Anesthesia and Oxy Problems

[Van Lingle]

Hello all, I'm a first time poster here but I've gleaned a lot of valuable info just lurking. I had shoulder surgery on Jan. 21 of this year and was readmitted to the hospital a month later for a remanipulation. On both occassions I was given a general anesthetic and was placed on oxycontin after the second visit. After a 6 week tapering off session I've been clean of oxy (contin and codone) for 6 weeks now. I'm still experiencing depression and lethargy unlike anything I've ever known before. My question is, is it the oxy withdrawl or the anesthesia that's got me like this (assuming it's not something else)? A friend of mine who is fairly knowledgable on medical matters tells me that general anesthesia can leave you out of sorts for as much as 6 months and she thinks this might be the problem. Any opinions or experiences to share? Thanks, vl

PS I've been using the detox recipe found here from the first week of withdrawl.

[kilo]

Your question (sorry long ago) on how you became re-addicted is actually answered quite easily. I asked my physician about tolerance and renewal of naturally occuring endorphins. He was not helpful.

   By trade I'm a cardiac physiologist (research into reversing the effects of coronary heart disease and hypertension) so I broke out my old study guides from college on neurotransmission with-in the opoid, MU, and dopamine receptors. Interesting findings to say the least. I will admit that I have to revise what I wrote about tolerance. I spent the money and ask a group of doctors on this forum about that issue. They all agreed that tolerance returns to normal with-in a 3-6 month period following a complete absistence of opoids. But, re-addiction happens much faster. Check out my comments on the following thread below. Hope they help.

comment by kilo - A new Day - Go ahead and ask anything

[Shreddi]

Hi, to those who experienced hearing loss using drugs like vicodin.  I just spent all night researching everything I could on it and found this page after looking at 100's of others.  It appears to be the combination of hydrocodone and acetaminophen.  At least thats what I have read so far.  I was actually looking for advise on getting off of vicodin and opiate related drugs when I found that news.  Being a musician for the past 27+ years and concerned about my hearing going bad not knowing why, this blows my mind.  Well Im quiting sooner than I expected.  They just started to realize it in the 90's (or admitted it as a possibility) and if not for the internet I would probably not of known untill too late.  I did read there are nutrients that induces blood flow to the ear area thats recomended.  Right now im printing out everything I find and asking questions like this.  Since you have quit taking the drugs did your hearing finally stabalize at some point?  I noticed you said it got noticably worste when you stopped.  If you dont mind me asking how many and how long and what caused it.  For myself I love everything opiate, so when the black stuff wasnt around it took a ton of prescriptions to get me where I needed.  I tried to stick to diluadid (no acetaminophen) or norco cause it has very little.  For those who wanna call me stupid and moronic I have to agree.  I wish I had known.  I research everything I take but never heard this before.  I notice they do say its rare and so far less than 50 people have been diagnosed.  Who knows maybe its a combination of something else and that we all coincidently did.  Anyway good luck to all and take care.  Thanks very much.

[slickrock]

just wondering how it is coming.  i am proud of your attempts and the progress that you have made.  Tell us about the fourth day and so on. Don't be afraid to be honest as we all know it is an incredible challenge to kick it.

I KNOW YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!!

[slickrock]

just want to know.  Did you kick the oxys and if so how did you do it?  Was it the diet that finally helped.  I have heard so much about the diet, but no one yet has given it credit to success of kicking the addiction.

I am pretty desparate for an answer.  I can't afford the addiction and my friend threatens suicide if he attempts again.


Thanks,
slickrock

[slickrock]

Congratulations on your progress.

I am trying to help someone that is addicted to oxys and you don't even know how much hope your input on this forum has given me.  

I have a friend that wants to kick the addiction, but can't.  He is skeptical about doing the rapid detox because he is afraid that he will just get back on the oxys and end up with a big debt.

Mabey some answers from someone who like you who has been through the detox can help.  
How much oxys you were doing before the detox?
(he wants to know because his is pretty serious and he is concerned that it won't work because of how much he has been taking)
Do you have any craving for it at all?
What are all of the withdrawl symptoms you have had after the detox?

Thanks sooooo much for everyones input.  Everyone's input helps.  


Thanks,
slickrock

[lilangel]

hi i have been on vicodin es for 2 years after a accident, i now have chronic pain!! the pills really dont even help with the pain, but i still take them anyway,,2 every 3-4 hours,, today i went into my safe and took a oxycontin pill and snorted it!! i dont know why i did it i think its because i was curious to see what the big deal is about it, as it didnt help when i tryed to use it months ago for pain, so i put them in my safe along with my morphine etc,, i didnt get high from the pill , does this now mean im a drug addict because i went and snorted this pill well, actually just a line, threw the rest out!! i feel so ashamed of myself, i cant believe i did this , can someone please give me some addvice?? thanks..lilangel

[jonesing247]

Hey row, ive just detoxed off oxy's (6-8 80mg a day) and i was wondering whats up with the feet thing? they really really hurt. i cant believe that happened to you too. also, i detoxed three weeks ago and stayed clean for 5 days - i figured the w/ds were done. then i went back to the oxy's for a week and then started to detox again last sun. Im feeling better today but the last three days were ****....why did i go through w/d's again? i though after the first w/ds they were done. how could one week of use after that give me w/d's? i thought maybe you could help. thanks. email - ***@****

[angst]

even with the casinos they moved in and ran off the terns, employment is limited right now.  the casinos treat you like a dog, worse than i treat mine.  i hope you can find a job you like.  you might try the local library.  i worked for the local library system for 5 years before i went to nursing school.  i
worked public service for 2 years.  then i had my own little
cubicle and computer in technical services.  we ordered, received, and processed the books and other items for 8 branches.
what color candles?  you know you are in my prayers.  good luck on the tapering.     Ava

[angst]

you did a good job.  you will probably be tired for a month. you
can try exercising for those endorphins, but after a strenuous bike ride or run, i have cravings.  that is strange, and i do not
understand why it works that way for me.  i stay close to my cardioglide.  it is low impact and with the shift of the arms, i work my abdomen and my gluts and legs.  i crave chocolate lots and give in most of the time.  i will forego meals for sweets.  that is not good.  i hope my kid does not notice.  she does what i do when i am upset.  she will not eat.  our children watch and
mimic us, so i have to be careful.  
she saw me kick dilaudids and methadone, so i do not fear that she will turn to drugs.  she hates them.  
i'm so glad you are doing well.  keep on posting.

[row]

Thanks for your comment and congrats on the job.

They did not implant the nalextrone, they gave it to me in pill form. This helps block the craving and if you do take an opiate you can go into rapid withdraw and could die they say, so that stops you from taking anything, You are supposed to take the nalextrone for 9 months. I talked to the doctor and said I am serious about stopping so I dont want to put anything in my body, even the nalextrone. He said fine but keep them on you in case you get the urge.

If I did not have to go to work I probably would have tried to stop myself but time was a factor and this cut out 4-7 days. I was so worried about holding it together and I did not have the time so I went to rapid detox. I am in deep debt but I cant look back, its over and I am clean and who knows what would of happened. It creeps in my brain and I get mad for spending that kind of money that I dont have, but I will make it.

Well no urges since the rapid detox and whats weird is that I dont crave, even without the nalextrone. Its probably that I feel so tired and crapy at times that I REALLY dont want to start from scratch again, ever! Its been 18 days and today was a downer because I felt better(more energy) yesterday, it might have to do with what I ate(chocolate) which you should stay away from they say, and I also read the paper in the sun and that can whack you out too, but thats good because maybe I will get 4 1/2 hours of sleep tonight.

I really did not think that the lethargy and weakness would last so long. It really sucks. But I keep checking this forum out, try and keep a good attitude, and try to eat right and I keep pushing, and it will get better. I hope the lethargy and weakness goes away in a week. Is there any real time frame on this, probably not, I guess everyone is different and since I was using oxy and chewing the little bastards it will probably take a little longer, It blows my mind to think how powerful drugs are and the toll it takes on our bodies.

30 to 60 days to get better, some people even longer, thats f-up.

Take care and lots of courage to you all.

Row

[rowanshyne]

Thank you, Ava.  It's nice to be noticed. <smile>  I admire you so much.  I don't believe I could even contemplate working in a shipyard.  I'm hoping to find work I can do on my faithful little computer.  I also don't work and play well with others, so a nice, nice cubicle looks very good to me.
Where I live, the only 12-step available is AA.  It's well attended and it's every night, but, I'm a *drug addict* so I give them some one they can look down on.  *I* know I'm not less then, so I prefer to get my NA fix here online.  You who are attending regular meetings keep posting the "catch" phrases I need to help me keep going.
Also, my ex-husband is now attending the AA meetings up here and ..... well, I don't know if I could sit and smile and nod politely listening to his brand of honesty! lol!

Kip, you dog, you!  You were right and I was wrong.  There, I've said it. One day you'll get tired of being right, I know you will.<BEG>  I couldn't get Buprenex, but I got Darvocet from my Dr. (boy did he ever like somebody asking for a *weaker* narcotic for a change!).  It's working well to taper, and I should be off by the end of the week.  Candles and prayers welcome here, folks.  I've been on vikes for a year again, and not only is withdrawal the pits (thought not as bad as cold turkey), but I'm going through that stupid habit stuff of not having a particular action (swallowing pills) for various triggers - Getting up, being alone, getting upset, and so on.  I *miss* not taking the pills!  Can you believe it?!
My body is so programmed to get high, that when I take the Darvocet an hour later my brain stops me in my tracks and says, "Whoa, there!  What's wrong with this picture.  You swallowed and there's no buzz!"
I *hate* this ****!

Wren

[angst]

congratulations!!!!  i am proud of you.  in na there is a thing we call "stinking thinking", do not court those drugs or romaticize the booze and cocaine.   remember the ugly side of using.  vomiting and snorting cocaine until you had no money left.  you are a better, more real person without it.  keep up the good work.       Good luck and Blessings, Angst

PS.NA helps a lot.  Isolating ones self does not promote recovery
as well as an addict helping another addict has no greater benefit.

[Nawoc]

I read all your posts. All you people are so caring and understanding..  I have detoxed from a little of it all at one time or another..  Just think about tomorrow, it is a new day. It is never easy and you may detox 100s of times before you finally detox that last time and stay clean..  Everyday I think of several different reasons why I should or could with a clean concise get a bottle of vodka and a gram of cocain. BUT, today I didn't....  And I'm not tomorrow.

Good Luck to you all.
And thanks for all your support...

[angst]

hello,   you are a fixture on this forum, straight - stoned- or detoxing.  you know most depression is situational.  there are the few who have a chemical embalance or bipolar who have real need of antidepressants.   for most of us others have a situation
that will heal the depression once the situation is gone.
seeing that doctor will never hurt.  there is always the recipe.
neither will seeing a doctor hurt.  i want you to feel better.  you are one i read and look forward to your postings.  i am not trying to put anyone on a pedistal.  that could only hurt.  but
you have a lot to give.  i can tell you are a good person.  you
will make it through this depression and the blahs.  you know what you need to do.  Good luck and Blessings,   Ava

[angst]

you have been accosted wrongly.  i wish you the best of luck in the future. really i'm saying live life everyday to the fullest,
without the drugs.  i'm on the orange juice methadone at a great
clinic.  We have individual conselling and group therapy.  i get my money's worth and then some.  if my counseller is busy, i pop
into another counseller's door to get things off my mind and solutions to my problems.  it is difficult to see problems sometimes before we are too close to see things objectively.
this is my second time on methadone, so i know about the w/d's.
  i am growing through this time. i still go to NA.  my home group welcomes me even though they know about the methadone.  i never want to go back through what i did , i hurt my daugher so
much, and lost the trust of my exhusband.  getting a job helped me so with my family.  getting away from drugs is changing people, places and things.  you can buy anything you want in the
parking lot of the methadone clinic.  i spend my time inside and then leave shortly after.  i do not mingle.  it is just a rule of thumb.  i hope you find sobriety.  i also wish you can let go of this radioboy nonsense.  none of us around for a while think otherwise.  no one holds a gun to an addict and say take this.
an addict may hold a gun on someone else and say give me your money.   after all this,  i want you to know i support you.  ava

[rowanshyne]

Congratulations! on your new job.  I'm still looking, I know it's out there.
I live in a little old mining town in the mountains, so jobs are scarce.  I'm not picky at this point, but there's not much to pick from!

Wren

[angst]

thanks for coming back and telling me what it was like to rapid
detox.  i finally got a job.  nothing to brag about, but grandma
always said if you did a good day's work, it is honest.  i glad you had a positive w/d.  did they inject the naltrexone pellets?
you did it and i am so proud of you!!!!!
Keep posting and let me know how it goes.   Ava

[rowanshyne]

So good to see you all again.  The last time I had a chance to read, I'd had so little sleep, I felt ****-eyed and everything I read looked ****-eyed.
As in, in all the months I've been reading the board, seeing the recipe, even copying it onto "Notepad", Hippy's post stating "EIGHT l-tyrosine" finally registered.
I've only been taking 4 a day and the depression was about to lift me bodily and throw me over the edge.
I'll just go ahead and take the correct dose now. Doh!!

Thank you all for being here everytime I get a chance to snag some computer time.
I *always* need the boost I get from you all.

Van Lingle's question about depression and lethargy have been answered, so I'll just throw in my, "Me too!"
They are the worst I have ever felt, just plain unimaginable and overwhelming.  You can pick up the recipe ingredients at most health food/vitamin stores and while you're wondering if it will really help, know that they sure can't make you feel any *worse*.

Hang on, I look forward to seeing you, Van Lingle, when I get back on again, just like I need all the others.

Wren

[row]

Hi everyone, I am back. I went through the rapid detox which basically cleans out your system and breaks off the drug that is attached to your receptors in your brain and stomach etc... They put you under and when you wake up the hardest part is over. Its like a bell curve and they take you to the top of the bell and the rest is up to you. Iam in deep debt but that is better than dieing.

But anyway I felt like **** real bad lethargy and the runs for 1 week and now its been two weeks and my strength is coming back. I know it is not from the general anesthesia they give you, no way. Its the Oxy abuse because when I tried on my own I felt the lethargy and it was bad. I am still dragging, and my sleep is way off but Iam up to 4-5 hours now.

The main thing they tell you(they provide a lot of support and I have a lot of info if anyone is interested)is walk, get up and move around, take a shower, drink a lot of water and eat light the first week, no dairy! crackers, oatmeal, banana, pleanty of vitamines. But get out and walk even if it hurts so bad, because that is what I did and this is the 14th day, and I finally feel a turning point. The problem is that you dont wake up one day and your better, its like 3% each day so you really dont feel yourself getting better but you have to know that you are, just the little things in life like taking a normal ka ka was a big accomplishment after 10 days. Listening to music helps too and it actually is starting to sound great. When your on drugs nothing matters, not even music and thats sad.

You also need to re-build your endophins that is where the recipe helps, I think and renting a funny movie, try to laugh, laugh at yourself if nothing else.

My feet are killing me and my legs but the lethargy is going away each day. This oxycotin is bad news, it really takes over and starts to kill you slowly.

BUT KEEP MOVING, ITS LIKE WORSE THAN THE FLU BUT INSTEAD OF STAYING IN BED THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO WALK AND RESUME YOUR NORMAL DAY/NIGHT HABITS(the good ones) GET UP WALK TAKE A SHOWER, EAT LIGHT, REST, TAKE ANOTHER SHORT WALK, GET THAT BLOOD FLOWING!AND IT WILL CUT YOUR HEALING TIME IN HALF. WHAT DOSNT KILL YOU MAKES YOU STRONGER!

Lots of Courage to all.

[OxyDout]

you need to re-evaluate your situation, it sounds to me your doing everything right, stay positive, I firmly believe you can "will" yourself to do anything. You just bought a new home with your wife, your not in jail, your not on the street, I don't know if your using, but your still alive and are very articulate, don't kid yourself, your doing everything to the best of your ability. If you need to talk I will be here.

GWH

[hippy]

im good , iwent back to work in the painters union,
i am now runnimn a nice job with 5 guys at temple U, down in
philly. me and my wife just bought a new home out side of
plilly in the subburbs in warrington pa. to say the least it is very exciting. the fact that we found something real nice in the present housing market, we have been looking for 6 months and all we have seen has been junk for the prices they have been asking. everything is 50,000 more than it was just a year ago.

so how are you making out, i hope things are going well for you.
i know you have the answers to most of our problems , it's just putting them into action. the only day we can start that is always today.
today is always the answer.
i spent a lot f my life , saying i'll start that diet this sunday, or start getting in shape next month. seems like tomorrow never came in those sityation.
even writeing letters to addicts i know in jail. the only way i write them is to just do it when it comes to mind,
well i do write them so i must be doing somthing right.
seem s like the guy's in jail have a better outlook on life
than i do , on most days. when i write to them i have to let them knoew who died this month  or who over dosed ect.
talkt to you soon.

peace!!!!!!!!!!! michael h

[earlygrayce]

thank you very much for the info. take care of yourself.

[OxyDout]

thanks for the concern, I didn't watch the HBO special, I had watched the original when they showed the footage, the "americas bravest/ 9-11 special, and that absolutely crushed me, it made me think way too much, it just wasn't right, especially because I know he (pete) was either right above where the plane hit or right in the middle. I actually went to my counselor a couple of times after that, but I guess only time can heal what I can't handle right now. I know its a part of life and that I"m not by any stretch, the first person to lose a best friend and I'm certainly not the last but it doesn't make it any easier.... How have you been.

GWH

[Witchywoman]

Hi again grayce,
I started to have hearing problems mostly after I went off the vicodin.  Suddenly I started getting ringing in my ear, and a feeling of stuffinness in my ear, and noticed that I was not able to hear as well as usual.  That is when I went to get a hearing tesst and found I had measurable hearing loss.

I still deal with ringing in the ear. My Doc said it is not likely that my hearing loss will get better, but it is not likely to get any worse.

I really don't know what to say in answer to your second question. There is no way to predict if your hearing problems will get better, stay the same, or get worse. Not to alarm you, but the research I found says that sometimes it can get worse even after you stop abusing the meds. I haven't found anything that says it can get better.

Maybe your hearing problems are not related to the opiate abuse, and it will get better.  Have you asked your Doc what the prognosis is?
Most Docs have not heard about opiate hearing damage. I had to do a search on "vicodin and hearing loss" on the web, and print it out to show to my doc for him to believe me.
Try doing a web search on it. You'll learn a lot. It might scare you a bit though, sorry to say.

good luck and I hope your hearing gets better.
love,
WW