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What medical or hormonal factors could cause this response?
I seem to have a very elevated response to anger/anxiety - i.e. I go up and it takes way longer than for most people to get the chemicals out of my system. Fight or flight kicks in and long after I have resolved the actual issue, I feel as if I had had a bunch of coffee - sometimes going into the next day. Stress chemicals dumped into my system. I also have a similar reaction to even the smallest amounts of caffeine - the most I can tolerate is a half a cup of decaffeinated coffee.
I am on Levothyroxine and Liothyronine (generic Cytomel). Levels are normal although I'm waiting on recent tests to come back. I am 51 y/o and doc says I am not yet in menopause. Hot flashes are occasional and very slight so I don't think that's the culprit, but could be wrong.
What could be causing this?
Thank you
I am on Levothyroxine and Liothyronine (generic Cytomel). Levels are normal although I'm waiting on recent tests to come back. I am 51 y/o and doc says I am not yet in menopause. Hot flashes are occasional and very slight so I don't think that's the culprit, but could be wrong.
What could be causing this?
Thank you
I am late to the party here, but just wanted to say that I also don't understand how a small dose of T3 would cause the symptoms you mention. I have read that such reactions, when starting or increasing T3 meds, have been reported to sometimes be associated with having inadequate levels of iron or too low/too high levels of cortisol. Have you ever been tested for cortisol and ferritin?
One more note - it does help in some respects so it is important to find that balance.
I would just like to update this thread for anyone reading it in the future that I came down on the T3 a bit and many of these symptoms disappeared immediately. The anger, the adrenaline, the sweating, and the level of anxiety has dropped waaaay down from what it was.
I still have to moderate stimulants, so some core issues haven't changed, but at least now everything isn't ramped up to a 10 by taking too much Cytomel.
I"m more tired now and having some hypo symptoms, but given the choice I'll take the latter. it's a balance.
To all those out there taking Cytomel and similar, while some people can tolerate it well, it absolutely can cause side effects or affect you in even small doses if you are sensitive to it, or if your levels are slightly off. Check this board even, there are other people who have had issues as well. So experiment to find the dose that is right for you.
I still have to moderate stimulants, so some core issues haven't changed, but at least now everything isn't ramped up to a 10 by taking too much Cytomel.
I"m more tired now and having some hypo symptoms, but given the choice I'll take the latter. it's a balance.
To all those out there taking Cytomel and similar, while some people can tolerate it well, it absolutely can cause side effects or affect you in even small doses if you are sensitive to it, or if your levels are slightly off. Check this board even, there are other people who have had issues as well. So experiment to find the dose that is right for you.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Yes, Free T3 is used by every cell in the body... This isn't something you'd have learned in biology.
Yes, you probably do need a doctor to run the proper tests if you can find one who will do so, since most doctors won't.
Good luck...
Yes, you probably do need a doctor to run the proper tests if you can find one who will do so, since most doctors won't.
Good luck...
Wow. T3 is used by every cell in the body? I know so little about how thiese things work. Slept through biology and hated every minute of the class. Now I wish I had paid attention.
Youknow I actually can feel a small amount of caffeine even in decaf coffee or chcolate - sometimes. Other times not as much. Something's definitely off with the way my system responds to stress/cortisol - just trying to figure out what.
I think the other participants have left the thread, but thanks to all for the responses. It'sll probably be hard to really tell what's going on without a doctor.
Youknow I actually can feel a small amount of caffeine even in decaf coffee or chcolate - sometimes. Other times not as much. Something's definitely off with the way my system responds to stress/cortisol - just trying to figure out what.
I think the other participants have left the thread, but thanks to all for the responses. It'sll probably be hard to really tell what's going on without a doctor.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I suppose I probably worded that incorrectly, because like most medications our body does have to adjust to taking a new medication, but cytomel doesn't build in our system like the T4 meds do, so cytomel is out out of your system very quickly... for instance, once you start levothyroxine, Synthroid or any other T4 med, it takes 4-6 weeks for it build to full potential in your blood. Likewise, when stopping T4 med, it takes time to get out of the system.
It's not the least unusual that you'd feel some fogginess or other changes after missing a few doses, because your body has to adjust to not having the medication after being used to having it, just like stopping any medication that's helping you feel better.
It's also not unusual that your cramps (assuming you mean menstrual) have eased since starting on the cytomel, because thyroid hormones (or lack of) greatly affect the menstrual cycle. Lack of thyroid hormones can cause miscarriage, erratic periods or complete lack of periods. Since Free T3 is the hormone that's used by every single cell in the body, it would stand to reason you'd feel the effects of adjusting the T3 med much more quickly than you would by adjusting the T4 med, which takes a couple of weeks to feel much effect.
What little bit of caffeine there is in decaff coffee will only "add up" to enough to cause an issue if you are drinking multiple cups of it/day...
It's not the least unusual that you'd feel some fogginess or other changes after missing a few doses, because your body has to adjust to not having the medication after being used to having it, just like stopping any medication that's helping you feel better.
It's also not unusual that your cramps (assuming you mean menstrual) have eased since starting on the cytomel, because thyroid hormones (or lack of) greatly affect the menstrual cycle. Lack of thyroid hormones can cause miscarriage, erratic periods or complete lack of periods. Since Free T3 is the hormone that's used by every single cell in the body, it would stand to reason you'd feel the effects of adjusting the T3 med much more quickly than you would by adjusting the T4 med, which takes a couple of weeks to feel much effect.
What little bit of caffeine there is in decaff coffee will only "add up" to enough to cause an issue if you are drinking multiple cups of it/day...
And another thing, it's odd but Cytomel helped my very bad (like going to the emergency room, bad) cramps - they are still a problem but are more "normal" now. That's one reason I'm hesitant to adjust the level...
Well, more accurately, the whole combination of treating the thyroid helped but the cytomel does seem to have an effect.
Well, more accurately, the whole combination of treating the thyroid helped but the cytomel does seem to have an effect.
Thank you Barb -
Interesting then, so there's no adjustment period while the overall level comes down? Because I do experience some fogginess and changes within a few days when a few doses of cytomel are missed. Very sensitive system.
And actually, just for the record, decaf coffee does have a small caffeine content, so it can add up.
Interesting then, so there's no adjustment period while the overall level comes down? Because I do experience some fogginess and changes within a few days when a few doses of cytomel are missed. Very sensitive system.
And actually, just for the record, decaf coffee does have a small caffeine content, so it can add up.
COMMUNITY LEADER
You said in a post further up that you have the same issue with decaff coffee, too, but that makes no sense, because if there's no caffeine in the coffee, something else is causing your strong reaction.
Because cytomel (T3) is fast acting, it's not like the T4 meds that take 4-6 weeks to build in your system. Cytomel (T3) gets into your system quickly, peaks and is neutralized within a few hours, there really is no "adjustment" period for it. A dose of, either, 2.5 mcg or 5 mcg of Cytomel is not enough to make a difference with the anger issues you're having. Omega 3 should have no affect on your FT3 levels and it should not cause insomnia.
Because cytomel (T3) is fast acting, it's not like the T4 meds that take 4-6 weeks to build in your system. Cytomel (T3) gets into your system quickly, peaks and is neutralized within a few hours, there really is no "adjustment" period for it. A dose of, either, 2.5 mcg or 5 mcg of Cytomel is not enough to make a difference with the anger issues you're having. Omega 3 should have no affect on your FT3 levels and it should not cause insomnia.
Thanks Barb.
Yeah, maybe. Although I have a similar reaction to caffeine and that's what doesn't make sense.
I decided this morning to halve my Cytomel and see if it helps. Do you know by chance how long it takes for it to adjust and find its new level? 4 weeks? 6 weeks? If the change causes severe fatigue I can always go back.
Wondering if the combination of lowered Cytomel and Omega 3s would work. Although Omega 3s can also cause side effects such as insomnia, at least according to what some people say. So it would have to be tested to see how it works.
Yeah, maybe. Although I have a similar reaction to caffeine and that's what doesn't make sense.
I decided this morning to halve my Cytomel and see if it helps. Do you know by chance how long it takes for it to adjust and find its new level? 4 weeks? 6 weeks? If the change causes severe fatigue I can always go back.
Wondering if the combination of lowered Cytomel and Omega 3s would work. Although Omega 3s can also cause side effects such as insomnia, at least according to what some people say. So it would have to be tested to see how it works.
COMMUNITY LEADER
I've never heard of T3 med causing such a reaction and I don't think you're taking enough T3 med to cause such a reaction anyway.
I'm sorry, but to me, your situation of not being able to "come down" from this anger doesn't sound like a hormonal issue, though adrenaline does increase during anger... it sounds more like an emotional issue or anger management problem, if that makes sense. I've seen others with similar issues and anger management therapy has helped immensely. Anger management can help you recognize what triggers your anger, recognize when you're becoming angry, learn to respond in a controlled healthy manner, and explore underlying feelings that bring on anger.
If your anger were dissipating and you were forgiving like you think you are, your adrenaline levels would be declining as well.
I'm sorry, but to me, your situation of not being able to "come down" from this anger doesn't sound like a hormonal issue, though adrenaline does increase during anger... it sounds more like an emotional issue or anger management problem, if that makes sense. I've seen others with similar issues and anger management therapy has helped immensely. Anger management can help you recognize what triggers your anger, recognize when you're becoming angry, learn to respond in a controlled healthy manner, and explore underlying feelings that bring on anger.
If your anger were dissipating and you were forgiving like you think you are, your adrenaline levels would be declining as well.
Thanks Barb. I just didn't want to shut down the discussion prematurely and wanted to explore the subject more.
Yesterday afternoon I got angry about something - nothing major, just a conflict with someone that's irresolvable at this time, so not worth confronting. That was about 5 pm. I went from totally calm and happy, to angry, and spent the evening trying to discharge the anger from my system - to forgive, to watch tv and distract, to focus on other things, to identify my part in it, to relax - to no avail. It's 8:24 am and I woke up with the -not sure if it's adrenaline or cortisol - still in my system. It should go away later today or in a day or so if there is no more conflict. That's a really long response time. Most people would probably come down in a few hours. Yet I woke up feeling as if I had had coffee - racing internally. I've intellectually let go of it and moved on, yet my system is racing.
I've wondered if it might be side effects from the T3, but am waiting on the test results.
Would this be cortisol then?
Yesterday afternoon I got angry about something - nothing major, just a conflict with someone that's irresolvable at this time, so not worth confronting. That was about 5 pm. I went from totally calm and happy, to angry, and spent the evening trying to discharge the anger from my system - to forgive, to watch tv and distract, to focus on other things, to identify my part in it, to relax - to no avail. It's 8:24 am and I woke up with the -not sure if it's adrenaline or cortisol - still in my system. It should go away later today or in a day or so if there is no more conflict. That's a really long response time. Most people would probably come down in a few hours. Yet I woke up feeling as if I had had coffee - racing internally. I've intellectually let go of it and moved on, yet my system is racing.
I've wondered if it might be side effects from the T3, but am waiting on the test results.
Would this be cortisol then?
COMMUNITY LEADER
You can not unselect, edit or change anything within your post, once you've posted it... That may be a feature that's coming in the future, but we don't know when. That shouldn't stop you from posting... we all understand that mistakes are made and there are no hard feelings (on my part) that you mistakenly selected my comment as the best answer, when you didn't mean to...
"Beta-blockers are one of the most widely prescribed classes of drugs to treat hypertension (high blood pressure) and are a mainstay treatment of congestive heart failure. Beta-blockers work by blocking the effects of epinephrine (adrenaline) and slowing the heart's rate, thereby decreasing the heart’s demand for oxygen. Long-term use of beta-blockers helps manage chronic heart failure."
If all heart tests, including blood pressure and heart rate, are normal, beta blocker would not be warranted.
"Beta-blockers are one of the most widely prescribed classes of drugs to treat hypertension (high blood pressure) and are a mainstay treatment of congestive heart failure. Beta-blockers work by blocking the effects of epinephrine (adrenaline) and slowing the heart's rate, thereby decreasing the heart’s demand for oxygen. Long-term use of beta-blockers helps manage chronic heart failure."
If all heart tests, including blood pressure and heart rate, are normal, beta blocker would not be warranted.
Beta-blockers are a class of drugs for anxiety that block the action of adrenaline. Natural agents that have beta-blocking activity include grape seed extract (procyanidins), green tea, hawthorn, magnesium, and taurine (amino acid).
This was very helpful info, thank you. What's the best way to approach an overload of this in the system?
Selected this as best answer by mistake..no offense... Still looking to explore this question more.
It won't let me unselect, edit, or change anything! Very frustrating, especially in a community where you are posting personal details. GRR. This seems like a good community but I may or may not participate in future threads due to that.
It won't let me unselect, edit, or change anything! Very frustrating, especially in a community where you are posting personal details. GRR. This seems like a good community but I may or may not participate in future threads due to that.
Thanks,
No, I'm uninsured in a non-medicaid state, so until I am working (that may be a while due to circumstances), I can only do the tests the clinic is willing to help with. I"ve asked for those, but they declined. Different doc now and I"ve just approached her with this issue, so I'm going to see if she is able to approve.
There was also a scope test they wanted to do for my stomach, but that is unavailable as well for the same reasons. That's why I'm trying to figure it out on an internet board.
What does one do to treat cortisol problems?
No, I'm uninsured in a non-medicaid state, so until I am working (that may be a while due to circumstances), I can only do the tests the clinic is willing to help with. I"ve asked for those, but they declined. Different doc now and I"ve just approached her with this issue, so I'm going to see if she is able to approve.
There was also a scope test they wanted to do for my stomach, but that is unavailable as well for the same reasons. That's why I'm trying to figure it out on an internet board.
What does one do to treat cortisol problems?
COMMUNITY LEADER
The symptoms you describe can also be present when one is hypothyroid (needs a higher dose of thyroid medication)...
Decaffeinated coffee should not have such an effect on you.
Have you had any adrenal testing done?
Decaffeinated coffee should not have such an effect on you.
Have you had any adrenal testing done?
The stress system relies on two key hormones adrenaline and cortisol. Adrenaline works short term while cortisol works long term. Cortisol has a much larger momentum than adrenaline so this hormone builds up slowly and takes a long time to go back to normal. If you are constantly increasing adrenaline then your levels of cortisol slowly increase too. Having too much cortisol means the recovery time from any adrenaline surge is going to be longer.
The brain and the gastrointestinal system are intimately connected and scientists call this the gut-brain axis. If you are experiencing gastrointestinal upset with no obvious physical cause you have to consider stress as a possible cause.
The brain and the gastrointestinal system are intimately connected and scientists call this the gut-brain axis. If you are experiencing gastrointestinal upset with no obvious physical cause you have to consider stress as a possible cause.
Thanks,
I'll have the labs back soon.
Levo 88 mcg, Cytomel 5 mcg
The only other thing might be an as yet undiagnosed problem with abdominal distention, bloating causing me to gain several inches, which is stable, does not come and go. And profuse sweating only when I am in a bent over position such as in the garden. Had a thorough battery of heart tests lately and they were all clean. I don't think those things are related, since I had the anger/anxiety before the onset of those.
When the cytomel level was slightly higher, making me hyprthyroid, these things (internal adrenaline) were much worse. At that time it was also accompanied by a flush feeling on the back. So the agitation now is similar but dialed down quite a bit now that the level is down.
Maybe also fatigue and sometimes a brain fog that will last all day which comes and goes.
I'll have the labs back soon.
Levo 88 mcg, Cytomel 5 mcg
The only other thing might be an as yet undiagnosed problem with abdominal distention, bloating causing me to gain several inches, which is stable, does not come and go. And profuse sweating only when I am in a bent over position such as in the garden. Had a thorough battery of heart tests lately and they were all clean. I don't think those things are related, since I had the anger/anxiety before the onset of those.
When the cytomel level was slightly higher, making me hyprthyroid, these things (internal adrenaline) were much worse. At that time it was also accompanied by a flush feeling on the back. So the agitation now is similar but dialed down quite a bit now that the level is down.
Maybe also fatigue and sometimes a brain fog that will last all day which comes and goes.
Just because your thyroid levels are within the so-called "normal" ranges does not mean that is adequate for you. The ranges are far too broad to be functional across their entire breadth for everyone. Please post the actual test results and reference ranges shown on the lab report. Also, What are the daily doses of Levo and Liothyronine? Do you have any other symptoms?
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