Symptoms of Heroin Use

[CASEY]

I need help knowing what I am looking at. My son uses heroin. His behavior faciliates between bouts of crying, feeling abandonded, hopeless, depressed and periods of apparent well-being where he is calm, psychologically present, reasonable. He attributes his despair to clinical depression which he has. I am sure the drugs are contributing. I am not sure if the periods of calm are immediatley following injection and the despair is withdrawal or coming down. When I confront him, I want to know what I am talking about. I support his recovery 100% but don't know how to bring it about. thanks, Casey

[Airedog]

First and foremost I feel you have to accept that you can not bring about another person's recovery. Unless they truly want to get clean they will continue using. Loved ones need to learn that they did not cause the addict's behaviour, they cannot control the addict's behaviour, nor, can they cure the disease. If there is are NarAnon or AlAnon meetings in your area you may find them helpful.

Dave

[Vicodin Gurrl to Dan]

Sorry to interrupt the new thread but I just have a quick question that I'm hoping someone might be able to help me answer?  I have been addicted to hydrocodone 5/500 for about the past 1 1/2 years.  I was taking anywhere from 6-14 pills per day.  I am now taking a longer acting morphine pill two times a day, prescribed by my doctor. Since I went off the hydro/apap 6 days ago I have been SICK!  Not withdrawl-type sick I dont think, since I am TAKING the morphine which is actually stronger than the vico's anyway. I have been having DAILY HIGH fevers (100-101.5), and no desire to eat and just feeling REALLY crappy.  My Dr. said it was the flu, and it FEELS like the flu to me, but I was thinking that maybe the abrupt withdrawl of ALL that DAILY tylenol is causing my body's heat sensors or whatever to be all out of whack?  Has anyone ever heard of this before?  I have just never known of a SIX DAY flu with fevers every single day, have you?  Thanks and have a nice day!

[Ummm...about the flu]

...14 vicodin a day huh...? You see - 14 Vicodin a day - narcotic wise may be well above the amount of Morphine you're taking each day. You didn't mention the strength of Morphine you're on so I can't tell you for sure...If you're doctor knew the amount of narcotics in your system - he would have upped your Morphine intake (actually - he would have probably cut you off of all narcotics if he knew you were abusing.) My advice? Take 3-4 Vicodin and see if your "flu" gets better. If it doesn't, you may very well have a virus that's hanging on. The tylenol will not cause withdrawal symptoms...only liver damage. So disregard that...unless of course you have abdominal pain along with your fevers etc...then I'd get that checked. But back to my original point...Say 14 Vicodin equal the equivalent of say 75 mgs. of Morphine. (just guessing here) Now your doctor puts you on MS 15 mgs 2x daily. Your body is now missing roughly 60 mgs. of Morphine - you'll have withdrawals. Hence the vicious circle of opiates. It's all morphine really in the end anyway...body wise...chemically. I don't know...I'm no chemist but I am an addict so that actually counts for quite a bit more here...Now if I was a chemist/addict, I'd have even more answers! Anyway. Later.

[oops]

Actually...your body would be missing 45 mgs. of morphine not 60...now I know why I'm not a chemist.

[CASEY]

I know I am not responsible for his addiction but I need to know if I am looking at addiction or depression. When one is high, are they calm and reasonable or irritable, paranoid and despairing? Is this drug use or clinical depression? This person is suicidal so I can't just let him hit bottom, especially if it is a mental health issue rather than addiction. Please, if you have been on or seen someone one heroin. What does it look like? Casey

[cindi]

Hi Casey,  I can hear the desperation in your post.  I am no expert on Heroin, My addiction was to massive doses of opiates.  Demerol, Morphine etc.  I do know that an opiate is an opiate and this is from MY experience.  When I was under the influence if any opiate no matter what it was I was upbeat etc. just as you described.  During my "withdrawals" I was depressed, near suicidal etc.  again, as you described.  I believe this to be true with anything ranging from Herion to Vicodin. He really needs the help of a professional but as someone mentioned earlier, you cannot do this for him.  He must do it when he is ready.  Sick and tired if being sick and tired.  When I was addicted to whatever, toward the end of my use I had no choice but to use in order to feel "normal" so i would not be sick.  I was confronted several times,  absolutely useless until I was ready which was several months after I entered (involuntarily) into treatment.   Please think about Al-anon or Nar-anon.  May God be with you and your son.    Safire

[from me to Skorchee]

Here is your answer - yes - a person who has just shot heroin is very serene and feeling well - NO pain...may even nod off to "sleep" in mid-sentence. If you are an addict, you will NEED to shoot every several hours...24 hours after your last shot, you will JONES hard and rip a person's head off for a fix. It's Manic Depression in a syringe really. It's not your son's ONLY problem...but it's definitely happening and one of them. People on heroin don't rob banks and/or liquor stores...it's the people that have RUN OUT of heroin that do that. Life's a ***** and so are opiates. But she sure is enticing. - Chachi

[cindi]

To casey,  Hi,  I have to butt in with Gina and Safire.  You say your son has a history of depression.  If he is on other meds then of course you won't know if they are working or not.  When I was using I was calm, normal etc. and when I was coming down I was irritable, mood swings etc.  just as you described.  When I did my stint with crack I was paranoid and panicked when coming down,  You hit the nail right on when you said drugs are a contributing factor to his depression.  I, like safire was confronted but it was useless.  I was sent to treatment only as an option to jail.  Are you open for suggestions?  everyone may agree or disagree I don't care, everyone has a right ti their opinion so here goes...Do your homework and then sit him down and talk to him.  Don't back him into a corner.  Tell him what you know and then let him know how supportive you are of him and you are are afraid for him .  Let him know there are choices he can make and help is one of them.  If he is open to you and wants help that is great but if he is resistant, in his own time he will come around.  You can't make him clean.  Only he can do this when he is ready. This is only my experience and opinin.  Everyone who posts on this forum had had their own experiences and opinions which is what makes it great.  Such a wide variety of everything.  I have learned alot from these people here and we are here to help and offer suggestions and guidance when asked.  Addicts helping addicts is what works for me.  We may not always agree with one another but hey...isn't that what life is?  take care and good luck    cindi

[CASEY]

Cindi, thanks to you and everyone else who has responded. You have made me feel better because my husband and I have been doing exactly what you have suggested. Some people tell me I have to draw hard lines with him and cut him off from all family support to "raise the bottom". I just can't do that and fear he would kill himself. I keep trying to present him with hope, just in case he goes for it. Maybe tonight I can sleep after having your encouragement. Has anyone had any luck with acupuncture and naturopathy for addiction and/or depression? I am researching that as an offering of help. He refuses rehab or counseling. thanks, again.

[Gene to Joanne]

Your son is most likely feeling & acting fine as long as he has his Heroin.  I am happy, energetic, responsible, & productive as long as I keep taking a dose of opiates every 3-4 hours.  If I should run out, then I go crazy, tired, very depressed, anxious, & feeling very sick!

I believe that your approach of supporting you son emotionally is a good one.  You don't want to alienate him right now.  There may come a point when you may have get tough with him.  As everyone here has pointed out, you cannot force your son to get sober.  He has to want it himself.  You can only be there for him & be prepared by having detox & treatment center information available.

It must be very hard to watch your own flesh & blood destroying himself slowly with opiates but I think he will come around & realize that he has to make some serious changes in his life.  If his parents are there to support him mentally, physically & spiritually, then he will have an important edge working in his favor.

Good luck to you & your family!

[CASEY]

Thanks for the reassurance. Yes, watching him bury his true self in chemicals is heartbreaking. I never knew there could be such pain. I am armed with  resources and detox. Gee, Sunday is my birthday. Can't imagine a better gift than a breakthrough. Gene, sounds like you have your own plate full. I will include you in my hopeful thoughts. Take care of yourself and thanks for reaching out. Casey

[The Dude]

Hi, My brother was on Heroin.  I noticed when he was using, there would be things missing around the house(i.e. Valubles, Guns, Golf Clubs, Television and on and on and on) he would be gone at wierd times of the day and night.  He would come home and sleep for 20 hours straight, wake up, then leave again. He would have red rings under his eyes, very yellowish looking face.  He would cut off all contact with any family, friends and the real world. He was a very irritable, mean and downright rude.  He would've sold our own mother if he had the chance.  He lied compulsivly and didn't give a damn about anything or anybody except himself.  He wouldn't tell you anything or talk to anybody unless he was cursing them out.  He would tell you to go get f$%edif you asked him if he was hungry!!  Please listen to me.  If you can get him to a lockdown treatment facility that has a solitary confinement, you would be in a much better situation.  But the facility has to have methadone or something to level out his endorphins.  Please DO ANYTHING YOU CAN, THIS IS A DISEASE!!! You wouldn't let somebody that has the flu, just lay in bed and ignore them would you? NO you would wait on them hand and foot and get them anything they needed to get better right?  I found my brother with no heartbeat and not breathing, on our bathroom floor one night.  He was blue, sweating, and had a belt around his arm with a needle on the sink.  I had to resesitate him.  I walked him around in -10 degree weather.  I smacked him on his face, gave him CPR and he finally came back to life.  I was petrified, here was my little brother lying on the bathroom floor DEAD!! Think about that, he finally recovered from this dreadful, horrible addiction and is living a normal life today.  He is married and awaiting his first child, all within two years!! It can be done, it can be!!!THese other good people are right, the person has to want to help themselves but you hve to go off the deep end to save your son.  God Bless you and I wish you luck.  You sound like all hell is going to brake loose soon, so godspeed
Chad Buckler

[Brighty to ChadB.]

God bless you.... I have been there too. My daughter nearly died seven times of her heroin addiction. She now has 10 months clean and is in school and attends regular recovery meetings. Your advice is from the heart and from the head. Thank you for posting about the pain and also the hope !!! Love, Brighty

[Brighty to Casey]

My 21 year old daughter has a 3 year heroin addiction and is in her 10th month of recovery. ALL the comments you got were true and on target. Depression is ALWAYS a by product of withdrawl, or needing a fix. The depression is a mental health issue and at this point it is not important if it was a pre-existing condition or a side effect of opiate use. Does your son want to quit ?? If he does, then with your support, he needs to commit to detox and then a recovery plan. Check in your area to learn if there are any detox programs using buprenorphine. This may be the most comfortable detox that helps him keep his wits and emotions in control during a very difficult time. Lots of people abandon quitting during withdrawl because the physical and emotional suffering are too hard to bear. Use of some medications are helpful during this time. Cravings go on long after detox. This is where counseling and possible use of antidepressants and non-addictive sleep meds are assistive. Some sort of recovery plan is essential. He needs support of those who know what he is going through and can be there for him..OTHER ADDICTS in recovery...that's what NA is about.... he also needs to learn relapse prevention skills. Heroin is an opiate just as medical narcotics are... but most med addicts do not have the lifestyle of heroin addicts.... there is a whole sub-culture to heroin use that he needs to unlearn and he needs to learn to avoid at all cost. After many trys at helping our daughter get clean I realized that she should have gone for LONG TERM treatment first. After many relapses and suicide attempts it was TIME and counseling that made the difference. She spent nearly 6 months in a mental health/chemical dependency program and she still attends day treatment. Please be aware that heroin is deadly and the sooner your son quits the better chance he has of staying alive and returning to a normal life . I agree that you may have to get tough with him but please do not throw him in the street. Nobody knows what his bottom will be... for my daughter it would have been death which was quickly evident to us. You do not want to be his emotional hostage but his depression could overcome him to utter hopelessness. You do not want to have this happen hoping he will turn the corner. Even if you do not throw him out he needs to understand that he could still die of an overdose. If he does not want to quit it may be fear of withdrawl and this is why you need to check on buprenorphine or something other than "cold turkey". If he still does not want to quit then it's likely that he will eventually get to a point where he finds himself doing the unthinkable to support his habit... possibly jail will be on the list of inevitables.You can only pray that's his wake up call. Keep on intervening... it's a constant reminder of what he has to do and that he's not alone. I was doing this for 3 years ... I was not successful... finally a wise judge made some good decisions and forced my daughter into treatment... she finally surrendered and has her life back. She did not want to go back to jail so she complied but along the way the light went on in her head and her heart.  God bless you and your husband. I will pray for you and your son. There is hope and there is a God. Love, Brighty

[Brighty to Casey]

I do realize that you are very very supportive parents and seem to be doing everything right from the get go. I did the opposite.. I was shocked and went nuts... I think I was more hell to live with than my daughter was for a while there. However I learned a few things along the way. You will need to try different tactics if he does not respond. I remember a girl who was using with my daughter and she lived with her very supportive, polished father. She came home high regularly and he did not lose it... he would sit and talk to her. She had been agreeing to get help but somewhow it never happened. Months went by and he would hear, "Daddy, I'm sorry, I messed up again." One night he flung a dresser on it's side and put his fist through a door,then nailed the windows shut and dragged her into the bedroom and and locked her in. She agreed after 24 hours to go to detox. I think he finally met the demon "heroin" and realized it was a formidable opponent. My point is that your son is refusing many options ( which is typical) so at some point you have to decide perhaps if you are going to let him YES you to  death for too long. She was clean for a couple of months after that but I moved and do not know her long term situation. I pray she is still well. Stay on this board, everyone here wants to help you. God bless you. Brighty

[The Dude]

Brighty it sounds as if you went through hell too.  I'm glad to hear your daughter is healthy again.  Take care and thanks for the response.  God Bless you too.  I know you must do whatever you can to help a loved one.  I would've sold my soul to satan to get my brother off of this ****.
Chad B

[Brighty to ChadB.]

I get your drift... and honestly, that's what Satan wants... he would like to get your brother's soul and would have gladly taken yours and NOT spared your brother in return... it was your faith in God ( whoever He may be to you ) that claimed healing for your brother that night. I know what you mean though. This is a tough illness and so much possibility of a young life being snuffed for nothing but a $10 bag of junk. That's evil at work... all this exists for profit. Love, Brighty

[Brighty to ChadB.]

I get your drift... and honestly, that's what Satan wants... he would like to get your brother's soul and would have gladly taken yours and NOT spared your brother in return... it was your faith in God ( whoever He may be to you ) that claimed healing for your brother that night. I know what you mean though. This is a tough illness and so much possibility of a young life being snuffed for nothing but a $10 bag of junk. That's evil at work... all this exists for profit. Love, Brighty

[Samaria]

If anyone is still out there, I have a question, my boyfriend has a heroin addiction that I just found out about three months ago. He's been dealing with the addiction for about 3 or 4 years now. We've only been together for almost a year, and when I found out about it I gave him a ultimatum that he either goes to rehab and clean up his act, or I'm gone. Shortly after my ultimatum he was arrested for possession of crack (which is what he sold to buy the heroin), he was then put on an intensive probation program in which he had to take a drug test twice a week. Somehow I allowed him to convince me that taking drug test every week was what was going to help him get clean, and I didn't push the rehab ultimatum anymore. After about a good month in a half of being clean one day he just stop going to take the drug tests, but he kept on telling me he wasn't using drugs; he was still clean. My question is this in my heart I know he's using again, but I'm not 100% sure. When he leaves in the morning and comes back home one or two in the morning his mouth is dry, he doesn't have an appetite, he talks excessively, and has trouble sleeping at night. So are these symptoms of heroin use and if not what are the symptoms.

[CATUF]

Doesn't sound like H to me - sounds like coke, meth or some other stimulant.  But, I don't know all that much about H, so I found a good site that lists symptoms (www.noalasdrogas.net/drug_info.htm) and cut and pasted from there.

If he was supposed to be taking drug test in connection with the crack charges and he just quit, my guess is that he's not going to be home much longer anyway.  It's VERY unlikely that he "just quit" Court-ordered tests, but is still staying clean.  If an addict in Recovery engages in highly suspect, irresponsible behavior, 99 times out of 100 they're using again.  And if they're using, you CAN NOT trust them - "dogs bark, fish swim and addicts lie."  Anyway, a bit of that info from that site is below. :

CATUF
DAY-773
=======================

HERION  The short-term effects of heroin abuse appear soon after a single dose and disappear in a few hours.  After an injection of heroin, the user reports feeling a surge of euphoria ("rush") accompanied by a warm flushing of the skin, a dry mouth, and heavy extremities.  Following this initial euphoria, the user goes "on the nod," an alternately wakeful and drowsy state. Mental functioning becomes clouded due to the depression of the central nervous system. Other effects included slowed and slurred speech, slow gait, constricted pupils, droopy eyelids, impaired night vision, vomiting, constipation.

COKE/CRACK   Short-term effects of cocaine include constricted peripheral blood vessels, dilated pupils, increased temperature, heart rate, blood pressure, insomnia, loss of appetite, feelings of restlessness, irritability, and anxiety.  Duration of cocaine's immediate euphoric effects, which include energy, reduced fatigue, and mental clarity, depends on how it is used.  The faster the absorption, the more intense the high.  However, the faster the absorption, the shorter the high lasts.  The high from snorting may last 15 to 30 minutes, while that from smoking may last 5 to 10 minutes. Cocaine's effects are short lived, and once the drug leaves the brain, the user experiences a "coke crash" that includes depression, irritability, and fatigue.

METH  Immediately after smoking or intravenous injection, the methamphetamine user experiences an intense sensation, called a "rush" or "flash," that lasts only a few minutes and is described as extremely pleasurable.  Oral or intranasal use produces euphoria - a high, but not a rush.  Other effects include irritability/aggression, anxiety, nervousness, convulsions, insomnia.

[FLaddict]

The prior post is from 2001.. If you could please post your story as a new question it would be very helpful so everyone can read it and give you advice.. this one being old will get lost quickly..

I used heroin for several years and have been off for a long time but from what you are saying it doesn't sound like he is using heroin at this time... heroin doesn't really make you talk alot or have trouble sleeping.. If you truely believe he is using it may be something else he has moved on to.. Has he ever played with other drugs that you know of??

[beachtowel]

Hi Dave I agree with most of your points except for parents never cause addiction.......
There are some bad parents Dave, and some that really screw up kids even though they might
not even realize what they are doing to the mental health of their own children......
A lot of this is realized as "core issues" and I have heard some really sick stories in rehab.....

I also had some very difficult times with my own father who was really nuts at times......
Don't confuse core issues with excuses there very much different...........

[CATUF]

Dave wrote that in January of 2001.  

He's gone.  

The Airedog is gone.

RIP AIREDOG

[beachtowel]

I still haven't got used to this forum jumping all over I think it is stupid and who evers idea it was I think they have way to much time on their hands.......