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I got free of Sub, and so can you
I started taking Sub in mid August 2006, a little over a year ago. I started reading some discussion forums a couple months after I started taking it, and was very stunned and discouraged with what I read. All anyone could say was how incredibly hard it was to get off the Sub. I just wanted to add my story and tell you how I got off it about 13 months after starting. There is hope if you approach it right.
This is what worked for me.
1) Take only as much as you need to keep symptoms from getting bad between doses.
2) Decrease the dosage very slowly because even low dosages are powerful.
3) Try to work out and eat right.
4) Expect waves of mild symptoms for a few weeks after stopping.
I had been taking Hydro daily in various forms at increasing amounts for about 5 years, and for the last 8 months or so I was taking between 20 and 25 Norco a day. Since I was only seeing one doctor, I had to buy the majority of them off the street. I fell into a big financial hole. My life revolved around being able to get enough pills every day. Most of you are familiar with this scenario.
Depressed about my finances, disgusted by my weakness, and desperate to get free of dependence, I tried a variety of approaches to cut down by myself. They all failed as I just kept taking every pill I could get my hands on. So I approached my pill doctor about starting on Sub.
He started me on half of an 8 mg pill once a day. I was amazed to find that little bit took away my withdrawal symptoms, and I embraced this miracle drug as my savior. But even the 4 mg a day left me feeling drugged in the morning and drowsy during the day, so I bought a pill cutter and started cutting the halves into slightly smaller pieces.
After I started reading some forums about people getting off Hydro, I started to worry about my decision to start Sub. From what I read and from my experiences when the Sub started to wear off between doses, I started to wonder if I’d ever get off. But trying to deal with Sub seemed much better than my other approaches to getting clean. So I kept taking Sub and tried to see if I could cut down.
After several months I tried moving to twice a day doses, trying to take smaller and smaller pieces at each dose. It was a VERY slow process as my body struggled to accept smaller doses gradually.
There was some mild discomfort each day as I waited until the symptoms started to show up before I took the next dose, and I adjusted the dosage accordingly. But I took the next dose before the symptoms got very bad. And I tried to keep adjusting the dosage so that I started feeling the mild symptoms about 12 hours after the previous dose.
A little discomfort seemed a small price to pay to get free of the dependence on pills, but I hated the withdrawal symptoms so much that I never let them get too bad. You’ll have to deal with some discomfort if you expect to cut down, but don’t torture yourself. It kind of defeats the purpose of Sub.
About 6 months into it I was down to cutting the smaller 2 mg pills into smaller pieces. I was taking less than .5 mg twice a day. You would think that when you’re taking such a small dose you wouldn’t have much trouble getting to a lower dose, but that’s not my experience. It wasn’t real easy to cut down lower very quickly.
It took me another 7 months of cutting the pills into smaller and smaller pieces before I could get free of them. I was down to taking about 1/32 of a 2 mg pill twice a day, and still felt symptoms when it got time for the next dose.
I read a posting on this site in the addiction forums by pastAndFuture posted on 07/10/07 and tried following his advice on diet, supplements and exercise. The link to that posting is: http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/99515.
I bought some protein supplement powder, some vitamin B complex, and some liquid fish oil supplement and started taking them every day to try and rebuild the neurotransmitters he mentioned in his posting. I can’t say for certain that it helped, but I certainly can’t argue with the results.
One day I was surprised to find that I hadn’t taken any Sub by the end of the day. I expected problems sleeping, but found that I slept through the night fine. I didn’t feel real great the next morning, but found that I could get through the day without taking any more.
I got periodic short waves of mild symptoms for another 3 weeks, and my bowels were a mess during that whole time. But it’s been a month now and I’m feeling pretty good. I’m working out again regularly and my strength is increasing more and more. And for the first time in over 6 years I can actually go away from home without having to check that I have enough medication, whether it’s Hydro or Sub, to make it through the day. I feel like I’ve been let out of prison and can’t tell you how great it feels.
I wish the best for those of you still trapped in dependency, but please have faith that you can make it out if you put the effort into it. And that freedom is well worth the effort.
This is what worked for me.
1) Take only as much as you need to keep symptoms from getting bad between doses.
2) Decrease the dosage very slowly because even low dosages are powerful.
3) Try to work out and eat right.
4) Expect waves of mild symptoms for a few weeks after stopping.
I had been taking Hydro daily in various forms at increasing amounts for about 5 years, and for the last 8 months or so I was taking between 20 and 25 Norco a day. Since I was only seeing one doctor, I had to buy the majority of them off the street. I fell into a big financial hole. My life revolved around being able to get enough pills every day. Most of you are familiar with this scenario.
Depressed about my finances, disgusted by my weakness, and desperate to get free of dependence, I tried a variety of approaches to cut down by myself. They all failed as I just kept taking every pill I could get my hands on. So I approached my pill doctor about starting on Sub.
He started me on half of an 8 mg pill once a day. I was amazed to find that little bit took away my withdrawal symptoms, and I embraced this miracle drug as my savior. But even the 4 mg a day left me feeling drugged in the morning and drowsy during the day, so I bought a pill cutter and started cutting the halves into slightly smaller pieces.
After I started reading some forums about people getting off Hydro, I started to worry about my decision to start Sub. From what I read and from my experiences when the Sub started to wear off between doses, I started to wonder if I’d ever get off. But trying to deal with Sub seemed much better than my other approaches to getting clean. So I kept taking Sub and tried to see if I could cut down.
After several months I tried moving to twice a day doses, trying to take smaller and smaller pieces at each dose. It was a VERY slow process as my body struggled to accept smaller doses gradually.
There was some mild discomfort each day as I waited until the symptoms started to show up before I took the next dose, and I adjusted the dosage accordingly. But I took the next dose before the symptoms got very bad. And I tried to keep adjusting the dosage so that I started feeling the mild symptoms about 12 hours after the previous dose.
A little discomfort seemed a small price to pay to get free of the dependence on pills, but I hated the withdrawal symptoms so much that I never let them get too bad. You’ll have to deal with some discomfort if you expect to cut down, but don’t torture yourself. It kind of defeats the purpose of Sub.
About 6 months into it I was down to cutting the smaller 2 mg pills into smaller pieces. I was taking less than .5 mg twice a day. You would think that when you’re taking such a small dose you wouldn’t have much trouble getting to a lower dose, but that’s not my experience. It wasn’t real easy to cut down lower very quickly.
It took me another 7 months of cutting the pills into smaller and smaller pieces before I could get free of them. I was down to taking about 1/32 of a 2 mg pill twice a day, and still felt symptoms when it got time for the next dose.
I read a posting on this site in the addiction forums by pastAndFuture posted on 07/10/07 and tried following his advice on diet, supplements and exercise. The link to that posting is: http://www.medhelp.org/posts/show/99515.
I bought some protein supplement powder, some vitamin B complex, and some liquid fish oil supplement and started taking them every day to try and rebuild the neurotransmitters he mentioned in his posting. I can’t say for certain that it helped, but I certainly can’t argue with the results.
One day I was surprised to find that I hadn’t taken any Sub by the end of the day. I expected problems sleeping, but found that I slept through the night fine. I didn’t feel real great the next morning, but found that I could get through the day without taking any more.
I got periodic short waves of mild symptoms for another 3 weeks, and my bowels were a mess during that whole time. But it’s been a month now and I’m feeling pretty good. I’m working out again regularly and my strength is increasing more and more. And for the first time in over 6 years I can actually go away from home without having to check that I have enough medication, whether it’s Hydro or Sub, to make it through the day. I feel like I’ve been let out of prison and can’t tell you how great it feels.
I wish the best for those of you still trapped in dependency, but please have faith that you can make it out if you put the effort into it. And that freedom is well worth the effort.
I have posted info like that hundreds of times. i think people don't really "get it" and think there docs know all.. I posted a "Sub FAQ'' a few months ago and i think 2 people read it and responded. When I see someone here that is thinking of starting it or has just started I try to tell them all the info i have found, some listen some don't... can't save em all...LOL There have been a few who listened and got off and are now clean instead of being stuck on Sub. And I am so glad that i was able to help a few get out of addiction and truely start their recovery.
She has many times and you can use the search engine up top.... it's a very usefull tool. I think something along that order will come up with her name and I'm sure she would be glad to post it again.
best
fish
best
fish
I had no idea about any of that information, and I'd bet most of the people getting started on a Sub program aren't given that information. I think it would be really useful to a lot of people just starting on Sub if you posted it as a separate string, with a title that makes it clear what the information is about. It could help a lot of people avoid getting dependent on Sub.
Wow that is a great story and it's nice that you came back to post it. For every post, 20 people read and get helped and yours will definitely help. Please let us know your progress down the road?
best
fish
best
fish
They start people on higher doses because the ''blocking ' effect only works at doses over 8mgs smaller doses you could still take opiates if you waited 24 hours or so. They have you take more so the drug builds up in your system and you can't get high in those first few days of making the switch. I disregarded what my doc told me to take on day one, he prescribed 12-16mgs for me on day one, i took 6 and was fine i actually had a bit of a buzz. I did tons of research on other sites and even read the original sub training manual and it looked like if you were on it longer than 21 days you would more than likely become dependent and have a harder time getting off. So i took the caution of people who had done it over what the docs were trying to say, essentially docs only know what they are told by the drug company, patients are the real testement of how it works. And there are people who are on maintenece that are still on their intital sub doses they started with, which is totally wrong.. maintence was supposed to be at 2-4mgs doses. i guess so they had a fighting chance of getting off of it.. instead people are taking 12-32mgs for 6 months or longer which is nuts if you ask me.. You saw how hard it was to get off 4mgs taking it long term..
Congrats on beating the monster... you will provide much needed inspiration here for those still caught in the fear of quitting..
XOXO
Stephanie
Congrats on beating the monster... you will provide much needed inspiration here for those still caught in the fear of quitting..
XOXO
Stephanie
This coming Sunday will be 5 weeks without taking any kind of medicine, after 5 years of daily hydro and 13 months of Sub. I'm kind of surprised when I hear that people used it only for a week or two and then just quit, but maybe if I had tried that approach I could have worked it that way too. My doctor suggested a longer timeframe for getting the hydro effects out of my system, then a slow tapering over 6 months or a year.
My doctor was new to the Sub program and only went through the certification process with me as his first patient. I don't think he was too sure of how to approach it. And I assume the drug companies guidelines probably suggest longer use of it to maximize profits, but don't know that to be true.
From what I've read here it seems that most doctors must start patients out on higher doses than necessary. I used hydro for 5 years and ended up taking 20-25 Norco a day for at least the last 6 months. I only needed 4 mg a day when I started Sub, and that turned out to be too much because it made me feel so drowsy. I can't imagine how people can require three or four of the 8 mg pills per day to address their withdrawal symptoms. If I had started that high I'd still be on Sub now.
My doctor was new to the Sub program and only went through the certification process with me as his first patient. I don't think he was too sure of how to approach it. And I assume the drug companies guidelines probably suggest longer use of it to maximize profits, but don't know that to be true.
From what I've read here it seems that most doctors must start patients out on higher doses than necessary. I used hydro for 5 years and ended up taking 20-25 Norco a day for at least the last 6 months. I only needed 4 mg a day when I started Sub, and that turned out to be too much because it made me feel so drowsy. I can't imagine how people can require three or four of the 8 mg pills per day to address their withdrawal symptoms. If I had started that high I'd still be on Sub now.
How long have you been off of Sub now?? I used it and got off hydro's and percs almost 4 months ago. Took it for 10 days started at 6mgs and went down everyday til I was done. Then used clonidine for a few days. Felt great. I thought it was easy actuallly... I got off heroin years ago with methadone and that was worse for me.. meth made me feel really high still all the time.. so it didn't feel like quitting.
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