elevated thyroid antibodies and symptoms

[chris062]

hello, i am a 20 year old female and some years now i have been having high thyroid antibodies but normal TSH and T4 so i never took thyroxin. About a year ago i had an acute vertigo/nausea for a few weeks which slowly went away in a period of four months, but still the feeling of nausea returns when i exercise in gym or when i get tired. When i first had the vertigo a year ago, because of my family history(a first digree relative has MS) i had an MRI which was clear.
Now, apart from the mild nausea, i get some muscle twitching(not in specific parts of the body) that comes and goes. I also get the feeling of cold hands and feet sometimes which is also not consistent.  So, i would like to ask if anyone knows if by any chance the symptoms i'am describing could be related to my elevated thyroid antiboties.
thank you

[kismet_33301]

Hi Chris - sorry for your problems I am currently having exactly the same situation so at least you are not alone. I recently adjusted my thyroid meds due to a very high TSH and I got the TSH back under control (t3/t4 was fine the whole time) and I feel fine as far as any fatigue and depression but at last check my antibodies were way up and I am still having some balance problems, tinnitus, headaches and just in generally not feeling great.

Did you have any inner ear diagnostic tests done in addition or since that MRI? Even if you don't have an ear ache, you could still have some calcified matter stuck in the inner ear mechanisms that can really mess with your balance. There is also a correlation between the inner ear & blood circulation in the brain which as you can imagine could cause some neuro issues.... personally I am having dysautonomic issues like changing blood pressure which I imagine contributes to dizziness.

Or of course you could just have a Magnesium deficit (muscle twitches & calcium deposits throughout the body). Autoimmune problems can cause a lot of inflammation and/or possible impact the intestine's ability to properly absorb nutrients from your diet so borderline deficiencies can pop up from time to time. I've been told again & again that it is important to get omega oils and stay hydrated - and I have recently had the same advice repeated for inner ear issues.

Did you have any other blood test that would rule out vitamin/mineral deficiencies? If you had elevated calcium it could point to a parathyroid problem. The parathyroid glands have little to do with the thyroid gland other then proximity but they can be affected by autoimmune conditions (which is what antibodies suggest - Hasimoto's), and these glands are responsible for regulating blood calcium.

Well, that's my two cents if you made it past all the other back & forth above. Good luck I hope you (we) feel better soon.

[ewford]

Danie, some of my first major symptoms were horrible back pain, MAJOR CFS, and vertigo.

[ewford]

most definately.  I had 3 negative labcorp Lyme tests and saw at least 5 diff doctors for 8 diff concerns.  All my tests were borderline/normal so I was deemed a Pychiatric case and put on antidepressants and told to see a Pychiatrist.  I keept saying "ONE thing created these symptoms! " and the doctors ignored me.  I went to the emergency room with stabbing pains in stomach, vertigo, chronic body pain, headaches, and the E docs laughed at me.

  It wasn't until I contacted Dr Garth Nicolson at IMMED who told me "No standard or ID doc is ever gonna figure this out, you need to find an ILADS Dr.  Which I did.  He spent 3 hours with me taking a history, listening very carefully and told me to get one further Labcorp Lyme test.  He said it will prob be negative.  It was.

I had my blood drawn, centrifuged and sent to California where I tested positive for Bartonella (frontal lobe headaches, eye pain, ankle/feet pain symptoms, tiny red dots on my torso and limbs), Babesia, (shortness of breath, retching/vomiting symptoms) and Lymes Borrelia Burgdorferi (stomach pain, bowell issues, joint and muscle pain, headaches, sleep issues, nerve pain /radiating, RA, neck cracking)

  I met a girl, 20, who at 13 got the classic bullseye rash, got 4 weeks CDC ok'ed treatment w/ ABX, told she was cured.  She's now 19, Rhuematiod Arthritis, muscle pain, constant headaches, eye pain, Hysterectomy, The 4 week course wasnt long enough and now she is in great pain.  The CDC says chronic Lyme does not exist.  I offer her as proof since I told her to get IGENEX tests for Lyme.  She was POS for it .  

  It is my belief that ALOT of the AI diseases we are seeing currently are in actuallity Lyme disease since the vector is not only ticks (as the CDC emphatically states) but mosquitoes, biting flies, fleas, and possibly sexually transmitted as well.

[danie17075rm]

Wow that is interesting.  Not to hijack the thread (Chris,I have had all of your symptoms with hashi's), but I am wondering about the things said.

Ewford, when I was a child I had a suspected tick bite after a camping trip.  I had a big round bite with a little black thing in the middle.  For some reason no one ever knew for sure, but they did run the lyme disease testing.  The reason was I developed horrible back pain and flu like symptoms.  I often had neck pain.  In my teens I developed reynauds disease.  In my 20's I had various problem crop up, until now I have horrible thyroid problems (hashi's- I go both hypo and hyper) and just developed a new suspected autoimmune disease, oral lichen planus.  Are you saying the previous lab test for lymes as a child could have been wrong?

[ewford]

PS...they also have found that once the bacteria is in a human body, it can be found in all body fluids. (yes ALL).  It can pass the placental barrier, be in mothers milk, and they have found it in semen and vaginal fluids.  It is truly a scary bacteria(s)and it is more widespread than I think the Goverment wants us to believe.  If you look at the AI, STD, and undiagnosed medhelp pages you will run across posts that got all these symptoms after having sex or oral relations.  (im sorry, don't mean to be rude).  Also infectious mycoplasmas have been implicated as well as Lyme, sometimes they are a coinfection.  Research MYCOPLASMA bacteria at www.IMMED.org.  Dr Garth Nicolson, who is a Medhelp expert, started IMMED (Institute for Molecular Medicine)

[ewford]

Gimel, the ELISA is quite worthless and the Western Blot is not much better since the bacteria dissables your immune system and causes you to not show antibodies or any significance.  There is a HUGE debate among sufferers and the CDC, whereas the CDC set up guidelines (for diagnostic tracking purposes only) that doctors have been using/adhering to for 20yrs.  The labcorp/Quest Lyme test looks for only ONE borrelia, but there are over 200 in the US alone.  There has been a Autoimmunity EXPLOSION of cases after the Gulf War and many soldiers are suffering the exact same symptoms as Lymes/ GWI, CFS, Fibro, MS, Lupus, etc.  The doctors don't really know about specialty labs where they ONLY do lyme testing for it in its many forms (pleomorphic=shape shifter).  Most of the doctors on the CDC panel that set the guidelines have conflicts of interest in Pharma companies or are receiving money from insurance companies.

  Notice how Fibro suddenly became very big.   Researchers around the world have found that Lymes also has coinfections that come along as "baggage" such as bartonella, Babesia, Ehrlichia, Rickesettia.  They have also found the bacteria in biting flies, fleas, other insects, some mosquitoes CONTRARY to what the CDC has you believe.  The CDC states Lymes is very hard to catch, and easy to treat.  They are wrong on both accounts.  But the Pharma companies are raking in HUGE profits because of the drugs for "other" AI illnesses.  ie CYMBALTA

  IGENEX labs has some of the best testing.  It has passed every stringent test that the FDA has thrown at it.  it not only tests for Borrelia Burgdeferi, but also the coinfections.

  I have had NUMEROUS people tell me that they were missdiagnosed as MS, Lupus, Fibro, hashimotos, Sjorgrens,etc and had proper Lymes testing done and were positive for Lymes all along.  The doctors really have no idea about Lymes so they overlook it or dissmiss it or call you crazy.

  let me know if you would like any more info.   There are some videos of a documentary about Lymes called "Under Our Skin" on Youtube.  You will find out Lymes is a political disease where patients are led to suffer because of the CDC board members cashing in on monies they receive from the Pharma companies.  it is a disgrace.

[gimel]

What is the best way to test for Lyme Disease?

After reading about the disease, I think I may stay indoors permanently, without any pets.    LOL

Thanks for the info.

[ewford]

Gimel, that's quite alright.  Hashimotos and almost all AI diseases have no known etiology, meaning Dr's are not sure what causes it.  Recently, a Lyme researcher took cadaver brain samples from the Yale cadaver bank.  Theses specimens belonged to ALS, MS, Lupus, Hashimotos, Sjorgrens, Dementia, Alzheimers patients.  Using a known  Borrelia Burgdorferi sample he compared brain tissues and there was the Lyme Borrelia in 85% of the samples.  The Lyme spirochete is just like Syphillis, it can be a "corkscrew" where it burrows deep into tissues, invading every body part, going everywhere.  Or it can be Cystic or Mycoplasmal/ Cell Wall Defecient.  Of the over 230+ Lyme pos patients I have interviewed, a majority of them had thyroids removed/ thyroid problems among many other medical problems/complaints.  Lyme cannot be discounted when muscle twitching, cold sensations, brain "fog", bowell and stomach issues, muscle pain, joint pain, stiff neck, headaches, etc.  Sorry, just trying to help from my research of talking to hundreds of people w/ same symptoms.

[gimel]

Not trying to be argumentative, but I am curious as to why you seem to be focused on the possibility of Lyme Disease, and discounting a previously verified condition of Hashi's.  Chris mentioned that she was found to have high thyroid antibodies years ago.  After several years of Hashi's, the thyroid function would clearly have been affected.  Even if the thyroid test results are within the so-called "normal" limits, that may not be adequate for her to be free of hypo symptoms.  

If I recall correctly, there is the distinct possibly that all her many symptoms can be related to being hypo and having low levels of some vitamins and minerals that she needs to be tested for.   Please clarify what symptoms you saw as uniquely pointing toward Lyme Disease.  For the future, that can help members avoid overlooking Lyme, since it doesn't come up too often, and we know how serious it can be.

[ewford]

Muscle twitching is low Magnesium in Lymes.  You will also low Vitamin D as well.  Do NOT discount Lymes and the Labcorp /Quest tests are pathetic missing 90% of actual cases.  This dissables your immune system by attacking your glands in your neck first.  Notice if neck glands are swollen, tender.

[gimel]

Your symptoms can definitely be a result of the effect Hashi's is having on your thyroid glands.  As Hashi's progresses, it gradually destroys the ability of the glands to produce thyroid hormone.  The fact that your thyroid test results fell within the ranges did not mean that all is okay for you.  The ranges are so broad that many members report that symptom relief for them required that FT3 was adjusted into the upper part of its range and fT4 adjusted to around the midpoint of its range.  

With Hashi's, some doctors like to start the patient on meds fairly early to help prevent some of the worst of hypo symptoms.   Many other doctors wait until the patient has overt symptoms.   This link is to a good article on this subject.  

At this point I think you need to be tested for the biologically active thyroid hormones, Free T3 and Free T4 (not the same as Total T3 and Total T4), along with TSH.  Also would be good to test for Vitamin A, D, B12, iron/ferritin, zinc, magnesium, and selenium.  Many hypo patients are low in those areas.  

You may also need to start looking for a good thyroid doctor that will treat you clinically by testing and adjusting FT3 and FT4 as necessary to relieve symptoms, without being constrained by resultant TSH levels.  Symptom relief must be all important to you, not just test results.  If you will tell us your location, perhaps a member may be able to recommend a good thyroid doctor for you.

[ewford]

Possible Lyme disease, especially if mom or dad has symptoms.  MS, LUPUS, Fibro, ALS, and others have no known etiology, but Lymes is known bacterial intracellular chronic infection if not treated early and properly.  other symptoms?