I've thought of a plan to detox off Mscontin, but am I nuts?

[ShoShoSaysNo22]

Hi everyone.......I've had a 5 year dependency on MScontin  200mg/day....I did try the suboxone last fall for 6 weeks and felt fine on it, and in fact got down to 6mg/day by the end of 6 weeks...however I went to Ontario for the winter and the way they do Suboxone there is you have to  go to a dirty clinic everyday to get your dose...forget that, as I was watching my wee grandson and wouldn't take him there, and it just logistically didn't make sense.  So I was put back on the MScontin by my daughters family doctor.....She put me back on the 200mg......Wow did I feel it....I won't lie and say I didin't like the high it gave me.  I hadn't felt that in a long time.  I was at the point wehre my daily dose was just keeping w/d at bay......

I had great hopes in the Suboxne but I have read so many posts where getting off it after long term use say a year, was horrid.......that freaks me out....So I have come up with a plan that I think may work, but I may just be nuts for even thinking this....Here goes:

I did switch back to the Suboxone 4 days ago.....Since I knew from the fall when I went back to 200mg after being on the sub for 6 weeks I didn't need that much, I'm sure 150mg would have been fine. I thought if I stayed on the suboxone for 4 weeks, then went back to a lower dose of MScontin 150 for 4 weeks then back to the suboxone for 4 weeks and back to the MScontin for at 100mg for 4 weeks, and so on until I was on the last Suboxone period and I would get off that within the 3 week period....I've just read that there is no w/d if you get off it within 3 weeks.  This could take 6 months, but I wouldn't have that painful longterm suboxone w/d.  

So does anyone think this would work?  or am I just being dilussional.....

Thanks to any who reply

ShoSho

[ShoShoSaysNo22]

I felt so sad reading your post....I've never done H or street drugs, except as a teenager for a few years, and I didn't get addicted really addicted to pain killers until I was 50..and now I'm 55 and I can't believe I'm still in it......Today is day 5 on the suboxone 12 mg and I'm doing okay...a little bit of pain in my legs, but I a robaxacet helped that....Charlie if you were doing okay on the suboxone why not just make peace with it and stay on it....it sure beats going back and forth and then feelign so guilty for slipping up......We have a real disease, and it needs to be treated as one....I know I am at the point that I will do anything to beat t his, but if I find out in the end, I can't live in peace, or feel normal again without something attaching to my opiate receptors, then I will make peace that I need a little suboxone.....that is sure better for me than the morphine....I can control my use of the MScontin, but I sure know it sets a wall between me and the world, a nice safe place where I don't have to feel too much....I want to feel life again....I loved life straight, but I know I may never be able to get there again....if I can't then long term suboxone will be the answer.....

However I saw my doctor today and I told him of my cockeymaney plan.  4 weeks sub 4 weeks lower dose of morphine.....I thought he would just shut me down but he didn't ....he listened, and  he said it was up to me.....He considers me more of a pain patient than an addict....I'm chemically dependent that is for sure....addict...well I did experience uncontrollable addiction for 5 weeks, when I learned to crush dilaudid and snort it....way back 5 years ago when I first had my injury....but I went inot a hospital right away to detox....but then that winter I was in so much pain, the fool doc's put me on mehtadone and then the nightmare began for me...it was way too strong for me, and because I have a very fast metabolism, I needed 70mg/day to keep it in my system...8 months of htat and I was suicidal...they put me on the MScontin to replace the methadone, ...300mg....then I slowly weaned to 200mg......but I will be truthful, that once in a while I will get crazy addict thinking and crush it, and IM it.....not too  often but that scares the ****** out of me....my doctor does not know that...I told my doctor today if I could even get down to 60mg/day of the mscontin instead of 200 I would be happy...but I need my pain controlled....I can't live with pain.....So I feel blessed that my doctor will work with me.....

Charlie, you have a great life by the sounds of it....a wife and daughter, and you are smart......stay safe.......I'm sure yu have researced all there is about opiate dependency and you know it is real....so why not stick with the suboxone if that keeps you sane and safe.....What I do is excericse, swim, to get my own endorphines kicking in....I always feel better after 30 mins of excercise, so that tells me I must be still able to produce my own....what about you.....please stop the talk of guns in the mouth...you slipped, we all do, but the balance of that can change, where we make more progress and more progress till we get to a place we can live peacefully with.....

I'll be praying for you....

Debra

[charliemank]

You are not alone! I have been addicted to pain killers then H then back to pain killers and then h again. Get the idea? I too reached my end recently. I was using 1 gram a day of h and it was starting to kill me. I have a great carreer and loving wife and child. I am so consumed with getting clean but didnt want to feel the pain of the wd's. I went on suboxen last year and i will say this. It works. But then everyone is diffrent. I was on two 8mg pills a day. Tehn on one and then half and so on. I was to the point that I was taking only a small sliver of a pill everyother day or so. Then I was out. I have never felt anaxity and depression like that before in my life. Needless to say that was 8 weeks ago and for 7 of those 8 weeks I have been on H. Last week I said enough! I am done! NEVER AGAIN! I called my connect in Washington DC and asked for 200 mg of some good meth and stopped. Last friday was my last dose of H. I finished the meth on monday. Today I wanted to put a gun in my mouth and blow my brains out! I have never felt depression like that in my life. I read yours and everyones posts and find great strength in them. Your not alone! Good people with great lives and families get hooked. I have a post doctorate in Civil Engineering and have a wonderful wife and daughter. I am addicted and cant help it. But I can choose to change. Suboxen will work if used right and detoxed right. Plan, Plan, Plan. Thats my advice. Find a person or group that will help you with your inevidiable depression. We all go through it. Today I used 4 5 mg vicodans and feel like **** for doing it. But I can say that the lie from the pit of helll is that I failed. We all have our points of discomfort. Mine is when I cant stop crying for no reason at all and want to kill myself. I planned poorly. Dont feel bad you can do it.
Charlie

[cattalina]

I totally and completely understand wanting all this drama to be over. I've been an addict since I was old enough to think on my own and so this has to be harder for you as addiction didn't strike you until later on in life. Even so, there is never an easy way out of these types of situations. I understand not wanting to go thru wds - no one ever wants to! I don't know if I believe that there's a time period where there are no wds... personally I don't think it's possible, but if people say it happens then it must happen somewhere! I understand you're trying to find what will work for you, and I encourage you to continue to look for what works for you. However, I personally couldn't sign off on the plan you laid out here. I'm not telling you NOT to do it, or that it won't work, I just couldn't in good conscience tell you to go for it. I've never heard of anyone doing it this way before so I have no idea what the results or side effects could be. And although suboxone can be very difficult to come off of, those of us that have had a difficult time were those that were misinformed in the beginning of treatment. The best advice I can give you is learn what you can about sub and how it works, read other people's experiences and take into account length of time and amount taken. Then decide what you're willing to chance and experience by choosing a plan. Like I said, I don't personally believe there's a way to get off of any opiate - especially sub - with no withdrawals at all. There's ways to do it to ease up on the withdrawals and length of time does play a factor, but in my opinion, bouncing from med to med for periods of time may not be the way to go. Long term sub is not your only other option - not by a long shot. You could taper the MScontin until you're med free, you could taper the ms to a low amount then take sub for 2-3 weeks, or you could stay on the sub and do a quick taper starting now. You do have options including the one you mentioned... long term sub treatment is NOT your only way out. Sometimes looking for 'the easy way' can put us into a worse position than had we examined all the options and picked the one that seemed most likely to succeed - does that make any sense?
I'm currently down to about 1/2mg per day. I knew nothing about sub when I started and only learned what I know 1 year into treatment so my situation does not need to be yours... Let me know what you're thinking ok?

[ShoShoSaysNo22]

Thank you so much for replying.....My only fear is that I end up the suboxone too long, and suffer the w/d's.....I've heard people say they are on crumbs and can't stop....others especially from the NAABT site think it's wonderful......

I thought by bouncing between the two that while I was on the MScontin for a 4 week period, the suboxone would be out of my system  and then when I went back on it, my last time I would only be w/d from 50mg of mscontin, and therefore 3 weeks may be enough time on the sub....I've heard/read that under 3 weeks and there is no w/d's from sub.    I'm trying to figure what will work for me.......

The sub didin't react to me like Ihear other folks talk about it....when I was in mild w/d and took the sub I was sick, not w/d sick but just didn't feel well at all for the first 2 days...yesterday and today I feel fine....so I know if I do this plan I will have some yucky days, but yucky days are better than full blown w/d's....

This is someohting my doc would not go along with....He is very new a prescribing sub and is the only doctor in the province of NS who does....he only has a handful of patients on it........so is not knowledgeable........I would have a stash of hte MScontin I would use in between.....I'm just thinking that if I'm off the sub for 4 week periods it's out of my system and not accumulating.....

I know this may sound crazy, this plan, but the only alternative I have is long term suboxone, and I am 55, and I just can't handle the w/d's......

I was completely pill free until I was 50, so this has been a wild, wild mid life crisis so to speak....the hardest thing I have ever dealt with in my life.....and I just want it over....I'm sure you can understand.

What dose are you on now Catt....

Deb

[cattalina]

It sounds like you've put some thought into this plan, and there's a chance it could work for you. Personally, I wouldn't do it or recommend it but that's just me! The problem with suboxone and wds is that people don't understand it's strength and half life and try to come off of it too quickly at the wrong dose. Say you take 1mg/day for 3 weeks then just stop taking it... you will most likely feel wds. Sub needs to be tapered to the smallest amount possible while staying mindful of the half life. Unfortunately, the odds of not feeling any type of discomfort while coming off of opiates is pretty slim. Some people get lucky and don't suffer wds of any kind but it's not the norm. Personally, I wouldn't bounce between sub and MScontin like that. I hate to even make another suggestion to you, but there are other options. Can you talk to your doctor about this? Perhaps they could help you come up with a plan?