Aa
Coffee proven to be a liver protector
A study has shown drinking 3 cups of coffee a day can protect the liver from damage. In this studyof hepatitis c subjects, people drank 1 2 or 3 or more cups of coffee a day. Those who drank 3 or more cups also drank more alcohol and smoked more cigarettes than the other groups. The results were the group drinkig the most coffee had the least liver damage despite smoking and drinking the most. It's very promising.
www.hepatitis-central.com/my/archives/2008/11/coffee_drinkers.html
www.hepatitis-central.com/my/archives/2008/11/coffee_drinkers.html
Well I don't drink now haven't since I was dx and didn't drink much before that
but since in some studies I read more worried about getting my insulin resistance down at this point coffee is not good for insulin resistance which I need to get in check
another topic
adiposis dolorosa and HCV read a few articles on this as well seems that adiposis dolorosa is coexisting with Insulin Resistance
Just wondering if you have read any studies on this
jimjim WebHelp article about the benefits of coffee I have read too other articles of the benefits of drinking coffee
I feel like a yo yo now love coffee but more worried about Insulin Resistance and taking care of that issue before I tx so I will drink decaf
I am looking for a Fibroscan and emailed UCLA medical Center hope to hear back
just do not want to do a bx terribly afraid
thanks for your continued caring and explainations I did not obviouisly get the HALT study
baja
but since in some studies I read more worried about getting my insulin resistance down at this point coffee is not good for insulin resistance which I need to get in check
another topic
adiposis dolorosa and HCV read a few articles on this as well seems that adiposis dolorosa is coexisting with Insulin Resistance
Just wondering if you have read any studies on this
jimjim WebHelp article about the benefits of coffee I have read too other articles of the benefits of drinking coffee
I feel like a yo yo now love coffee but more worried about Insulin Resistance and taking care of that issue before I tx so I will drink decaf
I am looking for a Fibroscan and emailed UCLA medical Center hope to hear back
just do not want to do a bx terribly afraid
thanks for your continued caring and explainations I did not obviouisly get the HALT study
baja
To give you a little background....
The data came from patients who were enrolled in a study that lasted 3.5 years. All the patients had failed Hep C treatment previously. Half the patients got 90mcg of Peg, which is half the usual dose (no Ribavirin) and the other half got nothing.
They wanted to see whether giving people a lower dose of Peg long-term would slow down the liver damage.
And the study failed. The rate of fibrosis progression was the same for both groups.
But now they're saying that some had less fibrosis progression and that it was due to coffee. So how can that be if they all did the same?
"Do you think since I have smoked most of my life and drank coffee and alcohol like many people that the coffee could have slowed my liver progression"
_______________
There have been some studies that showed that coffee cut down the bad effects from alcohol. But they were done on people who didn't have Hepatitis C.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13281392/
Did it slow your damage progression? I don't know. But you've never had a liver biopsy done and sometimes the Fibrotest may not be completely acurate.
Please don't think that because of what the study said it's okay to drink alcohol as long as you drink coffee. The study is not conclusive. They never even asked people what type of coffee they drank, whether it was decaffeinated or real coffee.
"Has there been many studies of liver progression pre tx for people who have had Hep C
for many years with some having much more progression than others and why some progress faster"
According to the NIH (National Institutes of Health), after infection with Hep C for 20 years, about 20% of patients develop cirrhosis. After 30 years, about 30% develop cirrhosis....after 40 years, about 40% have cirrhosis....on and on.
http://www.hepatitisdoctor.com/cirrhosis.htm
There are many things that can make liver damage progress faster...like alcohol (doubles the rate of progression), being co-infected with HIV or Hep B, exposure to toxins, drug use ....and many more.
Co
The data came from patients who were enrolled in a study that lasted 3.5 years. All the patients had failed Hep C treatment previously. Half the patients got 90mcg of Peg, which is half the usual dose (no Ribavirin) and the other half got nothing.
They wanted to see whether giving people a lower dose of Peg long-term would slow down the liver damage.
And the study failed. The rate of fibrosis progression was the same for both groups.
But now they're saying that some had less fibrosis progression and that it was due to coffee. So how can that be if they all did the same?
"Do you think since I have smoked most of my life and drank coffee and alcohol like many people that the coffee could have slowed my liver progression"
_______________
There have been some studies that showed that coffee cut down the bad effects from alcohol. But they were done on people who didn't have Hepatitis C.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13281392/
Did it slow your damage progression? I don't know. But you've never had a liver biopsy done and sometimes the Fibrotest may not be completely acurate.
Please don't think that because of what the study said it's okay to drink alcohol as long as you drink coffee. The study is not conclusive. They never even asked people what type of coffee they drank, whether it was decaffeinated or real coffee.
"Has there been many studies of liver progression pre tx for people who have had Hep C
for many years with some having much more progression than others and why some progress faster"
According to the NIH (National Institutes of Health), after infection with Hep C for 20 years, about 20% of patients develop cirrhosis. After 30 years, about 30% develop cirrhosis....after 40 years, about 40% have cirrhosis....on and on.
http://www.hepatitisdoctor.com/cirrhosis.htm
There are many things that can make liver damage progress faster...like alcohol (doubles the rate of progression), being co-infected with HIV or Hep B, exposure to toxins, drug use ....and many more.
Co
CO: The rate of disease progression was the same for the treatment group and the control group.
So how can they now say that some had "slower fibrosis progression"? If they had, then the trial wouldn't have failed.
-----------------------
Because the tx group and control group were chosen independently of coffee consumption, i.e. most probably coffee drinkers in both groups and therefore both groups progressed on average about the same.
So how can they now say that some had "slower fibrosis progression"? If they had, then the trial wouldn't have failed.
-----------------------
Because the tx group and control group were chosen independently of coffee consumption, i.e. most probably coffee drinkers in both groups and therefore both groups progressed on average about the same.
Well, Okee Dokee, but I still think you should have stuck to your observational study argument :)
--------------------------------------------------
I'll bow out with this synopsis from WebMD which goes beyond the studies showing liver protection.
"Coffee, the much maligned but undoubtedly beloved beverage, just made headlines for possibly cutting the risk of the latest disease epidemic, type 2 diabetes. And the real news seems to be that the more you drink, the better."
"Overall, the research shows that coffee is far more healthful than it is harmful," says Tomas DePaulis, PhD, research scientist at Vanderbilt University's Institute for Coffee Studies, which conducts its own medical research and tracks coffee studies from around the world. "For most people, very little bad comes from drinking it, but a lot of good."
Consider this: At least six studies indicate that people who drink coffee on a regular basis are up to 80% less likely to develop Parkinson's, with three showing the more they drink, the lower the risk. Other research shows that compared to not drinking coffee, at least two cups daily can translate to a 25% reduced risk of colon cancer, an 80% drop in liver cirrhosis risk, and nearly half the risk of gallstones.
http://men.webmd.com/features/coffee-new-health-food
And, then, of course the studies suggesting coffee cah help delay Alzheimer's...
--------------------------------------------------
I'll bow out with this synopsis from WebMD which goes beyond the studies showing liver protection.
"Coffee, the much maligned but undoubtedly beloved beverage, just made headlines for possibly cutting the risk of the latest disease epidemic, type 2 diabetes. And the real news seems to be that the more you drink, the better."
"Overall, the research shows that coffee is far more healthful than it is harmful," says Tomas DePaulis, PhD, research scientist at Vanderbilt University's Institute for Coffee Studies, which conducts its own medical research and tracks coffee studies from around the world. "For most people, very little bad comes from drinking it, but a lot of good."
Consider this: At least six studies indicate that people who drink coffee on a regular basis are up to 80% less likely to develop Parkinson's, with three showing the more they drink, the lower the risk. Other research shows that compared to not drinking coffee, at least two cups daily can translate to a 25% reduced risk of colon cancer, an 80% drop in liver cirrhosis risk, and nearly half the risk of gallstones.
http://men.webmd.com/features/coffee-new-health-food
And, then, of course the studies suggesting coffee cah help delay Alzheimer's...
You know what I'm thinking?
The data comes from the patients in the HALT-C trial.....which showed that "Long-term maintenance therapy with peginterferon failed to halt liver disease progression"
The rate of disease progression was the same for the treatment group and the control group.
So how can they now say that some had "slower fibrosis progression"? If they had, then the trial wouldn't have failed.
Co
Do you think since I have smoked most of my life and drank coffee and alcohol like many people that
the coffee could have slowed my liver progression very heavy coffee drinker for quite a while maybe 6 to 8 cups a day maybe 35 years then cut down to about 3 now.
Has there been many studies of liver progression pre tx for people who have had Hep C
for many years with some having much more progression than others and why some progress faster
the coffee could have slowed my liver progression very heavy coffee drinker for quite a while maybe 6 to 8 cups a day maybe 35 years then cut down to about 3 now.
Has there been many studies of liver progression pre tx for people who have had Hep C
for many years with some having much more progression than others and why some progress faster
"let's assume cigarette smoking does clear caffeine faster "
__________________
Not my words. I sort of cheated and copied it from an article on caffeine toxicity, which says.......
"Caffeine is primarily metabolized by the cytochrome P450 (CYP) oxidase system in the liver. The plasma half-life of caffeine varies considerably from person to person, with an average half-life of 5-8 hours in healthy, nonsmoking adults. Caffeine clearance is accelerated in smokers"
and......
"(Dilantin) and cigarette smoking increase the hepatic metabolism of caffeine, resulting in increased elimination and decreased plasma caffeine concentrations"
http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/byname/Toxicity--Caffeine.htm
"Maybe you had better define "beneift".The benefit I'm talking about is what the study in question stated -- coffee's benefit is slower fibrosis progression. Is that the benefit you're talking about?"
___________________________________
Yes. I meant that the higher consumtion group "were less likely to have liver disease progression"......
maybe because they cleared the caffeine faster than the ones that drank less.
Mind you, that's just my opinion and I could be totally wrong. It's just that caffeine has so many negatives and it inhibits the hepatic metabolism of many drugs (which elevates their levels) that it's hard for me to believe that it slows fibrosis progression.
I guess we'll have to wait and see.
Co
* Although patients with hepatitis C virus infection who drank the most coffee (3 or more cups daily) also consumed the most alcohol and cigarettes, they had slower progression of fibrotic liver disease. Hazard ratio for progression of liver disease was 1.21 for no coffee daily to 0.53 for 3 or more cups daily (95% confidence intervals; P = .0005).
* Those who consumed 3 or more cups of coffee daily had less evidence of liver damage than did other participants with hepatitis C virus infection, with less steatosis on biopsy, and significantly lower bilirubin levels, α-fetoprotein levels, and aspartate aminotransferase/alanine aminotransferase ratios.
In the summary of the study it is not conclusive in anyway as there are too many variables and they do not know if caffeine is the factor or not but the way I read it is the people in the study all had Hep C and these studies were for progression of the disease pre diagnosis when the patients smoked drank and consumed coffee When I first read it I was Oh Boy I have had Hep C 45 years lucky I am a big coffee drinker Always drank it strong and black I began drinking coffee around the same year I got Hep C but in the past 5 years I began drinking it with sugar and milk but prefer cream now since finding out I am IR it is the only sugar sugar I am taking in with exception of some in the very little fruit and breads I eat
but over all in is not a conclusive study but since I only have below stage one fibrosis and did drink and did drink alcohol hmmm who knows ??? I seem to be one of the people here with Hep C for a longer period of time and do not have much damage to my liver but I do have many other problems that either could be attributed to Hep C or lifestyle however coffee could have played a part in the lesser damage to my liver than most here who have had Hep C for a shorter period of time???
* Those who consumed 3 or more cups of coffee daily had less evidence of liver damage than did other participants with hepatitis C virus infection, with less steatosis on biopsy, and significantly lower bilirubin levels, α-fetoprotein levels, and aspartate aminotransferase/alanine aminotransferase ratios.
In the summary of the study it is not conclusive in anyway as there are too many variables and they do not know if caffeine is the factor or not but the way I read it is the people in the study all had Hep C and these studies were for progression of the disease pre diagnosis when the patients smoked drank and consumed coffee When I first read it I was Oh Boy I have had Hep C 45 years lucky I am a big coffee drinker Always drank it strong and black I began drinking coffee around the same year I got Hep C but in the past 5 years I began drinking it with sugar and milk but prefer cream now since finding out I am IR it is the only sugar sugar I am taking in with exception of some in the very little fruit and breads I eat
but over all in is not a conclusive study but since I only have below stage one fibrosis and did drink and did drink alcohol hmmm who knows ??? I seem to be one of the people here with Hep C for a longer period of time and do not have much damage to my liver but I do have many other problems that either could be attributed to Hep C or lifestyle however coffee could have played a part in the lesser damage to my liver than most here who have had Hep C for a shorter period of time???
Regarding cocoa... you might want to try raw cocoa instead of roasted cocoa. You might be able to get it in a health food store, if not on the net. It also tastes better. You can also read up on the difference between raw and roasted cocoa beans.
Our last posts crossed. Maybe you had better define "beneift".The benefit I'm talking about is what the study in question stated -- coffee's benefit is slower fibrosis progression. Is that the benefit you're talking about?
CO: I actually didn't suggest anything. You asked me where I thought the benefit came from and I answered.
------------
Sounds like you're doing an end run here. The discussion is about whether coffee drinking is liver protective in the given cohort studied and not whether cigarette smoking clears caffeine faster.
But once again, let's assume cigarette smoking does clear caffeine faster -- so what is your point again in respect to the study? Again, even if cigarettes negated the negative effects of the caffeine we still have a cohort with slower fibrosis progression.
------------
Sounds like you're doing an end run here. The discussion is about whether coffee drinking is liver protective in the given cohort studied and not whether cigarette smoking clears caffeine faster.
But once again, let's assume cigarette smoking does clear caffeine faster -- so what is your point again in respect to the study? Again, even if cigarettes negated the negative effects of the caffeine we still have a cohort with slower fibrosis progression.
I'd like to add something else.....I said......
If let's say....one group drinks 5 cups of coffee daily and they smoke vs a second group that drinks only 3 cups a day and don't smoke.
The first group will clear the caffeine faster than the second group. So when they show a benefit, it may actually be from not having any caffeine in their system for very long.
While the other group still has the 3 cups in theirs. Therefore, the first group may show a benefit compared to the second group.
"I hope you're not suggesting that you're better smoking cigarettes with coffee if you want slower fibrotic progression."
I actually didn't suggest anything. You asked me where I thought the benefit came from and I answered.
But to be clear, let me simplify what I said.......caffeine clearance is accelerated in smokers.
If let's say....one group drinks 5 cups of coffee daily and they smoke vs a second group that drinks only 3 cups a day and don't smoke.
The first group will clear the caffeine faster than the second group. So when they show a benefit, it may actually be from not having any caffeine in their system for very long.
Does that mean I recommend smoking so they can clear the caffeine faster? Hell no! LOL
Cigarette smoking can result in an increase of as much as threefold in CYP1A2 activity (and hyperinsulinemia increases it too).......And Interferon is a CYP1A2 inhibitor.
No way would I suggest smoking.....with or without coffee.....LOL
Co
I actually didn't suggest anything. You asked me where I thought the benefit came from and I answered.
But to be clear, let me simplify what I said.......caffeine clearance is accelerated in smokers.
If let's say....one group drinks 5 cups of coffee daily and they smoke vs a second group that drinks only 3 cups a day and don't smoke.
The first group will clear the caffeine faster than the second group. So when they show a benefit, it may actually be from not having any caffeine in their system for very long.
Does that mean I recommend smoking so they can clear the caffeine faster? Hell no! LOL
Cigarette smoking can result in an increase of as much as threefold in CYP1A2 activity (and hyperinsulinemia increases it too).......And Interferon is a CYP1A2 inhibitor.
No way would I suggest smoking.....with or without coffee.....LOL
Co
BTW I'm not suggesting that the medical or nutritional community is unified as a whole that one should drink coffee. As has been stated, it's a controversial subject with advocates on both ends. And at the end of the day it may not be black and white with some benefits and some risks -- like so many things. All I and others are saying is that there have been what appear to be some credible studies suggesting coffee drinking may be liver protective in terms of fibrosis progresion and I think they deserve consideration until shown to be wrong.
CO: So in my opinion, the study didn't show benefit for coffee. The people who drank more coffee, cleared it quicker because they smoked more
-----------------------------
I hope you're not suggesting that you're better smoking cigarettes with coffee if you want slower fibrotic progression. Actually tobacco studies show the opposite, i.e. cigarettes accelerate fibrosis. I think the point was that the coffee drinkers had less fibrotic progression IN SPITE OF the fact they smoke or consumed some alcohol but not because of it. But for discussion's sake, let's assume that tobacco negates what you would term the "bad" effects of coffee. So how come the coffee group still has less fibrotic progression? Certainly not because they drink, so that just leaves the cigarettes again. Frankly, you should have stuck to your original argument that the study may have flaws due to it's retrospective nature but this new argument just doesn't make sense.
-- Jim
-----------------------------
I hope you're not suggesting that you're better smoking cigarettes with coffee if you want slower fibrotic progression. Actually tobacco studies show the opposite, i.e. cigarettes accelerate fibrosis. I think the point was that the coffee drinkers had less fibrotic progression IN SPITE OF the fact they smoke or consumed some alcohol but not because of it. But for discussion's sake, let's assume that tobacco negates what you would term the "bad" effects of coffee. So how come the coffee group still has less fibrotic progression? Certainly not because they drink, so that just leaves the cigarettes again. Frankly, you should have stuck to your original argument that the study may have flaws due to it's retrospective nature but this new argument just doesn't make sense.
-- Jim
Okay, I'll tell you why.
Because caffeine clearance is accelerated in smokers....and the people who drank the most coffee also smoked more.
And because phenolic compounds in coffee can bind nonheme iron and inhibit its intestinal absorption. Drinking 150-250 ml of coffee with a test meal has been found to inhibit the absorption of iron by 24-73%.
So in my opinion, the study didn't show benefit for coffee. The people who drank more coffee, cleared it quicker because they smoked more
And caffeine also increases CYP1A2 and CYP3A.
Sources:
http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/byname/Toxicity--Caffeine.htm
http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/foods/coffee/index.html
http://www.docguide.com/dg.nsf/PrintPrint/9B074414B983A0438525648B0073EA2B
MB: My question becomes how does this study jive with those showing 10 times the rate of fibrosis with continual alcohol use
----------
You've stated this before. Please state the study that shows alcohol use increases fibrosis progression ten times.
Actually, only heavy drinking appears to increase fibrosis progression. Not light/moderate.
http://www.natap.org/2004/HCV/040104_02.htm
----------
You've stated this before. Please state the study that shows alcohol use increases fibrosis progression ten times.
Actually, only heavy drinking appears to increase fibrosis progression. Not light/moderate.
http://www.natap.org/2004/HCV/040104_02.htm
have a line or two on me with that......and pass the bacon!!!!!!!! rolleyes.
all I know is the alkyloids in coffee are kissing cousins to those in cocoa AND cocaine.
they may be working on the chemistry in some beneficial ways, but the way they strip out essential minerals, and lower seretonin, and interfere with stage 3 and 4 rest are all contraindictors. One might as well say drink some crosote it's antimicrobial....yeah but its creosote...poison.
not surprised that the alcoholic smokers are all happily gulping their java...after all...their stress level staying loaded may have more to do with their fibrosis than thier coffee.
My question becomes how does this study jive with those showing 10 times the rate of fibrosis with continual alcohol use. Something is rotten in Denmark..in any case there's no reason to even publish such nonsense in my opinion.
First due the in vivo and in vitro studies of each alkaloid, and then maybe we'd have something. But if one or two alkaloids are benficial, and the other 70 are harming our health in many ways, why would that be a good solution.
We need to find anti=fibrotics without the downside, and take our Q's and advice from those not hell bent on destroying what health they have left.
COwriter, thanks for being the voice of reason..
all I know is the alkyloids in coffee are kissing cousins to those in cocoa AND cocaine.
they may be working on the chemistry in some beneficial ways, but the way they strip out essential minerals, and lower seretonin, and interfere with stage 3 and 4 rest are all contraindictors. One might as well say drink some crosote it's antimicrobial....yeah but its creosote...poison.
not surprised that the alcoholic smokers are all happily gulping their java...after all...their stress level staying loaded may have more to do with their fibrosis than thier coffee.
My question becomes how does this study jive with those showing 10 times the rate of fibrosis with continual alcohol use. Something is rotten in Denmark..in any case there's no reason to even publish such nonsense in my opinion.
First due the in vivo and in vitro studies of each alkaloid, and then maybe we'd have something. But if one or two alkaloids are benficial, and the other 70 are harming our health in many ways, why would that be a good solution.
We need to find anti=fibrotics without the downside, and take our Q's and advice from those not hell bent on destroying what health they have left.
COwriter, thanks for being the voice of reason..
"Those who drank the most coffee also consumed the most ALCOHOL and cigarettes."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've started drinking booze again and smoking a pack a day based on this new scientific information.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've started drinking booze again and smoking a pack a day based on this new scientific information.
CocoPure sounds good. I have given up so many of my "bad" habits, and I know they were bad, coffee doesnt sound so bad to me, chocolate doesn't sound so bad to me. I drink organic, fair trade coffee..
I'm happy that some of my old habits coffee, choc. may be good for me. Life is short, My biggest vice right now is reacting uncontrollably to whats in front of me.
I'm happy that some of my old habits coffee, choc. may be good for me. Life is short, My biggest vice right now is reacting uncontrollably to whats in front of me.
It actually sounds very good. I tried pure coco (for the antioxidants) right after tx but my GERD acted up. Now that I'm pretty reflux free, I may try it again. Just don't mention this to "Co-Writer" because I didn't see any Metafornin in the formulation.
-- Jim
-- Jim
I drink coffee. But, I've also started, just recently drinking a thing called CocoPure. I know that some will say that it's a scam. But, it has no sugar in it, it's has Resveratol in it, it has mega amounts of green tea in it and pure cocoa..., so it actually tastes like you're drinking hot chocolate, w/o the dairy and personally, I like the taste better than normal green tea. Anyhow, it's loaded with antioxidants in it..., so I figure since I am not able to do treatments, I might as well enjoy drinking some tasty green tea and get my chocolate fix at the same time!
Susan400
Susan400
"Please don't take this wrong, No disrespect meant to either Jim or Co.
I feel blessed to have been able to learn so much from both of you."
_________________________
No problem. I know you're joking....you couldn't possibly be serious about having a bunch of fat, right?
LOL
"Co is just excited like we all should be from the new studies showing great benefit from fixing IR before TX, for much better SVR rates.
Think what really gets her going, is when you say to diet and exercise to fix IR and then talk about the breaky of hepper champions...LMAO,
_____________________________
Oh, Jim knows exactly what gets me going. He teases me about my strong opinions on IR. He says disagreeing with me about IR is like touching the holy grail without an invitation....LOL
I think he does it on purpose when his tennis elbow is not acting up and he wants to make a thread more interesting....LOL
BTW, this is the link to a study done to see what improved Insulin Resistance more.... Avandia + diet/exercise vs diet/exercise alone. Guess which group did better....
http://www.hcvadvocate.org/news/reports/AASLD_2008/Abstracts/Preclinical_and_clinical_trials_POSTERS%20TUESDAY%20Nov%204.htm#Tues1870
Am I excited? You bet!
Co
Have an Answer?
You are reading content posted in the Hepatitis C Community
Learn about this treatable virus.
Getting tested for this viral infection.
3 key steps to getting on treatment.
4 steps to getting on therapy.
What you need to know about Hep C drugs.
How the drugs might affect you.
These tips may up your chances of a cure.
A list of national and international resources and hotlines to help connect you to needed health and medical services.
Herpes sores blister, then burst, scab and heal.
Herpes spreads by oral, vaginal and anal sex.
STIs are the most common cause of genital sores.
Condoms are the most effective way to prevent HIV and STDs.
PrEP is used by people with high risk to prevent HIV infection.
