Buprenorphine Detox from Methadone - good, bad?

[The]

Hi everybody,
i need advice about buprenorphine. does it work to get off methadone? what do you experience when you're on it?
anything would be helpful.  thanks    -cat

[pinky to rebecca]

i first just asked the question above.. but it's for my boyfriend's detox, and i need some advice about my own actions and decisions.
my boyfriend's long struggle with methadone has taken my emotions for a ride. i've never met anyone that i am so in love with, and so dedicated to. but on this crazy drug rollercoaster i have to use all my strength to keep my own head above water and not let it affect the way i feel about him. lately i have been stressed completely and find myself popping stupid over the counter anything to calm myself down. it's been a drawn-out process, and he and i are sharing in frustrations.
from my perspective, i recognize that i am enabling him to the 'enth degree.  i give everything i can to keep a smile on his face and his spirits up. he is not lacking in appreciation, just output. his addiction has made him lie, pawn my things when he is broke and i am not around. he is so ashamed by his actions.  i admit it's made a part of me bitter and so angry, a part that i try to keep from my heart where i hold him. i try to stifle these feelings, and only be a positive influence around him. i forgive him time and time again.
i have always been an optimist, and this addiction is the only thing that's ever made me come close to feeling helpless and weary.
hope is the only thing that's kept me going. kept my head up.
please let me know your thoughts. this forum is the only thing i have to turn to.
cat

[alyosha]

Neither good, nor bad - impossible.  You simply can NOT detox from meth on bupe, I know this both from my doc and my own experience.  The ONLY way to get off meth is to stop using meth for at least 4 weeks using dope during that time.  Try to use as little dope as you can - much easier to kick later.  After 4 weeks you're good to kick dope with bupe - 1ml once a day for 3-4 days ijected under skin, not iv.  Works like a charm - I've done it myself too many times by now, and i'm doing it again right now (i'm in the 3-rd week on dope).  Once you kick dope, wait for 7 days clean and go get yourself a naltroxone pellet - that will prevent you from re-lapsing for 3 months.  Need more info on the pellet - let me know.  Good luck and may G. be with you.

[jennyfla]

My husband just detoxed from methadone and oxys, and they used phenobarbital, and klonopin (i think), and a mild muscle relaxer for the cramps.  He was off of everything in 5-days.
Your boyfriend needs a good program, preferably a 28-day program that is able to handle methadone addiction, because he can be a tricking one.  If his dose is higher than 40 mg, you will have a hard time finding a rehab that will even take him prior to a hospital visit.
Good luck, and i hope your boyfriend gets this worked out for himself, and you need to think about what is important to YOU in YOUR life!
Lv Jenny

[jennyfla]

The following describes just what kind of crazy doctor i was dealing with for the 6-months that i went to see him.  I was taking drugs before i went to see him, but he is the kind of doctor that just eggs on addicts, and their addictions!  He gave me an absoluately unimagineable amount of oxys, roxi's and xanax.  Then, he got caught, and left all the addicts he created, to battle the addictions that he helped create!!!  If i had been taking, all along, the amount he was even prescribing me, i would have been one uncomfortable sorry addict!  I was sharing my scripts with my husband :(  and it put us both into a life-fighting struggle to figure out what we were going to do with the big mess we had put overselves in!

http://www.gopbi.com/partners/pbpost/epaper/editions/wednesday/

Unbelieveable!!!
Jenny

[jennyfla]

click on 'local news' right under the date, and read the first article about the oxy prescribing dr!

[wrenagain]

This is Wren, again. I am down to my last 2 vicoprofens and I am scared. I am going out of town this weekend with my hubby to meet some friends at the beach. I want to get off of these things sosososo bad. I want to be my old self. I liked myself better - I took care of myself and had a productive life. I like where I was going - the direction my life was taking. I don't too much like it now. I know my husband can tell a difference - he complains that I never want to do anything anymore and that I seem to have lost all motivation, which is true. Please help and give me some advice. I really rely on this forum. I read it everyday.

Wren

[wrenagain]

please help........I really need someone tonight.

[wrenagain]

did you guys know the "chat" is working again? does anyone want to get on there - is anyone awake???

[jennyfla]

I'm sorry i was offline by the time you got on, i'm in eastern time, but still stay up until 1:00 - 2:00 am lately!
I hope you're ok!
Jenny

[Witchywoman]

Hi Wren,
I'm so glad you posted, and am sorry I was not on last night to talk with you, I could have used it too! I've been thinking about you, wondering how you have been doing and hoping for the best.

I can totally relate to how you are feeling.  It continues to be a struggle for me as well, though I've had to come to terms with the fact that for the time being I do still need the meds for pain. I'm trying to stay in integrity with myself, and take only what treats the pain, not one pill more.

I want to share something that has really helped me, that I learned on this forum.  I've been taking huge ammounts of the Zinc/Mangnesium supplements that a poster named pillpoppa recommended. I was not sure if it was working. But, now that I've been taking them over a week, I think they are. Yesterday, I took a dose of vicoprofen at 3pm. At bedtime, I was not in pain, so I choose to skip the night dose. It was 8 hours since my last dose by then, I was surprised I was not in withdrawal..pre zinc, I would have withdrawals around 6 or 7 hours after my last dose. I slept through the night, and was not even feeling withdrawals when I got up at 8am.  The only thing that I've done differently is the zinc. Lots of it. Give it a try...it can't hurt. I think it is most helpful when you are on it for a week or so first.

Hang in there Wren, I need you as much as you need us! It helps me beyond words to know that you, Jenny, and everyone else is dealing with the same struggles.  

lots of love,
WW

[Angelica]

.............TGIF!!!!!...... Don't know about you guys, but i'm sure glad its Friday!!!!!!!!

[Angelica]

......Not sure if you caught it,but I had a couple of post for you at the bottom of the: "where did the Ultram thread go?"....LOL  Hope your well.....
Love,
Angelica  :o}

[tylerdurden]

Hey Wren,

I know how you feel.  Today I ran out of my percocet and called my doctor and he refilled it.  Gave me 7.5/500.  I didn't even know that percocet came in that strength but from what I understand ther is also a 2.5...5...7.5...10.   One doctor wrote me a prescription fo 60-10/650 percocets.  At the time I was so happy and it felt like I would never run out.  I start to get anxious, depressed, and scared when I run out.  I start to get desperate and start calling old doctors trying to make appointments so they can give me more.  It usually works.  I am not proud of this.  Everytime I run out I think of quitting but the withdrawl get soooo bad.  I did detox before...they gave me buprenorphine.  I don't recomend buprenorphine because ot has nalaxone in it, so it wont get you high (at least thats what the nurse said),  The problem with the nalaxone is that it pulls the opiates off the receptor sites putting you into instant withdrawl.  It made me very sick!!  From my personal experience this is what I would do.  DO NOT try and go cold turkey.  Also I recomend against tappering.  The reason why is because, at least for me, that I don't taper off them...I keep sneaking the pills.  I have no self control when it comes to percocets (in your case Vicoprofen).  What you should do is come clean with your doctor.  Tell him whats going on.  DO NOT feel ashamed by telling him about your addiction.  Doctors have heard it all.  A doctors job is to treat diseases and addiction is a disease.  Ask him about Darvon.  It is an opiate but it is a very mild opiate.  Also take Clonodine for the skin crawling feeling and the aching you feel.  Problem with clonodine is that it will make you very cold and you will feel "drugged".  Also you will feel very tired...which isn't bad because when you detox you will have trouble sleeping.  Your doctor may give you Ativan or Valium to take as well.  The problem with that is that you don't want to give an addict another controlled substance.  The last thing you want to do is trade one addiction for another.  If you are going to be away (like the beach) and not able to detox I would say to continue with the vicodin.  The only reason why I say this is because you don't want to get sick on vacation and spend the night in the ER.  When you get back make an honest effort to try and get off them.

I am in your shoes too.  I desperately want to get off of them but it is soooo hard.  You are headed into the right direction by wanting to quit.  Believe when I say that detox is the easy part...staying off of it is the hardest part.  I've been battling with this for a while.  Try to get your husband's support.  Tell him your goals and tell him it would mean alot to you if he stood by you.  let me know how you are doing.  I hope we beat this thing!!!   You can e-mail me anytime at:  ***@****.  Good Luck!!

Tyler

[Witchywoman]

Hi Angelica,
Yes, I did see your posts, and I'm sorry I'm only responding now...

I went to the website and read your story...woa! You have been through hell and back, to say the least! I think I have a glimmer of understanding by what you mean when you say you are a proof of a miracle.  How did you end up with all those broken bones?  Are you better now?

I really took to heart what you, Wizard, and JB said to me about taking the medication if the pain is real and strong. It is real, and it indeed is strong. No doubt about that.  Where I continue to need help is in maintaining my ability to only take what I need for the pain, rather than taking 2 or 3 extra to chase a high. I've been doing ok the past few days, but every time I need to take my dose, I face the temptation to take more. Every single time.  I really wish that I didn't have pain, though I know no matter what it would be hard to stop.

Angelica, have you had to struggle with the psychological addcition part of all this? If so, how did you handle the need for the pain relief as well as the need to be free of the desire to get high and the psychological addiction?

Thanks for your support..I so need it, and will never forget the kindness that you and others are offering!

love,
WW

[Witchywoman]

I wanted to let you all know one thing that I've started to do in order to help me fight the urge to take more of the pain meds than I am supposed to ...

I've been logging on to the forum when it is time for me to take my meds, and I take them while I'm reading it.  This does help me to stay true to my desire to only use what I need for the pain.

Thank you all..I'm doing this five hours at a time LOL  I know that if I slip, that does not make me a horrible person, but I try to just stay in the moment rather than worry about what I might do in another five hours.

love,
WW

[tylerdurden]

Hello,

I also noticed that since I started reading and posting on this forum I haven't been taking as much pain medicine as I use to.  I would take a couple percocets (my drug of choice) and after about two and a half hours they would wear off.  I didn't want to take another couple because I didn't want to overdose.  But every four hours I would be popping more.  I would do stuff to keep me occupied between dosings.  Now I can honestly say that I go about 6 hours between dosing which is a huge accomplishment for me.  Talking to people and reading their stories on this forum does help with the cravings.  That is why I like this forum the best of all the others on the web.  The reason is because everyone in this forum is honest.  Other forums I would read people's stories about going through great lenghts to get the drugs and say they are not addicts.  I'm glad I could find a web site where people are honest and want to help others.  I remember going to a drug program every morning for three hours and people would have the nerve to ask me for drugs.  I remember this girl asked me what my addiction was and I told her about the percocet and she asked if I had any on me.  When other people in the group found out that I was studying to go to med school they would ask me all these questions about what was the best way to get high because they new I had taken several pharmacology courses and chemistry classes.  It made me angry.  I'm glad to see that here people are serious and want help...not just comming here because the court ordered them to go there (like my other meetings).  I hope I'm not rambling...its late...and I need to go to bed.  

Just wanted to say thanks to you and everyone out there who have helped me realize I am not alone in this battle.  Thanks again.

Tyler

[CannabisDave]

Chronic pain and long-term addiction treatment - how can they really be seperated? I'm an ex-addict long term MMT patient who is also a chronic pain patient - does that mean I have to always be treated like a "junkie" the rest of my life? That's what it amounts to if I'm forced to get methadone at a methadone clinic, because that's how they treat you. Since I'm a pain patient now, I could get buprenorphine to treat pain - I think (Dr. Steve?), since bupe' formulations are available for treating pain, but even though it's now been approved for treating addiction no specific formulation of it has yet to be approved for treating "addiction" (?!). I wonder if switching to bupe' from 'done at the pain clinic will make it easier to titrate my dose down to zero? I'm hoping to get off of methadone using my medical marijuana, and maybe transferring my treatment to bupe' would make it easier to do that? Doctors first have to be licensed to treat addiction before prescribing bupe', and even then they don't have an "approved" formulation of bupe' to prescribe for addiction yet, but it's already available for treating pain so I should be able to get it for that. Sometimes I feel like pulling my hair out of my head because of the illogical "drug" polices our government forces on us - they are making my doctor give me oxycontin now instead of methadone, since he isn't a pain specialist - insanity! If I do switch to buprenorphine from methadone at the pain clinic, I'll let ya'll know if it works. I know many other "pain" patients who are struggling to get off of opioids are really fighting their metabolic disorder/opioid dependence rather than the pain they originally had the opioid prescribed for. For those people wanting to get off of opioids, perhaps switching to buprenorphine is a better choice than methadone? I wonder what Dr. Steve thinks??

[CannabisDave]

I just saw Dr. Steve's reply above (second from top). My understanding is that buprenorphine is available for treating pain already (and it's only a "schedule V" controlled substance), and it has been approved for treating addiction but the problem is there still isn't a formulation available that is approved by the FDA for treating "addiction". In other words, the formulations that are already available for treating pain aren't allowed for treating addiction even if the doctor is a licensed addiction specialist - does that make sense? Is the FDA is getting out of the business of regulating methadone later this year (September?), and if that's true, how will it effect my doctors right to prescribe methadone? I'd appreciate it if Dr. Steve (or anyone) would research that one, because there are a lot of doctors out there who want to prescribe methadone but are afraid of being persecuted like my doctor was (a threatening letter from the "authorities" is all it takes to scare a doctor out of prescribing methdone). Will doctors who aren't pain specialists be able to prescribe methadone for treating pain after the FDA stops regulating it, or will they still have to become licensed to treat addiction first in order to prescribe it (I can be an addiction patient too)? In my case, even though I'm also a pain patient my doctor was told he couldn't prescribe methdone long-term for anyone since he isn't a pain specialist - will that be changing?

[Angelica]

.....See, thats the downside of this whole ordeal.  Its sort of a bitter sweet situation.  I struggled w/ this decision.  First I had the task of locating a doctor that would even prescribe.  They are being put in jail.....where I live.  So, that in itself was difficult.  I've only had my computer for one year.....after that I began searching for info.  I stumbled across this site, and met Thomas, CIn, Brighty and JB.  My original arguement was: how does anyone find a doctor to prescribe enough medication to where someone can take as many as 30 or more pills per day.  I could recall going to the ER on one occasion and being sent home w/ a shabby diagnosis and a bottle of 10 pain pills, and that was to last me untill I got into to see an orthopedist a month or so later.  Come to find out, I had some serious problems.....I walked on this leg for one year, before I found a doctor to tackle the problem....I suffered that whole year.  I was in a mva in '92, and did very well following, but problems started to arrise, which initiated several surgeries, starting in '96, I was to the point where I couldn't stand it anymore.  So, when I found this pain spec. who was willing to treat me for pain(recently), I had to make a major decision, and Thomas and CIn...were big helps in that.  I knew and understood that once I accepted this route...I would be dependant on this medication.  This decision did not come easy for me.  You would have to know me and my situation personally to get the full understanding.  Ya see, my situation is going to progress to the point where I will probably be in a wheel chair.  I have arthritis.....from so many fractures and broken bones, that by the time I reach 40..... it will be really bad.  The degenerative arthritis that I have, usually is not prevelant till someone is in their latter 60s....(get the picture?)  the onset of this arthritis is very premature......  So, I like a heart patient, or diabetic.....will need this medication to live a half decent life.  I also need a hip replacement, but doctors don't want to consider that till I'm in my latter 50s..... Everyones situation is different where chronic pain is concerned, but we should at least be allowed/free to decide what route is best for us.... in some States, patients are not so lucky.  Didn't mean to write a book again, and I'm sure my fellow forum pals have heard enough of this from me....LOL  I just wanted to give you the whole picture the best I could....  Feel free to ask me any questions....I know what your going through.
LOVE,
Angelica

[Angelica]

W.W....not sure if you read this while you were visiting that site:
"In the beginning, and for thousands of years, the entire point of "Medicine" had been to relieve suffering for human kind. Near the end of the 20th Century however, right when science had learned new ways to extract "narcotics" from plants to make them last longer and become more effective, their control was taken away from

[soderbri]

I successfully switched from methadone to suboxone

If you are going to switch from methadone to suboxone, you MUST stop your methadone doses for 3 or so days before taking the suboxone. If you take suboxone while an opiate is in your system it will put you into serious withdrawals. Mehtadone has a huge halflife (at least 72 hours) so this is why you must wait 3 days.

I was on methadone for about a year at 80mg. I went from 80mg to 0mg and entered a 60 day inpatient rehab. This is where I learned that taking suboxone too early will throw you into withdrawal. The Dr. had to wait until I was in full blown withdrawal from the methadone before he satred me on suboxone. It was 3 and a half days of hell. Finaly I was givin 8mg of suboxone and most of my withdrawal symptoms were gone in 10 minutes. Over the next 4 days my dose was increased to 16mg of suboxone 2 times a day. And at that point I felt no withdrawal symptoms at all. I felt great all day long every day.

Over the next 2 1/2 months my dose was gradually lowered to 0mg. Dropping from 16 twice daily, to 12 twice daily, to 8 twice daily, to 8 once daily, to 4 once daily, and finaly to zero. I experieced some minor withdrawals after I went from 4 to zero. They wern't all that bad and they lasted about a week.

I would have to say that my detox went very smoothly. I was very dope sick for the first 4 days after stopping methadone but after my suboxone kicked I felt great. If anyone is planning on switching from methadone to suboxone, I would recommend getting your methadone dose down as low as possible. Around 30mg would be best.

Hope this helps someone.

[gene1]

Hi.. My question for anyon e who now how I can swich from be on 40 mg. of methodone to use Temgesic(Buprenorphine) 0.2 mg subligual tablets.
Please give me adviser if its going to work or not.
Thank you.

[chuckleberry]

my mother has been addicted to pain pills for the last 20 yrs. we have had so many crisis times its not even funny. about a year ago she started on methadone, they have her at 210mg. I have been dealing with her for this last year and I can't do it anymore financially, mentally or physically. I live in Tucson Az and I have been trying to find an inpatient rehab for to go into but they all say they wont take anyone on more than 15 mg. I am at my witts end. I don't know what to do with her. She also takes vicodin and percocet when she can. I know she is in pain but this can't go on. Any suggestions on how someone taking that much can ever stop or where to get help?  Thanx Charlotte

[tammyk_40]

I am glad you asked that question, cause I was wondering the same thing. I am on 180 mgs. of methadone a day. I know thats also a huge dose. I'd like to try to get off the stuff by taking suboxone. I was wondering if I go cold turkey for 3 days off the 180, would I be able to take the sub after those 3 days? or would I have to taper down to like 30 mgs. first? thanks everyone, Tammy