Another question...or two or three :)

[taperme]

So, I wrote yesterday and got some great responses regarding tapering off of norco. Since then, my husband decided to take the kids for a visit to his parents and I will be on my own this weekend. I'm wondering since I have two days alone if I should just take the plunge and go cold turkey. In other words, today would be my last day using any norco.

I was at the pharmacy picking up some allergy meds for my daughter and remembered a few things mentioned that might help...EmerganC, and 5HTP. Picked those up. What else is out there that would help me? If I go cold turkey, will I be functional by Monday? Hubby will be out of town next week and it will be all me for the rest of the week. I've had so many health issues recently I don't think I could get away with a "flu" cover story!

So, I guess my questions are...What are the pro's and con's of tapering vs cold turkey, and what can I do to prepare myself in either instance. I'm currently on 6 norco a day, down from 10. Did that step down pretty easily. I followed what a few people suggested and am not spacing the doses out so far or taking as many. Took 2 in the am and 1 this afternoon. We'll see...maybe only one this evening. One more question...I've got a prescription for xanax for anxiety that I use mostly when I fly. Would using it during this withdrawal period be helpful or stupid?

I am running around like crazy getting my kids and hubby packed and ready to go today, so I won't be back on the computer to respond till later this afternoon/early evening but I thank you all for your help and support in advance. It seems like a very special group around here.

[taperme]

So, are you saying I should try to go from the 5 I took today, to 3-3 1/2 tomorrow? Or wait to make sure I settle at the 5 for a few days? And what do you mean by spike? Thanks!

[Greatgreebo]

If you've been taking them responsibly and not taking more than prescribed or chewing them etc. you are probably only physically dependent. But it's always good to be vigilant of addiction....it will creep up on you and by the time you realize you are addicted, it's too late. Tapering down is definitely a great idea. Opiates actually lower you pain threshold and make your pain worse. Once you are off them for a while your pain will probably be a lot less. Don't go back to the opiates unless it's an emergency situation (ie you break your arm or are in a car wreck and get all messed up).

Instead of taking 2 in the morning...try taking only 1, then if you need it take another 1/2 after 4 hours, wait 4 more hours and take another 1/2 (if you need it), and then for bedtime only take 1. (or 1.5 if you are waking up feeling icky)  Taking 2 in the morning wil' slightly give you a 'spike' and that is what you want to avoid. You want just enough in your system so you don't get sick -but no more than that.
The above schedule will mean you are down to 3-3.5 pills.  Worse case scenario-if you are pretty ill in the a.m you can take 1.5 pills-but no more.  Do the above until you stabilize and are feeling normal- then definitely only take 1 in the a.m., 1/2 at lunch and 1 at bedtime.......once you acclimate bump down to 1/2 in the a.m., 1/2 at lunch, 1/2 at bedtime.......after a few days cut out the lunch pill............wait a few more days and cut out the evening pill..........a few more days and you are ready to jump off with very little discomfort.
Good luck and keep posting. Definitely stop taking 2 pills in the morning and 2 at night--you need to work on having just enough to feel okay but no more.

Stay strong and let me know how you are doing
greebs

[taperme]

Thanks for all the info! I appreciate it. I was up so late last night that I didn't wake up until almost 10. I took 2 then, took 1 at about 1:30 and haven't taken anything since because believe it or not, I haven't been watching the clock. I'm going to take 2 tonight and it looks like I'm ok with dropping from 6 to 5. As of now I feel fine...we'll see how it goes tomorrow. If I am ok tomorrow, I may drop another one on Monday. The medication that my doctor wants me to try is called naltrexone. It (ironically) has been used in high doses to help people get off drugs and with alcohol addiction. In VERY LOW doses it is used for a variety of things....MS, Rhuematoid Arthritis, Fibromyalgia, cancers. From what I understand, when taken in one low dose at bedtime,  it blocks the opioid receptors of the brain and causes endorphins to be lowered just during the time the medication is working. BUT when the medication comes out of your system in the morning, endorphin production increases...giving a higher endorphin during the day. This supposedly helps with a lot of things like: immune systems, chronic inflammation, pain. The catch is that since it blocks the opioid receptor, it will throw you into withdrawals if you are taking any opiates or if they are still in your system. You have to be opiate free for 14 days I believe before taking it. The ironic thing is that the doctor that prescribed it for me has no idea that I've been taking the norco...and didn't even tell me about not being able to take it. I found that out when I researched it myself. The good news is though, that I have cut down my norco from 10 a day to 5 (as of today), in about a week, maybe  10 days. Believe it or not, I had also been on 2 80 oxys a day as well as the norco (all prescribed, and taken as prescribed by a doctor that I am just realizing is too loosey goosey with the pain meds!) and did a very quick taper/ct about a month ago.
I am really glad I am doing this....it sort of *****, but at the same time I will be very happy when it is done with. I'm having a hard time though wondering if I now need to consider myself an "addict". I know for sure that I've been dependent on these pain killers, but I am not really sure that I've abused them. Anyway, I guess that is a whole other subject and I should probably spend my time worrying about getting off of this crap and not defining myself at this point.

[Greatgreebo]

take the pills with food-always take the GABA at night-probably take it around 8 p.m or so....and drink lots of Emergen-C through out the day. For the taper..Hmmmm...I think you should bump down to 5 pills a day.....do it for 3-5 days and then bump down again...as soon as you start feeling 100% normal on your dose that means you've acclimated and it's time to drop again.

Take 1.5 when you get up (7 a.m), take 1/2 at 10 a.m, take 1/2 at 1 p.m.,  take 1/2 at   4 p.m., take 1/2 at 7 p.m ,and take 1.5 at bedtime (10 pm-ish)...do it for 3-5 days-when you start to feel 'normal' drop the dose again.

You can drop 1/2 a pill for the wake up dose and 1/2 a pill at bedtime (total 4 pills a day)...anyway you get the drift....after a few days you can drop 1/2 to a whole pill again and move your doses farther apart....

I'll answer some of your other questions tomorrow. Good job on getting the vitamins etc. Start taking them now. Be sure to have food in your stomach. Pick up some yoghurt with the good bacteria (acidopholus and bifidus etc.) to help keep your intestines working well and your immune system also....you may get a touch of the scoots when you first drop your dose. The yoghurt with bacteria will help.  IF you are too sick to deal with everything you have to do (kids etc.) you can always just drop 1/2 a pill every few days instead dropping a whole pill. I think you will be okay dropping a whole pill at a time...maybe a little icky feeling at first but nothing debilitating-or you may deal with it just fine. Play it by ear though...you know you better than anyone.

Take care and try to take it easy this weekend. You really are doing the right thing. I'm so happy that you clued in to the potential problem before it became a problem. You will get through this and be the better for it.
Also--what is the non-narcotic pain med. that your doctor wants to put you on. Please let me know.
Stay Strong,
Greebs

[taperme]

Oh...I also stocked up on EmerganC and 5HTP. Now what to do with all of that stuff! :)

[taperme]

You guys are great! THANK YOU so much for all the input. Believe it or not, it is 1:00am and I am just now able to read all of your responses.I've been working my tail off on a volunteer school project for my daughters...so much for my big weekend off. I am going to print all of this out to look at in the morning when I am fresh. At any rate, I've decided to continue to taper this weekend. And I'm thinking maybe a bit more than I had planned. What would you guys suggest? Tomorrow was the day I was going to go from 6 to either 5 or 5 1/2 per day. Should I make a bigger drop? And if I am reading correctly, I should be keeping a steady dose in my system...not waiting till noon to take my first pill/s. But take when I wake up? Also I am a little concerned about the whole amino acid thing. I went to the store today and bought: GABA, L-Glutamine, L-tyrosine, EsterC, and a Mega Mineral. I already have a good B vitamin and a good D. Did I miss anything important? Do I start these aminos while I am tapering or when I am off of everything. And when do I take it all? I have a few things that I HAVE to do tomorrow, but I am hoping to spend a good part of my day reading these boards and trying to figure out what the amino thing is for and what it is all about. If any of you can just lay it out for me in REALLY simple terms I would really appreciate it. Also...wondering what is a realistic time frame for me to set for myself to be norco free? If I am at 6 per day now.  How many days should I go between drops in dose? By the end of this weekend I want to have a concrete schedule for myself on paper. The taper AND what I am doing for myself with these aminos. I think if I have a plan with a capital P I will be able to stick with it. Thank you all again...I'm going to try to get some sleep!

[Greatgreebo]

Use this weekend to taper down some...you will feel a little icky but should start to normalize come Monday-ish. You won't be incapacitated by doing the taper. Since hubby won't be around to help this next week I vote you do not go CT. You would be feeling pretty lousy come Monday and you would have no help.

Don't use the xanax during your taper. You should not have bad anxiety if you taper right. You can save the xanax for your jumping off day (when you have tapered to the point you are gonna stop taking pain meds all together). Overall, it should be fairly easy to jump off after you have tapered down. Use this weekend to get used to your lower dose in the taper plan. Just relax, watch some movies, read some books and enjoy some peace and quiet!!
Keep us posted how you are feeling over the weekend.

Greebs

[bmdad]

Honestly, just a weekend of cold turkey will not get you through the worst of it. For most days 3 and 4 are the worst. I do like your idea about making a bigger drop in your dose though. If you start that first thing in the morning you may be okay come Monday as long as it's not a huge drop. If your husband knows that you are taking pain meds, you could just tell him you've had enough and decided to stop ct over the weekend. Maybe by Wednesday or so you will be feeling a bit better. Just let him know you need all the support you can get. He has to realize that anyone that has been on pain meds long enough will become physically dependent on them. You never abused them so you should not feel ashamed at all to talk to him about it. You don't have to tell him the extent of your use unless you feel comfortable doing so.
Since you are taking 6 a day you could try and drop to 3 a day over the weekend if you don't decide to go ct. I would take 1 in the am, 1 in the afternoon, and one before bed. That would be a great start. You have gotten some great advice and a few different taper plans so just do what you feel comfortable with. We are all here to support you no matter what you decide. If you try a quick drop this weekend it may help you decide if you can go ct or not. If you feel too horrible by dropping your dose in half you will then know that maybe ct is not the way to go for you. But if you do go ct, the worst of the physical withdrawals will probably last about 5 days or so. The thing is the mental battle will last a bit longer and can be tougher for some. If you get a good mindset going in, it tends to make it a bit easier. If you are absolutely sure you are ready to be done and are motivated to do so, it makes a big difference.
Please let us know what you decide to do and post as much as you feel the need. We will all help keep you motivated and give you our advice and opinions on what to do. Everyone has their own opinions on things so just go with what you think will work best. I just like giving my opinion from personal experience but don't expect you to use it all if you don't feel like it's for you. I've done the cold turkey thing, a slow taper, and a quick taper so I can offer advice but everyone reacts differently to everything. I know when I did a quick 10 taper it really did help. I almost liked the quick taper better than the longer taper. But when I did the quick taper I wasn't working at the time. I did have to care for my kiddos and my son does have a disability so it had its challenges but I made it through. My wife is a teacher so she was home around 4 to take over. That's when I would go for a long walk and then relax by doing a puzzle or watching some movies to pass the time. Exercise makes a huge difference. It gets the endorphins moving which will get your mind back on track faster. I'm sure you've heard of "runners high". We get a good sense of well being from exercise. I know it can be hard to muster up the energy to do so, but force yourself. Trust me, I feel exercise is one of the most overlooked tools of recovery. I would also start the amino acid protocol asap. The sooner the better. It really does help.
Just get a plan together and do your best to stick to it. I know this weekend may be more of a trial than anything but once you decide what route you want to take it may help to type out your plan. I feel a plan is very important. Also, having it on paper seems to make everything easier to remember this making it easier to stick to. So I would type out your taper regime, your vitamin schedule, exercise routine, etc. It also helps by seeing what you have been accomplishing. It helps with motivation.
Best of luck and if you need anything at all, just let us know!

Brian

[trying2go]

If it sounded like I was saying the xanax can hurt you while you are going through opiate withdrawals thats not what  I meant I don't want  that to confuse you. I meant that the withdrawals from the xanax, if you get addicted to them,can kill you. The withdrawal from benzo's are dangerous. If you do decide to use them during your opiate withdrawals only use them very sparingly. Only if you cannot sleep or you get a really bad anxiety attack. I have had anxiety attacks an panic episodes since I was a teenager, so having them during withdrawals from hydrocodone has helped me. Anxiety is one of the biggest symptoms of opiate withdrawal.  Some other things that may help ease your discomfort is Immodium AD for diahreah. I found that the Immodium also helps some with the chills. Advil for aches and muscle pains. Excedrine works well if you get a bad headache, I Did it was one of the worst I've ever had. Orange Juice,crackers,water,green tea, Sprite. Avoid caffiene it can make your stomach hurt worse and will make you more anxious. Heating pad for back aches also helps when you get the chills. hot baths [lots of em]. Melatonin an herb you can get otc helps promote sleep. Valerian helps with the anxiety.

[TroubledDude]

Hi Taperme,

The Xanax will be a lifeline while you are in the midst of withdrawal. You will probably want to pick up some OTC stuff like Imodium (for diarrhea) and possibly an all-natural sleep aid. It sounds like you have a heavy week of responsibilities coming up without your husband their so you're probably better off continuing with the taper method. A better time to jump would be after you've tapered down a bit more and you can get four to five days where you can ditch your responsibilities. This site is a wealth of both support and information on what to expect. The people on here are great and will help you when you need it most.

God Bless,
TD

[trying2go]

Some say the xanax is bad because it could become another addiction, and one that can kill you in withdrawals, but I am using it during mine for sleep. I refrain from using it during the day unless i get a really bad panic attack. It helps tremendously at night though. I've got kids and i have  to get some sleep. If you have the will power to carry out the taper then I say it is a good idea, but if this is supposed to  be your weekend to get clean then you might consider a big jump on your taper by cutting your dose down really fast. Since you have the night off why don't you try going as many  hours as you can before you take another pill. If you make it to 7 pm then take a xanax take a hot bath and try to go to sleep. When you wake up take only 1\2 a pill for relief try to sleep as much as possible this weekend the more your asleep the less pills your gonna take and the xanax can really help you sleep through a lot of the wds.  Don't take more  than prescribed though. They are only a short term solution. You have to kinda play it by ear with your taper plan because everyone  is different. Some people find that they cannot taper because they talk themselves into taking the pills. For those cold turkey is the only way. If  you have the willpower then you will know when you have to have a pill and  when you simply want one. Only take one when you have to have it and only take a  1\2 a pill at time if you can. If you are doing the taper right you will Not feel high from the pills. If you are getting a high then you need to cut your dosage down to just enough to keep away the  severe wds. The thing about tapering is that it helps with the wds but it does nothing in the way of helping with the mental aspects of quitting. If anything it puts more pressure on you of thinking about them more. You will find yourself self talking saying kinda obsessing over the pills. Asking yourself questions like; how many should I take today and how often should I take them? Should I wait a little longer? Maybe It would be okay if I took an extra so i can catch up on this laundry? Its the addicts thought process that we have to ultimately change in order to be successful. This is the hard part. Wds  are the start, but you can pinpoint the length of time you will probably have to suffer. The mental part is the real challenge because you never know when it will subside. Just like losing a loved one the mental pain can linger on for quite a while. Eventually you will think about it less and the emotional wounds will scar over, but there will be times of weakness and those are the times you have to fight, really fight because there the  ones that will set you back to square one. You can get through  the Wds, without a  doubt i know you can, but prepare yourself for the mental wds so you can be successful. I'm with you, because I am going through this too. Best Wishes

[Radiostar55]

My Doc, told me to taper, but I knew if I had any in the house I would use them..Day 3 I flushed them all down the toilet. If you can get some sort of Valium to help the anxiety, Long Hot baths help and drink lots of water.  Exercise is good but you probably won't feel like it.. i'm 46 days clean today..If I can do it so can You  Keep Posting and Good Luck

G

[vicki595]

Yes...that sounds good,to me at least...try a little tighter taper and see how that goes.
You've done fine going from 10 to 6 per day. Just remember to taper evenly to prevent spikes.

And,yes,definitely wait to hear what the others say...very smart.

Vicki   xo

[taperme]

Thanks vicki...that helps. I will see what others have to say and go from there, but maybe instead of doing a total ct, I can use this weekend to do a little larger of a taper than I would if I had real life to deal with. Somehow I feel like I should take advantage of the few days I have to myself in a healthy way.

[vicki595]

Hi~  I would look at the Thomas Recipe and follow it closely...it has everything!

About the ct thing...I don't know,everyones different,but usually days 3 to 5 seem to be the worst so think it over carefully.  As far as Xanax,here's what I would do:  I'd take it only for anxiety during ct , not in any great amt.( like .25mg ) and then I'd get rid of it.  It can be a real bear in and of itself!

That said,if this were me,I'd continue the taper until my husband returned. Just to be safe.

Hope this helps~

Vicki  xo