Crack Cocaine

[andrea]

My boyfriend has a crack cocaine addiction. He will go about one or two moths clean then binge for days. He has been using on and off for 10 years. He says he wants to stop but he wont initiate going to NA. He talks and talks about what he should do but never DOES IT. Can my aggressiveness help? If I pick him up and take him, or stay on top of him constantly, will I be helping him? Also, can an at home treatment work if he cant afford expensive programs? Is there a book out there that can help a family detox an abuser themselves? He is not working now and I feel these next three months could be solely devoted to getting him clean, (if he is willing). Can we do it? Anyone who has detoxed themselves, or another crack user, I would appreciate your input.
Thank You

[sorry Andrea, tom looking for Brian, ple]

I apologize for hi-jacking your thread - don't know much about coke detox. The doctor will when he finally answers you.

I am really worried about our good, good friend Brian. He posted one catastrophic message and hasn't posted since. Comon, man, if you're out there, please post something -- anything. I have a very, very bad feeling about this one tonight, JB, Brighty, Marcie et al  ... please let me be wrong ...

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Hi Tom,
Is there no way to get in touch with Cindy and Phil?  I know that they are out of Melbourne, Florida.  There must be a way that they can get in touch with Brian.  It is not like this is a site that is dedicated to bird watching and we want to contact someone out of the blue.  I mean when situations like this come up there must be some kind of back up plan devised.  I know that confidentiality is important on these sites but for God's sake someone could be in real trouble here.  This is very frustrating.  With all Brian has been through, and now his wife and with the new year and all I too am very worried.  I swear Tom, that if Cindy and Phil can help us out on this one I am sending this site a check for sure to keep the site going. Someone MUST monitor this site.  I know in the past that a webmaster has told us that they have eliminated a thread due to extreme obscenity.  I wish they would see our plight and at least let us know if they CANT do anything.  Any internet law Lawyers out there?  My stomach is in knots here.  I think I will be on this site all night now.
Take Care,
Marcie.

[Brighty to Tom and Marcie]

I sent an e-mail to Phil and Cindy at ***@**** and am awaiting a reply in my e-mail box.... I hope you all do the same so they can see how concerned we are. Because medhelp has so many forums... not just this addiction one.... I assume they do not check the boards too thoroughly but they should get their own e-mail. I am also praying for Brian... if any of you hear anything please post right at the top!! Love, Brighty

[Brighty to all]

If you go to the home page for this site ( medhelp international) you will find a "contact" button. Click on it and you will see the e-mail address for Phil and Cindy. There is also the address which Marcie mentioned in Melbourne, FL and a phone number... it's not a toll free. I figured the e-mail would be a good way to make contact over this holiday. Please remember that it is possible they can't contact Brian if he registered with an alias. This is very common on the net because of security reasons... people do not like to put their personal identity out there. So all we can do is give it our best shot. I don't know much about computer technology but I do know that even if you register fictiously that the FEDS or CIA could still track a person via the ISP if it were something serious. I don't know if something like this will qualify though. Let's pray alot. Love, Brighty

[MED HELP INTERNATIONAL]

Good Afternoon,

Phil & I have been trying to track "Brian" down, but have so far been unsuccessful.  Because we don't require people to identify themselves (for privacy purposes), it's sometimes impossible to trace them.  We are working on every lead we have. If anyone knows anything about who "Brian" really is, or where he's from or even his real e-mail address, please e-mail me at:

***@****

Thank you all for being such good friends to all who visit this forum!  We wish you a very happy and healthy new year.

Warm regards,
Cindy & Phil
Med Help International

[Brighty to Cindy and Phil... and everyon]

Thank you so much for your public posting and for your personal reply as well. Anyone who knows anything about Brian, please contact Cindy and Phil at the e-mail they just listed above. We are fortunate that this board exists. I would hope we can all donate the price of a pack of cigs or the price of a fast food lunch and mail to the address above as well. It helps keep this non profit service in place so that we can support eachother. Happy New Year to everyone and please pray for Brian. Love, Brighty

[BRIGHTY TO ANDREA--- PLEASE READ !!]

Dear Andrea,

Your question deserves attention..... and we are all very sorry that you got sidetracked.... I know that the doctor will reply to your question sometime soon. He does not reply daily but then he answers several questions all at one time. What happened was that a regular member here posted about his suicide attempt and then made comments that caused us alarm. We have not heard from him since. I'm sure you can read and figure out what is going on. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to get questions onto this board and liberty was taken to simpy post concerns about Brian under YOUR question because your question was at the top of the board and most easily seen !!! We are normally very polite here and try to refrain from being so rude. Please accept our sincerest apologies. All of us here either live with addiction or are addicts and fully recognize the urgency and seriousness of your concerns about your boyfriend. I am not qualified to respond to you but I know others here are more knowledgeable. I hope they will re-read your question and try to add their information in addition to the reply you get from the doctor. I do know that your boyfriend will likley not be successful unless he gets BOTH professional help and most importantly the support of others who have recovered and can guide, reassure, and confront him as well. This is what NA is about. Love, Brighty

[Brighty to EVERYONE]

While we are waiting to hear news about Brian I hope we can respond to Andrea who posted a very serious question at the top of this thread. Thanks and love to all. Brighty

[To Trish from Kate]

Ex-boyfriend is a crack addict. Believe me when I say you can't make him quit if he doesn't want to. What you can do is find programs in your area that are state funded. Call the health departments in the counties in the state where you live. Also look for rescue missions that offer drug rehab programs, the Salvation Army has programs in some areas. There are also lots of programs that charge a fee based on what you can pay. Nagging, pleading, crying, and threatening from you will not work. Check out the following sites: http//www.crackbusters.com
Pretty good site, I learned alot from it. Also, my dear friend Brighty passed the following on to me: http//www.cocaineaddiction.com  It's the Narconon website, very good info about the disease itself. I called Narconon today, it's is an excellent program that works on healing the whole person along with fighting the disease, however it is quite expensive. Ex has been a heavy crack user for 15 years, has just come off a 7 month binge of $300-$400 a day. He's in jail and we talk everyday. He says the physical detox is not the problem its the extreme mental craving. If you go into the archives of this forum you will see the replys to my post "Crack Hell" I think. Please keep posting.

[To Andrea]

Andrea, I was a crack/powder addict off and on for three years.  In rehab three times and spent inheritence money, stole from friends and relatives and almost BUT DID NOT Prostitute myself for it.  Having established my "credentials" I would first like to say that N.A and C.A. are not always good options.  When I went to Cocaine anonymous, there was no sobriety.  Most people had been clean at the max ninety days.  Cocaine is a very difficult drug to discuss.  Just by mentioning it to another addict, most addicts immediately start "geeking" for it.  It has been five years now and I can think about it without craving it.  Most people who attended N.A. and C.A wound up using again, WITH EACHOTHER!!!!!  I quit finally, on my own with the love an support of my boyfriend.  However, it did not happen overnight. He had left me for the fifth time because of my addiction.  Then he came back and stated that if I was going to be an addict, then by God, so was he.  He then reached for the crack pipe.  I was so horrified by this and so disgusted with my lifestyle(going to the ghetto at 3AM, terrified, etc.) that I stopped.  About two years later, we got into a fight and I moved out.  I hadn't even been thinking about doing coke(at least conciously) and went to a friend's house to stay, who coincidently, was close friends with a dealer.  I wound up at the dealers house for the weekend and basically had sex over the internet on a webcam.  I was so mortified I have never done cocaine or craved it since.  The point is there is nothing a loved one can do until the addict reaches bottom.  When I had defiled myself to a point that even humiliated ME, i stopped.  everytime I thought about using coke again, I remembered the horror of how I was perceived by these guys.  Unfortunately your boyfriend has to hit bottom and stay away from people who use.  That may mean moving to another town, although an addict will always find drugs.  MAKING him go to a meeting is not going to keep him straight.  I don't think there is an at home detoxer, although I have heard that they are developing a drug that will do for cocaine what antibuse does to alcohol.  I am sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear, and it is only my humble opinion.  Talk to your boyfriend and try to hear what HE is saying, not what you want him to say.

[NARCONON IS A SCIIENTOLOGY PROGRAM]

Please don't entertain the narconon program.  This is the Scientology's version of treatment.  Truly.  Many celebrity scientologists, for example, the actress who starred in veronica's closet and cheers's (I can't remember her name), are a product of narconon and a member of the scientology cult.  It is expensive because the purpose of scientology is to cater to celebrities and keeping up the celebrity center in L.A. costs a lot of money.  Look it up for yourself if you don't believe me.  I am for anything that works, but narconon is not going to be beneficial to a non-celebrity or someone who does not want to become a cult member.

[To Brighty]

Brighty, I say this with all respect:  I have read all your posts and have been very moved by what you have to say.  I just noticed the refererence ot Narconon that you recommended.  The banner post about narconon being part of scientology is true.  It is none of my business, but are you part of scientology?  If you are, could you tell me what is truly is?  I have heard good and bad things.  Is it really a cult, or a group of spiritual people.  Again, I am just very curious and would like any info.  Do you know anyone who has been helped by narconon.  I am willing to try anything.  Thanks for listening

[someone]

Narconon. Another Scientology scam by L.Ron Hubbard.
Extensive collection of articles about Narconon/Scientology and its unethical
attempts to establish itself as a genuine drug rehabilitation program.
www.Scientology's Affiliated Organisations: Narconon

Critical commentary on Scientology's bogus humanitarian
programmes in the UK
www.demon.co.uk (Bidded Listing) users.wineasy.se (Bidded ListNarconon Information

[ Main ] Narconon Information Narconon is a drug-
rehabilitation programme run by the Church of Scientology. Its methods
are, to say the least, unconventional, and have been roundly criticised by
doctors and other scien
www.gate.net (Bidded Listing) ing)

[Brighty to the 3 anonymous Posters]

Dear Friends.... Whoa !!! It is generally respectful to identify oneself, especially if one is going to be a so called expert on any given topic. You have sent 3 anonymous posts, 2 of which  which border on hysteria. However, you do not offer what you do feel is an appropriate and valid method of treatment.  
The first thing you all need to realize is that I NEVER posted here about Narconon. I did however hear of the program and investigated to the extent that any one person can try to learn about a treatment option. They have been on the net a long time and since no one treatment program can guarantee a cure they are in the same category as anyone else at this point. Phoenix house is a very famous therapeutic community that boasts a 75 % success rate. They never tell you that they only have a 15% graduation rate at best !! Their methods are so traumatic and confrontational that only a slim number of people can tolerate their program.
Kate appropriately mentioned in her post to Andrea that I had recommended Narconon or used some similar words. I did this in a personal e-mail to her.. not on this board. She confided in me and I listed it as one of the programs I know of that has an ALTERNATIVE SENTENCING program, as her boyfriend is in jail. Not all judges and not all jurisdictions offer or mandate treatment for drug offenders. While I have no personal experience with Narconon, I would not arbitrarily rule it out as a treatment option, especially if someone is in jail and they offer an opportunity for treatment. Jail is NEVER treatment.. PERIOD.

No, I am not in any way affiliated with scientology and know little about them. I am a practicing Roman Catholic and have been all my life.  I have no interest in changing either. The particular detox methods they use at Narconon are a sauna and herbal cleansing formula that L.Ron Hubbard prescribed LONG before anyone started a church based on his dianetics teachings and LONG before Narconon existed. Frankly, I hope to find the formula... anyone can do it at home I'm sure. I do not know anything about celebrities although I read that Kirstie Alley went there for her alcohol addiction... she has many years clean for what ever it's worth. Lots of celebrities attend Betty Ford and Hazeldon programs and they are some of the costliest treatments out there... so now what... do you wish to denounce those programs also.... ????? Seems to me that you are coming from a fear based belief.... don't you think that the Christian type "Jesus" rehabs try to convert people also ?? You have to decide where your information came from and if it is accurate or not. Maybe you should do some RATIONAL research and try to deal with facts... whatever they may be.

I have no clue what it is about the scientologists that raises all the hair on everyone's heads. Maybe they are kooks .... I know alot of people think that my religion is the wrong one also. I know the mormons have some rehabs too.... and wow... they are very dogmatic..... so get a grip and try to decide what it is you are really reacting to here. EArly christians were considered a cult as were the extreme and ascetic jews. Some modern Jews consider Messianic Jews to be a cult... christians refer to them as Jews for Jesus... so whoever you are, mr. or ms. anonymous I think you should state what your agenda really is.

To the last anonymous poster... so what if the unconventional methods are not endorsed by doctors and scientists... since when are doctors and scientists experts on drug rehabilitation anyway ??? Who do you know that has an addiction got healed by a doctor ??  I would also challenge you to post here to us just what IS a genuine drug rehabilitation program. You seem to have beliefs about what it isn't ... so kindly affirm your post by signing your name and providing us with your information.

My daughter has been in 9 rehabs... the only one that worked was the one she allowed to work.... and the one that provided 95% mental health treatment and 5 % relapse prevention... there is more to healing than the paradigms that you seem to cling to so vigorously. If scientology is a bad group or bad church then that may very well be... but I would also need to know if the Narconon program is selling it's patients their religion. If you can provide that here it may be helpful. I do wish to repeat that I never once posted a preference on this board for any one particular treatment program.... I don't know what has upset you so.... I am secure in my life and my beliefs. I simply gave Kate their web site address as an option for her to seek.

I do expect for any one who is upset to speak rationally and identify themselves.... if you are able to that is. To the second person above who posted, I have no personal information about anyone who attended the Narconon program... I have researched MANY programs and only can tell you that at some point when nothing else works we all need to reach for an alternative option. Narconon is not a 12 step program... so perhaps they are worth learning about. Maybe if we use facts and reason instead of hysteria and misinformation we will open ourselves up to more possibilities.. this is true of everything in life.. not just this topic. Best wishes to all , Brighty

[tom to thread]

I don't know with any specificity what narconon is. I know that AA and NA are based on the principles developed by Bill W. and his fellow founders of AA. If Narconon has anything to do with Scientology, I say run far and run fast. Stick to the simplicity, openness and time-proven legitimacy of Alcoholics Anononomous and Narcotics Anononomous. Scientology is a shadowy cult wrapped in layers of pseudo-intellectual nonesense. I sincerely hope Brighty has not been drawn into this shameless bastardization of the great Bill W's thought and work.

[tom to Brighty]

god am I jumpy ... never thought you had anything to do with those people ... but just the suggestion was enough to start me typing in alarm. got to calm down. so worried about Brian, Brighty. What do you think has befallen our friend? I'm just sick about it.

[Brighty to Tom]

Tom... did you write those posts ????????????????? If you did I am surprised !! I did not think you would post something anonymous. And from your comment it does not appear that you read my reply.... I am not at all involved with scientology nor do I espouse their beliefs.. I don't even know for sure what they are.... I hope you and everyone will read my post above. However, I do not apologize in the least for sending Kate a private e-mail and suggesting she investigate them as a treatment option. What in heaven's name am I on the hot seat for anyway ???? Am I supposed to believe that the 12 step programs are the only paths to healing ?? I would have no clue that Scientology is as you say, "a shadowy cult wrapped in layers of pseudo intellectual nonsense".... maybe that's true but then again maybe it's just what those who do not fully understand it think. Maybe it makes sense and works for certain people. It's a good thing you were not a jew during the inquisition. My point is that we need to move on here... so what if their program is affiliated with Scientology.... does that mean it is not a good program? I sent my daughter to 9 rehabs most of which had very poor understanding of treating her underlying problems.. they were totally ineffective. The relapse rate in 12 step programs is frighteningly high also. In fact my daughter is working a 12 step program and I support that. But by the same token I have a big problem with a philosophy that says that relapse is a normal part of recovery or that recovery is a series of relapses... what a negative and self defeating philosophy people buy into. This is simply not the case for everyone. So there are flaws all around the treatment communities as we know them. Best wishes, Brighty

[tom to Brighty!!! Anon posts not me!]

no, no, no .. Brighty, I never post anonamously!!! Please don't think that was me. I would never speak to you that way. I was really just spouting a bit about my take on Scientology. Nothing else to do while waiting for news on Brian, I guess.

if you must know ... I revere you ... you are an old soul with much to teach. I sit at your feet and listen ...

[To Trish from Kate]

Whoa! Everybody calm down I only referred to the Narconon site for information about the disease. It does tell many FACTS about cocaine/crack addiction. In no way was I endorsing any type of religious beliefs. Also it is quite unfair to be jumping on Brighty, she has been so kind to me, to all of us. This is all a learning process to me and I guess I just learned a lesson on privacy and jumping to conclusions. Brighty my deepest apologies. Kate

[To Trish from Kate]

I guess I am looking for the "miracle" cure. I will never close my mind to any suggestions that anyone makes. I will research it and form my own opinions. If Ronco made a product to cure addiction and did late night informercials for it would I buy it, No of course not, but I would watch it to learn what I could.

[Brighty to Tom.... with love :-)))))]

Tom.... I did not actually think you wrote them but you made a comment about "typing in alarm" and I possibly misread that to mean you wrote those... please accept my apologies !!!! Hey, have you been to bed yet, my friend??? Please do not say those things about sitting at my feet and listening... it's silly !!! I have learned here from you and JB and soooooo many others. We all have our own brand of communicating. I do tend to be diplomatic but I do not for a minute believe I offer any more than anyone else. You have every right to your opinions on Scientology and may in fact be correct in your beliefs. I just wanted to make it clear to whomever posted those comments that they should provide some concrete reasons why this would be a bad treatment option. I suggest that anyone who is wondering check out the sites and see what they have to offer. It's free to do that. www.alternative-sentencing.com   or www.narconon.com and you will see that they are very up to date, and provide more information than nearly any other treatment program I have researched. I am not clear though if there is some reason to believe that they may do something like try to convert their patients or brainwash them... I am not an alarmist so I did not consider if this may be the case.  I realize that I don't know what I don't know. Love, Brighty

[Brighty to Kate]

Kate.. believe me... there are no apologies necessary !! I am not upset. I was not too thrilled about anonymous posts, however. I am very aware that the scientologists are viewed with a jaded eye by many. I also realize they are pushy and tend to be somewhat self serving... but that also is an ear mark of many religious groups. Honestly, I suppose I don't know what it is that has so many people up in arms though. They seem to be offering a good treatment program... I don't know anyone who has been through it... I do know alot of people who do the traditional ones... over and over and over... so you know... they may have something that is cutting edge and maybe they have helped people. The premise that the metabolites of drugs stay in the body for years is very correct and medically accurate... lots of stuff stays lodged in our fatty tissue including heavy metals and pollutants.  They use this deep cleansing method and sweats to help remove these toxins which are believed to be one reason why cravings for durgs continue for years sometimes. if the moonies are offering it I may not want to be a moonie but I sure would like to have the treatment... I think you all get my drift. Love to you Kate and I hope you find ways to help your boyfriend at this painful time in your lives. Love, Brighty

[From Aunt Lindy to Mariah]

Hi Andrea!
What a thread your question has turned into!  I wanted to tell you that I recently bought two books:

1) Willpower's not Enough Recovering from Addictions of Every   Kind.
  On the back cover it says that "This book will show you how to change your life-style and to recover from your addiction".  It also has different Praises about the book:  "Willpower is a comprehensive book that helps us understand addictions.  The section on relapse is the best I have ever read"  Patricia Gorman Author of Breaking the Cycle of Addiction.
  Another is "Willpower's Not Enough could be THE book on overcoming addictions... the best part of the book is the concrete steps it offers to recover from them..." Judy Tatelbaum author of You Dont have to Suffer.

2) How to Quit Drugs for Good. Written by Jerry Dorsman BAC

   Contains over 100 proven techniques to help you free yourself from chemical dependency and get on with your life.  It is a step by step guide that shows you:
   How to completely stop your cravings for Addictive Drugs
   How to undo the damage caused by drugs and regain control of your life.
   How to make Key changes in your life that will improve the way you feel.

   It also says that You CAN live your life free of Addiction.
   You CAN get to the other side
   This book will show you the way.

ANDREA, on the back of this book it says that you can learn to
  Decide when and how you want to quit
  DEVELOP YOUR OWN TREATMENT PLAN
  Choose the techniques that will work for you
  Create your own Success.
This book is a series of self discovery exercises, worksheets, checklists.

Andrea I hope these books will maybe help you.  They looked really good to me.  I ordered them through Amazon.  The second book I got for a third of the price because through AMAZON some bookstore was selling a used one through the site.  I hope this helps. Please keep us posted.

Sincerely,
Marcie

  

[vickyv to brighty]

Dear Brighty, i hope you had a great holiday season.  My husband is catholic and while I was raised southern baptist(yikes) I have enjoyed going to the beautiful masses at his cathedral.  All who believe in Christ are welcome in any God fearing church.  However, this is where scientology differs. It is not a Judeo-Christian religion.  It does not accept Jesus or anyone as a savior or higher power.  From what I have gathered, it is at best a new age religion or cult, if you will, that believes all you need in life is what is within your own mind and body, not any kind of superior being, which is my Lord Jesus Christ.  Also, Scientologists, while not actively pursuing members may be more effective with their treatment BECAUSE it is combined with the scientology training, however subtle or overt.  Having said this, I do not believe that aspect is any different from the 12 step program that believes that by following the specific guidelines established by Bill W. you will be successful.  While I don't condone C.A or N.A , I have met wonderful people in A.A.  The point is, as you yourself have mentioned, by not knowing enough about Scientology, you do not understand what Tom, the anonymous posters and myself worry about.  They are cloaked in secrecy.  Why is that?  I shout my spiritualness anywhere I can, but one cannot even find a definition about Scientology.  Please research it, Brighty, before believing that any religion is good.  Believing Scientology is a religion with merit is similar to saying wicca and voodoo has its good points.  Love, Vicky