Alternatives

[JAMAWAMA]

Hello,
Is there any alternative narcotic(less potent)that would help with replacing Hydrocodone. I've been taking the prescribed dose of hydro for over a year now. I would like to be done with them but don't want the WD's. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

[IrishRose]

Hi Wren,
     No it wasn't my day to watch him but I did anyway. I was supposed to be working at home but he distracted me,he's an old fart but a really cute one.  I finally told him to go play outside and he did and he actually did some yard work when he was out there. He laughs at me about the Darvon too. I took one, mind you, one, about a month ago when I hurt my neck. Much to his amusement, I really got really looned out on it and one flexeril. But I'm just a lightweight alcoholic with a fondness for cough syrup and benzos not a crusty old junkie.  W/D's suck don't they? Hope you are feeling better. You are right about the Chalomile (sp?) tea. I have found it to be a cure all for just about all that ails me from a broken heart to my aching back. I think I will go make some now and curl up in bed with the latest buddhist book I am reading. Good karma to all and to all a good night.
IR

[angst]

it sounds like you have your hands full.  it is tougher when a person is older and hurting.  i used to be a nurse until i failed a UDS.  i'm glad skipper is fine.  he is a wonderful poet.
he could bless us with some of his prose.  don't get too busy to take care of yourself.  i care.  good luck and Blessings, Ava

[GOD]

Hey... Nobody needs to watch Skipper.... He does quite fine on his own! By the way, where have you been lately Skip? I just got back from Minnesota last night (again) been dealing with my poor morphine addicted Aunt. She's considering a stay at Hazelden treatment center, but she's afraid of what the withdrawls will do to her. She has been on Morphine for almost one year now, and ONE time she only had a half-day dose to last until her next refill, and was rolling on the floor in considerable pain. She knows it will be a hard road, but wants to get the treatment, as her pain is now more Morphine-related nerve damage than the original neuropathy... and more pain meds are only going to make it worse.

Good Day!
Jess

[angst]

Girl, you got ants in your pants.  You got us all pegged, but I do not have a stash, except for that gross orange juice methadone.  If I take it today, I only have one dose a day, and I would be in a fix if I did not have my fix tomorrow.  That is the methadone dilemma.  I don't know about the loss of hinkster and irishrose,  man, everybody is slowly moving to another group of guru's, like we are not good enough.   Now who's watching SKipper?

[rowanshyne]

I just want to post what everyone else is saying:

I really, really, really hate being an addict.

I've posted before that my brother and husband have chronic pain, but if they run out of pills, oh  well, ho hum.  I could just smack them!
Thank you all for being here each and every day, and when I'm crying and dying coming through for me.  I hope one day, I can do the same for someone.

gwh - I know *exactly* what you're saying. EXACTLY.  You're not having W/D, you're not even afraid of having W/D, you're simply in the habit of taking the bloody pills!
Time to get up, reach for a .... oh, they're not there anymore, hmmmm.
Have to make an important call, meeting, appointment, better grab a ..... oh, they're not there anymore, hmmmm.
Feeling some uncomfortable emotions, I know there used to be something I did when that happ .... oh, they're not there anymore.

Angst - Family leaving me all alone for a few days, alright!  I'll take some ..... oh, they're not there anymore.

Tracy - Gods you are *so* good.  Don't worry.  They're not there all the time anymore, and you really won't need them to be.  I love you.

Skipper - Do you know I hear you gasp in amazement every time I post that I was addicted to Darvocet for *six* long, bloody, friggin' years.  Stop that!  I hear you laughing.  Listen, I was an alcoholic for six *weeks*, too.  Had to be hospitalized and sedated to prevent DTs and yes, it really was only six *weeks*.  As my Daddy always used to tell me, "Sugar, you can do anything if you put your mind to it", and I did.  I became an alcoholic and finished with it in two months and I was addicted to *Darvocet*, so neener, neener, neener!  Lol!
Hug that angel on your shoulder for me.

Irishrose - Was it your turn to watch Skipper today?

Am I the only person who ever laughs on this forum?  No, I am not high.  I am in fact craving and twitching until my last taper dose of the day.  If I can't laugh at something, though, I may as well just take the whole bottle and be done.

Blessings,
Wren

[angst]

tracy,  good to hear you are feeling better.  i did not think you would have w/d's after only 15 pills.  you learn a lot and pass it on to me.  thank you. i need your support and wisdom gained from the ups and downs.  
Skipper puts it words that i cannot.  i'm not the poet. he is a talented writer.  for me, certain people really compliment one another by their differences and common ground.  we all struggle to stay away from drugs.  but life does not stop because of me, and my daily problems.  it is for me to try to find the solution.  i usually run it past the forum for input.  this is a great place to voice solutions before trying them.              Thanks to the whole forum, it is stronger as a whole than any one individual in the forum.    Ava

[TeleVision]

well i know this is gonna be burried in all these posts but i think the best thing to switch to is darvocet N-100 or darvon 65mg. Schedule IV narcotic as apposed to S III hydrocodone. it is a step down and then maybe you can tapper off those easier.

TeleVision

[tex3]

Sorry I freaked on y'all yesterday. After I detoxed in April I swore I'd never go through that again, so when I thought I might have to it scared the **** out of me. BUT, the good news is I don't think it's going to happen. After taking a few doses yesterday my head was finally better, but I was sick as hell from the pills; I think my body can't handle that high a dose anymore, it killed my stomach. Made me remember why I quit in the first place.
I emailed my doctor and he said he did not think 2 days of hydros would cause withdrawal, which calmed me down. This morning I woke up with a migraine "aura" so took my Imitrex nasal spray, which got rid of it. So far no headache, and I havne't touched the Lortab. Best of all I am having no withdrawal signs so maybe all is okay! I still have some left so if it gets bad I will take -- but I'm not craving! Yeah! Makes me a very happy girl. I actually feel pretty damn good this morning. Going to my mom's tonight, where she has a whole bottle of Imitrex she's giving me, so hopefully I won't get into this mess again. One good thing is it reminded me of why I don't want to be a pillhead. Not that I ever forgot, but it was a good remedy to the cravings that were hitting me. Normally if I had ANY pills in the house I'd swallow them first thing when I awoke, but today I didn't touch them. Sounds simple but was a big step forward for me.

I want to thank everyone who offered me support in so many ways. Y'all are the best group around. I won't be here through the weekend and will miss everyone, so expect lots of posts from me on Monday.

Angst -- When your ex and daughter go away, try to think that instead of being left alone, you're getting some free time! Read a book, be lazy, enjoy yourself, go see movies, anything you've wanted to do but couldn't while playing wife (or ex) and mother. And write/call me any time you need to. You've come too far to slip, and I know you won't -- you're the original "mean queen" with drugs!

[angst]

You said it and you said it good.  If w/d's killed me, I'd be dead a long time ago.  Mr. Jones is different, he is a demon all his own.  If I can deal with the abandonment issue of my ex and daughter going to Horn Island for 8 days without Mr. Jones knocking, busting my door down, I will know something inside of me has changed.  During the latter part of May,  I will be posting until you all want to run me off.
Thanks for the wisdom Skipper.

[skipper]

ok people, at last i have time:
been real busy and have not had time to even give everything a
good read. from what i've gathered a couple are having some issues with taking a couple of deserved pain relieveing blast off old Jones. even though i periodically detox, i could not survive at the constant high rate of pain i suffer from. i've drawn some conclussions:
1) god is likely a sadistic ________
2) pain is mandatory
3)suffering is optional

now let me ask all of you the same question i ask myself every-
day. any of you bother to think what you would do if you ever legitimately needed all of these opiates you have been  flooding your bodys with? i didn't...i bet no body else did either. score one up for old jones....ever deny yourself pain eliminating dope? well score another for old Jones.

SEE, YA' CAN'T BEAT JONES! he's like blind joe death...he knows
(always knows) when to show up, and it's always on his time.

i've said it before, some days ya' just gotta notch the belt
tight, pick up your step, and put your head way down. the only
way to do this is just do it. 'scuse me i gotta get my head down
and get trucking...

keep an angel on your shoulder
kip

[angst]

I've detoxed off some major drugs, a four year habit of Stadol NS, taking a bottle a day for the last 2 years.  I've kicked dilaudid so many times, I lost count.  I'd use for 3 months or 6 months and get caught by my ex, and kick at home alone.  The w/d from the first time on the methadone for 2 years going from 90mg to nil.  The methadone was the worst.  It lasted almost a month, but I was alright.  If I had to jump off the methadone,  I could not do it.  Once I had detoxed of methadone, and I had been going to NA meetings every day and night, I felt very good physically.  I lost weight, about 50lbs, and my skin looked so good.  I never had to deal with long w/d.  Even kicking the dilaudid at home in the easy chair.  I had stomach ills for a week and a half.  Then the pain starts in places I never knew I had for another two weeks.  Then I started feeling better.  I will stay on the methadone for another couple of months.  I have been able to turn around many things.  I needed the counselling and group.  Thanks to everyone on this forum.  You have helped me put things in perspective.  I hope you all do well with w/d's.
I hope I never know what protracted w/d is.  Tracy, you will do good.  Take it one day or hour or minute at a time.  Consciously relaxing as much as you can.  I hope I get a job soon.   I am out there looking.   I have to cook dinner, feed my pets, and water my garden.  I guess we are in another drought for a couple of weeks.  Thanks to you all for listening and caring,  Ava

[hippy]

good to to everyone posting,  i mean it's really nice to see
everyone back and posting like one big famly.
ash i glad to see your post , i had not seen ya for a while
was hoping you were doing good.
gwh always good to see ya posting, thanks.

the sun is out and it's i great day.

enjoy the day to all.

[groovygirl]

i'm not offended by anything you've said...why would you think that?  i just really think our age difference and lifestyles are so completely opposite, that we can't really relate on certain things...no bad feelings tho.

i can't relate to taking one pill a week and having any w/d.  i actually used to do something like that, when i was in college.  i broke my ankle, and took one or two on the weekends...the bottle lasted me months!  i never had any w/d from it.  

in my experience, a lot of addicts aren't truthful....especially about how much they are using - take me for example...sometimes i take more bup than i'm supposed to, and when asked about it, i used to deny it.  i used to lie and lie and lie.  so, it wouldn't be that unusual for anyone here to lie about their own usage...i certainly wouldn't hold it against them.  i just can't help them tho...i'm at this point where i am desperate for the truth.

ANYWAY....i'm rambling.  i'm sorry that you are in this situation...if you're taking one pill a day, i don't think you have much to worry about...i'm not a dr. tho, so who really knows except you. i certainly DO know what that fear is like...make you wonder why we keep doing this to ourselves?

[oh please already]

hi  i hope your feeling better, sorry i dont have time right now to babble but one thing crossed my mind   and again maybe mr michael can tell us, my computers all messed up ans sooooooooooo slow i can cook a turkey before the page changes, so i cant verfiy it right now but   my doctor and the lady in gmc vit store both said that the 5htp is a artifical thyroid imposter and that with my high blood pressure it would be a risk to take it.The sales lady also mentioned that it had been pulled from the market a while back because people were having drug interactions so they had to reformulate it-now like i said,this is hersay that i was told and i cant  verfiy it but my doctor is pretty informed on homopathic meds ans the lady seemed informed, so maybe,if you are taking the recipe,i cant remember,its making your headaches worse or maybe you got a bottle before they reformulated it-i dont know-just putting things out there- did u ter typing free meds into the computer to see if you can get on a program? you dont have to be low income,just in need and here in new york they have family first plus- free or low cost insurance for people without- the coverage we got is the same exact that robs company carried before the layoff- even better- no copays.just shop the list ,different carriers ,different benifits. I kno w new jersy has it also and i think its federal so the odds r your state will too. also  one last thing- you know the PEOPLE INSURANCE PLAN you see on tv for $4.95 a month is deffently worth it,it coverys your whole house for less than 5 dollors and cuts the cost of rx darmaticly,i think 1 i had was 130 dollors cash and then 32 with the card,so even if u use it once u made back your money. I know that it was very steep discount ,even for controlled . feel better    forgive my typos   thinking of u all   laura

[OxyDout]

Groovy, I told you what Ive really been doing, staying sober, honest to god, I think the issue lies with taking 1 vic every 7 days or so. Although its pretty much nothing, my body senses the substance and it craves and that kills everything, does that make sense??  And trust me, I would never have a reason to lie to you or anyone else in this forum.  I come here so I can talk.  You have been a great friend to me through all of this, I'm serious, you have made me think before I act, that means a lot to me and I know I can tell you anything and you won't judge me.  So, I guess I don't have too much to be worried about, like I said, I don't think the wd will be bad at all but it scares me.  Tell me if you have felt like this.  Your so used to taking pills, and your so used to getting sick when you run out........so when you have nothing to take after cutting back you freak out.  Eventhough your fine, you feel the need to take something because your afraid you will go through WD, does that happen to you?? I don't even know if that made sense.  Anyway, thank you for the inspiration and I do apologize for anything that has offended you in the past, and or for being stubborn to opinions and suggestions............

GWH

[angst]

Tracy,  you are stronger than the drugs.  I feel almost like a hipocrit telling you that when I am on the methadone.  It is not a fix all, do not feel good all the time, no pain type of medication.  I still feel things, esp pain.  I just learned not to run from it.  Get strong and mean about drugs.  Anyone who offers it to you except for genuine cause, is not your friend.  I still think you need a work-up since the surgery, unless you already have.  I would tell the doc every thing you are taking.  He will find out what is going on, it he is a good doctor.  Otherwise, get a second opinion.  Try getting on rehab.  They pay doctor's visits and necessary tests.  It is difficult the first couple of times you call.  I finally went down there.  They payed for a d&c with biopsies and the surgical total hyst.
Good luck my friend, and write back.  Ava

[tex3]

GWH - I know it's hard to think of this when you dread it so bad, but would the 2-3 days be worse than what you're going through now, every few weeks? God, this is such a hard ride, isn't it? Here I am with a perfectly legit reason for taking hydros (only for a few days) and all I can think of is, how am I going to get more when they're gone? The answer is, of course, I'm NOT going to get more. And I will be depressed and anxious and think of nothing else, and then it will pass. Actually, until I signed on here a minute ago it consumed me and was all I could think of. Now I'm feeling stronger. I WILL get through this and I WILL be strong. If I continue to get headaches beyond that, I'll deal with it. I made a lunch date for tomorrow with an old work buddy, and now I'm freaking that I will once again have to cancel because I'll be in the dumps. But if I have to cancel, so be it. I'm not going to drug seek just to make it through a frigging lunch.
Sorry to digress; I'm supposed to be offering you help. You were on a lot of Oxy; I was at that level at one time, then dropped back down to 150-220mgs of hydro. This is a tough ride.

It actually just occurred to me that maybe there's a reason for all this, for me getting the damn migraines. I was having cravings, but never gave in. Finally with the pain I gave in to that. Maybe when I fall in the dumps again after I run out it will point out to me just how bad the ride really is. Then when I crave again I can remember how bad it felt after those few pills ran out, and know that it's never enough. It really isn't enough, is it? We always need more. I need more now. I'm consumed with it. I think, just give me a few good days -- but that's not honest and that's not where I want to be. I need help; I really need y'all right now and for the next days as I deal with this. I didn't relapse in that I went out and got pills to enjoy; but now that I have some, I once again love the feeling. It has to stop. I can't live my life like this. I never want to need these again. I pray to God that these migraines stop so I don't give in.

Angst -- I've had a complete workup with my neuro, when I still had insurance. I had an MRI, CAT scan. I haven't had my EEG, which I really do need because my brain waves are apparently screwy. But I also can't afford to go back to the doctor because it's too much $$$. So I'm stuck for now. I saw my regular doc yesterday and he gave me some suggestions. Also I can't afford to get my Tegretol levels checked if that's going to be expensive. We just don't have the money right now. As soon as I get the money I will go see the neuro and get some answers. That will be a few weeks though. I have to get some work and make some money.

Thanks Groovy and everyone for your kind support. Please help me get through this difficult time. I'm so afraid that the cravings are going to be worse than ever now that I've had a taste of the forbidden. I can't do this alone. I need your help. Please help.

[groovygirl]

i don't understand why you are fearful of those 2-3 days of w/d if you haven't really been using in over 2 months.  tell me what you've been really doing...i won't judge you or make you feel bad about it.  we're here to help, and everyone slips up...look at me for crying out loud.  if it was easy, none of us would be here.

you CAN do this...i know if you really want it, you will succeed.  write again...

[OxyDout]

Tex3 at one point I was taking about 160mg of oxy a day, I have only dabbled with a MINIMAL amount of methadone to detox as well as a hydro, I havent taken anthing to really get "high" for over two months, however, I also end up taking something here or there. What I need to do is find a way to truely detox for 5 days, or just suck it up, I don't think i'm too far off, i think if i stick it out for a couple of days the physical wd will be over, however, i fear those 2 to 3 days....... you know how that goes...............

Groovy, thank you so much, that post meant a lot, its kind of funny how you know my stubborn attitude, haha, but i greatly appreciate your support, it means the world to me right now.

thanks again,

GWH

[angst]

Tracy,  I do not think 15 Lortabs will put you back into w/d's.
That is a very few.  You would do worse if you took them all at once.  But as long as you are taking them 2 every 4-6 hours, I cannot see that you will have w/d's.  Ask the neurologist about the recipe you are taking along with the tegretol and estrogen.
I had the same surgery as you in March.  I had my methadone and took Morphine in the hospital, with tylox at home.  I was fine once I was out of tylox, because I only took it when I was supposed to have it.  I cannot afford the estrogen right now.  I am doing okay.  I have a few hot flashes, but nothing else bothers me.  I consume plenty of calcium and vit.D.  I have refills of estrogen, as soon as I can afford it.  I could ask my uncle {the doctor} to send me my estrogen along with all the other meds he sends for my asthma.  
I just hope your neurologist can help you.  Do not take more than the max of imitrex.  I cannot take anything like that with the post heart attack and my asthma.

[ash]

hope everyone is well. i have to travel freqently for my job so it sucks when i dont have a computer to post on. I feel so so. just wanted to check in and say hi. congrats hippy on 5 weeks! im very happy and proud. Now i ve gotta get that. anyway, i hvae to leave again today for the weekend and maybe mon and tuesday but ill be back for sure. Thqanks for being there. I wish you all a great and relaxing weekend and ill post when i get back. take care.

the ash

[angst]

Tracy,  I know you are upset right now.  The part about being scared of pain is a major issue.  I think a trip to a neurologist is due and soon.  With the seizures, and now intolerable vascular headaches, you probably need a work up.  He will need to check your tegretol level in a couple of weeks.  You are doing what I would do if it happened to me.
I was having terrible vascular headaches that would hit me in clusters.  So the shots  never really helped that much.  I'd just go back for another.  When I was on the StadolNS.  I pretty much had control of the headaches, but I was addicted to the Stadol, because I could not function without it.  I'm on the methadone now, and I control my headaches before they get bad by relaxing the trapazoid muscles and relaxing.  I can do that.
I do not think you have relapsed, but I am concerned about your neurological system.  Can you see a neurologist soon? Ava

[tex3]

The only thing that helped me cold turkey was time. I could never taper; no self-control.
I'm sure you know all the usual: Immodium, Kava Kava, 5HTP. Have you ever done the at-home detox cocktail? For me it was phenobarb, Bentyl, a strong muscle relaxer, and a few others. That worked wonders. I missed where you said how much you used.
I never could really work when I was in the worst of my WD. After a few days I dragged mysef, but at the worst I actually thought I was dying, so couldn't do it. You are young; maybe your body will be tougher than mine. Tell me how you are right now, where you are in your rehab/detox. Also, can you get any clonidine? If I took clonidine, even without the other cocktail stuff, with just a little bit of opiate, I could get through. Other than that, just Father Time, cold comfort that it is. I really feel for you, as it's an awful place to be. I'm afraid I might have to feel it too, as I got a small script for hydro for migraines. It's only 15; do you think I will WD after that small amount?

[groovygirl]

you've come so far.  taking a couple pills to "get you thru," is only going to set you back...you'll have to start all over again.  there is something called post withdrawal syndrome (i think that's what it's called), so what you are experiencing isn't uncommon. if you have insurance thru your work, maybe you could use it to get into some kind of out-patient program or see an addiction specialist.  i KNOW you don't want to do either of those things, but aren't they worth a try before you put a pill in your mouth?

it's probably going to be hard for awhile still....try to hang in there - you have been doing SO GREAT!!! you can do this!