Mimi1313 are we getting close ?

[allaboutmary]

So, have we made any progress in changing your mind ?  There's been a lot of good back and forth here.  Posts from Lovepat, Sterling and Savas and many others have only confirmed in my mind that it's Obama all the way !  How about you, do you need more ? Make sure you watch the debate's this Friday night.
Thanks for keeping an open mind !

[lovepat906]

I would agree with you Utah- if it weren't for the last eight years. Eight years ago I could have voted for McCain - I would have preferred him to Bush. BUT McCain has drastically changed his tune over the last eight years. He has gone far right. Now maybe he was sucking up to the right wing of his party- but if that is so, then he is dishonest.
As I said- I am not willing to trash either candidate with the slime and inuendo that is out there. I believe that both of these men are fine, courageous patriots. I will judge them on the issues that are most important to my family-

Health Care
Economic regulation
A woman's right to equal pay
International diplomacy and partnership
A fair living wage
Jobs
Tax cuts for the middle class
Assistance for small buiness
Alternative energy
The environment
Educational opportunity

So far, from my intensive research, I am more in sync with Obama's platform on these issues. John McCain's history on these issues- despite his recent rhetoric- is not good.

[flmagi]

McCain will definatley have us in more wars. This is an angry man with PTSD. Imagine what more wars will do to this country and it's economy.  McCain/Palin are a bee-line to disaster. McCain is absolutly more of Bush failed policies. McCain hasn't denied it, instead, he himself has said (fact) that he has voted with Bush 90% of the time. This is a fact people, from McCains mouth.
Answer 1 question, simple yes or no, Are you happy with the way things have been run the past 8 years?

[allaboutmary]

I meant to say under my comment about alternative energy. DRILL BABY DRILL !
Also under the comment of more war with McCain. BOMB BOMB BOMB BOMB IRAN !
These coming from the man your thinking about voting for !  Doesn't sound like someone that has thought things through.

If you voted for Bush the first time. You should be a little leary.
If you voted for Bush the second time. You should be seriously questioning your judgement.
If you vote for McCain it will be MORE OF THE SAME !  This is not just a catchy phrase that someone thought up. IT"S FACT !
We can't afford to have another president asleep at the wheel !

[allaboutmary]

McCain's downfall was his comment last week......the economy is fundamentally sound.  This was not a slip up, he actually felt that the economy is sound. This should scare the heck out of anyone thinking of voting for him. How can anyone possibly defend that statement? It shows a man truley out of touch with whats happening. Oh, of course he has since changed his mind. We need some forsight in our president not more denial.
McCain and Palin are running on doing away with earmarks. First of all not all earmarks are bad. Many help to re-build our infrastructure. (yes, some are frivolous)
McCain will not help the healthcare problem.
McCain will not make us energy independent, or find alternative energy.
McCain will not help the middle class.
Doesn't anyone see how the rich have gotten richer and the poor have gotten poorer in the past 8 yrs. This is fact people. Wake up !
McCain will cost us billions more with the Iraq war and probably add a few more wars in there. He's not big on diplomacy.

[HelpinUtah]

Lovepat:

I too have heard that McCain provided information to his captors as a POW, but I also heard from one of his POW buddies that he did NOT give out pertinent information.  But, at one point, during tortue he did break and he apologized for that.  But that was the only time and he gave NO information that would hurt our side.  How many of us would be able to withstand that constant tortue and not break!?  Many of them broke because of the horrible tortue.  McCain went through hell and has gone through hell for many years due the pain that he endured.  In fact, he still suffers the pain from back then.  Why do you think he cannot raise his arms over his head?  Besides, he had an opportunity to leave because of his father’s influence (he was offered that) and he would not leave his men behind!  The man is a hero no matter what anyone says about his politics.  I will always admire him for that as a true patriot and for his integrity.  For me, this has nothing to do with politics!

As for his politics, as a moderate conservative, I am not especially fond of some of his policies.  McCain is NOT another Bush.  Why do you think the Republicans were so disappointed with their choice for their nominee?  Because they thought he was too liberal.  I can remember over the past several years, hearing the republicans complain that McCain was a maverick, etc.  He is not my first choice on the conservative side.  I also believe there were better choices are the liberal side, but unfortunately, we're stuck with what we've got and now we have to make a choice.  

I wish I could vote for one of the independent's this year, but they just don't cut it!  So, my vote will most likely go to McCain.  

Having said that, I do intend to watch the debates carefully and make a decision based on all the facts and based on what they both have to say.  Who knows, I might end up not voting at all (for the first time in my adult life).  

[lovepat906]

Utah- Obama has had 4 years of national experience since that 2004 quote. The article you refer to was written by a very  neo-conservative  pundit and his "facts" on Obama and other issues have been debunked as highly questionable stretches of the truth.  There are people out there who claim that they have proof that McCain provided information to his captors as a POW. I could post those articles here. But, they are unproven and in my book smears- so I discount them. I wish that the trash talk on both sides would be ignored and those who spread it around exposed as the worthless sources they are. Mary's info re Obama's centrist stripes rings true if you take a careful look at his actual voting record- eight years in the Ilinois senate, 4 years in the US senate- 12 years of record on the issues. Then examine the McCain record. Vote for who you really agree with- after you know the facts. Remember- it has served the other side well to play the fear card. But  we  so need to let facts- not fear guide us in this crucial decision making. I hope that the debates focus on the real issues. If the moderators start off with 45 minutes of tabloid journalism, I will be so disappointed... but unfortunately not surprised.

[newgirl2708]

we are the world.....we are the children....sway....sway....good...keep going....


we are the world....we are the children.....

[flmagi]

Naughty,  It really surprises me, that you like Palin, since you're kind of an animal rights person, aren't you?  Please go read my journal about Palin, the facts, it's not pretty.

[HelpinUtah]

We don't want to be the death of you - we LOVE you!  LOL!!!!  (But, I still haven't decided to vote for Obama!!!)  :)

[allaboutmary]

I WON'T GIVE UP ON ANY OF YOU !  THERES STILL TIME.  
You guys are gonna be the death of me ! LOL

[allaboutmary]

NAUTY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   FOCUS , FOCUS  , IT'S ALL ABOUT THE ISSUES. NOT THAT YOU WANT TO HAVE A BEER WITH HER !!!!!!!!

[HelpinUtah]

Sarah has grown on me too!  

The debates will be good!  

[NautyOne]

Ut, oh, Mary.......I forgot about the debates..........hmmm.  That may be the thing to sink my vote.  So, I guess that makes me still on the ledge.  

I'm new to this voting thing......lol.

Can't wait for the debates !!!........Sarah has grown on me.....I have to admit.  Ugh...I am so confused !!!!

Nauty.............

[HelpinUtah]

Mooseburger!  LOL!!!!

Mimi:  I used to live in PA.  I actually grew up there.  I was born in Bristol, PA (Bucks County) just north of Philadelphia.  I moved to Utah in 1984 and then back to PA in 1993 with my hubby.  Then we came back to Utah in 2003.  Pennsylvania is quite interesting.  The area I grew up in in Bucks County was democratic (my mother and her family and my father and his family are all democrats and pretty liberal - they probably can't figure out what happened to me!!! LOL).  But, most parts of Bucks County tend to be conservative.  

I had read a couple weeks ago it was a key state.  I'm not surprised!

[mimi1313]

Too funny!!!

Did you see this article about how PA is a key state?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080922/ap_on_el_pr/battleground_pennsylvania

[allaboutmary]

I will be serving mooseburger ! LMAO

[HelpinUtah]

Mimi:
I don't think they can convince me to go to the other side.  I have been learning quite a bit about Obama and the corruption in Chicago.  He was NOT the reformer everyone thinks he was.  He allowed things to go on without getting involved so his hands would appear clean.  I have more to post about that.  But, I will watch the debates with an open mind (if I can!!! LOL!!! considering the information I'm finding).  I promise I will be sharing it - but it's going to be long!!!  LOL!!!

I'm glad you're being open-minded (actually probably moreso than me if I was to be honest!)

I have enjoyed this communication.  

[mimi1313]

I'll be there! What are we having to eat?
HelpinUtah, you sound like you are wavering. Are Mary and Magi convincing you to go to the other side?

[HelpinUtah]

I'm looking forward to the debates too!!!!  I've been reading lots and lots of information on both candidates and I'm sorry I'm not that pleased with either of them.  Obama is extremely liberal way too far to the left for my taste.  I can't figure out why I don't care for McCain too much because he is more like me as far as being moderate.  He's not too far right or left and that's where I fit in.  I don't know, but at this point, I would have to vote for McCain, but I am keeping an open mind when it comes to the debates.  

[allaboutmary]

I want to have a debate party !  Wanna come ?

[mimi1313]

Mary, you are too funny! But I really do appreciate the information. Just wait until after the debates. You are going to be so sick of me!

[allaboutmary]

abrown1178.........stick around . We need your help getting Mimi and HelpinUtah over to the good side. lol

[allaboutmary]

The artical you posted above is really not about Obama being liberal, it's more of an attack that he is a black radical.  Which he is not.
Joe Biden is pationate, but also a gaff machine. If you look at his life and his record it's pretty impressive.
As far as congress not getting anything done with Bush holding up his veto pen every time they even think about it.  When Obama gets elected you watch things are going to be zooming out of congress.  
As far as our mortgage mess,which lead to our wallstreet mess. I agree many people, stupid and the greedy took advantage. Thats why we need regulation. Who was against regulation of wallstreet.....McCain/Bush.
copy & paste about Obama being liberal.
Anatomy of a Right Wing Myth: Obama is the most liberal Democratic Senator
By: Howie Klein on Monday, May 19th, 2008 at 9:00 AM - PDT   Lately John and I have been gnashing our collective teeth every time we see one of the Republican shills on TV repeating, mantra-like, the #1 GOP Big Lie of the campaign: “Barack Obama is the most liberal member of the U.S. Senate.”

If only! Actually there are 39 Democrats with more liberal voting records, although Obama does at least beat perennial Bush rubber stamps Holy Joe Lieberman (CT), Ben Nelson (NE) and Mary Landrieu (LA). His voting record– however you slice it, however you dice it– points to a solidly mainstream centrist– and, to be honest, considerably less liberal than… sssshhhhhhh… Hillary.

So how do CNN, CBS, ABC and NBC all allow the paid GOP shills to get away with their Big Lie? Good question. There’s one cooked up National Journal “study” that these clowns keep referring to– yes the same cloddish National Journal that criticized its own ranking of John Kerry as “the most liberal senator” in 2004.

This year, their utterly meaningless ranking system, ready-made for Republican smear attacks, defined “liberal” as members who voted, on January 18, to establish a Senate Office of Public Integrity to handle ethics complaints against senators. Given the Republican Culture of Corruption that still rules the Beltway, that may be anti-Republican, but what makes it “liberal?” Similarly anyone who agreed in mid-March to the final passage of a bill implementing the 9/11 Commission’s Homeland Security recommendations, is suddenly “liberal?” And on May 9, Obama joined many other senators in voting to block individuals from serving on Food and Drug Administration drug advisory panels if they have conflicts of interest.

Let’s hope more Americans start defining liberal this way. Because to me this all sounds very mainstream, even if John “W” McCain was on the wrong side of each vote.

[allaboutmary]

Mimi.....I wouldn't do that to your computer..heheheheh

HelpinUtah.... When Obama started as a state senator they were allowed to recieve cash and all kinds of personal gifts as campaingn donations. It was down right a way to legally bribe senators and congressmen. Obama was the one who put a stop to it. He has faught this kind of coruption all along. One of his biggest issues is to get lobbiest out of Washington.