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Hydrocodone Withdrawal
by dabby, Feb 14, 2002 12:00AM
I have been taking hydrocodone for about 2 1/2 years at an increasing rate, ending up with the 7.5 strength and about 18-20 per day. I do have severe arthitis pain and am a 51 year old woman. I have to cut down and recently cut down to 10 a day and have experienced physical and emotional withdrawal symptoms. I have some clonidine and don't know how much to take for withdrawal. What is the recommended dosage. My goal is to eventually cut down to 4 a day, but have been very uncomfortable at 10. I also take effexor and trazadone for depression, but I am so depressed right now. Hydrocodone, believe it or not has helped my depression and has given me something to look forward to. This site has helped, knowing other people go through the same thing. Hydrocodone has become my reason to live. I know this has to change.
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I read your post and it's nice to be able to identify with another person in the same situation. The clonidine was prescribed to me for anxiety, but I did not need them as I was taking the hydrocodone, so I have alot of them. I just don't know what the recommended dosage is. I'm having a hard time cutting down, and am constantly craving. I am trying to work on a daily basis to keep my mind elsewhere, but have a hard time concentrating. It has gotten a bit easier at times so I know it is possible. Keep posting it's good to vent and identify. Barbara
GWH
Good luck,
PhD
Best of luck
I want out of this mess. If Klonipin will work, great. Will it get rid of the chills??
Thanks. Just discovered this forum and it is good to know somebody is out there talking about it. I'm afraid.
have to be monitored because it can cause blood preasure and
other concerns. Nod
Polo
GWH
The withdrawal has several stages, the first being 4-5 days of severe flu-like symptoms. That is usually followed by a period of depression and low energy.
Different people experience different things for different periods of time. But the bottom line is if you want to quit, quit. If you have not lost your supply of meds, following a taper schedule will greatly reduce the impact of the withdrawal. A slow, methodical taper from the dosage levels you're at down to 0 will make things much, much easier for you.
Hope that helps. Feel free to ask any other questions you may have.
Originally used as a high blood-presure med, Dr. Mark Gold in New Jersey discovered in the early 1980s that it could relieve some, or even many (but not all) of the syumptoms of opiate withdrawal. It's especially useful, I've found, in getting rtid of the sweats and jitteriness during withdrawal. But it doesn't do a whole lot for the more extreme bone pain, vomiting, convulsive leg-kicking, etc., of serious withdrawal.
The only drug that really does enable you to withdraw from opiates totally pain free is Buprenex, which is expected to get FDA approval probably sometime this year. It's a"partial" opiate -- meaning, you can't get high from it, but it "fills" your opiate receptors so you don't feel any pain when withdrawing from heroin or hydrocodone. If you're on a long-acting opiate like Oxycontin, then you first must switch to short-acting hydrocodone befopre quitting and using Buprenex, because the Buprenex also contains "antagonist" properties that can exacerbate withdrawal in some situations.
In any event, mumbo-jumbo aside, Clonidine can help but Buprenex is a God-almighty miracle drug, I kid you not. Many addiction doctors now prescribe it (even though technically it's only FDA approved for the treatment of pain, not opiate withdrawal), and mine even phoned in the script to my local Walgreens.
Biut if you can't get Buprenex, try using 1-2 Clonidines every six hours but monitor your blood pressure and be careful about standing up too quickly.
As for Klonopin, that's another matter entirely. A benzo like Valium (only much stronger), it's supposewd to relieve withdrawal symptoms basically by knocking thre **** out of you and drugging you so much you don't feel anything at all. But be very very careful -- Klonopin is EXTREMELY addictive. And unlike opiate withdrawal, Klonopin withdrawal CAN kill you!
"Let those without sin cast the first stone.." -Jesus Christ
Our Lord and savior is THE ONLY JUDGE.
Honour our Lord through your actions. How you live your life.
Peace.
Yes, I would like to know what the shot is if you could find out for me. And, no, I do not get sick from taking too much, but since I have cut back, I am finding that I feel better. I also have found out that since I cut back, the pills work better. I know that doesn't make much sense, but I am still scared that I will not be able to get enough.. Today I feel pretty good, two weeks ago I didn't think that would have been possible. I guess, a day at a time will do it for me. Thanks for your concern.
You mentioned a period of deporesion and low energy following the initial 4-5 days of detox.
Do you know, on average, how long this lethargic state lasts?
Weak12
PS: Thanks!
Lucky you!!! I would be afraid of Oxy-contin and think I would become instantly addicted. Better for me if I never try them, because eventually you've got to come down. I would say you are lucky that you can taper off, but I could never resist taking them if I knew I could get them. I am very weak and have a very addictive nature.
Barbara
I usually get the flu like symptoms for 3-4 days. sleeplessness and major panic attacks, sweaty palms, depression. You are not alone. everyone here who knows it has felt the same living hell. to me the worst part is staying off them for maybe 5 days at the most (which feels like an eternity) and then right when i'm at the point when I start to feel normal again I go back to them!! Polo unfortunately no one can go through it but you, no one can stop it but you. Hang in there, the feelings won't last forever, read what the other insightful friends on this forum say. they too have been there. you are not alone. good luck my friend.
the ash
the ash
I also have a prescription for Prozac that I am considering taking, and I wonder if anyone here has had any experience with that drug in light of getting of vicodin. Does it make tapering down/withdrawal any easier?
Before I start taking it, though, I want to read about "The Recipe" again, because I know it mentioned that you cannot do it while taking SSRI's like Prozac.
I have a couple of patches of Clonodine and buprenex; temegesic (sorry for sp) is on the way, 30 - .2mgs. I have also read the "recipe" and am planning to take the L-tyrosine, HTP and other supplements. I will probably cut the L-Try in half; the amount suggested is excessive in my opinion. I have the boring Robaxin for leg cramps and I have Soma. Will probably use the Soma instead of the Robaxin, but that damn Soma is addictive too. I am on 10 mgs daily of Valium and 2 mgs daily of Xanax and about 150 mgs of Hydro. It is the hydro I want to completely stop. I wil deal with the rest later.
Here is my question (realizing you nor anyone one else but the good Doc - where has he been lately anyway? is technicaly qualified to answer) do any of the substances have bad side effects when combined? I am not on antidepressants.
Would appreciate any feedback on this. I will report my experiences when I begin.
Peace/ JF /
So long as you are NOT taking an SSRI anti-depressant (I assume you know what that means) there shuld be no problem combining all the drugs you have.
Clonidine and Burenex are fine, of course, taken together.
As for combining L-Tyrosine and B6 with the 5-HTP, you'll want to take the Tyrosine/B6 together in the morning on an empty stomach, and then take the 5-HTP at least 2 hours later and spaced out 3 times a day. The zinc and magnesium comb can be taken anytime. But remember, No SSRIs, okay?
By the way JF, I really need some Buprenex (or Temgesic) right away. Can you help direct me to where to get it? Price is no barrier -- I'll pay anything, more or less.
If you can help, please email me at: ***@****
Hi there. its the ash man here. I hope you are doind well. I just had a quick question about the detox recipe. I have L-yrosine and the b-6 but what is the htp-5? Anyway , my best is with you and give me a hollar whenever you feel like it. take care.
the ash
Hey thanks, Ash.
5-HTP is an amino acid, a direct prscursor of the neurotransmitter serotonin. Apparently, serotonin is seriously depleted during opiate addiction, and low serotonin levels are linked to depresion and self-destructive behavior (such as the kind we addicts perhaps engage in -- duh!).
5-HTP actually increases the amount of serotonin in your body, or so its proponents say. It has reportedly done as well in clinical trials as SSRI drugs like Prozac, but unlike Prozac, it doesn't block the reuptak (rabsorption) of serotonin, it actuall directly increases the amount in the body.
The proper anti-depressant dose is supposed to be 100 mg. 3 times daily (or a total of 6 50mg. capsules). You might want to start out taking half that -- 1 50mg capsule three times a day and see how you feel on it, then increase the dose to 2 50 mg. capsules 3 times daily. You should take it at least 2 hours after taking your L-Tyrosine and B-6 in the morning -- I think you're supposed to take 4000 mg., or 8 of the 50 mg. caps of L-Tyrosine and your 2 b-6s all at once, on an empty stomach -- and take it with meals 3 times daily if you can.
One important caveat about 5-HTP.
1) You should not take it if you are also taking an SSRI anti-depressant such as Prozac.
Hope this helps.
That is more than helpful. Thanks alot. Have you been taking the combinations? how does it work for u? Talk to ya later and thanx again.
The ash
I am five days in to taking 20 mg of prozac daily. I take about 150 mg of hydro daily along with .75 to 2 mg of xanax and 6 to 8 soma. I started talking the prozac for depression (obviously) and to gear up for weaning off the hydro and soma. The hydro is obviously the hardest to get off of. I do not abuse the xanax, thank god, and find that taking it really helps me when I feel panic setting in. It also allows me to go longer between doses of hydro.
I was going to use the recipe to help get off the hydro, but see that it is not recommended when taking an ssri like prozac. Since I am only five days into the prozac regimen, I imagine that quitting would not make much of a difference at this point.
Does anyone have any experience taking prozac and getting off hydro, or would you recommend get of prozac altogether before my system gets used to it and sticking to the treatment?
Any info or thoughts on this predicament would be most appreciated.
Thanks
I think that taking the prozac while you are detoxing, instead of the l-tyrosine and 5 htp is a viable option, and may actually be better. None of this has been scientifically studied, so we're all trying to help each other out with trial and error here.
I know people who take prozac and a low dose of l-tyrosine and have had no problems at all. the L-tyrosine works to boost dopamine, the prozac will boost seratonin, so together they should be fine as long as you don't take the huge dose of l-tyrosine that the recipe recommends, and definately stay away from the 5 htp if you are on prozac. I think you could stick to 1000mg of the l-tyrosine along with the prozac and be fine. It is the 4,000 mg dose that could get you into trouble. Again, I am not a doctor, so please do your own research. I would hate to be wrong and have you suffer due to that.
The multimineral tablet that contains the zinc, magnesium, manganese and calcium is also a very helpful part of the recipe. Just as important as the amino acids. Basically everyone has a different situation, so people may need to adjust the recipe as they see fit. I just think that since you are tolerating the prozac well, it would be fine to stay on it, and that it would be very helpful in warding of the intense depression that detox tends to bring.
good luck!
WW
The prozac has not started to work yet, but I'm hoping to feel some results soon. In the meantime, I am waiting for a lull in my relentless work schedule so I can set aside some time to go through the hell of withdrawal. Nothing like spending your hard-earned vacation time in the fetal position on a cold bathroom floor.
Anyway, thanks for the advice. I will play it cautiously with the augmented recipe and the prozac and report back the results for others who finds themselves in a similar position.
Thank god for this board and for all of you. It's nice not to feel alone.
only for me, it was writhing around my carpet, crying and screaming, with my poor cats looking at me very curiously.
I didn't know what was to come, which made it scarier. Maybe knowing what to expect will help a little bit for you, at least I hope it does.
How low are you going to try to taper down to before going cold turkey? Also, you said something above that caught my eye. You said that you had two seizures from hydro withdrawal? I had always heard that hydro withdraw would not cause seizures and was not dangerous...have I heard wrong? I went cold turkey off an about 200mg a day habit last august and maybe should consider myself luck that I did not have a seizure.
take care and keep us posted,
WW
I wish I could remember where I read that you could get seizures from hydro withdrawal. I was taking about the same amount that you were when you quit, but we're all different. I think I read it here somewhere or in the archives, and believe it was Dr. Steve's advice, but I could be wrong. I just remember reading that you could get seizures from cold turkey, and that they could kill you. The last part I didn't know, so I am even more scared now that the next seizure will be my last.
Basically, I am one lucky guy.
As for the tapering, I am going to try to get down to 30 or 40 mg a day before I quit, but that will all depend on what I can get my hands on. I'm tired of scamming doctors and the whole ordeal of worrying about running out, counting my pills, etc, so it may just happen on its own. I just don't want to be at 150 mg a day as I am right now when it does happen. I could really use some more hydro to help me taper down to a reasonable level, and have looked into online pharmaces, but I'm not sure if I can trust them. Plus they are VERY expensive for even a handful of pills. So.........
Thanks again for your encouragment and help.
Good luck to all and keep the faith.
Peace.
Anyone else ever experience this?
ahh, the wonderful jolts. Do you get the accompanying chills with it too? I get the combo. Almost like body spasms ya? a withdrawal symptom I can do without! I get more of the restless body then just my leg alone. anyway you are not alone with them. Anyhow take it easy and hollar if ya want to talk. I'll be here.
the ash
It is almost unheard of for withdrawal from opiates alone to produce a seizure -- unless that person has ape-existing seizure disorder or a low seizure threshold for some reason.
The benzos? Sure. But not opiates such as hydro.
And schlub, your posts here and on the other threads have been really helpful, fair-minded, enjoyable, and informative. Thanks! Unfortunately, the docs at emergency and elsewhere did tell me that that seizures are, in fact, a risk with opiate withdrawal, but maybe only under special circumstances, i.e., mine, but I never had a seizure in my life until then and never once since. It's something I need to look into more, but your post gave me some hope, so thanks. This time around, no cold turkey for me, and one drug at a time, with hydros first on the list. I think I learned my lesson the last time, and would like to touch down a little bit more gently than my previous experience of kicking.
Best wishes to all. Keep the faith.
welcome to the forum! there is always room for one more addict! a
suggestion: post closer to the top. it is real easy for an addict
to be overlooked in the "basement."
i usually don't advise a fellow addict about weather or not they
should come clean with their doc. there are just too many variables
involved. but in your case, i think you beter. diabetes out of con-
trol is just too much of a complication. if pain and withdrawal
raise your blood suger levels...well that is a real serious problem
that i'ld rather hear about you under a doctors care than doing
your self.
what ever you decide to do, please post back to us. there is a
whole forum of addicts here that want nothing more than to help you
with your addiction problems
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
You will go through the withdrawals that you have read about on these posts and they will last for about a week. Maybe. It depends on how your body handles it, but it seems as a general rule, they will last for about a week. You may also experience lethargy and depression. That may last for 1 week, 1 month, I don't know. I am not a doctor. Again, it depends on what your body does with it or what you do with your body. Personally, I would suggest a good diet, exercise, muti's, and determination. There are posts here about a recipe that you can check out. I don't know how it works because I went cold turkey and followed it up with rehab for 6 weeks with after care meetings, still, and AA/NA meetings, also still. Most importantly I have my relationship with God that is responsible for bringing me up out of the pit and to these forums. "There is safety in the Multitude of Counselors." Hang in there man, and that may mean literally for a short while but you will survive. I pray for strength and spiritual/physical and emotional healing for you in this time. KEEP COMING BACK to this forum. We Are Here For You!
In His Love, JR.~
If you want a script., tell your doc. you're hooked and you need their help to quit safely. Keep us posted! Ketta
You are in a tough spot. You have the legit pain, the diabetes, the operations. No one wants to be an addict--at least no one here--but I can't help but wonder in your case if you are using the drugs for what they are for, i.e., relieving severe pain. Sometimes it's easy to forget that these drugs do have a purpose, and you seem to need them. Am I wrong? Are you abusing them, or simply worried that you will be hooked. I know people with severe pain who have been told they will be on pain meds for the rest of their lives. And god bless 'em, they take 'em for pain and not the high. They don't doctor hop, they use as prescribed. But I also know some people whose docs are not sympathetic to their very real pain, and who are very tight with the painkillers and they are not enough. I see them wince in pain and struggle to get up and walk. And walk they do, to another doctor to dupe them into getting more painkillers, not to get high, but to get some relief. It's a shame the world is like that, that there are those who truly need the stuff and can't get it, and then pathetic addicts like myself who really don't need it, but can get it.
I am sorry you are in a world of pain, especially with a baby in your life. I know the child brings you joy but it also must be hard in the condition you are in. Others here have offered advice that is wiser than my own. I can only hope you can be upfront with your doctor and get the relief you need. The first thing to handle is your pain, while being aware of the addictive nature of these drugs. What a double-edged sword--to live with pain or risk addiction. You make me realize how lucky I am, and that there are those who are much worse of than I am. I am sorry and I wish you all the best.
Just listen to that wisdom. Man, that was wisdom learned by PAIN. Real physical, emotional and spiritual pain. We admitted we were powerless over our addiction. Just a small recap to echo Ketta, Doctor hopping is illegal. I lost 18 years of a very good Law Enforcement career over 12 years of addiction to vicodin and doctor hopping. God has since restored me though and I am 290 days clean. This after MUCH pain. Oh yea, my started with multiple knee and various other surgeries, 27 to be exact but it went beyond the physical to the mental need. Doctor hopping is a felony! To reiterate what Unwise said, it is a shame that people who really need the pain management can't get it but we, the addicts always know where/how to get it. Sickening isn't it. I say this in retrospect. There is no life in it. I too, would ask if you are legitimately taking the meds for real pain. If that is the case then deal with YOUR doctor, not multiples. From the sounds of your injuries sustained in your accident, I could understand all of that pain. BUT, only you know what is going on inside of your body and your head. Be real with yourself. I agree, you're only 9 months into it. Quit while your ahead if your motives are less than pure and self seeking. I was able to justify in my head that my pain was real only to get the buzz after awhile. Yes, I still have pain. I need surgery on my rotator cuff at this moment but, and I only speak for myself and my situation, I welcome the pain as a reality check. I cannot and will not go back. We are here for you my friend. Please continue to ask questions. There are lots of good people out here just waiting to impart some great info to you LEARNED FROM ADDICTION!
IN HIS LOVE, JR.~
Having known what it was like to not have those cravings for over three years, I know the joy you are feeling now some 290 days into it. There's nothing like it, is there? For me, being straight after being on drugs for so long was actually like a new high...one I hadn't experienced in 20 years. And best of all, it was free! Also what was wonderful for me was that I could live like a "normal" person and not worry about relapse if I had a few beers a couple of times a week. Never led to heavy drinking or the desire to get back on vicodin. Likewise, after being clean for a few months, I decided that I would try soma again for my muscle spasms which were intense and not relieved by the motrin. I asked the doctor for a small Rx to try it out and prefaced the request by saying I had abused the soma before and that we should both keep an eye on my intake. To my surprise and delight, I took them when my spasms were out of control and never for kicks. My rx would last forever before I needed a refill. Then, about a year ago, I started to suffer from severe anxiety and panic attacks. Again, I ran the risk of relapse by accepting a xanax prescription, and again I proved to myself that I could use them as needed and not go nuts on them. Perhaps the word "denial" is tripping off a few tongues right now, but I know the truth, and that is the fact that I could use these drugs only when needed and drink in extreme moderation without the urge to get back on vicodin, which I KNEW was something that I shouldn't mess with no matter how well I did with the other meds and the occasional beers. But, being human, I came to a point where it was offered to me by someone very close who had gone through my previous addiction, and after turning them down a number of times, I finally accepted one pill. And that pill sat in my drawer for a few weeks. I would open the drawer and look at it and think I didn't need it, and feel a certain satisfaction when I closed the drawer and went on my merry way. Then came the day when I opened the drawer and took the pill and rest, as they say, is history. I knew in my heart that the vicodin was unlike the other meds and the beers, but for some reason--probably the moderation I had demonstrated to myself with the other drugs--I thought I could handle it. And at first, I did. I took the pill and didn't even really like the way it made me feel, and breathed a sigh of relief. Then, a few days later, I was under extreme pressure on a work assignment, and also in pain, and rationalized that taking it again would be all right, just a temporary thing to get over the hump, and now here I am, seven months later, hooked as badly as I was the first time around. It's amazing how easily I fell into my own trap when I was doing so well and was so thankful that I could take my other meds as prescribed and have a beer or two at a BBQ with friends and not feel guilty or worry that I was going to relapse. And as long as I stayed away from the vicodin, that would have continued. Now I blew it, and have to start over again and get off of this stuff. Fortunately, once I started taking the vicodin I stopped drinking entirely because I was still sane enough to know that the tylenol was doing enough damage without adding alchohol to the mix. Haven't had a beer in 7 months, but I would gladly trade this habit for the pleasure of enjoying a cold one after a hard day's work and leaving it at that. There was a certain sense of empowerment in that lifestyle, and now all I feel is powerless. Funny how some of us actually can live a life of moderation (in fact, there are some very interesting studies out of England that show a higher success rate with moderation as opposed to abstinence) but the trick is we can only do this as long as we stay away from the one thing (or things as the case may be) that we know we cannot take in moderation. Duh. A little wisdom goes a long way.
I realize what I have written will probably elicit a few contrary responses, but we're all different and addiction is not as black-and-white an issue as some people would have you believe it is. Of course, that's just my opinion, but I speak from personal experience here, and from the heart, which is all I know.
Well, that's my rant for the day. I just meant to tip my hat to you again, JR, and to congratulate you on almost a year of sobriety, but I got off on my own tangent as usual. Thanks for all your help here. I always look forward to your posts. Keep gracing us with your wisdom, please.
Yeah, I know what you meant about justifying the need based on the Pain. In the final analysis, it was not worth it. I can't even imagine looking at 1 pill. I can tell you right now that 8 is where I would have to start if I were to go back. That is not wishful thinking mind you but only a death wish if I do. I am thankful for all of the painful memories. It keeps things in perspective as well as all of the stories on this forum. I don't dwell on the past, only enough to know that I don't want to be there, only in the here and now. We will make it. You and I and all others here. It's a daily choice. What's it gonne be, LIFE or DEATH? I am here for you my friend and all others out here.
In His Love, JR. ~!
Frenchee--Hi Sweetie. Wish I was hearing you were doing better. I really think you need to try to find someone to talk with. You're struggling so badly and in so much pain at the same time. Is there any kind of clinic (counseling) that would take you on baed on your income? I know they are out there... in the area where you are, I am CERTAIN you could find some. It might be a start. Keep me posted.
God Bless, Sooo Afraid
God Bless.
Sooo Afraid
bron.
bron
I am a user of hydrocodone. I know now that I am a addict and need help. I am trying to taper my intake but it is hard. I need advice on how to tell my wife. She had a father that was an alcoholic and I feel she will take mybeautiful kids and leav me when she finds out. Are there and ways to help me tell her I need her help? Any wives of doctors that use that can help me? Please post here to share with everyone.
Most states in the U.S. have "secret" AA/NA meetings that are only for chemically impaired Physicians, Attorneys, other high profile professions. Obiviously, if they're "secret" I don't know how to get there. Big help.
You might try popping "Narcotics Anonymous" into a search engine and see what you come up with. There may be a phone number you can call for information.
You are so very much *not* alone. I believe health professionals have the highest incidence of drug abuse in the country. No need to guess why.
I wish I could help you more, I'm sorry.
Many blessings and hope for your sanity,
Wren
Wren
Jolimar in Summit, MS, is less intense. It is really run by an RN. A doctor comes in once a week. But it is Club Med. Twelve Step all the way.
I do know that there are clinics (methadone) that offer a 21 day detox off vicodan and lortab (hydrocodone). I did not mean to be so strong on the other forum. It is a lonely road sometimes. That is why this place is so great. You get new information, like the recipe. Anything that helps, even if it is not FDA, is appreciated.
I have tried Paxil and it was HORRIBLE on me... It made me SO sleepy that I felt like a zombie. I am better off with the Effexor. I am still dealing with Headaches but a new doc gave me a prescription for blood pressure and it is suppose to be a preventive medicine. I guess we'll see. I am doing all right. Of course, I am craving and I think I will for a while. Some days are really tough. Most of the time, it is easier when I am home or in the weekend. When I am at work, it is a different story. I guess my mind wonders around.... I am glad to hear that YOU are doing better. I think about you a lot too and do miss your emails. Take care and I hope to talk to you soon.
Take care............bron.
Dallas
This too shall pass.
I've been through the withdrawals before and thought I might die, I'm not sure I can do that again but I have to, we have no choice. My husband and I love each other very much, and have a strong relationship, but he feels guilty for being the enabler, I feel guilty for using his job as our source. My question is this, would it be better to taper off to a smaller daily dosage then go cold turkey, or just go cold turkey even tho I'm ingesting 400-450 mg. of hydrocodone daily. I'm so scared, I wish I could get medical detox, but NOBODY can know about my husband because he would lose his job and RX license.
Thank you for letting me state my problem, it's the 1st time I've ever admitted that I'm a junkie...they say that's the 1st step to recovery. I welcome any kind of advice that you could give.
i was an rn, surrendered my license for a year, and i think about going back to nursing at times. it was embarassing to surrender my license, but the aspect of restricture was not an option.
you know as well as i do that you probably cannot come clean unless your husband can get you the following: clonidine (helps hold in the drugs so they don't rush out all at once and for BP elevation), a long-acting benzodiazapine(keeps the seizures at bay and lets you sleep at night) but be careful they are addictive also, lomotil or immodium (for the diarrhea), and a good multivitamin. Do not let yourself get dehydrated, if you start vomitting, get him to bring home an antiemetic. I am trying to think of everything. If I forget anything, I'll let you know. Also, it is probably not a good idea to go cold turkey. If you can, taper down by 5 or so pills a day until they are done. Then keep a few for emergency purposes until you have detoxed.
Like I said, post higher up on the forum for others to find you.
Good luck and Blessings, Ava
Isn't it frustrating how many people in the medical field are/or have been addicted to meds. It sounds like you were very smart and were able to retain your license.
My husband and I had a long talk last night and decided that we would taper first and get down to a reasonable dosage, then go cold turkey. He will be able to aquire the clonidine, etc. and said that will help a bunch. I have a very weak will power (his is much stronger), so he bought a box with a pad lock on it so that I won't be able to have immediate access to it. I think it's a good idea.
This morning I had a bit of a hard time, I woke up with heavy sweats, and vomited until nothing else would come out. I also had the leg twitching and anxiety. I took a couple of 10's and I was able to get through the rest of the morning. This seems like it is going to be a long process, but we are determined to be successful.
Ava, thanx for caring, I appreciate your advise. Sorry about the paranoia, but I think you understand where I'm coming from.
good god, a catholic and and a existentialist? no wonder you took
the handle of "angst!" you know i couldn't leave the old cough syr-
up alone...that's why i kept smoking for years...tusseniox was my
choice, but i would resort to a bottle of turpenhydrate if i HAD
too. now what about the parragoric? i had a pharmacist tell me once
that if i could spell it, he give me the whole gallon jug he had of
it!!
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
Angst, I'm Catholic too, haven't been a church goer for several years tho. I'm not sure what an existentialist is, but will look it up when I finish here. I believe in a higher power, but I like truth as a substitute, it seems more honest. I am the daughter of a recovering alcoholic. My mother has been sober for 14 years now. She went thru a 28 day hospital visit after she had a breakdown, so I do have some experience with the 12 steps. At this point I need something to grab onto, because the only thing on my mind 24-7 is the damn pills!!!! From what I've read here, the mental hangs on forever even after the physical w/d are over. I've been on Wellbutrin for several years now, so maybe that will help keep some of the depression at bay.
Skipper, from what I've read of your posts, you always "tell it like it is", very little sugar coating! I can respect that, if you have any brutal words of wisdom you want to share with me, please bring it on.
Thanks for you words,
mimi45
I had to open my heart for Jesus to come inside of my being. That was a conscious choice. I do not believe God is an outside entity. He is part of me. Often when I pray, I hear the answer, before I finish my prayers. Often, God says take your time with this or He tells me when I am being selfish or lazy.
It works for me.
Kip, It somehow works for me. Hippy had the 12 steps with truth in the place of higher power. I really liked that. I have struggled in NA and AA with the God thing. I believe we make the free choice to allow Him into our hearts and souls, then He becomes a part of us. I am afraid of giving my will to anyone other than my definition of God. I've read the chapter in the big book on Agnostics. I could not find myself in there either. I agree that a group for a central cause is greater than any one person in that group. What can be said by a person can change their hopes and aspirations. If you try to integrate or at least read all opinions, you have a better chance of finding something that can make you want what other clean people have. Thanks to you both, Ava (Angst)
I don't envy you that your husband doesn't know, I pray for you that if he finds out, he will understand that this is a horrible disease that is very hard to overcome...but it can be done. My husband shares my addiction (he's an addict as well). But we have two children that we would die if they found out. We are in the process of getting clean.
I haven't been posting very long, but I can relate to everyone here. Stay here for support and advise and people who genuinely care....it helps tremendously.
You are in my heart and prayer,
mimi
If your husband finds out, I pray he will be enlightened. This is a brain disease not a character flaw. I've dealt with it since 1997. Before that, I was a precription called Stadol Nasal Spray, it took the opiate straight to the source of my problem, vascular headaches. It was not schedules, as was the injectible form. I was soon up to a bottle a day, prescribed.
I am on the Stadon NS class action suit. Because that was the beginning of a live of drugs and going places I never would have gone. I lost my nursing license, my marriage, my child still hates me at times, and financially, I'm climbing out of this fingernail by fingernail. I have learned a lot. But I can always learn more. Keep posting and let us know how you are.
Mimi, You sound great this morning. Happy Mother's Day, I think you spoke of your children before in a post. You deserve a good day - not extra pills thought. Get tough and mean toward drugs. Look what they have done for you. Trouble and more trouble. I always check this forum. I'll be here to talk or whatever I can do. The clonidine needs to start before you guys go completely cold turkey. It has a component to hold in some of the meds. I'm glad you are doing well. Just get mad as heck at the drugs. It will help. Good luck and Blessings, Ava.
A personal THANK YOU to Rowanshyne for your kind words and feelings toward a complete stranger. Please keep checking this board as others could benefit from your kindness. My wife will be helping me through this, she even blew me away with a bouquet of roses just 24 hours after I told her the worst news with a card saying, " thank you for telling me, I am proud of you!"
this made me cry....we should all have such wonderful people in our lives, I am so very lucky. Good Luck to you all.
Dr. X
want to be clean, so I will do this!
You said to HATE the pills, I already do, but what I hate the most is that I can't stop thinking about them and my next dose. That's why I'm checking out NA/AA. I may not go to the meetings yet (secuity reasons), but I'm going to gather as much info as I can.
I am determined,
mimi
M'dear, right now, you're thinking you want to use because your son is growing away from you. Try to use that thought to get strong and mean (as I believe Ava/Angst says) about drugs. Get strong and mean so you'll be able to *experienxce* that growth with ever fiber of your being..
I don't remember the first six years of my daughter's life because of Darvocet. I'm *not* going to let Vicodin take any more of her life away from me.
My brother once told me about an essay he had to write. "Who do you admire and look up to the most". He answered, his children.
He's right, you know. After he told me that, I started watching my Moon and Stars in a different way. I've been awe struck every day, ever since.
They say you can't quit for any one but yourself, and that's the truth. I am too selfish to let anything keep me from experiencing every single emotion, sun beam, moon drop, budding tree and moment of growth and change in my child.
You can get selfish, too. You have two lives to watch unfold and soon you'll realize that yours is just as facinating to watch as theirs.
Many blessings upon you, and yours,
Wren
Good luck and let me know what you decide.
you are not alone. you have found a forum full of people who either
are going thru or have been through. what you are facing will not
be easy, but it is far, far from impossiable. post back to us...
there is always room for just one more addict here!
try posting closer to the top of the page, it's easy to get overlooked down here in the basement..
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
I know you are kind of waiting until the 25th of May for your son's graduation. Keep me posted on how it goes. It will not be easy for either one of you with the pharmacy so close.
Just think about the past addiction, and what you do not remember. Then think about the present and future, and what you want to remember. Your children will be going to college and then you'll have grandchildren. Getting off the lortab will be a blessing to you both. It will save his career and both of your lives. I think and pray for you. Good luck and Blessings,
Ava
I remember that a lot will not start happening until after the 25th of May. I am here just to listen. Post me anytime.
Good luck and Blessings, Ava
Love always,
Dallas
That you can do. A word of experience strength and hope. You have that. Blessings, Ava
I hope you still have a phone line so you can read this. Maybe you can check the posts at a local library if you lose the phone.
By now, you're probably over the worst of it. I hope you were able to get The Recipe.
This really is miserable stuff, but you'll live and once you're through this, you'll *really* live.
Hope you're able to get back to us real soon.
Wren
Thanks for listening.....good luck to all, God Bless.
Dr.X
Well she went to Al-Anon and let it all out. She fees better about me and we will work it out. I am in a program for addicted Dr.'s, 3 NA meetings a week and 2 professional support group meetings a week. I have been clean for 2 weeks now, a few withdrawl symptoms but no real cravings...NA was great! I was welcomed very nicely and feel automatically close to these people. I can't wait to go again... This group here is super too Keep reaching out to others, you all helped me get on the right track!!!!
God Bless, Dr. X
My uncle is a doctor. He got busted for writing too many scripts to a friend's wife for diet pills. He could only write 3 and 4's for a year. Now he's back in action.
Here in the south, the recovering nurses and doctors have to give random UDS, and follow many other requirements. I surrendered my license for now. Enough time has passed that I could go before the board to get them back, I just do not know that I want that pressure. I had to perform procedures with the doc on the phone. It was his place to come to the hospital. Hell, he was getting paid by the patient. Between that and the politics, I'm just not a "yes" person.
Good luck, stay clean, and I'm glad your wife is staying with you. It would be difficult to beat this without her support. Don't forget to treat her nice. Ava
God Bless, Dr. X
have "using dreams". Did you get high in the dream? To my counsellor it means something whether you get high or not in the
using dream. In my last using dream, about 2 weeks ago, I did not get high. He said that was progress. I told him I would call progress not having using dreams anymore. I had them worse when I was not on methadone. When I kicked dilaudid at home two times, I had more using dreams. They are like cravings. There is little you can do about them. Sharing at meetings and reading
your NA basic text may help. I'm glad you are doing well. I hope the board takes it easy on you. You seem like an okay person. Good luck and Blessings, Ava
I can still remember the first group meeting that my wife and I went to in my 2nd week of rehab. Boy, she unleashed with things like " I can't believe that he made the decision to jeapordize his 18 year well respected law enforcement career, our family his life." All that I could do was sit there and take it. I believed as you do, that the disease was self-created. The counselor also looked at my wife and said that the addiction was making the choice for me at this point, the bad choices that had now brought me as well as she there to the meeting. I had a hard time accepting this fact but when I thought about all of the times that I said that I was going to stop and just plain could not, there was creedence to what she had just told my wife. If it were that easy then we would not have become addicts. I am now 367 days clean, having just celebrated my 1 year anniversary on the 27th of May. I still feel the ache of losing my career/license, the whole kitten kaboodle however, I still have my family(after much trial and tribulation with understanding) and for me, my total surrender to God almighty. I was also blessed with a new career.
We do see clearer after the fog has lifted. You'll see. I too, have friends that have become impaired physicians. Not to sound too cliche' but there are consequences for every act that we have committed, good or bad. That was a hard one for me to accept. I truly believe that the more that your wife see's what you are becoming in the treatment programs, that she see's what you have always been just that there was a side of your personality that was brought to life by unfortunate means(it could be seen as a blessing down the road), she will see that you are still her husband. She is not alone. She will eventually meet other impaired physician's wives/husbands along the way. She will see that they are still functioning parts of the body.
You just hang in there and concentrate on your recovery. That is most important right now. I will be praying for you and your wife along the way. You keep coming back to this site. There is much wisdom here as you have already noticed. These guys are great listeners and truly empathetic. We are here for you Doc!
In His Love, JR.
Love,
Dr.X
I don't know what area of medicine that you practice but if it's along the lines of general medicine or family, watch for the Friday 4:00pm, seekers who are coming to you for the weekend fix of hydro. If the pharmacist calls and tells you that so and so is getting multiple prescriptions from other doctors as well as yourself then listen to them. I've even arrested impaired pharmacists in the past so they are fully aware of the demons. Enough of the soap box. I did a lot of research after my rehab.
God Almighty understands and waits. I will continue to lift you up as well as your family. "This too shall pass."
In His Love, JR.~
after 5 glorious years clean I picked up again cause they were given to me and I was curious. Re-addiction happened so fast!!
And here I am 9 months later with a raging addiction. So let me know how you do and I will let you know how I do. Love Baddgirl
time with methadone. i know how hard it is to w/d. but it saved
my life this time. i am maintaining for now. when it is time to detox, i will do it as i did before. i have no cravings. i do not look at my arms and feet for veins anymore. i still have
dreams of using. the last one, i did not use, others around me
were using. i'm sure my counseller will say that it is an improvement. i am working. i am becoming a productive member of society again. i surrendered my nursing license. Detoxing was enough stress. at their mandating, the 2 rehabs were terrible. i did not learn much, not that i had an open mind. the doctors were trying to follow the licensure board's rules, not treating me. i was on a benzodiazapine. i've been on one or another since i was 14 years old and i am 36 years old now.
they tried a slow phenobard detox to keep the seizures at bay. i
did not seiz, but i did have a heart attack {an anterior infarct}
i would sue, if the statue of limitations is not up. proving that could be difficult. the timing of the heart attack. i know
when it happened. i remember the jaw and arm pain. unlike any pain i've ever had. well, i've vented enough. good luck to both
of you.
you can do it. get strong and mean about the drugs. anyone who
wants to give you drugs is not your friend. Good luck, Angst
In His Love, JR.
Anyway...you seem to be doing wonderful and I think thats great!! Youre going to make it the whole way through. : )
talk to you soon.
I will say that I did break the law in my addiction by doctor hopping but I got the addiction through 27 surgeries on my body for various and sundry things. That was never asked about. I had more scripts for vicodin as righteous pain meds than you can shake a stick at. This was all before the addiction. It became pretty horrible after that. Oh well, that is a dead past and I do mean dead.
I am now 13 months clean after 12 years of the vic. addiction. I still go to A.A. meetings and I still take it one day at a time. I do not crave any more. I don't have the dreams any longer. God spared me from further torment. BY THE WAY, you are certainly not alone in your recovery. Don't read to heavy into the "will always be recovering" part of the recovery. In all actuality, life is a daily recovery from good and bad decisions that we make each and every day. Think about it. Just like making friends in past jobs, at past schools, if anyone knows about your recovery, it will fade with time, in their minds. It will always be there in your mind but the impact that it has had in events/jobs/your life in general will lessen with time as well. That is if you stay away from the demon. Remember, you don't start over, you just pick up where you left off and with a vengence as well.(I am talking about the addiction if you go back.)
I am here for you as are all of the great people here. You will sometimes see questions about on-line pharmacies here. This is not the place for it. If you gotta keep using, don't darken our presence here. This site is for healing and recovery. There is great compassion and understanding here waiting to be had.
I will try and make some of the chats. If you don't hear from me for a couple of weeks at a time, it's because I am not around. I will get back to you. I promise. In the meantime, I will lift you up in prayer for healing and growth.
In His Love, JR.
and other pills. we took about 20-25 10mg hydro at day and about 20 soma every night.i am 37 yrs old about 100 pounds with 3 children. one night myhusband took around 70 soma and died.
i've been trying to stop this ever since. i have alot of guilt.
i stopped the soma and others but the hydrocodone is very very hard to stop. i took my last pill yesterday and last night i thought i was going to die or go get crack. i had a piece of moraphine that someone gave me and finally took it around 3:00am. i feel OK right now but i know in just a little while i will feel like ****.(sorry) is there anyone out there that can help me? is there anything i can do for myself to help with the terrible withdawals?i only take about 4-6 pills a day now. i thought that if i cut back the withdrawals wouldn't be so bad but. losing my husband before my eyes was hard i'm tired of trying to be strong. thank you, jeanie
welcome to the forum. there will aalways be room for one more ad-
dict in here, so come on in.
first of all post in a thread close to the top. down here in the
basement and it's real easy to be overlooked. don't be timid, just break a thread closer to the top.
did you say you are at 5-6 10mg hydro/day? you have already done
a good amount of tapering, i know it's tedious, but if you can taper, do it. search around the threads and find thomas' detox recipe. i seem to have best luck starting the l-tyrosine,b6,zink, magnesium a week out so if your tapering start now.
i know that if anything ever happened to my spouse, i would most
certainly go crazy, but lets not go there. grief and opiates are a fallowed combination....a roll down the gutter for sure. please
keep posting and let us know what is going on. this forum is full
of people just exactly like you!
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
i worry about my weight. i'm up to about 105 (i think) my average weight is 100. when i'm depressed.sometimes 90. i have an eating dissorder. but when i'm taking a good amount of pills i eat good.
i got on the methadone clinic but it was so far to have to drive. so i TRIED getting off it. bad bad bad!!!!!!!!!
do not get on it!!!! unless you plan to stay on it forever. i bieve in God and i know i have an angel. i have to. i think i'd be dead by now if it weren't for her/him and God. but i had to get back on pills tio get off the methadone. i'm soooo scared i'm gonna get back on crack. i feel like i need to be chained to my bed to keep from doind something stupid. thank you again. jeaniec
scrool up the newer topics "above this one."
hey don't worry about if ya can't do it...i'll check back on you
tomarrow....ok
keep an angel on your shoulder
kip
Thanks in advance for your help!
What I need to know is: (1)What will be the most effective method of tapering off(If someone here gives me a tapering method Ill most likely follow through with it rather than reading other posts to inform myself). (2)How long will the withdrawls continue? (3) What will I need to have on hand to battle through the withdrawls.
Again, I want to state that I dont need 6 to 9 pills every day to function. Its merely a lack of will and focus that I have trouble with. Its now 5:45 and Ive only taken 4 today and Im doing fine. My last dose was at 1pm. I guess what Im looking for mostly here are some words of encouragement and of course some answers to my questions. Replies will be greatly appreciated, thank you very much
I came to this forum about the same time you did... SAME THING, Ultram addiction-- about 30-50 50Mg pills per day from those very same online clinics.. I think the only thing that stopped me was the FDA/DEA Nasty letter I got when my last BIG tramadol shipment was seized by U.S. Customs. Glad to hear that your still on the right track! I'm learning to live with out the Ultram as well.... BUT, I think if I'd bought say, 100,000 pills, I might still be on that ****!
See you later.. And keep us up on what is happening from time to time!
Jess
Thank you SO much for your support and words of advice. I actually got such a bad migraine over the weekend that I went to Urgent Care and they did prescribe Vicodin for me - but only 12 and only 5/500 - which was very good. I wanted to use those to taper, but ended up having no self-control. I took 4 the first day and the other 8 yesterday. So today I'm back where I started, but I think it's going to be better because I was on eight 7.5/500s per day and in some ways I suppose that I've now tapered some. I have a refill for 4oz. Hycotuss cough syrup (my greatest weakness) sitting at the pharmacy from a previous bronchitis, but I refuse to pick it up until the withdrawal gets really bad, and so far, today has been cake! I am so encouraged. I know that I will never get worse than I was anyway, because I care too much about my liver to exceed 4000 APAP in a day, and I was up to that in the eight Lortabs. Since I no longer got the "high" at that quantity, and know that I'd never go higher, I am committed to getting off now. Plus, I'm a long-distance runner, and Vicodin suppresses my breathing to the point that I get asthma after 10 miles now. If I want to improve my running, I have to get off of it anyway. I'm really feeling encouraged today by how great I feel with no Vicodin in my system, although It's only been about 16 hours. I have Ambien for sleep tonight, and Sudafed/Tyelonol and coffee to keep me alert at work today. That seems to help a lot. I hope the withdrawal doesn't set in this afternoon - I'm really worried about that. But I know if it gets so bad, I do have that Hycotuss ready and waiting. I'd rather save that for later though. At this point, I just want to make it through the work day without anyone suspecting anything... I've taken way too many sick days this year already, and am risking losing a great job in a career that I've worked towards for years. Anyway, I'm rambling now, but just wanted to thank you. I hope to hear back from you soon. Do you think that I'll experience much more in the way of withdrawal? It's been over a week since I took a 7.5/500, and only took those 12 5/500s since then... Am I over the worst of it?
So here I am 6 weeks post surgery after burning my last refill of 100 5/500's in only 4 days.....I cant sleep, think or concentrate...I sweat, shake and can get mean as a snake at a moments notice.....not looking forward to the next few days / weeks
CG
Please post closer to the top so the others can find you, they call this the basement:)
Me and my husband are on day 6 of no more 10/325's we were taking between 15-20 a day/Soma too , can't forget that. We had a rough 3 days but then it got a lot better. The chills and feeling sick are horrible but they do get better. I promise, we are still have a bit of a stomach problem but we are doing really well. So keep strong and know that you can get through this. Please keep posting and be strong...
Missy
I gave anesthesia for 16 years and never touched a narcotic. I retired, became a sucessful trader and got addicted to the stuff. Go figure. I would have several vials of narcotics and benzos in my pocket at all times, and never had the urge to use.
I really feel stupid and pretty worthless at this point. I still see patients part time to provide a service to them. It would be hard for them to travel to get the treatments I provide.
I guess that the feeling of isolation is the worst. My family and friends have no idea. I really dont have an urge to start up again, but I know that I am an addict for life. My mom was an alcoholic and drug abuser and I swore I would not get there. Well, I did. Dont drink, but sure liked the hydrocodone.
I have finally realized that it is a false high and I need to provide my own real high. Thanks for listening and I will help in this group if needed.
Sleeper ( not sleeping too well now though..:)
I gave anesthesia for 16 years and never touched a narcotic. I retired, became a sucessful trader and got addicted to the stuff. Go figure. I would have several vials of narcotics and benzos in my pocket at all times, and never had the urge to use.
I really feel stupid and pretty worthless at this point. I still see patients part time to provide a service to them. It would be hard for them to travel to get the treatments I provide.
I guess that the feeling of isolation is the worst. My family and friends have no idea. I really dont have an urge to start up again, but I know that I am an addict for life. My mom was an alcoholic and drug abuser and I swore I would not get there. Well, I did. Dont drink, but sure liked the hydrocodone.
I have finally realized that it is a false high and I need to provide my own real high. Thanks for listening and I will help in this group if needed.
Sleeper ( not sleeping too well now though..:)