I was just wondering if anyone out there has or knows someone who has experienced the Waismann Method??? Im wondering about its success rates, I saw somewhere that women after a year supposedly had 65% success rate, but didnt find anything on men. I know that Waismann is an inpatient procedure usually lasting 5-7days, your induced into withdrawl after being put under anesthesia, then given sedatives and sleeping pills when you wake up and are transferred to ICU. Im curious to hear if anyone knows of the success rates involved, how the success differs from drug to drug, I would think the success rates of someone on hydrocodone would be greater than that of someone on methadone, oxycontin. Now I also would think that amounts of medication and its abuse would have to be factored in and their personal medical info. So if anyone out there has been through it please respond, if you know of someone that would be great, or if you've looked into yourself what have you found? Just so others know, Im looking into it for friends that may be able to benefit greatly from it, one friend in particular is on methadone and can't stop. He has no insurance so his care has subsequently has been less the adequate. But he does have family members that could fully afford to pay, if they were made somewhat certain that it would be successful. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance, I'll be sticking around to see if I can get any responses.
I dont about waismann specifically but I have not heard much good about rapid detox in general I will post an article I found on it not to mention it is SO expensive.
The dangers of rapid-detox **************
The Ontario Coroner's Office is investigating a second death connected to a chain of ************** clinics that offer a a highly controversial treatment that has divided addiction experts. So-called "rapid detox" treatment uses a cocktail of medications to speed through the withdrawl process while the patient remains under sedation. As part of the procedure, the patient is implanted with a pellet of the opiate antagonist Naltrexone to prevent them from having intense cravings or obtaining any "high" from opiates once the treatment is complete.
At first glance this sounds like it could be a great procedure -- why suffer through weeks of withdrawl symptoms when you can get through the worst of it in a few hours while unconscious? However, some experts claim it is biologically impossible to fast-track withdrawal and that the dangers of the procedure are not worth the potential payoff.
The Toronto Star has a very detailed investigation in to the latest death, including a lot of background information on the procedure for those who may be curious about pursuing it. It looks to be somewhat of a last-resort option, but it seems to me it won't do you much good being clean if there's a good chance that you'll die in the process
Yes Ive heard of the deaths involved and also that those deaths were through rapid detox in outpatient facilities (clinics), supposedly the waismann method is only done in Tel Aviv and two doctors in southern california. I know of the rapid detoxes in michigan that have had deaths, one of those outpatient rapid detox clinics was closed down do to the lack of safety procedures involved. The represenatives from the Waismann sent me an email claiming they are a far cry above those other outpatient rapid detox clinics. They use an actuall hospital for the procedure and then the person is actually transferred to the ICU for 3 days of monitoring. So I have to believe somewhat that the waismann method that is only done in one location(so.ca), is different from those other clinics that perform rapid detox and the person is sent home the same day or the next. In fact the waismann people were quick to dismiss these other rapid detox clinics, saying that because they were done on an outpatient basis that they are not nearly as safe or credible in their claims. Thank you for responding, Im hoping to get more info, I really do have a friend that it may be his only chance, I hardly get to see him anymore because Im currently on suboxone so I dont cant be around those who are still getting high. He's constantly back and forth from heroin, crystal meth...then back onto methadone and abusing opiates..hes just way out of control and his family reached out to me to try and help, so I have to look into every option. I understand there is a chance for death, there is that chance in every procedure on this earth that involves anesthesia, and its sad to hear that these rapid detox procedures are being done in clinics on an outpatient basis thats just plain irresponsible. Thanks again!!!
Its around $16,000, very expensive. There are other rapid detox centers that are around $6000 but from my research are far less safe, and are done on an outpatient basis. According the waismann people there is a huge difference between the other rapid detox facilities and what their procedure entails. With what Ive learned about rapid detox in general, I would never do rapid detox unless it was with Waismann, others are done in clinics or offices and you are monitored for maybe 24hrs before release and thats it. As with Waismann your in a hospital, a total evaluation is done, morphine is administered to curb withdrawls, your then placed under anesthesia for around 1hr and a precipitated withdrawl is induced while your under. When you wake up they give you the sleeping meds and sedatives, then over to the ICU etc. Thats a big difference then going into a clinic being put under anesthesia, thats just irresponsible to me, not having the proper facilties in case of problems arising. Im not totally sold on Waismann being proper, its still an experimental procedure and somewhat contoversial in its methods. Anyways thank you Avisg for all your help, if you could pm nautyone that would be great, thanks again.
the closest i have been to w.m is a revia script
this drug is used during rapid d
it made me really sick, i have seen 2 people fo through r.d
it looked like they were being tortured
a guy i used to get pills from tried r.d.
as soon as he woke up he was begging for narcotics
there is another site that has a r.d forum,
tons of people who have done it
every thread i have read from people who have done this states that it caused them pts
the cost will depend on where you go...
I guess what I really need to know is, what exactly is the difference in other rapid detox facilities and the facilities used by waismann method. As I undertand it, there are only two or three doctors, only in So. California, that do the waismann method. Now is the waismann method different in what medications are administered as to other rapid detoxes? I know the aftercare and monitoring are very different, pertaining to being in an actual hospital and ICU, would seem to be much more safe in case of complications. Im wondering if all rapid detoxes use the same method and just the aftercare is different when it comes to waismann. Or are the meds the same, method the same, but waismann offers a hospital and intensive care after the procedure is done. All this is purely for information purpose, trying to research all methods of recovery from addiction. Thank you all...I'll keep up the search!!!
I once spoke to a person that had gone through the rapid detox and said it was the most horrifying experience. He said that what they fail to tell you is that you have to wear a diaper for a month because you cannot control yourself and that you still feel like **** afterwards....he was telling me this story while standing in line at the methadone clinic. Says it all.
Has anyone ever read anything about IBOGAINE. it is suppose to be some miracle cure as well....just curious.
There will never be a softer easier way. But I am a recovering herion, methadone addict for over 12 years It can be done.
About 10 years ago I had a friend(in Texas) that was on methadone for a long time and was scared to death of withdrawal. Actually this guy was a co-adminstrator of the alcohol-drug hospital. So they did it in Fredericksburg, he stroked out w hile in process,
had to be intubated, and after two weeks they turned the machines off, he was brain dead, end of the line.
Even if the concept worked what are you going to do for maintaince. Stopping is only part of the problem. Addiction and alcoholism are horrible problems. But you got to face your demons sometime.
Hey, I just wanted to inform you that my mom read an article real recently, and the clinics in Southern California is where I live by the way are both closing. They have one in the city of Garden Grove, and I'm not sure where the other one is located. I couldn't tell you when or why for that matter, but obviously it's probably because there's too much danger involved. Well that would be my guess anyway. I do remember seeing a phone number so if you want i'll ask my mom about it when I see her tomorrow morning. How does that sound? Oh and the procedure costs 18,500 to be exact. That's really insane!!! Who in the hell has that kind of money anyway???
Good Luck to you,
Like the others, I would encourage you to really do your homework on it. It's not just that there is a risk of death and/or other complications... you also need to understand that rapid detox doesn't address addiction as a disease. When physical detox is over, psychologically, the person is still addicted. Rapid detox *only* addresses physical withdrawal - which is a very small part of addiction and recovery.
In the big picture, it's only going to be helpful towards recovery if the person is mentally ready to quit anyway. Which if that is the case, it's much safer to just go through a medically supervised/supported taper or detox (without risking life/health with rapid detox) in my opinion. And if it isn't the case and they aren't ready to quit anyway, it's a pointless risk of health/life.
As far as I understand it, Waismann is simply a bit safer because when complications occur, they can be treated immediately simply because you are in an intensive care setting. That doesn't save everyone however, and there have been deaths associated with the unnecessary procedure.
I like to hear if anyone who has used waismann or knows of someone who has, what their experience was. I understand it the same way, waismann is alot more safe than other rapid detox clinics, percisely because the aftercare and monitoring that is done through intensive care units. Trust me I did alot of research before posting the original question, and Im not interested in other rapid detoxes, just the waismann. Now it may be that they are the same except for the aftercare part, but I still dont have that answer. I'd be interested to hear if waismann has had any deaths? What are their particular success rates after one year? This would only be an absolute last resort for a friend, if his other avenues are not successfull. I thank everyone for their posts, but Im still looking for someone who has particular information on the Waismann method itself. In no way am I advocating rapid detox as a cure all, just wondering about the different methods used, and what the difference is between them. Thanks again, and good luck to all.
Yeah there have been deaths with the Waismann Method (if I'm not mistaken, Waismann is usually in Israel). He's trained other doctors here to perform the treatments in any case - there have been death/negligence cases against at least one of those doctors in California.
Oh and as far as success rates goes... the Waismann Method treats physical dependency to an opiate and so is not usually presented as a treatment for addiction (I'm sure you know the difference between the two). So when you see any success rates, they talking about success in treating physical dependency and not addiction, unless they specifically state otherwise.
I don't believe there have been any published scientific/independent studies regarding success rate for the treatment of addiction that included rapid detox compared to traditional methods.
Oh finally thank you! Thats unfortunate but Im glad to hear the truth about the Waismann, and yes the doctor who invented in does it in Tel Aviv, and he has trained two doc's to do it in some hospital in So.CA. Thats all I was looking for was what the deal is with Waismann, they've sent me many emails stating how different they are, and not to compare them to traditional rapid detox. Of course when I asked I never did get an answer on whether they've had patients die, but I did get them to say that"...women had a success rate of 65% after one year, compared to 5-10% to that of traditional detox methods." Really I thank you all, I kinda got frustrated when I was getting just info telling me to read up on rapid detox, I had done all that, wasnt interested in any rapid detox besides the waismann method. If I were actually considering this for myself, Im not, but If I were I would want the absolute best care possible, in the correct facility(a hospital), wouldnt ever try to skimp on the costs when it comes to my health. Thank you really Sablezen you got mostly what I was looking for, so case closed, I guess they all are still way to experimental to be reliable. Good luck and God bless you all!!!
I know you posted the question about Rapid Opiate Detox back in August, but I just came across this site. OK, from the horses mouth- Yes, I did this form of detox in 2001. Would I recommend it to anyone? No, not even my worst enemy. I live in Seattle. I did all the research on different types of treatment, and thought this sounded great. I read all the testimonials by supposed people who had done it before and thought how bad can it be, it takes a few days and pow, Im fixed, & can get back to a normal life. Well, It didn't work out that way. I went to a clinic that looked to be the real deal, very nice, clean, etc. The price at that time, was $5000 cash!! I met with a guy who said he was the councelor of the clinic, he asked me all types of questions, said he would talk with the doctor, and would let me know if they thought I would be a good canidate for this procedure. I heard back from him the next morning, he said they could get me in to the clinic for the procedure in 4 days. He also said I would have to bring in a $1500 deposit right away to hold the spot. (like they had people lining up) So I got the money, and took it to the clinic. At this time, I actually met the Dr. as well. All I can remember is he looked like a short version of Gene Wilder, (seriously) And so I made my appointment. I arrived at the clinic that morning 4 days later at 7am. The Doctor came out immedietly asked me if I wanted a sedative, which I replied yes, (I forgot to mention, I was told I would not be able to take any more of my opiate of choice after midnight the night before, (I was a very heavy user of oxycontin, so I was already going thru withdrawels), The next thing the Dr. wanted was the remaining $3500. They took me into the small, steril, type operating room around 8:00am, a nurse arrived, the Dr. gave me another shot of the sedative, so I was all good with everything. The Dr. explained to me that after I was put under, they would be putting a breathing tube through my mouth to breath for me while the procedure was done. OK, now it really gets bad. Once the procedure was complete, they tried for a long time to wake me, I almost didn't wake up, I almost died. That is the honest to God truth. It took several people to get my body out to this little room outside the operating room, that had a small bed, a little desk and a TV. How do I know all of this?? you may ask. I just kinda rememberd hearing all this yelling and confusion, and I asked questions the next day when I was able to mumble a few words. They laid me in that bed at what I found out later was 11:00am. I was completly out of it. I have never felt as bad as I did, I couldn't stay awake, and I could not talk, nothing came out. I just laid there. Thru that night, and the next morning, I beleive there were two different nurses that sat there with me. The Dr. only came back to check on me once that evening, and then the next morning when I was told I had to leave the clinic. I just remember laying there thinking I was going to die, and almost wishing I would. I had to pee so bad, but couldn't walk. The nurse finally got me into a rolling chair, that had a poddy on it. I slept on and off all night, when I wasn't sleeping, I was staring at the wall. I will never forget that ordeal. The next morning, I felt exactly the same, but they said I had to leave, they had made arrangments with my same girlfriend that had dropped me off. They told her to pick me up the next morning at 9am. I was in no condition to do anything, not even walk, but this so called miracle physician, and the other guy were more than happy to help carry me to her car. I was sick to death, throwing up, and had a very high blood pressure and was feeling 1000x worse than when I got there by a long shot. My girlfriend took me out to my Moms house cause she didn't know what else to do- I seriously could not walk or talk. Although my Mom kinda new I had a drug problem, she didnt know to what extent. When she saw me, she was horrified. My Mom took care of me for over a week, until I could get food in me, and get a little strengh going, and finally walk. I still felt awful, like a had a deathly flu, but I was able to function a little. What finally helped me get better?? More oxycontin- The minute I was able to get my hands on some, I took several and chewed them up, then I felt better. So there is your first hand story of how Rapid Opiate Detox works. The Dr. I went to, was board certified, he also thought he was God himself. Oh and by the way, that clinic closed not long after that. This procedure is now banned in the State of Washington. I beleive the Government is shutting these places down most everywhere in the U.S. It doesn't matter whos method it is, or what these people are saying, take it from me, its a waste of your money, and could cost you your life.
I learned my lesson the hard way, but at least Im still here to talk about it. Put it this way, if there was such a program like this that would actually help people detox without all the withdrawl symptons, there would lines and lines of people everywhere waiting to have it done. Also, if the procedure had such a high success rate, Im sure there would be some sort of government assistance across the United States. It would be a hell of a lot cheeper than paying for all the resources they have out there now trying to win the war on drugs. There are so many sick people out there that need help. Like the old saying goes, If its to good to be true, it probably is. So thats my story, hope it helps, even if just one person ! Dawn
if you pay $5000 for an outpatient procedure that costs $18,000 elsewhere, and elsewhere is performed in an ICU with a five day stay, you can't compare the two. This is your life, you get what you pay for. Imagine the actual costs involved with a five day hospital stay, a procedure room, ICU and ICU nurses, including the doctor's fee and medications, not to mention the pre-examination tests. Lets get real here.
Wow, im reading some weird stuff here! well, i underwent rapid detox at Waismann, and have none of the horror stories quoted here. basically a few years after getting addicted to Vicadin post surgery, i was taking over 200mgs of Oxycontin just to prevent withdrawals.My life became a miserable cycle of weening, suboxone, withdrawal and deceit for bloody years. I hid it from my wife who thought i just had recurring flu whenever it got really bad. I would wake up soaked in sweat as i hadnt had any Oxycontin for a few hours. Anyway, im sure you all know how this can feel. So one day my wife found out and contacted the Waismann institute. I will be objective here, but its hard as i basically think it was a miracle..Some intelligent posters stated that the Waismann method doesnt treat addiction, just physical dependency.while this is true, they offer a post treatment facility ( i went for a while) where they offer meetings, therapy etc. Also, in my case, i dont think it was an addictive personality that got me hooked, it was just the highly addictive opiates themselves..I think once you become dependent, ANYBODY can get trapped. Anyway, i was full of shame when we went, and hyper-sensitive to anyone that seemed even slightly judgemental.I did not experience anything loke that the entire time.I was treated with more respect and empathy than i felt i deserved, but that gave me great peace of mind and gratitude. The procedure itself i have little memory of ( yeah!) and everyone was great. i remember asking when they were going to do it and they said it was already done. The worst thing was it took a little while to have solid stools again, and that i felt weak for a while. The doctors said this was due to my bowels not used to operating un-drugged for so many years..I did NOT have to wear diapers!! i am sorry if some had different experiences, but i can only assume these are rare. When i was in the aftercare facility ( loved the jacuzzi!) i met several others in various stages of post procedure. They all seemed very relieved that opiates no longer was destroying their lives.It was great to see such a cross section of humanity starting to plan on how to take back their lives. This happened in July 07 and im now ( at 43) fighting Muay Thai and working out ( neither of which i did previously). All i can say is that it worked brilliantly for me, and i urge you to do the research as i did. I am so thankfull i cannot describe it. Whenever i feel down at all, i just look at my daily planner with all the desperately endless graphs i drew trying to ween off of oxycontin, or glance at my arms and not see sweat dripping off them, and i feel pretty damn good..I hope each and everyone of you fighting this soul destroying dependency find the courage to address this, and The Waismann Method resoundingly worked for me..
how do we know this is a real story, and not some well thought up fantasy that some doctor at the clinic posted to get some business??? ok, For one.. I understand that its "Rapid detox";However, I was on suboxone for 2 years and withdrew for months when I came off... U cant honestly tell me that someone on meth, or sub for years can feel like they did before they even new what pain pills felt like.. bullsh*t.. im not buyin' it... And the anxiety and depression afterwards(that is extreemly severe for some patients, and that alone is enough to cause them to use again) is all gone and ur happy!? Again, bullsh*t
These types of detoxs work sometimes but mostly fail and can be disasterous. It that concept of trying to fool your body and it usually doesn't work. They put a diaper on you and put you under and try to speed you through withdrawal. It's a crapshoot if it works or not and only seems to work some of the time. It's too much money for these mixed results.
"These Types of Detoxes"....is lumping all rapid detox procedures together...Waismann is one of the only rapid detoxes done in an Intensive Care Unit, not a doctor's office, by a board certified anesthesiologist. You must compare the individual results of each treatment center, and not lump them together. With regards to being perfect after treatment, you may not be. At Waismann, you stay for several days to be monitored for any problems that might surface, and their is counseling and doctors available to work with the you to adjust to an opiate free life.
I agree with Michael, "Raid Detox" is such an umbrella term. Some facilities that actually prescribe opiates like Suboxone actually call themselves a rapid detox! WOW! So, I agree, you must look at each facility individually and determine if it's right for YOU.
People on this board are so fixated on detox they are missing the big picture many times. I once had a state of the art experimental detox off methadone and street dope in L.A.that I was put asleep for about 5 days and slept a little less each day after that and was fully awake and left well after a month. This was done with clonidine patches and pills plus benzos and darvon and even cloral hyrate. It was great and only one doc was doing it but that wasn't the answer for me. I shot dope a few days after. Detox is only the first step. You have to be commited or else all this and your mega bux waiserman detox will be all for naught. Like I said before this may work for some but it seems to be for the rich only
i dont know how i can prove to you what i said was true- i guess you will have to believe what you wish. However, the facts are absolute regardless of your opinion..I underwent Waismann's method. I had been heavily dependent on Oxy and/or sub for years. My experience was far from bad. I never wore a diaper. I go to the gym regularly and prctice Muay Thai neither of which i did before. Those are factual statements. I do not know if people have died, but as with any procedure that involves anesthesia, there must be risks. People have proberbly died getting their tonsils removed, its unfortunately the nature of surgery. With the level of professionalism i saw at Waismann, im sure they do all they can to minimize risks. I will be clean two years in July. I would be happy to have a coffee and chat with you specwolf, but im sure they dont allow exchanging personal info on this forum. I just hope if you're struggling with dependency, you weigh up what i posted before as being the truth. All the best
This screwed up world and its drugs....I hurt my back when I was 20, My doctor gave my vicoden, eventually, my back got much worse through a couple serious car accidents, so as my pain got worse they gave me stronger doses and stronger meds, I was never told that the pills were addictive, when I first was prescribed oxycontin, purdue was pushing the stuff as a miracle pain reliever with no bad side effects, and very low addiction rate, but even that was not info my doctors thought I should have so I thought it was great, it took my pain away and made me feel like a million bucks, I could function without pain, then when I ran out one weekend because I did not think anything of it, I got so deathly ill, I went in to the ER, they gave me a pill, I cant remember what it was, and I was 1000% better, So I figured it out. So My main reason for thinking of rapid detox, is so I can take a much lower dose to achieve the pain relieving qualities of my meds, as I have intractable pain, my problem is not addiction, or abuse, it is simply nerve pain that is intolerable. So I use cannabis and morphine with norco. Oxy works better but is much more of a roller coaster ride, I have to immediately take more and more of a dose of it compared to the morphine. So I feel stuck. If I oversleep past 8 hours I wake up kinda sick. So I have no answer, no good solution. Yet I feel as trapped by these fukin pills as any of you.,....
I just saw a show on E Channel about the Waismann **************. I just celebrated 1 year drug free and I thank the Waismann for that....Sure I read all these posts and I dont judge people, but when you go to a detox you have to be willing to feel life, your body , your emotions and is not easy...When I was there there was another 5 people with me...Most were doing great and one just complaint and repeated how it did not work and try to get us all to hate the program with him. The staff did everything possible to help and the guy was just so negative and would just fight every step of the way. I myself sat down with him and try to help but he became angry at me. He was just not ready to face life or himself and would have used anything and anyone to fail.
Today I saw the TV show , I think was einvestigates and I saw the other patients and all those memories came back. I came back here and as I start reading this forum I thought about my experience and all I had to say is that it worked for me and I am grateful for being able toafford and get the procedure. God Bless you all and I wish you a healthy New Year.
I wish I could provide help in every way to every addict in the world, including myself. If I were Oprah or Will Smith or a member of the Billionaires Club at all, I would use much of my money to provide luxurious detox & treatment centers for us. I would make it affordable or have some sort of financing or free or within your means, whatever. I type this message crying for all of us that became addicts blindsightedly or on purpose, those that left themselves to become something else..someone else. We are stereo-typed, over looked, misjudged, wrongly perceived, and nothing more than a sad statistic that wastes billions of tax dollars, whether its state funded detox & treatment or state funded welfare. Addiction is out there to destroy everyone. It is a demon that lurks around peering into our lives. Preying on the ones that have low self esteems or misplaced identities. It can conquer all but does not because not everyone succumbs to it's seduction. Therefore they fall prey to a demon of another infirmity. The only Hope we truly have is God.
Thank you for commenting and actually answering the question asked concerning Weismann. It is like you said , you find and hear some very "Weird " things on this topic. It is sad that one cannot find literature on the subject other than from Weismann. What is needed is more comments and awareness from ex- addicts and patients of Weismann themselves , others not connected with Weismann themselves. The cost does reflect the medicines and care , facilities given. Would you question a doctors thirty thousand dollar bill for a knee surgery. Well yes, but its not like Oh My God!! and we pay.anyway , thats what it cost!..They are giving someone care that otherwise make a person whole again mentally and physically. WHICH THEY CANNOT DO ON THEIR OWN....what amazes me most is the comments made by those who do not know what a day of serious withdraw is let alone a year of it! It is imaginable for those on serious drugs and have serous addictions such as methadone or heroin. I am not talking about a vicaden addiction or other prescribed opiete addictions which are bad , but do not compare in length of time and intensity of withdraw symptoms. And you have to remember there are individuals involved in this and that everyone is different in what their explanation of pain or what is tuff and what is not physically hard or just perseved as such. For example an US Army cadet just out of boot camp will have a drastically different explanation of what physical pain is in comparison to a 15 year old rich kid little 9th grader from some ritzy high school in the Hamptons...!!!
THOSE TYPES NEED TO BE UP AT THEIR LOCAL RAPID DETOX CENTER. WHY so they can learn through pain why you do not do drugs...they need to feel what there body does when the party is over and they want to quite..its not that easy...and daddy or mommy cant just pay and get them out of it again. But with the Weismann they can pay to get them out..What do you think all the stars, athletes, politicians that get into this type of trouble get help so fast. They dont want people to be able to just pay and get out of this kind of trouble ,they believe that you should just kick it cold . But of course everyone and everyone situation is different and thats why this is so successful for those who are really a candidate and really ready for it. Those situational withdraw symptoms for extremely potent drugs are extreme withdraws and last a long time, both mentally as well as physically that is completely debilitating for up to years while trying to kick it the old fashion way. In those situations in the time line of extreme physical suffering which is around the clock pain. This type of withdraw and addiction should be fought with the Weismann if economically possible. The younger client with the smaller lower years of abuse , amount and type of drugs addicted too etc... Those addiction depending on the time and amount used can be ..sometimes solved by more affordable and widely used rapid detox methods and centers which insurance companies will help pay for as well. Those are more geared toward the lightly or moderately addicted patient. Maybe the younger patients or mentally weaker individuals that think that they are more addicted than they are. Maybe for those who cannot kick something that they should be able to kick on their own , by themselves or maybe with a small amount of medical help and monitoring. For those who have addictions to drugs where withdraw unassisted is impossible both mentally as well as physically. For the others this type of detox is impossible , inhumane and should be against the law. When they dont work and they do not for those who have strong addictions do not get their money back or any continued care. It is sad that the price of this method and the drugs , anesthesia , doctors , facilities are so expensive. It should be offered the poor all the same but that is life in America. Lesson learned do not for any reason let anyone tell you that you should take any addictive medications longer than a week. AND IF YOU DO decide to do so...you have been warned and should expect the same consequence that you have heard here...and from many,many others.
Thank you Aston 1969 and others for you incomprehensibabble.
From the looks of it, Waismann is(was?) legit. You get what you pay for, and that's a powerful last resort. They seem to have covered bases necessary for ending an addiction. Rapid detox is inherently incredibly physically traumatic, so they keep you in the safest place known to man, an ICU. Actually abstaining from drugs will always be a choice left to the person, so they supply follow-up from a psychologist and physical checkups. And if the stories are true and not just more sleezy advertising like I saw on their website, the staff are very understanding and respectful of the patient and the choices that led them to their facility. Whereas the stories of other rapid detox clinics sound like nightmares I've had.
If you have 20k, a life-threatening addiction, and a strong reason to quit (such as a family), then this treatment is for you. If you have 5k and don't know what you'd do without drugs, a random rapid detox clinic is not the next best thing. Drug replacement, therapy, or weening yourself off will yield the best results you could possibly hope for.
Thank you. I am flying out to waissman in 2 weeks to have it done and this forum has scared the **** out of me. Thanks for letting me know it is what it advertises and i am not going to be in hell after its done. And for those of you still curious, i will post after i go through the procedure. i am flying out the 9th of june and having it done on the 10th. i am staying in aftercare (domus) for a week so i will post again around mid june. good luck to me.
i am leaving tomorrow (wed) to go to the waismann institute. a 7 am (eastern time zone) flight will get me out to LAX 10:15 am (pacific time zone)...the procedure will be on (thurs)...i will be on the east coast for 10 days..so i will post again in about 2 weeks explaining the procedure in detail, and how i felt afterwards. this will clear up all this babble and finally the wiasmann method will be revealed.
the wiasmann method...holy sh!t. The worst expeirence ive ever been through. am i now clean? yes! but it was like going to hell and back. vomitting, uncontrolled bowels, extreme cramps, No sleep (still and its been 8 days). Your body has to adjust itself to working properly without opiates. its truely a horrible. but for some it may be the only way.
yes there was aftercare at a nice house about a hour from the hospital. it was like being on the real world without cameras and ur surrounded by sick ppl. heres a poem i wrote about my exxperience:
I knew I was in trouble,
When they threw me a shovel
And said your digging your own grave
**** all that I gave
You know I cant stay
My habit is sending me away
All those times I lied
Still so much you cried
Even though I tried
I felt as though I died
I know you mind
Im in this twisted bind
So when im not with you
Just reach for a tissue
Because those tears,
Well they could last for years
I don’t mean to hurt you
So I want to alert you
we may never see each other again
Just say god bless and Amen
No worries now
You can take a bow
Cause im back
Clean of smack
My life is new
But im feeling blue
So help me out
And let me sprout
Into a new man
Who is trying to find a plan
To stay clean
Even from the green
Which I used to smoke
But I cant joke
This is serious ****
Im done with it
God bless and amen
the weismann method cost me 22k..not to mention airfare. it was a horrible expeirence. i had to basically relearn to walk. im 25 and feel like im 90. and mentally...god..i cant concentrate, i have a hard time remembering things...and forget about sleeping..maybe 3 hrs a night. its really a last resort. try any other way to get clean before doing this procedure.
I really wished the method had worked for you. I read your posts some days ago and just wanted to show you my support if you need it. I can only tell you that i'm sure that your concentration and sleep will come back with time. You may need working on your recovery right now so that all this suffering you are going through will have a meaning.... have you thought of any kind of aftercare ? we need help with our personal problems and our addictive behavior...
i was in aftercare for 10 days...it helped a lot. now i just see my phycologist twice monthly. im staying at my parents house for now which is sorta an aftercare situation. thank you for the support...any kind of socializing is helping..wheather in person or online. hope to hear from you soon...phish
I am a female who has suffered with serious addiction for years and years. I have been addicted to everything from Vicodin and Dilaudid to Heroine. I am happy to say that there is life after addiction! THERE IS HOPE! I have been through detox more times than I care to admit, and I have lost everything except my beating heart on more than one occassion. But, now I am drug-free, happy and successful!
I now have a career in the pharmaceutical field (imagine that), and from what I have read and heard about the Rapid Detox, it is nothing but a TEMPORARY and EXPENSIVE solution to a life long problem.
No matter how bad it seems at the time; Detox is only temporary! Then the REAL WORK begins! Choosing a different lifestyle, and Choosing NOT to do drugs anymore, and then sticking to that Choice is the hardest thing of all. It is alot easier said than done. But it IS POSSIBLE. And it does get easier with time.
I wish you ALL THE BEST OF LUCK. If recovery is something you WANT, it IS an option! A few rough days of withdrawl is an easy price to pay for a lifetime of freedom. ( Believe me, I have been there!)
The longer you are clean, the less you obsess about the cravings. Then eventually you crave other things. Take Care, Josie Belle
I am an ICU RN and can tell you that there is no easy way out. Even though you are rapidly detoxed your opiate receptors will still crave the drug. Then if they give you Sub or Meth you will have to wd from that too. You will need a program right away to give you the tools to stay clean. Good luck and if you can't detox on your own get into an inpatient facility that can give you meds to ease the pain of wd and after that they can send you to an after care program.
"if you pay $5000 for an outpatient procedure that costs $18,000 elsewhere, and elsewhere is performed in an ICU with a five day stay, you can't compare the two. This is your life, you get what you pay for. Imagine the actual costs involved with a five day hospital stay, a procedure room, ICU and ICU nurses, including the doctor's fee and medications, not to mention the pre-examination tests. Lets get real here."
hmm..read the post you are criticizing again. he said he had the ultra rapid detox in 2001. and back then it DID cost $5,000 at the top of the line clinics. i also had it done that year at respectable hospital in NYC and that is what i paid. and it was the worst experience! maybe for someone with a weak little habit it would be fine, but for those with any kind of real opiate habit, forget it. glad there was bars on the window in the recovery room where i woke up or i would have jumped out of the 12 story window (and if i could have stood up or stopped projectile spewing out both ends), that is how insanely horrible i felt. out of my mind with pain and sick. you can't rip the long term opiates out of your body in a few minutes under anesthesia and not suffer greatly afterward. the "weismann method" is just a fancy dressed up ultra rapid detox, the methodology is all the same. all the 'understanding and respect', ICU, and pampering afterward that the weismann clinic does will not change the fact that your body just underwent an inhumane torturous experience.
there are numerous regular inpatient detoxes all over the country. far better to detox over the course of 7-14-21 days (depending on habit) and suffer through it at a rate that is reasonable, that your body and mind can deal with, than to go through an experience that you seriously would not wish on your worst enemy. (remember you don't know if someone posting that weismann is 'so wonderful' doesn't work for them, trolling sites like these for clients is obviously a real possibility).
there is no free ride to detoxing. yes, there are meds that can make it more comfortable, but "if you play, you gotta pay" is a very appropriate saying for detox. accept that and just do it. i've detoxed every way there is off a huge heroin habit and have concluded that staying home using comfort meds and support person is the best way to detox...if your mind is made up that you really want off.
staying clean afterward is the real hard part anyways.
Is there any published research from a well known medical journal on this? These people have been doing this procedure for a while now, they have the data... so why didn't they publish it? That seems very questionable to me. They would have published if the results were good (it would have boosted their sales). If they didn't, that usually means they have something to hide.
I am willing to change my mind if anyone can point me to credible research.
anyone that has ever been addicted to opiates knows that you only hate the drug because of what it's doing to you, not how it makes you feel (when you have it that is) so because of this, i personally think a person needs to go through the withdrawal to know that they don't want to do that again. If you don't go through the suffering, how are you going to not want to use again??? I think for that reason and the cost is enough for me to advise against this method, after all what junkie can afford that? I would recommend tapering off slowly... cut your dose in half for a week, wait a little longer everyday to take your first dose, if you start withdrawals after 12 hours, wait 13 to take it, every week cut your dose by 1/4 and taking your first dose later and later. eventually start skipping a day and not using for that whole day, this will prepare your body for withdrawal. you will have symptoms still, however they will not be as strong, take tylenol, ibuprofin, fish oil, smoke marijuana, drink plenty of water and take vitamins and sleeping pills. feel alive again, get your life back and meet the "YOU" that was left behind. GOOD LUCK!!!
I did a UROD and posted my experience under another thread started by a n MD who is proponent of such. It almost killed me and it DOES NOT ADDRESS WITHDRAWAL SYSTEMS. I was on 80mgs of methadone and I almost died of dehydration. The md lost his license and I am glad. Hopefully he has learned from the people who died under his UROD treatment.
I am currently down from 360 mgs to 11mgs. The MD who put me on this high dosage should be commended. Apparently methadone does not make my endorphin sites sing, and unfortunately he could not prescribe me heroin. Remember getting clean is just the start.
I had 12 years of clean time and though I hate 12 Step Meetings my sponsor tells me to continue going until I like them again.
He is correct.
DO NO HARM
Be Well, friend
waisman is not what it touted to be we have had several members blow the 20grand and do it .....only 1 had anything good to say about it as for there spa the days after everybobody is to sick to enjoy it there is no ez quick fix for a detox .....look your looking at having the flu for about 4 or 5 days would you spend 20 grand to avoid that??? this is no different your going to be sick for a week then your past it it is up to you if you are willing to treat it to stay clean even wiesman wont keep you clean personally I think detoxing is an inporant part of recovery and you should go threw it you need to know this junk will get you sick and that you cant just fork over the cash to dr feel good and get well I have helped people detox for over 2 yrs we have had no fatality or odd reactions just get your mindset right and go threw the detox process you will be a stronger person for it dont waist your money on quacks like wisman they dont deliver on what they say you cannot detox in 3 to 4 days and feel fine it dont work that way recovery is a gradual process I wish you all the best good luck and God bless........Gnarly
My wife had to go into treatment and she chose the waisman method, so far 6 months later she does not have a single craving for any narcotics, She was unable to get off the vicodin because of the anticipation and pain of the nasty withdrawals, today my wife is clean and sober and sees life in a much clearer fashion. The hardest part for her is knowing and realizing she can never take a opiate again for pain. They are outrageously expensive and it out a hardcore dent in our finances, It was 20000 bucks for this treatment, But the patient is put under for the whole process of detoxing the opiates out of the human body, once it is flushed out, they are kept comfortable with benzos or xanax. They treated her with dignity and respect and the aftercare was like a country club with a personal chef and yoga and such. But as with anything you have too and must work the program the first opioid you take and its 20000 bucks down the drain, anyways I hope this helps, In a nutshell the program is expensive, withdrawals are never felt, your cleaned out in 7 hours, and you receive top notch after care for 1 week. The program is 8 days, in California, and your sent home with blockers you need to take for 6-9 months
Its nice to see your story radfory, your wifes experiences mirror my own. I was so glad i did it and have been clean almost 4 1/2 years now, never had a craving afterwards either.its good to hear positive things from you, it seems many people have a problem with the procedure and its good to get many opinions, but for the life of me i cannot relate to some of the stuff people say, Maybe i was just lucky, but from the moment i went to Waismann ( including the procedure and emmediately afterward) up till today my lifes so much better than the lost several years prior. Congratulations to you and your wife, now you get to have a life again!
I am a doctor and went through the Waismann Method. It allowed me to detox, without serious discomfort, and allowed me to keep my dignity. I do not below you have to hit rock bottom, or suffer to get better. The Naltrexone stopped the cravings, and I have been free of opiates for over 5 years. People complain about $20,000..but this procedure is done in an intensive care unit, by a board certified anesthesiologist, with tremendous costs. I can't say enough about how this saved my life.
Elliot, thanks for your comments about your personal experience with the Waismann method. It's easy for people to become short-sighted when exposed to negative comments and negative hearsay about clinical interventions -especially regarding opiate dependency. And let's face it...."positive/hopeful spirit" in regard to anything addiction-related is pretty much unheard of. All the negativity adds to addiction stigma. And we all know (or should) that stigma adds to barriers to recovery for individuals and families. I'm not suggesting that there have not been problems with rapid detox. It's just that, after a good amount of research, it appears that the negative outcomes are associated with the short-cutted versions of the Waismann method- which, in my opinion, catagorizes these short cut versions as non-Waismann methods....apples and oranges in effect.
Continued happiness and health to you and your wife. Thank you for the balance of perspective you offer by sharing your personal experience. It provides readers with better decision-making ability. That's really what we should all be focused on: "What options are available to me that might allow me to improve my health, my circumstances, my quallity of life...or that might allow me to become a more informed, effective advocate on behalf of a loved one with a substance ue disorder?"
All I can say is I have cold turkey stopped Opiates several times. Each time same results. The best method I have found OUTSIDE OF rehab which I have NEVER done, is the Thomas method. Only because it is vitamins, poopoo meds, etc etc just look it up, you will feel like crap depending on your med, for about 3 days and after that mostly TIRED and just sorta out of wack......if you can get past the first 3 days you can handle the rest if your strong enough. Good Luck
Gnarly...Your comments suggest that you are not fully researched on opiate addiction, nor the broad scope of treatment methodolgies/interventions available. One size treatment approach will never fit all individuals because every individual is 'different'. We all have separate mechanisms for physiological and emotional coping. It's irresponsible to assume and to imply that one-size-fits-all philosophizing based on the notion that consequences, i.e. "the experience of laying in the bed one makes" is the 'cure'. That is not an evidence-based argument. That is simply your' opinion -which you are certainly entitled to. However, I encourage youopen you mind and do the research. You mention in comment "several members...." which suggest you're refering to 'peer' support groups -i'm assuming a 12 step group?
The way you 'come across' in your comment hints that you are someone who tends to make decisions based on a kind of indoctrinated state of mind common in 'some' addiction/recovery related peer group philosophies. Remember to consider that everyone has an individual journey. We serve others best in navigating the challenges of addiction when we interact in a way that allows/inspires an individual/loved one to forge their own path. People are able to cope with their challenges better and better over time when they have a sense that the people around them are not judging them or otherwise trying to control their thoughts or actions via manipulative strategies such a fear-mongering, gossip and pessimism. A lot of so-called "support" group meetings rely on membership via these unhealthy tactics. The net result is stigma...Encouraging you to use a responsibly open-minded, common-sense approach and positive spirit when approaching the subject of 'others' addictions. A menu of evidence-based options is the goal!
I've read your comment to Gnarly. I found it rude and condescending. You assume things not evidenced.
The "members" he was referring to are members of this forum who have subjected themselves to this detox method. Their opinions are well documented in the MH archives. I might add that his remarks are five months old...
My husband went to mexico for the ibogaine treatment- he was working with a guy named Lex Keegan- from the web site IBEGINAGAIN.COM. My husband has dealt with opiate addiction and alcoholism for many many years. oxys, methadone, suboxone, herion, fentenayl- you name it. At the time he went down there he was on suboxone. Lex told him to switch to methadone for 4 weeks before coming - he didnt quite do what the guy said. He switched to roxys for 2 weeks. Lex also told him to stop drinking for 1 week before- ha! he had a vodka mixer at the air port. So he did the treatment- said it was the coolest feeling hed ever had. Said it felt like every neuron in his brain lit up. He was asleep for almost 3 days- in a diaper. Dreaming of his past lives. He was supposed to feel 100% when he woke up. Didnt quite go that way. He came home and laid in bed for 3 days then got back on the suboxone. Since the treatment didnt work he gets a second round free of charge- but its not cheap to fly to mexico. He has stayed in contact with Lex Keegan and from what I have heard Lex had to move his practice to a different country. Some other beautiful place. The place he stayed was very beautiful and peaceful but for $5000. i Dont think I would ever do it. Unless money is no object - then hey, what do you have to lose. right. Good luck, and remember youre not alone.
Unlike most of you, who are speculating, I experienced the rapid detox in Michigan 4 months ago. I have never abused drugs - rather, I was prescribed the fentanyl patch 100 mcg for several years after I broke my back in multiple places & crushed my pelvis. Trying to withdraw from the fentanyl was sheer torture. I found the rapid detox to be a godsend. I drove to Michigan with a family member early Monday. Once there I met with the nurse to be evaluated physically. Tuesday I had the procedure. It was just like going to sleep for surgery. I woke up in recovery with several other people who had the procedure. Each of us was assigned our own medical worker, who sat next to each of us & watched each person closely. After a couple hours, We returned to our hotel by shuttle. They had a nurse who came to our rooms to give us scheduled medication. I pretty much slept the rest of Tuesday, & much of Wednesday. It is a requirement that you have a person staying with you (family member, friend) in your hotel room. They keep an eye on you. Then we drove home Thursday. You are given a choice of receiving a 6-month supply of Naltrexone HCL in pill form for free, they could mail you a Naltrexone shot to be administered once a month for extra money, or you could choose to have a Naltrexone HCL pellet imbedded near your belly button, which lasts for 3 months (so you would need to have a second one done after 3 months. This last choice is expensive. I chose the pills, & take one daily. Naltrexone HCL prevents further periodic withdrawl symptoms, prevents cravings for the drug, & causes the patient not to experience any euphoria ("high") if they do relapse & take the drug while they are on it. The cost of this program (which includes your hotel, the procedure, medication, evaluation by the nurse, & Naltrexone pills) is $4,800. In insurance does not cover this. You must arrive there ready to pay the full amount by cash, credit card, or bank check. They DO NOT accept personal checks! I don't know how I ever would have been able to discontinue the fentanyl patch without this procedure. I have nothing but good to say about the program. I would definitely recommend it to anyone.
My son did the rapid detox with the Waismann after rehab twice, sober living, suboxone and all that was available. It saved his life. He was inpatient for 10 days , but the last couple years we have work with quite a bit of therapy to keep him off.
I am trying to convince my friend to follow his steps but have not been that lucky yet.
17 years on OXY ,and 2 of them on OXY and suboxone ( which BTW is the WORST DRUG EVER INVENTED),I had enough.
Withdrawl from multi year use is hell ,and if u used sub, forget even trying, cuz the half life is 86 hours, meaning you wont even start full blown WD for 4 days,and to really get back to "functionable",or hell even " presentable" at work, you NEED 15 days off.Tapering is only possible if you are have iron willpower and a month of no responsibilies. I'm in so cal, and finally had enough. Waismann method 100% works.Crazy **** happens to you ( 5 gr narcan) ,but you totally out and dont feel or remember anything.They get all the junk out. They are the ONLY (forget your reg dr. ) people who can safely do this,period. It costs 20k, but you must think of it this way; somebody is holding a gun (dope) to ur head and demands 20k. You would find a way to scrounge ,borrow, or steal, sell to get the money. Do it. The first day you wake up,you instantly feel like you passed thru some plasma barrier back to the real world,but you're sore and tired, like after running 200miles. They take you to a frinkin mansion in OC where you rest, exercise, get benzos, stop GI probs, chill with the staff ( EVERYBODY SMOKES, so if you don't consider starting for a while) Nicotine feeds the monsters too.You are more pampered there than in a vegas penthouse suite, gods honest truth.The is no shame , and you can get all the mental **** and fear of wd outta your head. Honestly I did not think it would work, and while you are require to stay on naltrax for ,inmost cases, 9 months,
THERE IS NO MORE DRAGON HELL WD,period. U ARE DONE
You really sleep thru it. My amex bill just came in the ( 22 k) and i have no idea how to pay it in 14 days, but a little financial black mark on ur credit score is ******* nothing compared to WD for OXY, sub or Heroin users, we know.Worth every penny.IN the end its probably cheaper than staying on sub or buying street oxy over the course of a year anyway.
Call April at Waismann, and TAKE back your life ..all of us deserve it....
My brother was a Heroin addict for years, shooting it up and all, finally hit rock bottom, and really desired to get over his addiction, so we took him to the Weismann institute in orange county, 5 day trip, after the rapid detox he hasn't touched anything in about 10 years has a wife and 5 kids and is LDS. the first couple days were a big adjustment and had assistance getting around but had he not gone through this i have no doubt he would no longer be alive today. I believe they have a good turn out but everybody is different and can handle things in different ways or amounts. All I know is that it saved my brothers life and i'm forever grateful. and He is thus far and probably going to be forever sober.
This is not true. I went through the Waismann method 1 month ago and it was like an exorcism without a lpriest. Worst experience of my life. I have gone cold turkey before and it was awful but nothing compared to the Waismann rapid detox. EVERYONE HAS WITHDRAWALS AFTER THIS PROCEDURE. Every patient is incredibly sick and everyone says that they had no idea it was this awful. The PA who is suppose to take care of you at the Domus is worthless. She was negligent in her care and basically sat outside and smoked cigarettes most of the time. They promise you over the phone before you come that within a few days after the procedure that you will wake up feeling GREAT.. That is a lie. The ICU is archaic and the nurses are not available. I cannot describe what it is like when you wake up in that ICU. A dark , dismal room with a metal toilet that comes out of a cupboard. Waking up hallucinating, unable to talk, legs thrashing, nauseated, so completely disoriented, I felt like I was going to die, and I wanted to it was so horrific. Nurses were unavailable, I had to scream in order to get some help. I know that my writing is scattered. It is because I still feel fuzzy in the brain. I still have leg cramps, nausea, sleepless nights, horrible anxiety, am sneezing all the time-basically all the symptoms of opiate withdrawal. I could go on and on. I really want to spare people from this experience. Do not go to the Waismann program. I spent 30,000 there, am in debt and still feel sick. I also have nightmares about the ICU.
I have come to the conclusion that Rapid Detox is essentially a scam. $30K to get some potential relief from physical withdrawal is absurd. It would be absurd if it worked, and from what I gather it's hit or miss that it even works. What happens if the person relapses after two weeks? Another $30K?
You can detox from any opiate for free, and you can get aftercare that works for free. Or if you're inclined to spend money, you could go to a top-of-the-line inpatient addiction recovery center for 90 days of aftercare in a gorgeous setting. Aside from methadone and suboxone, physical withdrawal is less than a week. Why do you need to spend $30K to detox in 2 days instead of doing it in 5 days for free?
Rapid detox is a scam that preys on desparate people.
The thing about rapid detox that no one seems to get is that you STILL have to go through the post-withdrawal syndrome. Sure, you condense the first several days of withdrawal into 4 hrs. (Which, btw., is an incredible trauma to the nervous system & dangerous too boot!) There have been, to my knowledge, no long term studies comparing the neural healing & general condition of long-term patients of rapid detox v. c/t or taper patients. (This alone, screams 'red flag' to me). From my own research before my detox & from talking to patients that have gone this route, I've seen only mixed results @ best. While the Waismann method is probably the best amongst them, I'd opt for the less brutal, 'non-magic-bullet' route every time. While I think my friend directly above is being a little optimistic asserting that acute w/d's only last 5 days for regular opiates, I do in principle agree that a regular detox & aftercare is safer, saner & a far less costly way to go.
I am just reading these comments on different people that have tried the Waismann method and some sound very disturbing. I am a sister of a brother in his mid 40s that has dealt with opiate addiction for over 10 years . It has been ongoing battle . First off I feel for anybody that is going through this as a family member for the person struggling with addiction them self's . This is a wide epidemic spreading across the world.
My brother just started the rapid detox program . I'm sure there are different clinics that do this program of proclaim to . The one my brother is at he was first taken to a hospital in southern California . The fist day he went through medical screening and then the next day they start the rapid detox under medical MD doctor in a ICU environment . after they released him from the icu he was sent to a recovery program where he has been monitored by an on sight staff of caregivers and trained medical and even a cook . I have been talking to him daily and I think this has probably the hardest thing in his life and will continue to be for a long time .
I really don't believe this was easy process . My brother told me that he was sick and did deal with withdraw in the hospital . He even had a bad panic attach and thought he was be held there as a hostage.I wish I could have been there with him. My brother has tried to tell me over the years what is feels like with the addition , how his brain functions differently . Its like he has been living in a fog and the withdraws well I guess imagine your worst nightmare coming to life. I guess i really wont know until i really get to talk to him more about it. Our conversations have been brief . I want to know he is alright and for him to know im here for him but at the same time I know this is his time and he has to do this and get through it . .
Like i said this has just started and he is in the first few days of being opiate free . I say that him not taking anything. I do believe the drugs are still leaving his body and he has side effects from that . He has lost his appetite , stomach aches , diarrhea , muscle aches , body tremors ... and that is just the physical part .
This had been a very scary experience not only for my brother but my entire family .After talking with my brother this morning and his head nurse I feel more confident that he can get through this .
I will post again as time gos on with his progress and maybe even he will tell his story so others can know what to expect .
I think it is a complete waste of money. GETTING clean is not an issue for us addict. STAYING clean is where many fail. They may have got the opiates out of his body but what happens when he comes home? He does not have the tools he needs for recovery. I wish him luck.
I got the same treatment at local hospital for accidental over dose by a hospital connected pain management M.D.
Difference being I was not put under they just kept pumping the Narcan in me I begged screamed they wanted to strap me down my wife refused and stayed to help hold me down...I saw my dead mother and 2 dead brothers near death???who knows....so now I am 60 addicted to all this **** because of spinal neuro and spinal complications .....woke up in icu 3 days later .....sent to floor and was treated like a junkie......and all they did to me did not work they sent me home with a reduced amount that I did not stick to anyway they tried their best just gives me a guilt complex...
As far as I know the Waismann method(r) is way too expensive for most of us who want anesthesia assisted benzodiazepine detox. Detox is traumatic and much suffering. One of the advantages of anaesthesia assited detox is that you don't experience that suffering and are less likely a recidivist and will not be be traumatized by the hell that is benzo detox Because medical care in the US is so commercialized the Waismann method is propriatary. believe it or not benzo detox is the hardest most painful, longest withdrawal of any drug on this earth. Aneasthesia assisted benzo detox has been used before Waismann. They were just the first to put a trademark on it. In France this method would be made part of the National health service. Here in greedy america it is not. I think it is shameful and selfish for a doctor or set of doctors to make a procedure proprietary. Of course they should get a percentage but not have a lock on the treatment.
Benzo or benzodiazepine(e.g xanax, ativan, clonazepam, etc)withdrawal is one of the hardest, causes much suffering, and dangerous(if you just stop and try to survive the neurological seizures or convulsions on your own)drugs to withdraw and or detox for. The Waismann method is very expensive and i doubt many of us can afford it. From what i gather it is not covered by insurances. Here is a comparison: Heroin anesthesia assisted detox can be as short as one day outpatient. Benzo anesthesia assisted detox takes at least two weeks. Bascially you are "under" for the first 5 days. then there is a week follow up extra week inpatient. There is always a risk of being under anaesthesia for severa days or more but it is very slight.
One of the reasons that being under while going through withdrawal is that you are spared the suffering. Detox is traumatizing. So "being under" saves you the permanent scars of suffering and you are less apt to go back to drugs. From what i am told the anesthesia method has something some nutrients or procedures the re regulate your neurological system that also ease recovery.
In most good hospital detox centers they will "load you up" with phenobarbital, which knocks you out and more than anything prevents seizures that can kill you. However since Waismann has proprietary rights i don't think business laws allow public detox centers to keep you under for more than a day.
I personally feel the anaesthesia method should be available to all, through insurance, medicare or medicaid. You may be able to find a foreign country that does it for half or less than the waismann price, including your traveling expenses.
The irony(or perhaps not)with benzo use is: long term low dose users have the longest and most difficult time. High dose short term users on a fast acting benzo like xanax, get out of detox quicker. I personally went off benzos for almost a year. I had muscle cramps every day, some so bad in the middle of the night i would straighten my leg out and the muscle would tear. Next day i would be black and blue from my *** down to my foot. My doctor decided to put me back on benzos because i was suffering to much. i wish he didn't but then again maybe i might have ended it all if you know what i mean.
When i was started on benzos was back in the 1980's shrinks and doctors were prescribing it like it was candy. It has only been in the past 5 or 10 years that there has been a benzo detox protocol of using drugs to get you off the benzos(this is nothing new. i remember the 1940's film called the guy with the golden are. and when he comes back his friends say Franky how'd you kick the junk--heroin--? answer: they gave me other drugs to get off smack).
You might want to try the slow at home method. that is gradually going from short acting benzo to diazepam(valium). One you gradually cut back your valium intake and quit, you should not have any dangerous neurological effects for about 4 days. but it is a slow, day by day process when your worst withdrawal symptoms come after 5 to 7 days. Even with slow acting valium, i would get yourself into rehab, at the very latest 2 or 3 days after you stopped taking the valium
Just remember this. Im sure Im speaking for most when I say that getting through the acute withdraw period is really the easy part. Staying clean and dealing with day to day life after you stop is 95% of the problem. Thats where the hard work starts.
It depends on how much suffering currently and in the past has much to do with whether detox is traumatic or not. detox from benzos is the worst. if you have had your detox in a poor detox unit, it is the reason for a high recidivism rate.
regarding waismann method, it is outrageously expensive.
It is too expensive for me or many others to try. One of the most important benefits of being under while you are going though withdrawal is psychological. The reason for so much recidivism is that benzo withdrawal pain and suffering is quite severe. Being under anaesthesia removes this psychological association. Of course the medical being under detox involves more than never knowing the pain and suffering of benzo detox. From what i am told recovery is still long but nearly with all the craving, muscle spasms so bad your muscles tear, and all the neurological suffering under conventional benzo detox. You may get "loaded up" the first day with phenobarbital but the rest of the time is pure hell. Most Heroin addicts will tell you that the benzo they were put on to help them get off smack was later much harder to detox from heroin.
Evidently Dr.Waismann and his associates are not unselfish like the great Jonas Salk who when asked why don't you patent the polio vaccine? Salk:"How can you patent the sun"
Perhaps in a foreign country you can get an anaesthia assisted benzo detox but with all these international trade agreements i think they would be pretty hard to find.
I have read scholarly articles and Waismann was not the first to use the anaesthesia benzo detox. He was just the first to patent it.
You would think he would sell franchises to public hospital and get a percentage. but perhaps thats not his fault but the stupid congress and stupid medical laws.
I have been rx'd benzos for 35 years. long term low dose is the most difficult and takes years to get back to normal. i mean i am 60 and suffering enough from arthritis, and iatrogenic prostate procedure which ruined my sex life, and other medical problems.
If i was never scarred for most of my life by an idiot psychiatrist(most are) when after just several days of rest and light activity in asylum(in the best sense of the word. protection from the crazy world and family) and starting to believe and feel i had a new lease on life in this mental health facility where no drugs were used. I had a nervous breakdown, was a lump of sobbing on the floor, a voluntary patient. And on the third day this mother ******* psychiatrist says lets try an experiment. He gives me a neuroleptic. for two weeks i could barely breath and could not stop moving. Dr. Peter Breggin calls it chemical torture. Every day my vitals went towards lethal and had to be taken to the emergency room. besides other drugs like heart drugs, they would give me phenobarbital in the ***. it was the only hour or so of sleep i would get any rest. but the stupid **** shrink could not get through his thick skull that it was the neuroleptic did this to me.
After a year of exhaustion from being on this torture drugs(neuroleptics)for a year. God bless, I got an elder psychiatrist who knew i was suffering from the neuroleptic side effects. He put me on xanax and it was the first time in a year and a half i could relax, smile, sing, play music again. He was my doctor for 6 years. i'll never blame him for unwittingly into benzo dependence.
Put simply, if i was never tortured by psychiatry i would have never got dependence on benzos. im 60 and 40 years of my life has been suffering except for the benzos and now on opioids for my severe premature arthritis. I would love to do the benzo anaesthesia detox. but i can't even come close to the 12,000 usd to go through it. its probably higher than that.
So i only have two things i can do. go through conventional detox and suffer even more for years or: i have saved enough vicodin, clonazepam in several places. I will go to one of my favorite places. take my last vicodin and clonazepam. enjoy the sunset and the shades of twilight with stars, and then shoot myself(you put the muzzle in your mouth. 50% of suicide with fire arm to side of head are unsuccessful). that would be a good peaceful death and hopefully in reincarnation i will be born in a good place and time and be a little song bird :) there is no way that i am going to die a long painful death. what i have described is a good peaceful death.
Some day suicide is done after homicide. not at all with me. I am not going out of this life with another persons blood on my hands. I have a lot of people i detest in my life because they have hurt me, especially medical authority, but i just forget about them. again i will never want to go out of this life with killing someone else. no way. if i ever had to go to war, i would be an unarmed ambulance driver, or a human shield for example for those poor Gazans who are ironcially partially genocided every two years by Israel.
Copyright 1994-2016 MedHelp International. All rights reserved.
MedHelp is a division of Aptus Health.
This site complies with the HONcode standard for trustworthy health information.
The Content on this Site is presented in a summary fashion, and is intended to be used for educational and entertainment purposes only. It is not intended to be and should not be interpreted as medical advice or a diagnosis of any health or fitness problem, condition or disease; or a recommendation for a specific test, doctor, care provider, procedure, treatment plan, product, or course of action. Med Help International, Inc. is not a medical or healthcare provider and your use of this Site does not create a doctor / patient relationship. We disclaim all responsibility for the professional qualifications and licensing of, and services provided by, any physician or other health providers posting on or otherwise referred to on this Site and/or any Third Party Site. Never disregard the medical advice of your physician or health professional, or delay in seeking such advice, because of something you read on this Site. We offer this Site AS IS and without any warranties. By using this Site you agree to the following Terms and Conditions. If you think you may have a medical emergency, call your physician or 911 immediately.