Aa
Day 22-Sub free
So, I don't want to talk about me today, I am getting tired of ME, ME, ME and more ME all of the time. ME is doing fine today, along with everyone in ME's Family. What I want to talk about today is how I have come down REALLY HARD on Suboxone and the Doctor's that provide it. I was thinking, laying in bed (of course) last night that this might be very discouraging to someone that may be shooting dope, or having a really gnarly time with a serious pill habit.This may be the only solution for someone, and it may be a good idea for them, it could save someone from overdosing or blowing their liver out. So I want to say a few of the positives that I experienced when I first strated Subs and then give my unsolicited advice if you are thinking about going the Suboxone route. Before I got on Subs I was consumed with obsessive thoughts of where my next pills were coming from, when I was getting low, it was hard to focus on anything else.Id been through w/d many many times, knew it wasn't that bad for me 4 days and I was feeling okay, but I STILL was terrified of doing it all over again. So Suboxone immediately took that all away, obviously, but I wasn't as imformed then and I was AMAZED. I could live my life without the obsessive thoughts, and 3 years later during my W/D I still don't obsess over pills or getting back on Subs, so theres that. It does allow you to return to a normal life, get your sh** in order and start living like a (semi)normal person, but once you do that I suggest you work on getting off as soon as you can. If you are planning to go to a sub dr this is my advice to you: Research all things Suboxone before you go and arm yourself with questions, I didn't do this, and I regret it. Ask your Dr. how long do they expect to keep you in the program and if they have a taper schedule for you, or if you are expected to do it yourself. I had to do it myself, my dr, would have me on 16mg 3 yrs later if that's what I wanted. Ask your dr. what he knows about the W/D process and if he has a plan to help you through that, or if your just going to be on your own. To me this is the most important, if he tells you you will not experience any W/D and you are basically a drama queen, RUN to another DR. A Dr, that doesn't believe or understand what Sub W/D is, is not going to be much help in your aftercare, which brings me to my last piece of advice, Therapy or meetings during your treatment and after is something you must consider, I know, I know, you don't need that psychobabble b,s, but you do, and I felt the same way 3 yrs ago. So, I believe if your ready to get clean, you will, some way some how, but if Suboxone is going to be your choice,j just arm yourself with knowledge and have a plan.As far as the W/D I am living proof, it gets better, and by focusing on all the bad parts, you don't let in enough of the good parts, and there are many. So good luck, good karma, good day, good bye, for now, I hope Ive helped someone, that's my main goal through all of this documentation in the first place. Peace out XX C.
I know you don't wanna focus on yourself but 22 days!!! That's f'n awesome in my book!...you're so right on about what you said about suboxone. It sure helped me when I needed it to. I just wish my doc would've been more informed about it...this was back in 2004 when I started it so he didn't know sh*t, now 10 years later he thinks I'm crazy for going off of it and I should keep "maintaining" on it. There are some wonderful docs out there that really know their sh*t, people just need to research first...I wish I would've...
@ Tony:
Compared to the vomiting, shakes, and shhhhh, you know, I felt good enough
Absolutely! (Mine was brutal too, I have little memory of the first month. I do remember not being able to lie down @ all for three days b/c of a form of RLS that involved my whole body, the runs & vomiting. I lost 20 lbs & didn't start gaining it back 'til this past spring. (Yaaay Spring!). I also used Kratom @ a very low dose for a month in order to be able to move around after the acute w/d eased a bit. I dropped it quickly, though.
I guess my point (which I didn't express well enough) about your M'done to Subs experience was the first part of the equation -- that M'done was a 'recreational' DOC for you & therefore you have a different association with it than I do. (Are you smiling @ my use of the word 'recreational', there? Nods in recognition!) In the end, though, we basically used Subs in the same way -- for an acute duration, specifically as a step-down, stop-gap measure to allow us to literally make it through. I think that we were both deadly in earnest & as you said, that's what REALLY makes it work. That & a good plan to keep it that way!
Again, my experience totally tallies w/ yours re: the 'personality' changes after a year or more.
It was a struggle without landmarks for a long time. But things really started falling into place. For me, it's been happening by leaps & bounds. It seems like there's been almost constant movement for me in the past half year this way. I find I barely recognize myself sometimes. It's an empowering & awesome experience. I've found that everything I've surmounted in the interim has given me a solid sense of self-belief & helped me to develop skills that I never had. Therefore, I'm deeply grateful for it all & for this chance that so many never get. I can look back w/o too much rancor or pain now on the past & take meaning/lessons from it where I never could before. It's profoundly satisfying to be able to examine & face everything without the blinders on -- to live in the moment & care about the future! The Good, The Bad, The Ugly -- I see them differently now -- without such glaring differences between them. What a powerful feeling to no longer be in thrall. I'm finding 'me' worthy of my own attentions & while I'm not perfect by a long shot, that's Okay. I find the path exhilarating & it's great to see others you guys doing the same.
If you feel you don't have hope, bear down & make it happen. Reach for that grit -- dig deep, experiment, believe in you, make it your mantra -- build your skills. They're there folks, just waiting..waiting. It may not be easy but nothing worthwhile is & it's so worth it!:))
Thank you guys! :)
Compared to the vomiting, shakes, and shhhhh, you know, I felt good enough
Absolutely! (Mine was brutal too, I have little memory of the first month. I do remember not being able to lie down @ all for three days b/c of a form of RLS that involved my whole body, the runs & vomiting. I lost 20 lbs & didn't start gaining it back 'til this past spring. (Yaaay Spring!). I also used Kratom @ a very low dose for a month in order to be able to move around after the acute w/d eased a bit. I dropped it quickly, though.
I guess my point (which I didn't express well enough) about your M'done to Subs experience was the first part of the equation -- that M'done was a 'recreational' DOC for you & therefore you have a different association with it than I do. (Are you smiling @ my use of the word 'recreational', there? Nods in recognition!) In the end, though, we basically used Subs in the same way -- for an acute duration, specifically as a step-down, stop-gap measure to allow us to literally make it through. I think that we were both deadly in earnest & as you said, that's what REALLY makes it work. That & a good plan to keep it that way!
Again, my experience totally tallies w/ yours re: the 'personality' changes after a year or more.
It was a struggle without landmarks for a long time. But things really started falling into place. For me, it's been happening by leaps & bounds. It seems like there's been almost constant movement for me in the past half year this way. I find I barely recognize myself sometimes. It's an empowering & awesome experience. I've found that everything I've surmounted in the interim has given me a solid sense of self-belief & helped me to develop skills that I never had. Therefore, I'm deeply grateful for it all & for this chance that so many never get. I can look back w/o too much rancor or pain now on the past & take meaning/lessons from it where I never could before. It's profoundly satisfying to be able to examine & face everything without the blinders on -- to live in the moment & care about the future! The Good, The Bad, The Ugly -- I see them differently now -- without such glaring differences between them. What a powerful feeling to no longer be in thrall. I'm finding 'me' worthy of my own attentions & while I'm not perfect by a long shot, that's Okay. I find the path exhilarating & it's great to see others you guys doing the same.
If you feel you don't have hope, bear down & make it happen. Reach for that grit -- dig deep, experiment, believe in you, make it your mantra -- build your skills. They're there folks, just waiting..waiting. It may not be easy but nothing worthwhile is & it's so worth it!:))
Thank you guys! :)
@Annie-
I think my low expectations of sub are the difference in my experience with them, which would make it different than your Methadone to H. I didn't feel good on subs, not really. Compared to the vomiting, shakes, and shhhhh, you know, I felt good enough. I wasn't trying to function or find my balance on sub, which is what maintenance is, IMO. I was just getting through the horrid physical withdrawal that 250mgs methadone gives. It felt like I could have died from withdrawal, which usually isn't possible, but without iv fluids or something, I may have dehydrated and collapsed. I could stand up and talk on subs, that felt amazing at the time. They worked great for my intention, little did I know the methadone detox would continue after that, for a looong time.
It's actually all subjective. Subs work for the people who REALLY want them to, so does methadone or aftercare. My friend, who is a sub lifer, is one of the only exceptions I have seen where sub is helpful after a year. He was on 1800mgs of Oxycontin, he should be dead and is afraid to stop subs, relapse is certain death for him. After a year seems to be the point at which the detox and personality changes really get rooted, just an observation in my circles. I thought 6 months would be like 6 years use, due to all the horror stories and my fragile state of addict mind. My lack of trust of Western medicine made it hard for me to do what a doctor said. I think that combination is a dangerous mix for starting a new opiate. So it's probably best I only took it to keep me from being violently ill, or that's what makes me feel better about it, after the fact.
This is a good discussion, I hope those who are thinking of using maintenance drugs get a chance to read some of these experiences.
I think my low expectations of sub are the difference in my experience with them, which would make it different than your Methadone to H. I didn't feel good on subs, not really. Compared to the vomiting, shakes, and shhhhh, you know, I felt good enough. I wasn't trying to function or find my balance on sub, which is what maintenance is, IMO. I was just getting through the horrid physical withdrawal that 250mgs methadone gives. It felt like I could have died from withdrawal, which usually isn't possible, but without iv fluids or something, I may have dehydrated and collapsed. I could stand up and talk on subs, that felt amazing at the time. They worked great for my intention, little did I know the methadone detox would continue after that, for a looong time.
It's actually all subjective. Subs work for the people who REALLY want them to, so does methadone or aftercare. My friend, who is a sub lifer, is one of the only exceptions I have seen where sub is helpful after a year. He was on 1800mgs of Oxycontin, he should be dead and is afraid to stop subs, relapse is certain death for him. After a year seems to be the point at which the detox and personality changes really get rooted, just an observation in my circles. I thought 6 months would be like 6 years use, due to all the horror stories and my fragile state of addict mind. My lack of trust of Western medicine made it hard for me to do what a doctor said. I think that combination is a dangerous mix for starting a new opiate. So it's probably best I only took it to keep me from being violently ill, or that's what makes me feel better about it, after the fact.
This is a good discussion, I hope those who are thinking of using maintenance drugs get a chance to read some of these experiences.
Hi all & good morning :)
@ Motye:
My dr told me i would have to be on subs for life....********! When its time, and your tired of being tired, you know it!
(Shakes head in disgust & then nods in total recognition)
This is a particular pet peeve of mine w/ Sub & M'done 'Drs.' (it's in quotes b/c they take an oath to not harm -- where's the healing in all this?)
A few excerpts from the Classic Version of the Hippocratic Oath:
I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.
I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect.
Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief
I too got tired of being sick & tired -- of the lies & of all the physical & spiritual fallout I saw in myself & others on these drugs! NO ONE has to be a 'Lifer' unless they allow themselves to continue buying into the Big Lie. No one should live that way. Congrats to you Motye for opting out. You're a warrior!
@ Carrie Anne: Thanks for giving others such an insightful, even-handed & honest accounting of your experiences re: Suboxone! What often galls me about Subs in particular is that they're the new 'cash cow' -- that too often these Drs. callously or ignorantly put patients on needlessly high doses that don't provide additional relief but instead exacerbate this drugs nasty side effects & make it even harder to come off. I think that it's criminal that some Drs. allow their patients to believe that they're 'clean' off opiates while on a narcotic that binds even more tightly to receptor sites than M'done & insidiously stores in your bones & tissues the same way! We still have folks come through here that don't understand they're on an opiate & a much stronger opiate than their DOC. It's been touted by a certain segment of the medical establishment as a 'magic bullet' which I find cynical as hell, not to mention negligent. There's an ever-increasing flood of bewildered folk on forum these days who've awoken to discover they're in a worse place w/ Subs than w/ their original drug. Like Weaver mentioned, it's the fastest growing narcotic in the world. I just hate to see people (& kids especially) who might have come off of pills or H but were directly corralled to the nearest Sub clinic.
Of course, as you said, it's also incumbent on all of us to be proactive! It's our lives, our bodies @ stake & it's up to us to do the research. Great point & I couldn't agree more. It must have been maddening to be told by that Dr. (& your gf) that detox off Subs is painless & that your suffering was just 'drama'! Basically, the Drs. who don't warn you up front & keep you on M'done or Subs for yrs. either want the continued income @ the expense of your life or they have no in-depth knowledge about addiction/detox. Many have no faith in our ability to quit it as the recidivism rate is so high. (I can't imagine why when the system is set-up the way it is).
I just want to congratulate you again today for doing your own thinking & for taking the 'Road less traveled'. You're Amazing! I'm proud of you for the strides that you've made so early. Keep working your recovery, keep feeling -- even the not so good stuff ;)) You're Rockin' this, Dop! :)
@ Weaver:
Howdy, T! :) Like you, I've heard of good Sub Drs. (online) but have never met one or heard of one from those who were close to me locally. Like you (uncannily, like you, in fact) I used Subs for several weeks to come off a difficult & longstanding M'done habit. Unlike you, though, I used Bupe for a longer period when it first was introduced in a 'test' back in '99 or so. I'd been on the clinic & was living w/ an H dealer @ the time. I drifted away from the place & started using every day. I put the brakes on w/ Subs maintenance. It did not work for me @ all. I felt really depressed on it, had a constant low-grade headache, marked apathy/low energy, swollen liver, irritability, poor sleep, etc. I gave it a shot for a couple of mos. & then went back on the clinic. I heard the same sorts of reports from friends who subsequently tried this 'new' drug. They couldn't seem to stick it. It's important to note that these were all folks who were either serious heroin users &/or had previously been on M'done maintenance. I noticed that they'd end up selling their Subs or would not take it so that they could do something else. I now believe that Subs are difficult for many 'hardcore', long-term opiate addicts (particularly those who've done M'done) to adjust too. It's probably the parital-agonist thing. When I detoxed using Bupe, it had the same unpleasant effect on me & I didn't really give myself a chance to acclimate to it as I wanted off all opiates, disliked the feeling of it & was well wary of it by then.
What spooked me about Subs initially was that it was touted as relatively harmless, etc. when no one had done long-term human studies on it! We know a lot more about the effects of chronic M'done use than we do about Subs @ this point but it's now trickling in & I believe the honeymoon will soon be over.
I too, have lost friends to M'done but not Subs. I would point out though, that those who dies were using it recreationally & were not on a clinic. In fact, I've never known anyone that has died (even @ super-high doses) on a clinic without being on other drugs concurrently (like benzos, alcohol, fentanyl patches, etc).
I still believe that there's a harm-reduction value to both drugs in dire cases but that the person embarking on it should be well-informed & that they should detox as soon as they can see their way to it. I think that both are shamelessly over-prescribed in cases where other options are still available. All of these should be exhausted before resorting to Subs or 'Done. The people who benefit the most & seem to have the easiest time are those who get off in a year or less. I also believe that both drugs should be administered @ their lowest possible 'blocking' dose!
T, the difference b/w our experiences as I see it, is that M'done was your actual DOC. For me it was Heroin. So M'done was to my Heroin what Subs were to your M'done: a life-saver. I never had had any real desire to abuse it & didn't get high off it. It didn't work that way for me after H. (I had a really high tolerance for opiates -- maybe that's part of it too). Anyway, like you said, any plan that works is the right plan!! :)
I'm a little over a month away from my two years & I'm right with you. It took me wellllll over a year to start feeling better & I'm still working on it. Recently, I've been experiencing a lot of mental/emotional healing which I think is the key to the whole thing. The body & sleep will follow. It's amazing what this stuff does to us. I know it's just a 'symptom' & not the original cause but man! What a syptom! (smiling)
So very glad we're here & not still there is all I can say :)
@ Motye:
My dr told me i would have to be on subs for life....********! When its time, and your tired of being tired, you know it!
(Shakes head in disgust & then nods in total recognition)
This is a particular pet peeve of mine w/ Sub & M'done 'Drs.' (it's in quotes b/c they take an oath to not harm -- where's the healing in all this?)
A few excerpts from the Classic Version of the Hippocratic Oath:
I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.
I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect.
Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief
I too got tired of being sick & tired -- of the lies & of all the physical & spiritual fallout I saw in myself & others on these drugs! NO ONE has to be a 'Lifer' unless they allow themselves to continue buying into the Big Lie. No one should live that way. Congrats to you Motye for opting out. You're a warrior!
@ Carrie Anne: Thanks for giving others such an insightful, even-handed & honest accounting of your experiences re: Suboxone! What often galls me about Subs in particular is that they're the new 'cash cow' -- that too often these Drs. callously or ignorantly put patients on needlessly high doses that don't provide additional relief but instead exacerbate this drugs nasty side effects & make it even harder to come off. I think that it's criminal that some Drs. allow their patients to believe that they're 'clean' off opiates while on a narcotic that binds even more tightly to receptor sites than M'done & insidiously stores in your bones & tissues the same way! We still have folks come through here that don't understand they're on an opiate & a much stronger opiate than their DOC. It's been touted by a certain segment of the medical establishment as a 'magic bullet' which I find cynical as hell, not to mention negligent. There's an ever-increasing flood of bewildered folk on forum these days who've awoken to discover they're in a worse place w/ Subs than w/ their original drug. Like Weaver mentioned, it's the fastest growing narcotic in the world. I just hate to see people (& kids especially) who might have come off of pills or H but were directly corralled to the nearest Sub clinic.
Of course, as you said, it's also incumbent on all of us to be proactive! It's our lives, our bodies @ stake & it's up to us to do the research. Great point & I couldn't agree more. It must have been maddening to be told by that Dr. (& your gf) that detox off Subs is painless & that your suffering was just 'drama'! Basically, the Drs. who don't warn you up front & keep you on M'done or Subs for yrs. either want the continued income @ the expense of your life or they have no in-depth knowledge about addiction/detox. Many have no faith in our ability to quit it as the recidivism rate is so high. (I can't imagine why when the system is set-up the way it is).
I just want to congratulate you again today for doing your own thinking & for taking the 'Road less traveled'. You're Amazing! I'm proud of you for the strides that you've made so early. Keep working your recovery, keep feeling -- even the not so good stuff ;)) You're Rockin' this, Dop! :)
@ Weaver:
Howdy, T! :) Like you, I've heard of good Sub Drs. (online) but have never met one or heard of one from those who were close to me locally. Like you (uncannily, like you, in fact) I used Subs for several weeks to come off a difficult & longstanding M'done habit. Unlike you, though, I used Bupe for a longer period when it first was introduced in a 'test' back in '99 or so. I'd been on the clinic & was living w/ an H dealer @ the time. I drifted away from the place & started using every day. I put the brakes on w/ Subs maintenance. It did not work for me @ all. I felt really depressed on it, had a constant low-grade headache, marked apathy/low energy, swollen liver, irritability, poor sleep, etc. I gave it a shot for a couple of mos. & then went back on the clinic. I heard the same sorts of reports from friends who subsequently tried this 'new' drug. They couldn't seem to stick it. It's important to note that these were all folks who were either serious heroin users &/or had previously been on M'done maintenance. I noticed that they'd end up selling their Subs or would not take it so that they could do something else. I now believe that Subs are difficult for many 'hardcore', long-term opiate addicts (particularly those who've done M'done) to adjust too. It's probably the parital-agonist thing. When I detoxed using Bupe, it had the same unpleasant effect on me & I didn't really give myself a chance to acclimate to it as I wanted off all opiates, disliked the feeling of it & was well wary of it by then.
What spooked me about Subs initially was that it was touted as relatively harmless, etc. when no one had done long-term human studies on it! We know a lot more about the effects of chronic M'done use than we do about Subs @ this point but it's now trickling in & I believe the honeymoon will soon be over.
I too, have lost friends to M'done but not Subs. I would point out though, that those who dies were using it recreationally & were not on a clinic. In fact, I've never known anyone that has died (even @ super-high doses) on a clinic without being on other drugs concurrently (like benzos, alcohol, fentanyl patches, etc).
I still believe that there's a harm-reduction value to both drugs in dire cases but that the person embarking on it should be well-informed & that they should detox as soon as they can see their way to it. I think that both are shamelessly over-prescribed in cases where other options are still available. All of these should be exhausted before resorting to Subs or 'Done. The people who benefit the most & seem to have the easiest time are those who get off in a year or less. I also believe that both drugs should be administered @ their lowest possible 'blocking' dose!
T, the difference b/w our experiences as I see it, is that M'done was your actual DOC. For me it was Heroin. So M'done was to my Heroin what Subs were to your M'done: a life-saver. I never had had any real desire to abuse it & didn't get high off it. It didn't work that way for me after H. (I had a really high tolerance for opiates -- maybe that's part of it too). Anyway, like you said, any plan that works is the right plan!! :)
I'm a little over a month away from my two years & I'm right with you. It took me wellllll over a year to start feeling better & I'm still working on it. Recently, I've been experiencing a lot of mental/emotional healing which I think is the key to the whole thing. The body & sleep will follow. It's amazing what this stuff does to us. I know it's just a 'symptom' & not the original cause but man! What a syptom! (smiling)
So very glad we're here & not still there is all I can say :)
Yaay Carrie Anne on Day 22!! :)
You're rockin' this! What a good post. It's opened up an interesting topic.
@ Tony: I'm on my way to work now but what you wrote got me thinking (as always) & I'd like to respond to it tomorrow when I'm off. The whole subject is a minefield of pros & cons. Thanks you guys for opening it up.
Hope everyone is doing well. Have a beautiful day!
You're rockin' this! What a good post. It's opened up an interesting topic.
@ Tony: I'm on my way to work now but what you wrote got me thinking (as always) & I'd like to respond to it tomorrow when I'm off. The whole subject is a minefield of pros & cons. Thanks you guys for opening it up.
Hope everyone is doing well. Have a beautiful day!
By the way, I have never met anyone who died from subs, yet methadone has caused more deaths to my friends than all other drugs put together. More in my town have died from methadone than any other drug. I don't think I will ever change my mind about preferring sub over methadone, but both of them are worse than anything like hydros, Percs, even Oxy or H, depending on the severity of dosage and behavior that has formed. It took me a year to feel okay after methadone, 2 years to actually feel like it was over. If you are trying to decide between sub and methadone and you have tried every other way, talk to people with real experience with these drugs. Then find a doctor who knows what those with experience have shared.
There is only one sub doc in our county, no therapy, no NA, nothing. He is much like what Motye describes. That has been my experience. I drove over an hour to the next county for my sub doc and he was arrested for some corruption in his clinic, soon after I finished my subs. He handed out pain management meds, then he would get them on methadone or subs. Bupe is the fastest growing narcotic in the world right now. Unfortunately, all the doctors within 4 hrs of here are the same way. I know there are good sub doctors, but have only heard of them, never met one. It's worth the search and patience to do it right, that I know for sure.
There is only one sub doc in our county, no therapy, no NA, nothing. He is much like what Motye describes. That has been my experience. I drove over an hour to the next county for my sub doc and he was arrested for some corruption in his clinic, soon after I finished my subs. He handed out pain management meds, then he would get them on methadone or subs. Bupe is the fastest growing narcotic in the world right now. Unfortunately, all the doctors within 4 hrs of here are the same way. I know there are good sub doctors, but have only heard of them, never met one. It's worth the search and patience to do it right, that I know for sure.
I totally get your point. I was super anti-methadone, for a long time after detox. It is rare, but now I can see why that would be an okay path for some, very few, but it can be a helpful transition med. Subs are similar, but you can't OD and die, abuse potential is regulated by dose ceiling height, and they don't get you as high as methadone. I don't think the withdrawal is as severe either, though just as long, but that is obviously an opinion.
I like what you said about asking the doctor about sub detox, what the plan is. My doctor wanted me on subs 3-6 months, but I had been warned and was so scared of them, I only used them a few weeks. I actually took less for less time than the doc prescribed, could have never done that on methadone and I tried to taper. At my dose and length of use, my doctor was right, I really should have stayed on subs longer, I don't believe the withdrawal of methadone would have been so severe. Yet one thing I kept telling myself early on, "There is no wrong way to get clean, as long as I get and stay clean." My plan was well thought out and written down, but it was a horrible plan. I would never suggest doing what I did, other than sticking to whatever plan one has. That part I did right, and that is what it took.
Anyway, it's good to see YOU coming out of the fog and brain warp. Recovery is actually pretty fun, after the first phases pass, even meeting the new people and new ideas in early recovery have their moments. Keep up the good work.
I like what you said about asking the doctor about sub detox, what the plan is. My doctor wanted me on subs 3-6 months, but I had been warned and was so scared of them, I only used them a few weeks. I actually took less for less time than the doc prescribed, could have never done that on methadone and I tried to taper. At my dose and length of use, my doctor was right, I really should have stayed on subs longer, I don't believe the withdrawal of methadone would have been so severe. Yet one thing I kept telling myself early on, "There is no wrong way to get clean, as long as I get and stay clean." My plan was well thought out and written down, but it was a horrible plan. I would never suggest doing what I did, other than sticking to whatever plan one has. That part I did right, and that is what it took.
Anyway, it's good to see YOU coming out of the fog and brain warp. Recovery is actually pretty fun, after the first phases pass, even meeting the new people and new ideas in early recovery have their moments. Keep up the good work.
COMMUNITY LEADER
Well, you know i had to come and put my 2 sense in regarding the topic of suboxone.
I went to the ONLY dr in my area that prescribed subs. She was an "addiction" dr. My drug of choice before this was opiates. I took maybe 10/12 hydros or percocet a day. The dr i saw started me on 24mg of subs but we NEVER discussed therapy, N/A, anything. After a couple of years and thousands of dollars later i realized that all i did was switch one drug for another. Someone once told me that the amount of subs i was taking was like swatting at a fly with a baseball bat! The w/d i had with subs was 10 x's worse than what i would have had with just getting off of the opiates. My opinion....you cant get off drugs with drugs! The other issue is the length of time it takes to get off of subs. I think its unrealistically slow! And if i could taper, then i should have just tapered off the opiates!
My dr told me i would have to be on subs for life....********! When its time, and your tired of being tired, you know it!
I went to the ONLY dr in my area that prescribed subs. She was an "addiction" dr. My drug of choice before this was opiates. I took maybe 10/12 hydros or percocet a day. The dr i saw started me on 24mg of subs but we NEVER discussed therapy, N/A, anything. After a couple of years and thousands of dollars later i realized that all i did was switch one drug for another. Someone once told me that the amount of subs i was taking was like swatting at a fly with a baseball bat! The w/d i had with subs was 10 x's worse than what i would have had with just getting off of the opiates. My opinion....you cant get off drugs with drugs! The other issue is the length of time it takes to get off of subs. I think its unrealistically slow! And if i could taper, then i should have just tapered off the opiates!
My dr told me i would have to be on subs for life....********! When its time, and your tired of being tired, you know it!
Wise words once again. My only point to this post was that just because I had a bad experience, it doesn't mean everyone will, and Im sure there are many success stories, but we all tend to focus on the negative, at times. Suboxone helped me immensely in the beginning, my frustration was there being no end game in sight by my Dr. and the lack of knowledge he seems to have about this incredibly strong medication. Fact of the matter is youre high, even if you don't want to believe it, and for me, that wasn't the "normal" I wanted anymore. XX C.
Fact, I would be dead today without Subutex. A couple years ago, when I used them, many tried to strike fear in me. Even folks I highly respect tried to talk me out of it. Well, 2 1/2 years of attempts, reaching 250 mgs of methadone, and having my. 3rd respiratory arrest, subs didn't sound too dangerous. I'm not sure those who tried to convince me to just taper the dones asked me the right questions before giving me advice. Though the bias against subs is legit and still around, people are accepting more that there is a time and place for everything.
That being said, buprenorphine is not a miracle drug. It has never had long term use clinical studies done, withdrawal is severe, and it does get you high. Maybe pot doesn't get anyone high, compared to methamphetamine or heroine, but it still gets you high, just like subs. I consider subs a last resort, after trying other ways and failing, or high dose addiction to powerful opiates. The withdrawal is worse than most other opiates and lasts way longer, but to save a life, the long severe withdrawal is worth every hit of pain.
Be smart, stay accountable to others, and remember drugs are a symptom, not the problem. I think methadone shoukd be discontinued as a recovery drug , due to sub's invention. If one is allergic to bupe or has a bad reaction, methadone maintenance would be my very last choice of any. Be careful, be your own advocate and make an informed decision about your recovery, your life depends on it.
That being said, buprenorphine is not a miracle drug. It has never had long term use clinical studies done, withdrawal is severe, and it does get you high. Maybe pot doesn't get anyone high, compared to methamphetamine or heroine, but it still gets you high, just like subs. I consider subs a last resort, after trying other ways and failing, or high dose addiction to powerful opiates. The withdrawal is worse than most other opiates and lasts way longer, but to save a life, the long severe withdrawal is worth every hit of pain.
Be smart, stay accountable to others, and remember drugs are a symptom, not the problem. I think methadone shoukd be discontinued as a recovery drug , due to sub's invention. If one is allergic to bupe or has a bad reaction, methadone maintenance would be my very last choice of any. Be careful, be your own advocate and make an informed decision about your recovery, your life depends on it.
Hey Ash, Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! You know what you've done for me and what you continue to do. You are a inspiration to me and I am sure many others, keep it up! Maybe one day our grand master plan will come to fruition, anything is possible! XOXO C.
Hellllllo Gorgeous!!!! You have helped me in a magnitude you will never understand!! Keep up the great work and as Ghandi says " Be the Change you wish to see in this world "... Your rocking it and I am loving your positive attitude and willingness to help others in need..
Xoxo
Ash
Xoxo
Ash
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