Anyone tried or know about the waismann method.

[TysonRed]

I was just wondering if anyone out there has or knows someone who has experienced the Waismann Method???  Im wondering about its success rates, I saw somewhere that women after a year supposedly had 65% success rate, but didnt find anything on men. I know that Waismann is an inpatient procedure usually lasting 5-7days, your induced into withdrawl after being put under anesthesia, then given sedatives and sleeping pills when you wake up and are transferred to ICU. Im curious to hear if anyone knows of the success rates involved, how the success differs from drug to drug, I would think the success rates of  someone on hydrocodone would be greater than that of someone on methadone, oxycontin. Now I also would think that amounts of medication and its abuse would have to be factored in and their personal medical info. So if anyone out there has been through it please respond, if you know of someone that would be great, or if you've looked into yourself what have you found? Just so others know, Im looking into it for friends that may be able to benefit greatly from it, one friend in particular is on methadone and can't stop. He has no insurance so his care has subsequently has been less the adequate. But he does have family members that could fully afford to pay, if they were made somewhat certain that it would be successful. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance, I'll be sticking around to see if I can get any responses.

[dominosarah]

Please really do your homework on this.  There are some real issues with this and some havent made it thru.  If it sounds to good to be true it usually is.       sara

[avisg]

I dont  about waismann specifically  but I have not heard much good about rapid detox in general I will post an article I found on it not to mention it is SO expensive.

The dangers of rapid-detox **************
The Ontario Coroner's Office is investigating a second death connected to a chain of ************** clinics that offer a a highly controversial treatment that has divided addiction experts. So-called "rapid detox" treatment uses a cocktail of medications to speed through the withdrawl process while the patient remains under sedation. As part of the procedure, the patient is implanted with a pellet of the opiate antagonist Naltrexone to prevent them from having intense cravings or obtaining any "high" from opiates once the treatment is complete.

At first glance this sounds like it could be a great procedure -- why suffer through weeks of withdrawl symptoms when you can get through the worst of it in a few hours while unconscious? However, some experts claim it is biologically impossible to fast-track withdrawal and that the dangers of the procedure are not worth the potential payoff.

The Toronto Star has a very detailed investigation in to the latest death, including a lot of background information on the procedure for those who may be curious about pursuing it. It looks to be somewhat of a last-resort option, but it seems to me it won't do you much good being clean if there's a good chance that you'll die in the process

[TysonRed]

Yes Ive heard of the deaths involved and also that those deaths were through rapid detox in outpatient facilities (clinics), supposedly the waismann method is only done in Tel Aviv and two doctors in southern california. I know of the rapid detoxes in michigan that have had deaths, one of those outpatient rapid detox clinics was closed down do to the lack of safety procedures involved. The represenatives from the Waismann sent me an email claiming they are a far cry above those other outpatient rapid detox clinics. They use an actuall hospital for the procedure and then the person is actually transferred to the ICU for 3 days of monitoring. So I have to believe somewhat that the waismann method that is only done in one location(so.ca), is different from those other clinics that perform rapid detox and the person is sent home the same day or the next. In fact the waismann people were quick to dismiss these other rapid detox clinics, saying that because they were done on an outpatient basis that they are not nearly as safe or credible in their claims. Thank you for responding, Im hoping to get more info, I really do have a friend that it may be his only chance, I hardly get to see him anymore because Im currently on suboxone so I dont cant be around those who are still getting high. He's constantly back and forth from heroin, crystal meth...then back onto methadone and abusing opiates..hes just way out of control and his family reached out to me to try and help, so I have to look into every option. I understand there is a chance for death, there is that chance in every procedure on this earth that involves anesthesia, and its sad to hear that these rapid detox procedures are being done in clinics on an outpatient basis thats just plain irresponsible. Thanks again!!!

[avisg]

Hummm I think nautyone knows alittle about waismann clinic I will PM her and have her post if she does .

[Dezdon]

Anyone know how much this treatment method cost?
peace,
-Dez

[avisg]

I have heard around 10 k but I have never looked into it myself so don't quote me on it .

[TysonRed]

Its around $16,000, very expensive. There are other rapid detox centers that are around $6000 but from my research are far less safe, and are done on an outpatient basis. According the waismann people there is a huge difference between the other rapid detox facilities and what their procedure entails. With what Ive learned about rapid detox in general, I would never do rapid detox unless it was with Waismann, others are done in clinics or offices and you are monitored for maybe 24hrs before release and thats it. As with Waismann your in a hospital, a total evaluation is done, morphine is administered to curb withdrawls, your then placed under anesthesia for around 1hr and a precipitated withdrawl is induced while your under. When you wake up they give you the sleeping meds and sedatives, then over to the ICU etc. Thats a big difference then going into a clinic being put under anesthesia, thats just irresponsible to me, not having the proper facilties in case of problems arising. Im not totally sold on Waismann being proper, its still an experimental procedure and somewhat contoversial in its methods. Anyways thank you Avisg for all your help, if you could pm nautyone that would be great, thanks again.

[mtgoat911]

the closest i have been to w.m is a revia script
this drug is used during rapid d
it made me really sick, i have seen 2 people fo through r.d
it looked like they were being tortured
a guy i used to get pills from tried r.d.
as soon as he woke up he was begging for narcotics
there is another site that has a r.d forum,
tons of people who have done it
every thread i have read from people who have done this states that it caused them pts
the cost will depend on where you go...

[TysonRed]

I guess what I really need to know is, what exactly is the difference in other rapid detox facilities and the facilities used by waismann method. As I undertand it, there are only two or three doctors, only in So. California, that do the waismann method. Now is the waismann method different in what medications are administered as to other rapid detoxes? I know the aftercare and monitoring are very different, pertaining to being in an actual hospital and ICU, would seem to be much more safe in case of complications. Im wondering if all rapid detoxes use the same method and just the aftercare is different when it comes to waismann. Or are the meds the same, method the same, but waismann offers a hospital and intensive care after the procedure is done. All this is purely for information purpose, trying to research all methods of recovery from addiction. Thank you all...I'll keep up the search!!!

[godezzofchaos]

I once spoke to a person that had gone through the rapid detox and said it was the most horrifying experience. He said that what they fail to tell you is that you have to wear a diaper for a month because you cannot control yourself and that you still feel like **** afterwards....he was telling me this story while standing in line at the methadone clinic.  Says it all.  

Has anyone ever read anything about IBOGAINE. it is suppose to be some miracle cure as well....just curious.

[redrodeo]

NO.No.no.no.no.no.
There will never be a softer easier way. But I am a recovering herion, methadone addict for over 12 years It can be done.
About 10 years ago I had a friend(in Texas) that was on methadone for a long time and was scared to death of withdrawal. Actually this guy was a co-adminstrator of the alcohol-drug hospital. So they did it in Fredericksburg, he stroked out w hile in process,
had to be intubated, and after two weeks they turned the machines off, he was brain dead, end of the line.
Even if the concept worked what are you going to do for maintaince. Stopping is only part of the problem. Addiction and alcoholism are horrible problems. But you got to face your demons sometime.
Red

[Nicki143]

Hey, I just wanted to inform you that my mom read an article real recently, and the clinics in Southern California is where I live by the way are both closing. They have one in the city of Garden Grove, and I'm not sure where the other one is located. I couldn't tell you when or why for that matter, but obviously it's probably because there's too much danger involved. Well that would be my guess anyway. I do remember seeing a phone number so if you want i'll ask my mom about it when I see her tomorrow morning. How does that sound? Oh and the procedure costs 18,500 to be exact. That's really insane!!! Who in the hell has that kind of money anyway???  
                                           Good Luck to you,
                                                 Nicki

[Nicki143]

Oh yea, I'm assuming if you don't want to wait until tomorrow, you could probably google it too

[SableZen]

Like the others, I would encourage you to really do your homework on it. It's not just that there is a risk of death and/or other complications... you also need to understand that rapid detox doesn't address addiction as a disease. When physical detox is over, psychologically, the person is still addicted. Rapid detox *only* addresses physical withdrawal - which is a very small part of addiction and recovery.

In the big picture, it's only going to be helpful towards recovery if the person is mentally ready to quit anyway. Which if that is the case, it's much safer to just go through a medically supervised/supported taper or detox (without risking life/health with rapid detox) in my opinion. And if it isn't the case and they aren't ready to quit anyway, it's a pointless risk of health/life.

As far as I understand it, Waismann is simply a bit safer because when complications occur, they can be treated immediately simply because you are in an intensive care setting. That doesn't save everyone however, and there have been deaths associated with the unnecessary procedure.

[TysonRed]

I like to hear if anyone who has used waismann or knows of someone who has, what their experience was. I understand it the same way, waismann is alot more safe than other rapid detox clinics, percisely because the aftercare and monitoring that is done through intensive care units. Trust me I did alot of research before posting the original question, and Im not interested in other rapid detoxes, just the waismann. Now it may be that they are the same except for the aftercare part, but I still dont have that answer. I'd be interested to hear if waismann has had any deaths? What are their particular success rates after one year? This would only be an absolute last resort for a friend, if his other avenues are not successfull. I thank everyone for their posts, but Im still looking for someone who has particular information on the Waismann method itself. In no way am I advocating rapid detox as a cure all, just wondering about the different methods used, and what the difference is between them. Thanks again, and good luck to all.

[SableZen]

Yeah there have been deaths with the Waismann Method (if I'm not mistaken, Waismann is usually in Israel). He's trained other doctors here to perform the treatments in any case - there have been death/negligence cases against at least one of those doctors in California.  

[SableZen]

Oh and as far as success rates goes... the Waismann Method treats physical dependency to an opiate and so is not usually presented as a treatment for addiction (I'm sure you know the difference between the two). So when you see any success rates, they talking about success in treating physical dependency and not addiction, unless they specifically state otherwise.

I don't believe there have been any published scientific/independent studies regarding success rate for the treatment of addiction that included rapid detox compared to traditional methods.

[TysonRed]

Oh finally thank you! Thats unfortunate but Im glad to hear the truth about the Waismann, and yes the doctor who invented in does it in Tel Aviv, and he has trained two doc's to do it in some hospital in So.CA.  Thats all I was looking for was what the deal is with Waismann, they've sent me many emails stating how different they are, and not to compare them to traditional rapid detox. Of course when I asked I never did get an answer on whether they've had patients die, but I did get them to say that"...women had a success rate of 65% after one year, compared to 5-10% to that of traditional detox methods." Really I thank you all, I kinda got frustrated when I was getting just info telling me to read up on rapid detox, I had done all that, wasnt interested in any rapid detox besides the waismann method. If I were actually considering this for myself, Im not, but If I were I would want the absolute best care possible, in the correct facility(a hospital), wouldnt ever try to skimp on the costs when it comes to my health. Thank you really Sablezen you got mostly what I was looking for, so case closed, I guess they all are still way to experimental to be reliable. Good luck and God bless you all!!!

[HenryS354]

Please read my new topic regarding the Weissman method and Ultra Rapid Detoxification....

[BellaDawna]

I know you posted the question about Rapid Opiate Detox back in August, but I just came across this site.  OK, from the horses mouth- Yes, I did this form of detox in 2001.  Would I recommend it to anyone?  No, not even my worst enemy.  I live in Seattle. I did all the research on different types of treatment, and thought this sounded great.  I read all the testimonials by supposed people who had done it before and thought how bad can it be, it takes a few days and pow, Im fixed, & can get back to a normal life.  Well, It didn't work out that way.  I went to a clinic that looked to be the real deal, very nice, clean, etc.  The price at that time, was $5000 cash!!  I met with a guy who said he was the councelor of the clinic, he asked me all types of questions, said he would talk with the doctor, and would let me know if they thought I would be a good canidate for this procedure.  I heard back from him the next morning, he said they could get me in to the clinic for the procedure in 4 days.  He also said I would have to bring in a $1500 deposit right away to hold the spot. (like they had people lining up) So I got the money, and took it to the clinic.  At this time, I actually met the Dr. as well.  All I can remember is he looked like a short version of Gene Wilder, (seriously)  And so I made my appointment.  I arrived at the clinic that morning 4 days later at 7am.  The Doctor came out immedietly asked me if I wanted a sedative, which I replied yes, (I forgot to mention, I was told I would not be able to take any more of my opiate of choice after midnight the night before, (I was a very heavy user of oxycontin, so I was already going thru withdrawels), The next thing the Dr. wanted was the remaining $3500.  They took me into the small, steril, type operating room around 8:00am, a nurse arrived, the Dr. gave me another shot of the sedative, so I was all good with everything.  The Dr. explained to me that after I was put under, they would be putting a breathing tube through my mouth to breath for me while the procedure was done.  OK, now it really gets bad.  Once the procedure was complete, they tried for a long time to wake me, I almost didn't wake up, I almost died. That is the honest to God truth.  It took several people to get my body out to this little room outside the operating room, that had a small bed, a little desk and a TV.  How do I know all of this?? you may ask. I just kinda rememberd hearing all this yelling and confusion, and I asked questions the next day when I was able to mumble a few words. They laid me in that bed at what I found out later was 11:00am.  I was completly out of it.  I have never felt as bad as I did, I couldn't stay awake, and I could not talk, nothing came out.  I just laid there. Thru that night, and the next morning, I beleive there were two different nurses that sat there with me.  The Dr. only came back to check on me once that evening, and then the next morning when I was told I had to leave the clinic.  I just remember laying there thinking I was going to die, and almost wishing I would. I had to pee so bad, but couldn't walk.  The nurse finally got me into a rolling chair, that had a poddy on it. I slept on and off all night, when I wasn't sleeping, I was staring at the wall.  I will never forget that ordeal.  The next morning, I felt exactly the same, but they said I had to leave, they had made arrangments with my same girlfriend that had dropped me off.  They told her to pick me up the next morning at 9am.  I was in no condition to do anything, not even walk, but this so called miracle physician, and the other guy were more than happy to help carry me to her car.  I was sick to death, throwing up, and had a very high blood pressure and was feeling 1000x worse than when I got there by a long shot.  My girlfriend took me out to my Moms house cause she didn't know what else to do- I seriously could not walk or talk.  Although my Mom kinda new I had a drug problem, she didnt know to what extent. When she saw me, she was horrified.  My Mom took care of me for over a week, until I could get food in me, and get a little strengh going, and finally walk.  I still felt awful, like a had a deathly flu, but I was able to function a little.  What finally helped me get better??  More oxycontin-  The minute I was able to get my hands on some, I took several and chewed them up, then I felt better.  So there is your first hand story of how Rapid Opiate Detox works.  The Dr. I went to, was board certified, he also thought he was God himself.  Oh and by the way, that clinic closed not long after that. This procedure is now banned in the State of Washington.  I beleive the Government is shutting these places down most everywhere in the U.S. It doesn't matter whos method it is, or what these people are saying, take it from me, its a waste of your money, and could cost you your life.
I learned my lesson the hard way, but at least Im still here to talk about it.  Put it this way, if there was such a program like this that would actually help people detox without all the withdrawl symptons, there would lines and lines of people everywhere waiting to have it done. Also, if the procedure had such a high success rate, Im sure there would be some sort of government assistance across the United States.  It would be a hell of a lot cheeper than paying for all the resources they have out there now trying to win the war on drugs.  There are so many sick people out there that need help.  Like the old saying goes, If its to good to be true, it probably is.  So thats my story, hope it helps, even if just one person !  Dawn

[michael1955]

if you pay  $5000 for an outpatient procedure that costs $18,000 elsewhere, and elsewhere is performed in an ICU with a five day stay, you can't compare the two.  This is your life, you get what you pay for.  Imagine the actual costs involved with a five day hospital stay, a procedure room, ICU and ICU nurses, including the doctor's fee and medications, not to mention the pre-examination tests.  Lets get real here.

Michael

[Mortysmate]

Wow, im reading some weird stuff here! well, i underwent rapid detox at Waismann, and have none of the horror stories quoted here. basically a few years after getting addicted to Vicadin post surgery, i was taking over 200mgs of Oxycontin just to prevent withdrawals.My life became a miserable cycle of weening, suboxone, withdrawal and deceit for bloody years. I hid it from my wife who thought i just had recurring flu whenever it got really bad. I would wake up soaked in sweat as i hadnt had any Oxycontin for a few hours. Anyway, im sure you all know how this can feel. So one day my wife found out and contacted the Waismann institute. I will be objective here, but its hard as i basically think it was a miracle..Some intelligent posters stated that the Waismann method doesnt treat addiction, just physical dependency.while this is true, they offer a post treatment facility ( i went for a while) where they offer meetings, therapy etc. Also, in my case, i dont think it was an addictive personality that got me hooked, it was just the highly addictive opiates themselves..I think once you become dependent, ANYBODY can get trapped. Anyway, i was full of shame when we went, and hyper-sensitive to anyone that seemed even slightly judgemental.I did not experience anything loke that the entire time.I was treated with more respect and empathy than i felt i deserved, but that gave me great peace of mind and gratitude. The procedure itself i have little memory of ( yeah!) and everyone was great. i remember asking when they were going to do it and they said it was already done. The worst thing was it took a little while to have solid stools again, and that i felt weak for a while. The doctors said this was due to my bowels not used to operating un-drugged for so many years..I did NOT have to wear diapers!! i am sorry if some had different experiences, but i can only assume these are rare. When i was in the aftercare facility ( loved the jacuzzi!) i met several others in various stages of post procedure. They all seemed very relieved that opiates no longer was destroying their lives.It was great to see such a cross section of humanity starting to plan on how to take back their lives. This happened in July 07 and im now ( at 43) fighting Muay Thai and working out ( neither of which i did previously). All i can say is that it worked brilliantly for me, and i urge you to do the research as i did. I am so thankfull i cannot describe it. Whenever i feel down at all, i just look at my daily planner with all the desperately endless graphs i drew trying to ween off of oxycontin, or glance at my arms and not see sweat dripping off them, and i feel pretty damn good..I hope each and everyone of you fighting this soul destroying dependency find the courage to address this, and The Waismann Method resoundingly worked for me..

[specwolf]

how do we know this is a real story, and not some well thought up fantasy that some doctor at the clinic posted to get some business??? ok, For one.. I understand that its "Rapid detox";However, I was on suboxone for 2 years and withdrew for months when I came off... U cant honestly tell me that someone on meth, or sub for years can feel like they did before they even new what pain pills felt like.. bullsh*t.. im not buyin' it... And the anxiety and depression afterwards(that is extreemly severe for some patients, and that alone is enough to cause them to use again) is all gone and ur happy!? Again, bullsh*t

[mr.lucky66]

These types of detoxs work sometimes but mostly fail and can be disasterous. It that concept of trying to fool your body and it usually doesn't work. They put a diaper on you and put you under and try to speed you through withdrawal. It's a crapshoot if it works or not and only seems to work some of the time. It's too much money for these mixed results.

[michael1955]

"These Types of Detoxes"....is lumping all rapid detox procedures together...Waismann is one of the only rapid detoxes done in an Intensive Care Unit, not a doctor's office, by a board certified anesthesiologist.  You must compare the individual results of each treatment center, and not lump them together.  With regards to being perfect after treatment, you may not be.  At Waismann, you stay for several days to be monitored for any problems that might surface, and their is counseling and doctors available to work with the you to adjust to an opiate free life.  

P.S.  I never had to wear a diaper!!!!!

[Bre333]

I agree with Michael, "Raid Detox" is such an umbrella term. Some facilities that actually prescribe opiates like Suboxone actually call themselves a rapid detox! WOW! So, I agree, you must look at each facility individually and determine if it's right for YOU.

[mr.lucky66]

People on this board are so fixated on detox they are missing the big picture many times. I once had a state of the art experimental detox off methadone and street dope in L.A.that I was put asleep for about 5 days and slept a little less each day after that and was fully awake and left well after a month. This was done with clonidine patches and pills plus benzos and darvon and even cloral hyrate. It was great and only one doc was doing it but that wasn't the answer for me. I shot dope a few days after. Detox is only the first step. You have to be commited or else all this and your mega bux waiserman detox will be all for naught. Like I said before this may work for some but it seems to be for the rich only

[Mortysmate]

i dont know how i can prove to you what i said was true- i guess you will have to believe what you wish. However, the facts are absolute regardless of your opinion..I underwent Waismann's method. I had been heavily dependent on Oxy and/or sub for years. My experience was far from bad. I never wore a diaper. I go to the gym regularly and prctice Muay Thai neither of which i did before. Those are factual statements. I do not know if people have died, but as with any procedure that involves anesthesia, there must be risks. People have proberbly died getting their tonsils removed, its unfortunately the nature of surgery. With the level of professionalism i saw at Waismann, im sure they do all they can to minimize risks. I will be clean two years in July. I would be happy to have a coffee and chat with you specwolf, but im sure they dont allow exchanging personal info on this forum. I just hope if you're struggling with dependency, you weigh up what i posted before as being the truth. All the best

[goldenarm]

So how much was it? By the way did you get into the arts from watching MMA events? Anyting else you can tell us aobut it? Where did it take place? THanks