum so-called normal references, which are based on mainly mathematical or statistical models.
-Generic versus original brand thyroid meds!
You may get more or less drug effectiveness from generic.
RA vs Hypothyroid, or Hypoadrenal issues!
Sometimes, symptoms overlap, you the patient knows your body best.
-Conventional serum or urine adrenal testing vs (usually not conventional)saliva testing for cellular adrenal function!)
Total cortisol levels won't be of help from serum tests, you need unbound cortisol levels which are the bio-active levels from saliva testing
(4 x cortisol))
These details can make a huge difference in someone's treatment
and outcome.
Cheers.
Niko
Thank you, I am taking my Armore with the T3. HOWEVER, when I added the T3, I GOT WORSE.. The pain was 5 times worse. I swelled up , every joint in my body would not move., I got scared, so I did not take the T3 yesterday and now, the pain has gone way way down ,and the swelling is down also.. I still have the pain, which is the RA , but not like before. The cytomel is the generic brand.. I wonder if this has anything to do with it.
Barb, I am replying to your May 7th reply. My one and only thread was from May 7th also. I am replying to your first reply, before you saw that you skimmed over my post and missed the fact that I had a total thyroidectomy. I posted my ranges there, and, as far as I can see, they are still there on my original post that you have replied to twice. My ranges are
F T3- 3.1 TSH--- 8.6 F T4 .7 and the Reverse T3 ---6 these were my ranges. As far as the symptoms for the adrenal deficiency, I am screaming it, with every symptom they suggest. I am saying that my concern is, maybe the reason I am getting worse is because this has not been looked into and my meds do need to be adjusted. But why adjust them unless we know the levels of the Adrenals? I am concerned this could only cause more problems and I do not need any additional issues with the pain I am in right now. I have spent the past week in bed.. walking maybe here and there, and then, I swell up.. can barely walk around the block anymore. If I do push myself to walk around the block, I am in bed for hours after it.. I am calling doctors today to get the test for adrenal deficiency
F T3- 3.1 TSH--- 8.6 F T4 .7 and the Reverse T3 ---6 these were my ranges. As far as the symptoms for the adrenal deficiency, I am screaming it, with every symptom they suggest. I am saying that my concern is, maybe the reason I am getting worse is because this has not been looked into and my meds do need to be adjusted. But why adjust them unless we know the levels of the Adrenals? I am concerned this could only cause more problems and I do not need any additional issues with the pain I am in right now. I have spent the past week in bed.. walking maybe here and there, and then, I swell up.. can barely walk around the block anymore. If I do push myself to walk around the block, I am in bed for hours after it.. I am calling doctors today to get the test for adrenal deficiency
COMMUNITY LEADER
Where did you find ranges in this thread? I've looked it over umpteen times and while I see results in the original post, I don't see any reference ranges to go with them. Without reference ranges, there's no way we can tell where the results actually fall within (or out of) the ranges.
Are you taking the Armour still along with the Cytomel, or are you just taking the Cytomel alone for now? You mentioned trying upping your Armour mid-day, so I'm not sure what you're taking. By your ranges, I think you need an increase in not just the T3, but T4 as well-if you're taking the Armour and the 10mcg of Cytomel on top of it, you may be getting way too much T3 medication and not enough T4. Your FT4 was very low, so I think some more T4 would benefit you. It won't hurt to check adrenal function, but you can have problems occur overdoing(or only being on) the T3. Honestly, if your adrenals come back alright, I would ask for a raise in your thyroid meds, whether the NatureThroid or the Armour, because you're indeed pretty hypo looking to me.
COMMUNITY LEADER
While I'm very well aware that taking thyroid hormones with a diagnosed, uncorrected, adrenal issue, can exacerbate the adrenal issue, there hasn't been any real evidence of adrenal fatigue, in this case. The question was merely asked in the original post if adrenals should be tested.
Patti has already taken Armour and is now taking straight T3, which has an immediate impact on the system vs a T4 med, that would build, gradually, in the system. She stayed at 1 grain of Armour for a year and a half. Had the Armour been increased, as recommended, many of the issues may not have presented.
If all adrenal issues were completely ruled out before starting on thyroid medication, most of us would never even start thyroid med, since doctors don't even recognize adrenal fatigue or insufficiency as a valid condition.
Lest anyone misunderstand, I do believe that a possible adrenal issue should be investigated; however, considering past history, since there's no real evidence, in this case, that an adrenal issue exists, withholding thyroid med may very well be a hindrance, as could taking straight T3.
Patti has already taken Armour and is now taking straight T3, which has an immediate impact on the system vs a T4 med, that would build, gradually, in the system. She stayed at 1 grain of Armour for a year and a half. Had the Armour been increased, as recommended, many of the issues may not have presented.
If all adrenal issues were completely ruled out before starting on thyroid medication, most of us would never even start thyroid med, since doctors don't even recognize adrenal fatigue or insufficiency as a valid condition.
Lest anyone misunderstand, I do believe that a possible adrenal issue should be investigated; however, considering past history, since there's no real evidence, in this case, that an adrenal issue exists, withholding thyroid med may very well be a hindrance, as could taking straight T3.
In the presence of Adrenal Fatigue, hormones like thyroid, cortisol, progesterone, estrogen, testosterone are not functioning at their optimal
levels.
One could say-parallel to what Barb mentioned- also a lot of adrenal fatigue symptoms mimic those of hypothyroid issues, so by taking Nature Throid, you could be very well, not only prolonging your agony, but risking your adrenal fatigue to worsen, severely compromising adrenal recovery.
When the two conditions, hypothyroid and adrenal fatigue, coexist,
which is normal for many sufferers, adrenal fatigue must be addressed first.
Any attempt to treat the thyroid only while ignoring the presence of adrenal fatigue, is simply dangerous. It's like adding more fuel to the fire, as I mentioned in my previous reply.
So, adrenal fatigue should be ruled out, before increasing thyroid meds.
If Lab results come back negative for it, then only you could try upping your dose as a challenge.
I have learnt to pay attention to complexity, in order to not only survive in a complex world, but to truly thrive and in this process, which has been very gratifying, helping others do & achieve the same.
And complex this field of medicine, it is indeed.
If you have any questions, let me know.
Cheers.
Niko
PS
By the way, Happy Mother's Day to all Mothers!
COMMUNITY LEADER
I'm sorry, I don't see any reference ranges, with the results, in your first post above, or were you referring to a different thread? If you've posted them in a different thread, no one would know to go find them; they need to be posted with results, in order for us to be able to help you.
If I start researching symptoms, I can prove to myself that I have at least a couple of any number of horrible things wrong with me, aside from my obvious thyroid issues. A lot of hypo symptoms mimic those of adrenal issues, so by not taking the NatureThroid, you could very well, only be prolonging your agony.
Taking T3 med alone, such as with cytomel is, typically, only ever done when one has an RT3 issue. Because T3 med is quite fast acting, it will have a pretty strong effect on your FT3 levels, quickly. FT3 is the hormone that correlates best with symptoms.
If I start researching symptoms, I can prove to myself that I have at least a couple of any number of horrible things wrong with me, aside from my obvious thyroid issues. A lot of hypo symptoms mimic those of adrenal issues, so by not taking the NatureThroid, you could very well, only be prolonging your agony.
Taking T3 med alone, such as with cytomel is, typically, only ever done when one has an RT3 issue. Because T3 med is quite fast acting, it will have a pretty strong effect on your FT3 levels, quickly. FT3 is the hormone that correlates best with symptoms.
Hi, thank you. My ranges are in my first post for help. I have been doing some pretty extensive research, and, from my symptoms and what I read, I believe I have adrenal issues. I am not starting the nature throid until I get adrenals tested. The nature throid says not to take it if you have adrenal insufficiency. I am taking 5 mcg of the generic cytomel twice a day. HOWEVER, since I have been taking it, only 4 doses now, my pain in joints is getting worse.. Not sure I understand this. or if this is the cause.. I feel a little better, but the pain is still there and pretty bad.. I spent the last two days in bed.. literally..
Thank you. I asked for the saliva test. Went to a pharmacy that carries it, they do not accept insurance . I need to research the area to find it. Thanks
COMMUNITY LEADER
What makes you think you have an adrenal issue? It's normal for the adrenal glands to kick in and take up the slack when the thyroid fails. Most often, taking a therapeutic dose of thyroid medication will let your body go back to normal.
You're already taking Armour, so changing to NatureThroid isn't going to hurt anything.. What dose of generic cytomel did you take and did you take it all at once?
You didn't tell us yet, what the reference ranges are for the Free T3 and Free T4.
It's true that conventional medicine doesn't, typically, recognize adrenal fatigue and you would most likely have to go to an ND or Functional Medicine doctor. You should be aware that these doctors, most often, do not accept insurance and they tend to be very expensive.
You're already taking Armour, so changing to NatureThroid isn't going to hurt anything.. What dose of generic cytomel did you take and did you take it all at once?
You didn't tell us yet, what the reference ranges are for the Free T3 and Free T4.
It's true that conventional medicine doesn't, typically, recognize adrenal fatigue and you would most likely have to go to an ND or Functional Medicine doctor. You should be aware that these doctors, most often, do not accept insurance and they tend to be very expensive.
Hey Patti,
Do you know what kind of adrenal deficiency tests you're getting?
If you're going conventional, chances are, just like in thyroid disorders,
you might be staying in limbo a little while longer, as adrenal deficiencies are not recognized by conventional endocrinology unless it is Addison's or total adrenal failure.
One particular test, which I suggest you look into, only as a reference,
is the Functional Adrenal Stress Profile, a salivary test which measures the
bioactive levels of hormones (cortisol x 4 and DHEA-averaged) by BioHealth
Labs.
What type of doctor are you seeing for your thyroid issues?
The adrenal issues would be best addressed by an ND or Functional Medicine Doctor.
Your current dosage sounds low, however, if suffering from adrenal fatigue,
less fuel in the fire would be a good thing!
If your body is adrenally exhausted, a low energy state is the default for adrenal recovery purposes( as a survival mechanism), therefore the normal thyroid treatment is contra-indicated in such a case.
Best wishes.
Niko
Do you know what kind of adrenal deficiency tests you're getting?
If you're going conventional, chances are, just like in thyroid disorders,
you might be staying in limbo a little while longer, as adrenal deficiencies are not recognized by conventional endocrinology unless it is Addison's or total adrenal failure.
One particular test, which I suggest you look into, only as a reference,
is the Functional Adrenal Stress Profile, a salivary test which measures the
bioactive levels of hormones (cortisol x 4 and DHEA-averaged) by BioHealth
Labs.
What type of doctor are you seeing for your thyroid issues?
The adrenal issues would be best addressed by an ND or Functional Medicine Doctor.
Your current dosage sounds low, however, if suffering from adrenal fatigue,
less fuel in the fire would be a good thing!
If your body is adrenally exhausted, a low energy state is the default for adrenal recovery purposes( as a survival mechanism), therefore the normal thyroid treatment is contra-indicated in such a case.
Best wishes.
Niko
Hi, I repeated asked my dr, to check my free t 3. Twice she didn't put it on the order. I finally went in and argued for it, which seems to be the norm now adays to get oneself treated appropriately.
I asked for nature throid and cytomel.. from reading others blogs. I have not had my adrenals checked so cannot take the nature throid until then. I got the generic cytomel. Took one yesterday and ended up in a flare, in bed, joints screaming in pain. could barely walk and or stand up. I know I am real hypo now, yet the t
free t 3 levels were in the low normal ranges. I need to research more. Get for an adrenal deficiency test and I am going to add another grain to my aromor during mid day , and see how i start to feel and get another check in a month. Thanks for answering.
I asked for nature throid and cytomel.. from reading others blogs. I have not had my adrenals checked so cannot take the nature throid until then. I got the generic cytomel. Took one yesterday and ended up in a flare, in bed, joints screaming in pain. could barely walk and or stand up. I know I am real hypo now, yet the t
free t 3 levels were in the low normal ranges. I need to research more. Get for an adrenal deficiency test and I am going to add another grain to my aromor during mid day , and see how i start to feel and get another check in a month. Thanks for answering.
Agreed, why hasn't your Armour been upped? Though lab ranges vary, if it's anything close to mine, your ranges all scream hypo. Is there a reason they won't up it?
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Why haven't you increased your Armour dosage? 1 grain is not very much and it's no wonder you have symptoms, as your hormone levels look quite low.
Doesn't look like you need cytomel; simply increase your Armour dosage.
Do you have Hashimoto's?