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Endorphins - When do I get them back!

Hi All! (I cant believe I got through, I must collect myself a moment).

Does anyone know how long it takes to have ones endorphins return to pre-opoid days?  I am just wondering about the day that I attempt to only use things like Yoga, meditation, and maybe the antidepressants to tackle my fibromyalgia and arthritis.  I have wanted to know this for a long time but could not get through to make a new post.  This is one exciting day!  I think I will do a quick pick on Lotto!  I would appreciate any information from you good people.  I mean do the drugs need to be out of your system for a period of time?  Does it depend on what you were on and how long you were on it?  
Thanks Again Everybody,
Marcie!
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yes it will go back to normal but it takes your body time. ..This is a old thread and it might help to post a new question so that it will be seen by more of us..welcome to med-help ..
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QUESTION - since narcotic abuse makes me stop producing my own endorphins, how long will it take, after quitting narcotics, for my body to start producing natural endorphins again, and will it ever go back to normal again?
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hey all,
after reading this board's messages and seeing the replies, i hope i can make it ....
i am pretty much like everyone else. i have back pain and still have it. i take waaaaaay too many lort's a day. i am down to 4. tomorrow is the last day and i will be speaking to my neuro tonight about this whole screwed up situation. i am just asking for a bit of support and some empathetic ears. i am thainking you in advance!

and to those who are wondering if they have a problem ... you probably do. i myself am 29 and pretty fit. though i smoke, i am extrememly active. i practice brazilian jiu jitsu, powerlift, run, fish (through the middle of winter!) and am usually pretty busy. DO NOT THINK THAT JUST B/C YOU DO A FEW LAPS, RUN A FEW MILES OR DO A FEW BENCH PRESSES THAT YOU CAN NOT GET ADDICTED! i am walking talking proof! i have the six-pack stomach and V-tapered upper body to prove it. TRY your best to make some steps. it seems everyone here is so unerstanding. USE THEM!

also, if i can be of support or help to ANYONE else, please reply and i will e-mail you.

to everyone else, best wishes and continued success!

will
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Hello Alice, How are you doing ? How was work? I know you said in your post earlier that today was your back to work day. Ive been praying for you asking God to help you thru this time. Today is day 153 clean for me. I got me a sponsor in NA last Tues night. My cravings somtimes are a real bad at times but somehow I manage thru.Im so grateful for this forum and these other addics writing about there lifes. It lets us know were not alone. I feel that my first couple of months clean for me I wasnt craving so bad because the anxeity and feeling of numbness was enough to keep me off these opiates. But as Im starting to feel again a little my cravings are stronger and I feel like just getting high. Cause somtimes my depression gets really bad and I know that the vico's were a great anti depresant for me.
I have other Issues and stressers in my life that make the drug so appealing. Well better go for now. I just had you on my mind.
till next time...................Mark
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Alice, for me, I finally got so disgusted with the withdrawals that I had to make a choice.  My husband and I discussed the possibility of what I like to call "good hydro management."  By using this, you may not always get the euphoria, but you will never have to experience the terrible withdrawals again.  However it does take will power, and while having someone hold them is good, unless you yourself have made the decision you no longer want to go through withdrawal, you will only obsess more over the fact that you don't have any.  When I am tempted to take a whole hydro, when I really am not feeling withdrawal, I take a half.  I got used to taking halves and conditioned my mind to believe if I took a whole one it would be too strong.  Again, you have to hit bottom and decide you would rather have no withdrawals than the immediate gratification.  It can be done.  You don't have to face the mountain of quitting.  by reducing and stablizing your meds, you can live a pain free life, and not fret so much over the withdrawal.  Your body will adjust.  It will not happen overnight, but if you taper down to a half every two hours or so, you will find relief.  It all boils down to which is more important:  The euphoria which will not last if you do a large amount on a regular basis, or the security of knowing you will not have to go through withdrawal.  Merry Christmas, I will be off the board for a few days for a trip.  Be safe and love to everyone.  Vicky
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You may be aware that I let my wife control my meds and this works just fine for me.  At first I hated the whole idea but after a month of smooth sailing, I began to accept the fact that I could not be trusted alone with narcotic meds.  BTW my AA sponsor was the one who suggested we do it this way.  I hope it works out for you as well!

Though things are anything from perfect in my life today, I feel I've made a lot of progress.  Spirituality is probably the greatest thing I have going for me.  Not that I've become religious and church going or bible quoting or anything like that.  I just feel more human and have some real emotions like never before.  I actually care about people and want to do well by them.  My family is closer now than ever before and I thank my God every chance I get.  Without this sense of spirituality in me and left to my own devices, everything would be totally screwed up.  Today I have a sense of peace, happiness and well being.  You are going to be just fine, Alice.  Trust me.
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Avatar universal
Hi Vicki,

First, thank you for sharing some of your struggles with me. Likewise, for your support. I have asked myself at least a thousand times how/why this happened to me. I have felt "morally weak," overwrought with guilt, shame and embarrassment for getting sooo out of control!
In some ways I must be dealing with it though. Yesterday, a very close and well intentioned friend told me to stop being weak--as though it was as simple as deciding to give up milk or soda's. Maybe it is that simple, but it doesn't feel that way. I have given up many "addictive" things with minimal difficulty. In a round-about way, I'm trying to answer your question (do I find myself envious of normal non-addicted people?) Absolutely!
I am so glad to have found this message board. One thing I do know, no one can understand addiction who hasn't been there.
And, in honesty, I didn't understand before it happened to me!
Over the years a few of my friends have joined AA and I have gone to meetings a few times for support. When I heard their stories of near demise/ruined years of their lives, I was guilty of doing the same thing my friend did to me. I'd gone from drinking quite heavily in college to drinking responsibly, why couldn't they?

Now I know why of course.

As far as telling my doc, thereby cutting off my source, I'm not ready to go that far. After all, considering that alcoholics have easy access to liquor, they must find the strength not to stop in a bar, or down the beer/wine isle in the grocery store for that matter.

Right now, my goal is to use my meds responsibly. Since I've proven I cannot trust myself right now, I am going to give my meds to a trusted friend to disperse to me on a daily basis. My plan is to taper from there. 2 mo taking them as prescribed, and then the third month taking 2xd instead of 3xd. And of course, to continue refraining from visiting the ER, seeking out other docs or any other available means. Right now, I pray for the strength to tell my doc that I don't need the soma's anymore (since I trade them for percodans anyway). That will at least eliminate my one other source.

I hope I can find whatever it takes to succeed. I have done as much research as possible on tapering. How were you able to stop abusing your meds so much/take them more responsibly? Also, do you know if tapering also lessons the compulsion to go on a binge? You mentioned that your body does adjust. How about your mind? I do have chronic pain in my back from a variety of serious injuries. I want to be in a place where I only take pain meds for physical pain...not for instant europhia or to numb my emotional pain!

I did not mean for this to be so long...another night of near insomnia (slept from 7:00PM-11:PM) has me rambling! This is day #4...thank God I am off of work until next Wed. Will I feel any relief by then?

Well Vicki, keep up the good work...4 days early is better than 15 days! You are at least making progress. And I'm coming to strongly believe strength is gained by progress.

Hope you have a merry christmas!

God Bless all of us who are suffering

Alice
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GK,
I am glad to inspire you (and anyone else) to rid yourself of this beast that only hungers for more and more. I wish I had heeded the warning long before I spiraled so fast/far down to this miserable state. And yes, I do take antideppressants--zoloft 150mg plus trazadone 100mg at night.
The only reason I'm not "history" yet, is by the grace of God. Equally, I believe that my prayers (some of them said in the absence of faith) are being answered or else I would still be in denial. When I feel no faith, I am honest with HIM about that too.
And though it may sound sick/or pathetic, I have actually made a few steps of progress--I have stopped humiliating myself. I have refrained (for the last 7 mo) from seeking out other doctors, or visiting the ER when I run out. And regardless of desperation, I have felt, I have never forged scripts or attempted to purchase them on the streets--although I admit I have been tempted. Now I just suffer through it and pray for strength to persevere/oercome this insideous monster.

God Bless,

Alice
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Hi Mark,

Thank you for your prayers, I need all I can get right now! Five months is a great accomplishment. But, please keep up the faith and stay strong. Whatever you do, don't repeat my mistakes. My periods of abstinence have lasted up to 8 months. I so deeply regret buying into the lie that I could "handle it" after so long without. Each time, my addiction escalated into the nightmare it now is. I don't want to scare you--You are doing the right thing.
From where I'm at (4 days), five months clean seems like an eternity. But, on a core level, I know that God does not give us more than we can handle. AND I strongly believe that we were all put here to face certain challenges and learn certain lessons. That being said...When you have moments you are tempted, think about the absolute worse aspects that drove you to leave it behind. In time, day by day you will surely find that those cravings will lose their power. After all, they are just moments!

I read these words of inspiration somewhere...
Although with broken wings you cannot fly,
my how high you can climb.

Merry Christmas...and again thank you for your support.

God Bless!

Alice
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Thank you all for your prayers and support!

Hi JB,
I am certain I would not still be alive had I reguarly been using opiates for the last ten years. Up until I began seeing my pain specialist, there were long periods I didn't take any pain medication...I suppose I thought I was "smarter" than to allow myself to become addicted. Up until 1 1/2 years ago, it was not at all difficult to stop. Of course, I never took them longer than 3 to 4 weeks at a time either. Nevertheless, that all changed when I started seeing the pain doc. Maybe it would not have progressed this far had I realized their addiction potential! Not that these details matter because I'm defintely an addict now!
I DO want my life back. I'm 38 y/o and DO NOT want to die. I just want this madness to end. At least I am on my 4th day UNopiated (although in pain).
I know the best thing would be for me to deal with the pain for my physical pain is nothing compared to my emotional pain and spiritual decay. A non-using friend is going with me to my next app't 1/3 and I am giving her my meds to dole out to me each day. I have proven I cannot trust myself! Do you think this is progress?
By the way, I'm sorry about your wife. I will pray for her too!

Merry Christmas and God Bless!

Alice
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Hi alice, like everyone on this board, i know exactly what you feel.  Have you ever  driven down the street, watching every car, just absolutely envious because unlike yourself, they are not a victim of this paralyzing addiction.  As I have said several times on this board, i would take all of the worst times in my life a millionfold, plus all the heartache of my neighbors to have never gotten physically addicted to this drug.  I am learning how to maintain, and my goal is to be at place like J.B., where I do not run out because I do not abuse.  I will take as directed.  My addiction has kept my husband and I trapped in this pathetic, siberia-like midwestern state.  I have had opportunities to work in some wonderful places, but am too terrified of leaving my doctor.  My greatest day will be when he either retires or somehow I am cut off.  I can relate to you about the feeling of the first time you had morphine.  My parents were both drug addicts, in fact my mother shot speed when she was pregnant with me.  They were not bad people, just addicts living in the Bronx in Ny.  Then my father found religion, my mother gave up Judaism and they became missionaries.  Anyway, when I was about 10 years old, I discovered a bottle of pills that were marked "for pain" in my mother's dresser.  Like a robot, I immediately knew I wanted these.  I had no idea what they were, but I  knew.  For two hours, I emptied the contents of these capsules into those old "contact cold" capsules, and transfered the cold medicine into the pain capsules.  And I took them.  I don't remember if I got a buzz, but I remember knowing instinctively what my body wanted.  When I was born, I went into a seizure from being addicted in the womb. I was also breech, and apparantly the forceps the doctor used to extract me twisted my neck muscles, which led to the condition that now has enabled me to obtain pain pills.  I don't mean to be so long, but I just wanted to share that moment, because our minds really f**k with us.  I wish I could tell you just tell your doctor you are an addict and everything will be fine, but until you make the decision that you are tired of being sick and tired are willing to brave the  withdrawal no matter what it takes, and not to scare you but it is not over in three days like some doctors will tell you.  However, the sooner you stop, the easier it will be.  I have been on them for ten years and I am down to four hydros a day and your body will get used to it.  But you have to get off of the oxy.  I hear its a real *****.
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Alice, wow you are really in deep sweety forgive my frankness but if you dont get your **** together soon your going to be history.You serve as a example for me too get my **** together, I dont know if it would work for you but some Antidepressants seem to curve the urge for pain meds, in any case wake up honey you are killing yourself fast.Good luck and Please stay alive G.K.
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Alice, I Feel for you right now.Prayer has helped me too, I wasnt using quite as long as you maybe 3-31/2 yrs. But I remember those withdrawls were the worst..I remember when my tolerance started to go up fast , I think its was about 8 months before I quit the vico's.I like you started with only 3-4 Vico Es. a day then up to 5-6 by the end of my active addiction was 8-10 aday
Ive only been clean for about 5 mos. now. But the "Protracted abstinence syndrome" has really been tough, they say it will get better....Ill be praying for you....Mark
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I had to read through your post twice because it had such an effect on me.  It brought back some memories much like the smell of fresh baked bread does. But along with the memories came the physical urges like those brought on by the sound of running water to someone who has to pee real bad.  That said, I want to tell you that you are not alone as long as we are around!

Ten years is a long time to be addicted to opiates and still hang on to life the way you have.  Most street addicts don't live that long.  But you are not a street addict.  You do have something going for you, some inner strength to beat down this addiction.  I'm sure you have heard all about NA and AA by now so I won't go into that.  

For me, it has been a thirty year struggle to get where I am today.  I can't begin to tell anyone the things I've tried in the past to get rid of my addictions.  Today, it is a matter of controlling them on a daily basis. I've never rid myself of the addiction phenomenon, but I can control them one day at a time!
When I get the urge to binge,  I try to think my binge through from start to finish.  It always turns out the same way!  No drugs and withdrawals, panic , desperation, insanity and maybe someday death.  Take care,  J.B.
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Well, everyone I'd like to comment of the anti-depressents and addiction to pain pills. First, the addiction: I  honetly don't know how I got here. It started innocently. I had my first  major surgery 10 years ago and it seems like from the moment I woke and felt the morphine, I was in love. had other medical problems (severe endometreosis) and most of you know the story...the first seven years I was not "addicted," though when I had them (several months of abstinence in b/w) I would abuse them.

I had a hysterectomy and vowed off the hydro's (10/5) which lasted about 7 months. I had suffered with chronic back pain for years, and I began using that as an excuse. Eventually, my Doc referred me to a pain specialist. He prescribed me 120 10/5's + a refill every month. Oh and lets not forget to mention the 120 Soma's. I was like a kid in a candy store. By the end of my hydro addiction, I was taking 40 pills per day. By this past June (2000), I knew I was out of control.

somehow, I managed to keep my job. I took four weeks of sick leave and bean seeing a psychiatrist for my addiction. I don't remember the details of my humiliating visit to the ER--but I literally freaked out going through withdrawals.

Like a programmed robot I still went to my next app't with my pain specialist. He informed me that the hospital called him and he was going to have to terminate me a a patient. Somehow, I talked him out of it. but I also vowed it was the last time and I had a major binge.

I did not tell my psychiatrist however. Three weeks after I was seeing him, he prescribed me Oycontin 40mg 2xd. About two weeks into that, I researched my "safer" time released drug--and realized what I had: a 100% narcotic. Hmmm 40 mg Oxy= 8 percodans! The time release is easily removed with a damp paper towel, and you just chew them. And, with a little research via google I learned the Oxy often "wore off" after 8 hours. I'm sure you can guess what followed--I was allowed to take 40mg every 8 hours.

Well, now I'm out of therapy, and I convinced my pain specialist to give me the same amount of Oxy's. And now I'm runnin out in 12 days--forcin me to spend 16 days drug free. Right now I'm on day #3. My app't isn't until Jan 3, 2001. My tolorance is soooo high it is horrifically frightening!!!! To make matters worse, my best friend gets 240 percodans a month and I trade him my somas for 120 percodans. By then, my tolerance has usually decreased to the point of satisfation. Like the vicous cycle it is (I know every miserable aspect of it), I vow to myself that I will use the oxy's more responsibly. I will see 8 percodans instead of a small seemingly harmless little pill. I'm allowed to take the equivalent of 24 percodans a day. It's crazy to take the equivalent of 64 (this month), and a death wish to take 10 of them in a day= 80 if your not counting.

How did I get here? from 3-4 hydro 10/5 to 360mg of oycodone?

I pray constantly when I'm not using!!!

AHH I long for the days I rode my bike 30 miles a day...when I felt my endorphins and their natural high...not this pathetic existence that I would not wish upon my worst enemy...no, not even on anyone guilty of the most henious crime! It would be cruel/unusual punishment.

I didn't mean for this to be so long...I had my first night of insomnia last night. Forgive me for rambling!

One more thing, music is the only source of comfort I know...besides those fleeting moments I remember the days I walked the higher path and embraced the Lord, loved God with all of my heart  . And truly, I know this is wrong. I am guilty of placing the opiate demon above all else.

Any comments would be welcome. If any of you know of any support groups on the net, please pass them on. Also feel free to e-mail me ***@****

Alice  

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Avatar universal
your words resonate with sanity and intrigue me like a cool breeze calls to the skin at the end of a hot afternoon. I believe you have more to say about the spirituality of the opiate experience. We are not so much suffering a disease as we are feeding an ancient hunger deep down
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I must tell you that you put down in one post what I have been thinking for such a long time.  You are so correct.  I too am a Type A, obsessive compulsive, endorphin challanged person.  But I am so confused on what to do! Do I go off of the Zoloft (150 mg a day).  A psychiatrist put me on this amount. I heard that they always have you at a higher dosage than say a family doctor would put you on.  Whatever the hell that means.  But I still must say your post was awesome.  I am printing it and will keep it close at hand.  It describes me. It is me. I joke to my doctor that I am a Chronic Pain alright a Chronic Pain in the Ass!
Because I feel like no one understands what I am going through.  And what do I do because of the guilt in the doctors office? I send flowers bring donuts to the doctor to make up for feeling so bad about feeling bad.  I said in another post where my music that I listen to is so important to me.  As I bring up again Aerosmith you can hear their path that they have taken in their songs.  From their days of being so messed up to coming back in to reality.  Pink Floyd there again describes what I feel as I sit in carpool waiting to pick up my kids. I am so sorry that this is long.  I could go on forever! You opened the flood gates on this one.  I thank you so much for the time you took to write this.  It has made my day.  Like I say so much I thank god for you all!  You all are a fine bunch of people.  
Oh and by the way do I slowly (with a Drs help) taper off Zoloft to see who I am?  All I know is that since I have been put on A/D's I have had people tell me that I am not the same person I used to be.  It is like a Zombie state.  If it were not for my kids. They are crazy like their mom (before a/d's)! Thank God!

I will leave you fine people with this anecdote:
My six year old daughter's class was told to write a sentance about ANYTHING.  My daughter writes "The Month is November, I am still in Senior Kindegarten, The teacher cant teach and I am BORED"

Last Year:
What does you mommy like to do?
My daughters answer - Stay in bed all day
(This is when I was in bed alot with Chronic Back Pain)

Again whoever you are please keep posting!

Sincerely,
Marcie!
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Avatar universal
I think it is a highly telltale point that there are a tremendous amount of artists/creatives here on this board. I myself am a graphic artist working in the advertising industry. tom's a writer. J.B. etc. etc. Eric Clapton once said that artists work on a very intense plane of emotional necessity and that heroin (opiates) are probably the stongest way to kill whatever pain that emotional necessity causes. I wouldn't trade being creative for the world, but it is the creatives historically that have been deemed "mad". It takes almost a twisted sense of self and reality to come up with the things that "entertain" the analytical types out there (our nemesis:) Most doctors are analytical at heart and have a very hard time understanding what is going on in our mind. I can't even begin to explain to my doctor what I feel on an average day. It's one of those things that you have to BE to understand. I think creatives are not only prone to, but by definition are chemically "imbalanced". When I or anyone I know who is creative is placed on anti-depressants to make us "normal" - we invariably don't respond well. "Normal" levels of seretonin and endorphins just really has never been our "reality". To alter that now or ever is really to shake and tamper with the basic core of our personality. It's a society that doesn't "allow" people to be the way we are naturally that must shoulder some of the blame here. We are outnumbered by the mathmatician analysts types that dictate what "normal" "rational" behaviour is. The consequence? We feel like outcasts. We're told we're not "normal". We are told we need medication. We become afraid and ashamed of ourselves. I am an admitted type A, obsessive/compulsive, endorphin challenged individual and you know what - that's okay. That's me. In FACT those are the very traits that allow me to be so good at my job. It's what got me hired - that attention to detail to an obsessive point is the "norm" in my industry. But once I leave the building - I'm "different". I think that MANY of us who are now addicts/depressed etc. are victims of this social pressure more than anything else. It may sound to an analytical person that I'm rationalizing the cause and justifying the use of etc. But it's my reality. Sounds like it is some of yours too.(???) Not allowing someone to "be themselves" is a horrendous thing to do to someone.
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Your doctor sounds like the one I used to use.  Mine got run out of town eventually and practices in some western state now.  Luckily for me, I found a good doctor and seldom wait more than 30 minutes.  I'm usually in and out in about an hour's time.  
I get Xanax too but don't use them much so I have a supply on hand.  They make me tired so I usually use them near bedtime.

Yeah, the blizzards have been bad here.  I live way out in the county and get snowed in alot.  The county plows us out last.  We have gotten in the habit of stocking up on all the essentials, including meds because getting to town is impossible at times.

I'm glad that your doing better with your depression!  That's the one thing that really gets me, the depression.  And this is the worst time of the year to have it!

Merry Christmas,

J.B.
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Avatar universal
Wow, Steel is one of my favorite mediums in art and architecture.  I am so glad you are able to make a living from it and sorry the a/d's had screwed that up.  You are right abut the dextro.  I couldn't sleep b/c I had f*&king heart palpatations all night!!!!  The following is an example of what I will do to obtain my meds.  My doc's appt was Wednesday.  This has been the most successful time I have ever had as far as maintenance.  instead of two weeks waiting without, I only had FOUR DAYS.  What do I do, well I call the doc's office and beg them to let me come in today because of my cold.  This puts the staff out because they have to stay late.  I kind of go to a doctor feel good, and he quadruple books.  I'm talking an appt at 3PM and maybe going in to see him at 5:15, if your lucky.  anyway, I drive two hours to my doc.  I didn't know there was a BLIZZARD going on up there!!!!  I got out of his office at 7PM, of course i had to immediatley fill my scripts, and got home at 10:30PM!!!  And I can't bring myself to sew on a freaking button!!!  By the way, I have had valium replaced with xanax.  Iwas having anxiety attacks the valium couldn't touch, so we shall see. My depression is much better.  Thanks for listening to such a long story.  But it sort of makes me understand your wife.  Like me, she risks her life for her addiction...Have to crash, White knuckling the interstate has worn me out!!!!
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Marcie....Thanks for your reply,..You know Ive been wondering if these antidepressants really do mess with you. Thinking, consentration and creativity. Im a Musician/Songwriter and In the last 15yrs I have written probably 6 CDs of material. I wrote 12 songs last year and recorded them . Since Ive come off Vico's I hardly even pick up my guitar.Except to go play a job
I play about 10 nights a month. But I only do that cause Im contracted. and for the money. I dont daydream like I use to either.Ive been clean for 143 days though.Im Hoping and praying that the old Mark will and can return......Good Luck,,,,,Mark
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Hi Neena, Hope this note finds you feeling well. Sorry not getting back to reply.This is clean day 143 for me. You said you were in detox in october.Where you in depression before you used?
I may have had a little myself , but nothing like this has been.
Even though this has really been tough for me, I know I can not return to opiates.You didnt say , Did you detox at home or at a hospital? I went to a hospital , helped me with the symtoms of withdrawl. I couldnt do it at home. I still feel that disoriented
feeling . At first I didnt feel anything ....but thats getting better. And I had Very disturbing nightmares also. I guess its all part of your brain healing. But I do know you cant heal your brain and or mind as long as your using.....Right?
thanks..........................Mark
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About Cuckoo's Nest:  I felt like the drugs were labotimizing me.  All I wanted to do was sleep and hide out in my bedroom.  Nothing was spontanious at all!  Every time I wanted to do something simple, I would have to sit for an hour planning every little move in advance. That's just not my style!  And many of my friends made comments about my "change".

Anyway, Vicky, I work with wood and steel mostly.  I do a lot of antique reproductions and restorations.  I'm also a machinist.  I consider everything I do a God given talent(art).  And it has paid a lot of bills, too.  My biggest drawback, other than my ego, is seeking perfection in everything I do.  It slows me down too much but you can't rush true art either.

Dextromethorphan?  Well I tried that once, just once.  The giant sized bottle of Vicks Formula 44.  It scared the hell out of me!
Not a good drug in my opinion.  If you are used to opiates, it's a very poor substitute. I think the benzos are much better if you have accsess to them.
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Many pain specialists use Dextromethorphan as an adjunct to short-acting opiates.  The combination of the two allow the dose of the opiate to be reduced.  Dextromethorphan also decreases the liklihood of the individual becoming habituated to the opiate.
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