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Best way to taper
So this is my first time to post on a forum like this. I am desperate and ready to quit my long norco addiction. I have been using almost 2 years for legit pain but also I like the feeling so began taking more and more. I got up to 3 doses of 30 MG a day (90mg). So the day before yesterday I decided it was time to taper and quit (I tries cold turkey about 7 months ago stayed clean about 3 days and couldn't take it). So I knew I needed someone I could trust and that would support me, that I could hand over all my pills to and they could distribute. I have three children, a very good job, and a good reputation. my husband isn't aware, all of my friends work with me and I didn't want them to lose confidence. So my ex husband and I are great friends and he had some suspicion of my problem. I called him up, he is more than happy to help and is being so supportive. Ok so this sure is long and drawn out :) but my 90 mg day habit dropped to 60 mg a day yesterday. I made it, last dose was at 3 pm yesterday. This morning at 8 I was struggling. So I rode over to my exes to get my 60 mg for the day. He even had written me a bible verse and word of encouragement in the envelope with my pills. So I can feel the drastic drop for sure. Where do I go from here? The physical and mental aspects, how do I deal? And what is the best way to taper further?
Actually, there's many people who are WORLD FAMOUS or otherwise prominent (big shots, if you will) who have or have had a drug abuse problem. Many of us hold prominent positions in our industry or in the community. For many, revelation of a drug addiction problem will make the local news, and for some, the national news.
How many times have we heard that a famous movie star, who had everything going for them, or a career was shooting to the stars, so to speak, who all-of-a-sudden had to go into rehab to shake the Vike.
Remember Rush Limbaugh?! Wow, what a story that was. Can't believe he dodged criminal charges on his situation.
Perhaps the most tragic was Robert Downy, Jr. (In fact, he is my inspiration and motivation on why I have never escalated to stronger drugs, instead sticking to my prescription - # 100 10/325 Vikes every 12 days.)
His story is compelling because his addiction was so controlling he ended up in prison.
Then there's "Chandler Bing" (aka Matthew Perry in real life). In 1997 Perry did a 28-day rehab program due to his Vike addiction. After suffering a relapse, four years later (2001) he entered rehab again for his Vike addiction.
Bottom Line: You are not alone. Drug addiction touches all levels of society, regardless of social station, education, achievement, or financial success.
I suspect you would be surprised to find out the percentage of people you know who have either a drug or alcohol problem. I bet many of them are like me, a "closeted addict."
How many times have we heard that a famous movie star, who had everything going for them, or a career was shooting to the stars, so to speak, who all-of-a-sudden had to go into rehab to shake the Vike.
Remember Rush Limbaugh?! Wow, what a story that was. Can't believe he dodged criminal charges on his situation.
Perhaps the most tragic was Robert Downy, Jr. (In fact, he is my inspiration and motivation on why I have never escalated to stronger drugs, instead sticking to my prescription - # 100 10/325 Vikes every 12 days.)
His story is compelling because his addiction was so controlling he ended up in prison.
Then there's "Chandler Bing" (aka Matthew Perry in real life). In 1997 Perry did a 28-day rehab program due to his Vike addiction. After suffering a relapse, four years later (2001) he entered rehab again for his Vike addiction.
Bottom Line: You are not alone. Drug addiction touches all levels of society, regardless of social station, education, achievement, or financial success.
I suspect you would be surprised to find out the percentage of people you know who have either a drug or alcohol problem. I bet many of them are like me, a "closeted addict."
My plan is to be down to # 3 day starting tomorrow and to "test" being on zero by mid March.
The "test" will be to go through WD and see how it goes. This will mean my slow taper took six weeks.
I have read on a number of sites (that discuss taper schedules and techniques in detail) that a slow taper worked for the people who tried it.
After that, addicts have to deal with the usual temptations, especially since their tolerance to Vike, for example, will be gone and that taking pills will once again give them a high.
And then, of course there's all the other reasons for abusing drugs (stress, dinners we don't want to attend, depression, energy, etc.)
The "test" will be to go through WD and see how it goes. This will mean my slow taper took six weeks.
I have read on a number of sites (that discuss taper schedules and techniques in detail) that a slow taper worked for the people who tried it.
After that, addicts have to deal with the usual temptations, especially since their tolerance to Vike, for example, will be gone and that taking pills will once again give them a high.
And then, of course there's all the other reasons for abusing drugs (stress, dinners we don't want to attend, depression, energy, etc.)
Jordan gives escellent advice! Research as much as you can so you know what to expect. It makes a difference in how you approach it. A positive "can do" attitude is so much better than fighting it. I know you like the buzz, but eventually that turns on you to where you don't get it, and you take them to function and feel normal. Get the Thomas recipe stuff and start taking the supplements now so you are healthier when you do hit wd. They really do help!
As far as telling your hubby, I am a big proponent of not telling them IF you know its going to make things worse for you. Id hate to see someone come on here and say their spouse left or hurt them. We dont know your circumstances and life off here but its important to include someone...just worried if current hubby finds out who you chose to include while in a rocky marriage, it could make him upset that the ex was who you went to instead of someone else. That's all I was trying to say.
As far as telling your hubby, I am a big proponent of not telling them IF you know its going to make things worse for you. Id hate to see someone come on here and say their spouse left or hurt them. We dont know your circumstances and life off here but its important to include someone...just worried if current hubby finds out who you chose to include while in a rocky marriage, it could make him upset that the ex was who you went to instead of someone else. That's all I was trying to say.
Thank you. I am just in the beginning, still a looong road. So I took 25.5 mg at 8:30 this morning. I have 30 mg left for the day. Was gonna hold out until 3. I am bored, temptation is driving me crazy. 2 more hours... I can wait.... Just so bored... It is going to be a process I can already tell. I don't want to brag or seem arrogant but I do have a very prominent position in my job. Very successful to be so young. I think how can I be so determined yet so weak! So you are down to 4 a day. When do you plan to come off completely?
I am a very disciplined person. My youth made me that way. (I was in an orphanage until age 6, and otherwise had no parents. So I had to think things through myself and make decisions. For example, one day I made the decision to get a college degree. So I gave up a high paying job, my house, and two cars, and rode a moped for seven years through 4 years of college and grad school. It was a decision I made myself because I did not have anyone saying "you should go to college, college is important.")
Anyway, I found a method that works for me, that included first understanding everything about the drug I am abusing (Vike), and understanding addictions.
Then I had to understand myself. How this all got started (pain prescription), how I started abuse (taking Vike made me feel GREAT), the severity of my problem, wanting to do something about it, understanding all aspects of withdrawals, researching the different ways to handle it, understanding the mind games that would go on in my head, etc.
Having a creative mind, I then came up with techniques that worked for me.
For example, I noticed what I call the "lag effect" when taking Vike. The danger I faced is that when I did not feel the Vike "taking hold" within 15 minutes after popping pills, I would take two more. What I discovered one day was that pills did not take effect until about 30 to 45 minutes from popping them.
On that discovery I exercised patience. I would take a pill then wait 30 to 45 minutes to see how I felt. Sure enough, the pills were working. So there was no need to take more pills 10 to 20 minutes after popping some earlier.
This was a significant discovery for me because last year I would have taken # 3 10/325 pills so I could be sure they would work, so to speak, or I would try to moderate, take # 2, then 15 minutes later take another # 2 because I was worried that the two taken 15 minutes earlier were not enough.
Another mistake I was making, losing track of how many pills I took, and when. Like many abusers I would say to myself "Gee, I took some pills at least four hours ago, so now it is PILL TIME!" I would then take two to three more pills. Turns out I was taking # 2 to # 3 pills every three hours! Sometimes the spread was less than two hours.
The way I fixed the "not keeping track" problem was to get a few of those seven-day pill minders sold at drug stores (a compartment for each day of the week). On one of them I wrote the hour intervals of when I could take a pill(s). In the other I counted out how many were allowed for each day. For each day I would transfer the pills from the day compartment into the hourly compartment.
The pill minders are used in place of your ex. (I have one friend, an ex GF) who is my best friend. She could be my "pill minder" and dole out pills, like your ex is doing. I think you are very fortunate to have that arrangement. I have not done similar because I have chosen to keep my addiction private. And of course, I am so disciplined that I know I'm capable of doing the self-taper.
Another thing I use is a diary/journal. I type all my feelings, keep track of intake, and describe every aspect of my experiences. The log on pill intake is really helpful because it is quite easy to forget when I have last taken pills. (The Satanic Vike Master really plays tricks on my mind. He is always whispering "Come on, you deserve a pill, you took a pill ten hours ago." When I check my log it turns out it was only three hours ago. So I tell my Satanic Vike Master to go fcuk himself.)
The diary is also motivational. By writing down my feelings I can recall events days later, where usually I would have forgotten what I was thinking at the time. It helps in setting goals, and being motivated to meet them.
At the end of each day when I write "Total Intake for Day # 5" I feel like I have accomplished something. (No, I don't reward myself with more pills :) I also find that the pill minders and diary cause me to create goals and to try meeting them.
Note: From what you have posted it sounds like you are quite capable of beating this. So if I were you I would be encouraged.
By the way, IMO making access inconvenient or difficult is a great way to stay on your taper schedule. Eventually you will learn that if you get # 5 pills for the day and take them all within 6 hours, that you will then have to suffer until getting tomorrows allotment. You are very lucky to have someone willing to help you get through this.
Note: Some of those who know the answer can respond, but from what I have read, YOUR level of addiction is low enough that a slow taper will work and you won't suffer much, if any, WD symptoms. The demon you are fighting appears to be the temptation to take pills because they make you feel all warm and fuzzy and can conquer the world.
All I can say to that is those days will end at some point, then you will take pills for the reasons we do, just to be able to minimally function in society and to stop WD discomfort, which of course are moronic reasons to be ingesting drugs.
So congrats to you, nipping this in the bud.
Anyway, I found a method that works for me, that included first understanding everything about the drug I am abusing (Vike), and understanding addictions.
Then I had to understand myself. How this all got started (pain prescription), how I started abuse (taking Vike made me feel GREAT), the severity of my problem, wanting to do something about it, understanding all aspects of withdrawals, researching the different ways to handle it, understanding the mind games that would go on in my head, etc.
Having a creative mind, I then came up with techniques that worked for me.
For example, I noticed what I call the "lag effect" when taking Vike. The danger I faced is that when I did not feel the Vike "taking hold" within 15 minutes after popping pills, I would take two more. What I discovered one day was that pills did not take effect until about 30 to 45 minutes from popping them.
On that discovery I exercised patience. I would take a pill then wait 30 to 45 minutes to see how I felt. Sure enough, the pills were working. So there was no need to take more pills 10 to 20 minutes after popping some earlier.
This was a significant discovery for me because last year I would have taken # 3 10/325 pills so I could be sure they would work, so to speak, or I would try to moderate, take # 2, then 15 minutes later take another # 2 because I was worried that the two taken 15 minutes earlier were not enough.
Another mistake I was making, losing track of how many pills I took, and when. Like many abusers I would say to myself "Gee, I took some pills at least four hours ago, so now it is PILL TIME!" I would then take two to three more pills. Turns out I was taking # 2 to # 3 pills every three hours! Sometimes the spread was less than two hours.
The way I fixed the "not keeping track" problem was to get a few of those seven-day pill minders sold at drug stores (a compartment for each day of the week). On one of them I wrote the hour intervals of when I could take a pill(s). In the other I counted out how many were allowed for each day. For each day I would transfer the pills from the day compartment into the hourly compartment.
The pill minders are used in place of your ex. (I have one friend, an ex GF) who is my best friend. She could be my "pill minder" and dole out pills, like your ex is doing. I think you are very fortunate to have that arrangement. I have not done similar because I have chosen to keep my addiction private. And of course, I am so disciplined that I know I'm capable of doing the self-taper.
Another thing I use is a diary/journal. I type all my feelings, keep track of intake, and describe every aspect of my experiences. The log on pill intake is really helpful because it is quite easy to forget when I have last taken pills. (The Satanic Vike Master really plays tricks on my mind. He is always whispering "Come on, you deserve a pill, you took a pill ten hours ago." When I check my log it turns out it was only three hours ago. So I tell my Satanic Vike Master to go fcuk himself.)
The diary is also motivational. By writing down my feelings I can recall events days later, where usually I would have forgotten what I was thinking at the time. It helps in setting goals, and being motivated to meet them.
At the end of each day when I write "Total Intake for Day # 5" I feel like I have accomplished something. (No, I don't reward myself with more pills :) I also find that the pill minders and diary cause me to create goals and to try meeting them.
Note: From what you have posted it sounds like you are quite capable of beating this. So if I were you I would be encouraged.
By the way, IMO making access inconvenient or difficult is a great way to stay on your taper schedule. Eventually you will learn that if you get # 5 pills for the day and take them all within 6 hours, that you will then have to suffer until getting tomorrows allotment. You are very lucky to have someone willing to help you get through this.
Note: Some of those who know the answer can respond, but from what I have read, YOUR level of addiction is low enough that a slow taper will work and you won't suffer much, if any, WD symptoms. The demon you are fighting appears to be the temptation to take pills because they make you feel all warm and fuzzy and can conquer the world.
All I can say to that is those days will end at some point, then you will take pills for the reasons we do, just to be able to minimally function in society and to stop WD discomfort, which of course are moronic reasons to be ingesting drugs.
So congrats to you, nipping this in the bud.
Quick note: What I have posted elsewhere: No two addicts are the same, no two withdrawal plans are the same.
IMO you cannot govern your withdrawal plan in the same manner as others have posted in here. We are all different: physically, mentally, socially, and financially.
For example, some in here suggest telling others about your addiction (or abuse), so you can get support. While that may work for them, your situation is different. If not revealing your "secret" is important to you, DON'T REVEAL TO ANYONE THAT YOU HAVE A DRUG ABUSE PROBLEM.
This is because no one on the Net can understand YOUR particular circumstance. No one knows how your friends, family, and loved ones would react to your revelation. Only you know that.
So in your case, keep tight lipped. Getting fired, people reacting hostile, or shunning you are common responses to finding out YOU "are a drug addict." Besides, most people are not qualified to actually help you beat an addiction. At best, people who care about you will simply say "that's OK, I still love you."
Moreover, I am sure you are aware of what I know. Once your "secret" is out, it spreads around like wildfire. After all, parents can't resist talking to best friends about their child's problem, people love having something to talk about, so they say "Don't tell anyone, but did you know that ____ is a DRUG ADDICT!" Then that person tells the next, and so on.
IMO you cannot govern your withdrawal plan in the same manner as others have posted in here. We are all different: physically, mentally, socially, and financially.
For example, some in here suggest telling others about your addiction (or abuse), so you can get support. While that may work for them, your situation is different. If not revealing your "secret" is important to you, DON'T REVEAL TO ANYONE THAT YOU HAVE A DRUG ABUSE PROBLEM.
This is because no one on the Net can understand YOUR particular circumstance. No one knows how your friends, family, and loved ones would react to your revelation. Only you know that.
So in your case, keep tight lipped. Getting fired, people reacting hostile, or shunning you are common responses to finding out YOU "are a drug addict." Besides, most people are not qualified to actually help you beat an addiction. At best, people who care about you will simply say "that's OK, I still love you."
Moreover, I am sure you are aware of what I know. Once your "secret" is out, it spreads around like wildfire. After all, parents can't resist talking to best friends about their child's problem, people love having something to talk about, so they say "Don't tell anyone, but did you know that ____ is a DRUG ADDICT!" Then that person tells the next, and so on.
You are very self disclipined to be able to taper alone. If I could I would and I tried but in a weak moment a would just go grab some. So u had to have someone hold on to them. I should have just said " a friend " instead of ex husband lol. I didn't even think that was an issue. Now I have more in my mind to worry about than before
Well it is nowhere near what it used to be but a 30 mg dose on an empty stomach still does a little bit.
I am ALMOST in the same situation as you, except that I have chosen NOT TO TELL A SOUL about my problem. (Instead, I hang around here for encouragement, conversation, and information.) I also have a technique for my slow taper, that I am self-administering. (I think I have it down, because over the past 21 days my intake has gone from # 12 10/325 Vikes daily down to a comfortable # 4 daily.
What's interesting also is that you are still getting a buzz from the pills. Most all people in here are way past the buzz stage (technically called "building up a tolerance). We abuse drugs simply to feel "normal" and to be able to function. The days of getting high, feeling great, being talkative, and having energy bursts are long gone.
In this regard you have an additional problem to deal with, taking drugs gives you pleasure, much the same as when people first start drinking they get drunk, become uninhibited, and have fun. You are basically where everyone was when we first started taking drugs, taking them for pain, but discovering that drugs were also FUN.
I am no expert, I can only tell you what I have experienced, studied, and echo information I have digested.
I'll make another post after I get a coffee.
What's interesting also is that you are still getting a buzz from the pills. Most all people in here are way past the buzz stage (technically called "building up a tolerance). We abuse drugs simply to feel "normal" and to be able to function. The days of getting high, feeling great, being talkative, and having energy bursts are long gone.
In this regard you have an additional problem to deal with, taking drugs gives you pleasure, much the same as when people first start drinking they get drunk, become uninhibited, and have fun. You are basically where everyone was when we first started taking drugs, taking them for pain, but discovering that drugs were also FUN.
I am no expert, I can only tell you what I have experienced, studied, and echo information I have digested.
I'll make another post after I get a coffee.
So I know it's probably not the best situation with the ex but I want to quit so bad and can't do it on my own. I am trying and felt like I was doing a good thing but now I feel like I am going about it wrong! But what else do I do when I can't go to my husband or any friends?
I have tried to talk to my husband. A about a month ago I told him I thought I had a problem. He blew up, thought I was crazy, not supportive. So I am sure he knows but I just don't think he would want to be a part of helping me taper and distributing them to me. He would feel like it is contributing to the cause. He is one that really thinks mental illnesses are a bunch of bull. We have only been married for about a year, our marriage is really really tough right now. I don't think our marriage could handle this. If he found out I would just have to explain that I had to have help and tried to tell him several times but I felt so ashamed when I would try and open up. I would tell him that I had no where else or no one to turn to! All I my closest friends are nurses that I work with and I don't want them to know. I don't want to tell my mom because I don't want to break her heart. I guess I have nothing to prove to my ex and don't care if he knows this problem. Basically I just need someone to hold on to them and hold me accountable. I already have to see him on a daily basis because he picks my son up for school so I have to go over there and get him. Right now it jut seems to be the best option. I will continue to feel my husband out, I want to so bad have his help. I am just not confident enough that he wouldn't blow up, tell my work, go to DhR. I know it sounds like I have no faith in him but like I said our marriage is so shakey right now
Hiya! If you CAN stick to thebtaper it will minimize your wd. However you will still have to deal with the emotions once you are done. And trying to deal with them on your own gets us back to using again. Yes, talk to your therapist. What you discuss there is confidential, so no, they can't report you. Besides, it is a disease, so you are protected under law with a health problem. I do have to agree with the ex/current hubby situation. I would blow a 0fuse if my partner was going to an ex before me about having this kind of problem. Please rethink this and enlist your hubbys support.
Definitely. Tapering is easier on the body, that's for sure. I just know from experience that some of us don't have that discipline (and I definitely didn't). But if it's a viable option, it should be considered. I think my only concern was how are you going to hide this support from your ex-husband with your current husband? I know you're scared, I get that. And yes, talking to your therapist is a great idea. They have to keep your sessions confidential.. except in cases where they think you are in imminent danger of either hurting yourself or someone else. But you can trust that relationship. So I definitely think that's a great idea.
But please think about opening up to your hubby. Why do you think he won't support you? He might already suspect you have a problem and is waiting for you to speak up first (?) - I thought I was hiding my problem from hubby but I was SO wrong about that - he knew. I mean, if the situation were the other way around, wouldn't YOU be there to help him? Of course you would. Which is why I think you should give him a chance. But again, no one could make that decision for you. Only you can do that. But please give it some consideration, okay?
Oh, and one other thing. There is NO shame in getting help. We tend to think that way before we quit... that people won't understand and that we're failures... or have failed at something in our lives. Only NOT getting help is what can cause us to fail. It's okay to need help. :)
But please think about opening up to your hubby. Why do you think he won't support you? He might already suspect you have a problem and is waiting for you to speak up first (?) - I thought I was hiding my problem from hubby but I was SO wrong about that - he knew. I mean, if the situation were the other way around, wouldn't YOU be there to help him? Of course you would. Which is why I think you should give him a chance. But again, no one could make that decision for you. Only you can do that. But please give it some consideration, okay?
Oh, and one other thing. There is NO shame in getting help. We tend to think that way before we quit... that people won't understand and that we're failures... or have failed at something in our lives. Only NOT getting help is what can cause us to fail. It's okay to need help. :)
And I tried cold turkey but I have 3 small children and can't take off work in the next few weeks because of a major audit. So right now I have to be at my peak. At least for 2 more weeks. So I thought maybe I could taper two weeks to get through this and then quit CT, come down with the "flu" and have my mom help out for a week or so?
Lol I agree about the ex husband thing. I just didn't have anyone else my current husband freaked out when he knew or thought I was taking them as prescribed for a week for a legit reason! My ex and I have a child together, we were not married long and have been friends or years after the divorce. So there are no feelings. But he is the only one that suspected my problem. I have generalized anxiety disorder and have a therapist. Maybe I should come clean to him? Would he have to report me to the board of nursing? I am a nurse but in my job I am not around pills, do not dispense them (thank god) I am a chart auditer for insurances. I changed to that job because I knew iI had a weakness and wouldn't ever want to jeopardize or take from a patient that was truly in pain!! So right now he is the only person I can trust with this. I can't tell anyone or they might feel they have to report me to the board :/
I agree with sweettooth. You do need to tell your secret. And please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm not sure your ex-husband is the right person to help you? I can't help but wonder how your current husband would feel about that. ?
But you CAN do this... the energy and balance will return, but you have to stop taking them. And now. And you can CT if you don't have any other health issues. It won't kill you. It will be uncomfortable for a while, but withdrawal IS temporary and there are a lot of home remedies to help you through that.
And toothfairie is right. You can't get clean and stay clean without aftercare. Perhaps you could find a good therapist to talk to? We use to cover up our issues, and without that coping mechanism (meaning the pills) it can be very hard to find a way to deal with our emotions after we quit. Which is why aftercare is so important.
But you CAN do this... the energy and balance will return, but you have to stop taking them. And now. And you can CT if you don't have any other health issues. It won't kill you. It will be uncomfortable for a while, but withdrawal IS temporary and there are a lot of home remedies to help you through that.
And toothfairie is right. You can't get clean and stay clean without aftercare. Perhaps you could find a good therapist to talk to? We use to cover up our issues, and without that coping mechanism (meaning the pills) it can be very hard to find a way to deal with our emotions after we quit. Which is why aftercare is so important.
oh and i'm 100 days clean today!! to answer your other question :) still new to recovery but i feel SO much better....almost back to normal...except for low energy sometimes.
Could you look into couseling?? it's private and no one would know....but it's part of aftercare to tell at least someone your secret...friends maybe some family member etc....everyone's aftercare can be diff...but most stay clean thru counseling/NA....and no one at my work knows either and some of my family does tho. I make meetings and counseling....but i live in a bigger city. It can be done if you want it bad enough...i know it's scary but it's nothing to be ashamed about....and i was taking 12 or so Norco a day for years....i tapered for 1 day and couldn't do it....so i just went CT...i'm 53 years old so it was tough for week or so then it gets so much better! we can help you get thru the WDs. Then you can worry about aftercare ok?? take one thing at a time.
I am still just so scared. I love the way they make me feel. I know I am going to go through a lot of depression and mental anguish. Does the cravings and day to day life get better?
I don't think I can go to meetings. I am trying to keep if hidden from family/friends. Could lose my job of anyone aware of problem. Do you think I can stay clean without them?
Hi and welcome!! we can't really give tapering advice on the forum but i've always read slow and steady...let your body adjust to the lower dose.etc.....congrats on wanting your life back! i was a long time norco abuser....and i had to go CT....i myself couldn't taper....if i had the pills i would take them....so glad you have a friend that is helping you and dispensing the pills! that is great....for the physical, check out the Thomas Recipe at bottom right of the page....just take from it what you need...Imodium is a must for sure.....ensure or boost when you can't eat etc....lots of water and gatorade....stay hydrated.....move around when you can, take short walks etc....you won't feel like it but it does help to feel better quicker. The mental part, aftercare like counseling and NA/AA meetings....therapy....i'm doing both and it's helping alot. Good luck and keep us posted! we can help you with symptoms as they come up....you are doing a great thing for you and your children! they deserve a healthy mom!
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