Any words of wisdom for trying to taper over the holidays?

[lisabet]

Please help - I've relasped in a big way. The last few weeks I've tapered fairly successfully from 10-12 hydro habit a day down to 5 or 6 a day, plus cut way back on my Jack Daniel nighttime habit. Was actually starting to feel good about myself, then Thanksgiving rolled around, everyone piled in at my house for the holiday meal; a nice day, no bickering, yet I found myself in the bathroom time and time again swallowing pills; needless to say I'm back up to 10-12 again plus drinking again the last 3 nights. Seems like I just fall apart during the holidays when expectations are so high; spending time with family, trying to make the holidays special for my teenager. Does anyone have any suggestions how to make the holidays easier to get through?  If this comes across as sounding self-pitying, I apoligize.  I am just so disgusted and mad at myself. Thanks for listening to me vent. Love/Peace, Lisabet

[Rex1]

OK, so I have gotten so many positive responses to the challenge concept, that it is hereby declared a GO! (My follow up post will spell out how to build your taper schedule)

I have given this a lot of thought and here, in my humble opinion, are the key points to keep in mind.

----------------------------------------------------------
2003 SOBRIETY CHALLENGE - HOLIDAY TAPER PLAN -
Dec 1st - Start
Jan 1st (or sooner) - End
----------------------------------------------------------

The idea is that everyone here, as a group, start our tapering plan today, and we support each other in our efforts such that, by Jan 1st, 2003, we are all at a ZERO dosage with our drug of choice.

There are several key points that I have gleaned from everyone here, plus other sources:

1) Accept the fact that you will be in some pain. Deal with it in any way you can without narcotics! Notice that the 2003 sobriety challenge says nothing about being pain free! Accept the fact that you will be dealing with pain without pain killers by the end of the tapering process! There are so many weapons at your disposal - use them all. More on those in a follow-up post.

2) We are powerless over substance abuse - We cannot do it alone! This is the basic premise of AA,NA, ect. Asking for help from a doc, a spouse, or others here is not important - IT IS A REQUIREMENT! We should put our tapering plan down on paper or in a spreadsheet/calendar program and then share it with someone, so we will not deviate from it. I showed mine to my wife and said "Heres my plan, help me stick to it!" Letting a medical professional in on the plan is a great way to build an extra security net, and get advice from a pro, of which I am not.

3) Most (not all) agree that Tapering is easier than cold-turkey! Tell ourselves over and over - "If I don't cut my dose, day over day, week over week, what am I setting myself up for?"
The answer of course is something far worse, like in-patient detox, or a week of cold turkey. Which would we prefer? Tapering must be easier. See my next post for how to do the tapering schedule.

4) Your higher power wants to help. Will you let Him? This is potentially the most controversial subject for some here, so-reminder-this is just my opinion. However, all AA/NA programs use this as their core concept. God wants us to be sober, no? If you beleive that, then He already has a plan for your life, and all you have to do is ASK for help. Prayer works folks - I promise it does, and millions of people swear by it. Remember, in the entire history of mankind, it is only in the last 30 years that America and the world has kicked God out of our lives. Before that God was the underlying reason to be living, and was a key concept in the founding of the United States. In the last 3 decaded though, we have been told we can do it ourselves! And look at where we are, what we have become. God is there for you. Turn to face Him, an ask for help.

5) Use the Thomas recipe - it really works!

6) Do the opposite of what we have been doing while using. If we go to this street corner where our dealers are, do the opposite - go as far away as possible! If we go to three docs in one month, go to ZERO docs in one month. If we use at a friends, well is he our friend? Go somewhere else. In other words - let's throw our narcotics-enabling habits away starting right this instant!

7)Dedicate the month of December to this problem if possible. Think of all the things that we do during the holidays, and let's tell ourselves that unless it ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to do, this month, we're not doing it - NOT adding it to our plate of stuff to do. I know this will be difficult for some. But wherever possible, clear out the **** on your upcoming calendar, and write down the words TAPER TO ZERO in the December calendar in your minds. "This month my number one goal is BECOMING DRUG FREE BY January 1ST!"

8) Once we clear our calendars of unnecessary junk, and focus on Tapering to zero, now we need to stop focusing on it ;-0. Distract your mind and put it on something positive and stress free for you. Exercise, a good book, a movie series, relaxation exercise, ANYTHING! But don't sit around thinking about it, as Methman said "get moving!"

WE CAN SUCCEED TOGETHER GUYS!
------------------------------------------------------------
Think of the following analogy:

We are all in a giant dark pit, each of us having his or her own staircase leading upwards. Each staircase is close to someone elses, but you must climb your own staircase. Some us have staircases that start close to the top and are not steep at all, with easy-to-climb steps. Others have staircases that start almost at rock bottom, almost in pitch black darkness, and start out very steep with hugs steps. And each staircase is ever-changing, with the steps getting larger, then smaller, slippery, then moving left and right, then becoming straight, and easy. Someone may be starting to fall next to you, when their staircase starts moving or gets hairy - catch them and set them to climbing again.

All staircases, though lead to the same door at the top, from which comes this beautiful glistening sunlight, shining like nothing you have ever seen. On the top of the door is a sign that reads "YOUR LIFE". We can see the top and would give everything we own to get there. If we don't start climbing today, we don't move. But we can also see that the steps get easier near the top.

Some of us will not be able to make it up the huge steps without help and encouragement from the others next to us. Helping someone else up their staircase gives you added strength to climb your own, and we all want to walk through the door at the top on Jan 1st, 2003, or sooner. Those that reach that door sooner MUST help the others still climbing, doing everything they can not to fall over the edge, and then have to start over again.

Good luck and God's Power to all - I will have some follow up posts with details on how to build your taper schedule.

Time to reclaim our lives!

GO!

Rex

This is NOT my plan - this is OUR plan - Right?

Rex

[Rex1]

Here's some ideas on how create your taper schedule, keeping in mind that everyone's plan will be different.

Think of two anchor points:
--------------------------------------------------------------
START - Your dosage today
END - Your dosage on Jan 1st - ZERO
(Note, you may want to change the end date to something sooner. If so, build your schedule from today to whatever you pick as your end date)
--------------------------------------------------------------

Rather than think about this upcoming week first, go to Jan 1 and build backwards. You must decide, along with your doctor or person who is helping you, what that last week on your meds will look like, but it should be as low as possible, perhaps 1.5 or 1 pill/drug dose per day.

Example: .5 tablets of Vicodin three times a day.


Here's an example of a Vicodin schedule, again working backwards from Jan 1st, 2003. Adjust accordingly for Percs, Meth, ect!

--------------------------------------------------------------
December    22   23   24    5   26   27   28  
--------------------------------------------------------------
dose/day    2    2    1     1   1    1    .5

--------------------------------------------------------------
December    15   16   17   18   19   20   21
--------------------------------------------------------------
dose/day    3    3    2.5  2.5   2    2    2

--------------------------------------------------------------
December    8    9   10    11   12   13   14
--------------------------------------------------------------
dose/day    6    6   5      5   4    4    4

--------------------------------------------------------------
December    1    2    3     4    5    6    7
--------------------------------------------------------------
dose/day    9    9    8     8    7    7    6


OK, so there's an extra 3 days at the end of week 4 where you may want to be effectively at ZERO on these days, where many will be off of work, Dec 29th, 30th, and 31st. But you may need to use the days as a fudge factor, that is, either to accelerate or catch up if your drift from your schedule.

Summary points;

* Plug in your own numbers based on your two anchor points
* Build backwards from Jan 1st, 2003 to today.
* Design your schedule for a very slow taper during the final week
* Share this schedule with someone who will help you/force you to stick to it.
* Please let someone here now that YOU HAVE ACCEPTED! A post to I Accept might be good. That way, your committed....

CELEBRATE YOUR SUCCESSES HERE WITH EVERYONE ELSE!
You will be pleased to see that at the end of every week, you took less than the last week!!! You're winning! you will win!

Please post if you additional ideas, or items that have helped you succeed..

Good luck and God's grace to all!

Rex

[Rex1]

I Accept.

I start today!

Rex

[Rex1]

Dr. Horvath,

Please give us any suggestions you have on our plan, from a professional point of view.


Rex

[Bodymechanic]

I failed twice at tapering before I decided to get help.  I am doing a 5 day buprenx detox. I am on day two and it could not be easier.  Instead of sick, I feel good. I am sleeping better than I usually do on or off the usual drugs.  The nurses tell me that when the detox is over I will be almost completely over the withdrawals.  You might consider doing the same.

[theGolden1]

Lisbeth .... I would just "hold that line" for the holidays. I personally think it's a bad time to taper or withdraw. There is too much going on. I have to go back and find it on WebMed .... but we are only supposed to cut down 15% a week. I was advised to get a pill cutter. I think it would be wise to plan ahead for this. Don't feel bad .... just return to the lower dose and concentrate on your life. We can get clean if we really want to ... it's staying clean that is a challenge and that will take long range planning ..... First things first

For BodyMechanic ..... I am really curious. Is this 5 day medicine supposed to get you off of ultram as well? I don't mean to be sceptical, but 5 days dosen't seem long enough. At least not for ultram. If a medicine naturally takes 3 weeks to leave your system, how would a 5 day drug be able to do it?

[lisabet]

As always, you've come through with your compassion and common sense. I'm kind of confused about this Bup - Another poster, Mariposa seems to be taking it in an ongoing basis, but you are doing it for only 5 days?  I don't think it's available here in the south where I live; I'd really like to hear more about it.  You can respond here on the forum or e-mail me at ***@****.  Of everyone on this board, you are one of the ones that I feel knows their stuff and I always read all of your posts. Your matter-of-fact information is always welcome.  Thanks, Lisabet  (And congrats on your ongoing recovery; I hope the Bup helps you on your road to recovery.)

[lisabet]

Hi - thanks for your post; you're right - the holidays are probably not a good time to try to do anything drastic. I've taken about 12 hydros today - but don't have any JD, and I'm going to try not to buy any tomorrow. If I don't have it in the house it doesn't bother me, but if it's here it's constantly calling my name. I'm going to try to cut back again on the hydros tomorrow.  I've been reading Rex's posts about tapering and quitting by Jan. 01 - but I'm afraid I can't accomplish that anytime soon. It's too scary to even think about; too much pressure.  I AM intrigued by the Bup treatment; I'm definitely going to check into that. Goldie, thanks for the reply; means a lot to me, and good luck to you also.  Love/Peace, Lisabet

[Rex1]

You don't have to quit completely if you don't want, although that would be ideal.

The concept is simply to make a committment along with the rest of us to accomplish a set goal. So for you, if you ca'nt get to zero, how about to 25% or even 50% of your dosage today.

You can do that right? And so at the end of the month you will have made real progress..

Please join us...

Rex

[lisabet]

Rex---you are such a cheerleader (and I don't mean that in a bad way!)...smile   I admire your conviction, and your willingness to try to help others.  However, I don't think I can committ to your January 1st detox.  I am truly glad at your progress, but I can't even START seeing that in the near future for myself. I think I may need to see a professional, although in this area, I honestly don't know where to start.  I would like to take Bodymachinics advise and try to start a Bup program, but don't know enough about it just yet to commit.  I'm a single parent, and so afraid.  No one in my immediate circle of friends or family knows of my problem.  Everyone looks at me as the "strong one"...if they only knew.  But your posts inspire me, and I'm gonna try.  Love/Peace, Lisabet

[Rex1]

That "strong one" thing - I think that is a very common trait amongst us addicts. My whole family calls me, and immediately start unloading all of their problems on me because they think I am "the strong one". DO they ever wonder if I have problems? Oh noooooo.

I think it may have something to do with pressure - I know it does for me. I feel pressure with my job and supporting my family and all, and the pills are a way to not feel the pressure, if even for a hour or so.

I think we would all be suprised if we knew how many here were actually considered to be the silent responsible types...

Anyway, I respect your wishes - let me know if I can help, even if all you need is cheerleading. Seeing a dr can only help.

One last temptation though. Imagine if what you thought you couldn't do, you actually can do! Damn the torpedos - full speed ahead I say.

Just go for it - we'll help.

Rex

[tlb63]

I have started today......

[Bodymechanic]

Golden

I found myself in a situation similar to your where I had been using ultram long enough to develope an addiction.  I anticipated that this might be a problem and I stopped taking ulram for a month prior to this detox. During that time I used hydrocodone never(almost) exceeding 60-80mg a day. Today I am on day 4 of the detox and I woke up this morning knowing the worst is over.  I still have 2 more days of buprenorphine left so I expect to be even better by then.  Unless I am badly mistaken, this has been by far the easiest drug withdrawal I have ever done.

Lisabet

Places that use buprenophine are not easy to find but they do exist even in the south. Your computer and telephone will help you locate one.  Post your state and maybe someone on the board will know of an office near where you live.

[theGolden1]

Thank you so much for your honesty regarding ultram withdrawal.
How many vicodin pills did you need to get off ultram? 60 to 80mil is how many vicodins and at what strength? Just trying to figure out what I will need. I'm taking 150mil of ultram a day.
This wednesday I'm seeing my doctor and laying it on the line .... I hope it dosen't backfire. I'm just going to ask to change to vicodin. He did it once before ... but I didn't want to keep using it. Anyway .... sounds like it took a month for you to get off ultram. Good luck to you ... treasure your sobriety.
Lord knows it's a precious gift .... Goldie

[falling]

Thanks for posting to my post way the heck down there on the board about firocet.

I like your idea. I am not ready to go totally off, and cold turkey I don't think is good for what I take, but I do committ to taking 25% less starting today.  It's a start.

Thanks for caring and also to everyone else in here.

[Bodymechanic]

Substituting lortab for ultram may be a option. At least with the lortab you know what to expect concerning the withdrawal period. You might want to hold off on full disclosure to your doctor. The reasoning behind the change may be lost to him. Consider simply telling him that the ultram are not working for you and you want to move to the stronger medication, lortab. If you stay at no more than 30mg a day of lortab your withdrawals should be minimal. You may be able to drop to 20mg a day since lortab is a stronger medication.  As you know, the higher you go the harder it is to detox.

[galawyer]

Hello

I've been reading this site for a long time and have posted a few times.

I quit oxycontin cold turkey yesterday and feel relatively good today.  I was using 200mg/day for peripheral neuropathy pain.  I still have the pain but decided to try things without the opiates.

Question:  Will I feel like **** tomorrow?  Is today just a reprieve from above?

Thanks

[Bodymechanic]

There are some people who don't experience withdrawal syndrome. If you are one of those who don't, I hate you. Just kidding.  A 200 mg a day oxycontin habit is a very heavy addiction.  It is the equivalant of 40 percocet per day.  Oxycontin is long acting drug and may not be out of your system.  Over the next 24 hours you will definately be getting some feedback if you have a habit.  I hope to god that you don't. At that high of a dose it will probably be rough for a while. Does your doctor know you are doing this?

[galawyer]

Yes, my doctor knows.  I just got back from an appointment with him.  He thinks I'm not able to go cold turkey considering the level at which I was taking.  He gave me a prescription for Ultram (?) which I have not filled yet.

I did not realize I was taking so much in terms of percocets.  At least I did not have all the Tylenol.

Thanks for answering and I will let you know how I feel in the morning.

[Rex1]

How's everyone holding up on the tapering schedule?

Please post of you need support, prayer, or if you are just doing really well. This will inspire the rest of us!

Rex

[theGolden1]

What do I tell my doctor about Lortab? Does it have less tylenol in it? I mean less than vicodin? I just hope he dosen't perscribe some fancy **** I've never heard of. I'd rather have the tried and true. I used to take 3 vicodin a day last time I was on it ... but I guess you don't think that will cure my ultram withdrawal. I'll do my best. What will be, will be. Gee, I'm such a control freak .... plus, I wish I could be honest. The truth of the matter is that ultram works great for what I have .... I just hate being maintained on a drug. Maybe it's far fetched, but what if something happened and I couldn't get my medicine? Like a natural disaster or a war or whatever? I'd be in trouble! My ideal life would be to use tylenol or vicodin "as needed" only if and when I couldn't work through the pain. But maybe that is wishful thinking. I'm one of the lucky ones. There are people that have Fibromyalgia alot worse than I do. Well ... lets see how things go tommorrow. At this rate he'll be putting me on anxiety medicine (ha ha) BTW ... how are you feeling? Getting straight so quickly has got to be akin to landing on the moon(smile) my very best to you, Goldie

[bare]

Okay, REX, this is bare, you have posted to me and I feel a need to contribute back. I would like to join with those to be completely clean by January. I have already begun. I may not have the range of abuse that some of us have but I am struggling with my withdrawls. I was told that I probably have a low tolerance for prescription drugs. At the highest self dosage prescribed I have taken 2 to 3 most often, recently 3 to 4 tablets that were 7.5mg in stregnth every 24 hours. I used for almost two years, safe in the knowledge that no drug addict could be so controlled in the ways of abuse. I went cold turkey so to speak (as you know rex) three days ago. DECEMBER 3rd!! It is not pleasant. It is uncomfortable. I feel twitchy. Nauseous. Headache. Sweating. Emotional. But hey good news, my BOWELS came back. This was two days ago. Mentally I was scrambling for an alternative. I realize there is none. There is only a driving force in me to quite. Forever. I will find a way for the pain. Meditation? Something. I did not sleep well my  first and second night but that whole second day my twitch was not quite as fierce, I was only moderately uncomfortable, I ate some bread and toast for the stomache loops. It helped. My headache was mild. The chill/sweats abated somewhat. Yes, my bowels are still here. But everybody needs to know this, when I got up this morning to take my daughter to school I have not felt air so crisp, a sun so bright, in such a long time. I had all the aches but it was as if upon waking this morning a realization came. I am just that much closer to beating this. Do you all remember when you first started using and during the middle of the high things seemed almost surreal even though you realized it was just the norm? The appeal for me was that feeling of frozen time. Well guess what? As I was driving I was looking about myself realizing that I was experiencing that same HIGH perspective because I was NOT high on anything. Good luck sounds too trite for something so serious so I will say instead, GOD SPEED. Prayer does help. God will guide you during your trials... but even forgiven sin must purchase a price. So everybody, let us suck it up. We can and will! I will post daily for a refresher in stregnth. Thanks. Sincerely, S

[Rex1]

Ok - welcome aboard - by my count we have somewhere between 8-12 officially particpating in the 2003 sobriety challenge.

Again it was just an idea I was kicking around, that we could all through the fire together.

Please post your result on Dec 8th with everyone else, supporting those who need it, asking for suport if you need it.

Way to go - you're winning. Beware of setbacks and temptations - you know they're coming...

Rex

[Chezz2]

Lostinga,

Let us know how it went. I assume CT off of 200MG oxycontin [b]SEVERELY[/b] caught up to you the next day, if not the 3day. Oxycontin is a long acting opiate. Most symptoms won't appear until the 2 day.
I hope you are doing alright. Let us know how you are doing.
Chezz

[Rayven]

Well Here I am, another Ocy case. This is my first post. I'm scared to death of the running out of this drug. I have stopped before, but searched the street and found more. I get so much done and my paIN IS GONE. I'm very confused now at to what to do. I need someone to talk toooooooo.

[SilvrJD]

I'm new here (1st post), although I have been reading all week and found some very good things written here, I want to thank you all for this. I am stil hurting and it's been 7 days since i last took my fix of 7-10 vicodinES/day.Addictions have always been apart of me. I'm 43 and was 1st admitted into a 28-day treatment for alcohol 18 years ago. Have had some good sobreity at times , longest 7 years.NOW , today the pages have turned and the 5 month long addiction to pain meds due to an injury at work led me to this forum and for that , I am grateful. If and I say IF your an addict. How does the tapering off 1 pill every 2 weeks apply. Once addited , the victim falls to the addiction never the other way around . This evil that has come upon us started out innocent and boy did it feel good relieving the pain in my back. Then my wife started taking  them who infact I met in AA. We had 2 different doctors giving us over 300 ES's a month. Blah, that wasnt enough. I am now facing a felony charge of forgery handing in 2 fake scripts. Well, thats not until January,so I certainly can't afford to look at that now for I know that day will take care of itself with Gods help ofcourse.
The pills ran out and I for one didnt want to spend Christmas under any power then of the beliefs that i have. The 6 kids that we have here won't be seeing as many gifts maybe seeing that I couldnt make it into work all week and most of last week.
Joy and peace comes from within and NOT from the out. I first started my detox with booze and my the look on my wife and kids faces , I knew that wasnt gonna work. inpatient detox , me?  no way.. been there done that w/ alcohol 2 many times. So I appologize this is way too long and i'll try to make it quik. I did the Thomas Recipe, but I was missing the number one ingredient until last night . my doctor, who I told I was finished taking pain medication and explained I hadnt slept in 3 days and nights prescribed me 7 10mg valiums. So ATLAST I was able to sleep and probably is the reason I finally was able to post here. thx all  peace

[SilvrJD]

I'm new here (1st post), although I have been reading all week and found some very good things written here, I want to thank you all for this. I am stil hurting and it's been 7 days since i last took my fix of 7-10 vicodinES/day.Addictions have always been apart of me. I'm 43 and was 1st admitted into a 28-day treatment for alcohol 18 years ago. Have had some good sobreity at times , longest 7 years.NOW , today the pages have turned and the 5 month long addiction to pain meds due to an injury at work led me to this forum and for that , I am grateful. If and I say IF your an addict. How does the tapering off 1 pill every 2 weeks apply. Once addited , the victim falls to the addiction never the other way around . This evil that has come upon us started out innocent and boy did it feel good relieving the pain in my back. Then my wife started taking  them who infact I met in AA. We had 2 different doctors giving us over 300 ES's a month. Blah, that wasnt enough. I am now facing a felony charge of forgery handing in 2 fake scripts. Well, thats not until January,so I certainly can't afford to look at that now for I know that day will take care of itself with Gods help ofcourse.
The pills ran out and I for one didnt want to spend Christmas under any power then of the beliefs that i have. The 6 kids that we have here won't be seeing as many gifts maybe seeing that I couldnt make it into work all week and most of last week.
Joy and peace comes from within and NOT from the out. I first started my detox with booze and my the look on my wife and kids faces , I knew that wasnt gonna work. inpatient detox , me?  no way.. been there done that w/ alcohol 2 many times. So I appologize this is way too long and i'll try to make it quik. I did the Thomas Recipe, but I was missing the number one ingredient until last night . my doctor, who I told I was finished taking pain medication and explained I hadnt slept in 3 days and nights prescribed me 7 10mg valiums. So ATLAST I was able to sleep and probably is the reason I finally was able to post here. thx all  peace