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Neurontin for Chronic Pain
I was curious about Neurontin. I have been told that this medicine is good for Chronic Pain. I know it is also for use with people that have seizures. Could someone tell me how Neurontin has helped or hurt them. I have been taking it at night 300mg small dose for sleep and Chronic Pain. I dont want to go to a higher dosage until I research more. My doctor says this is a good helpful medicine. I just want to get more input.
Thank you very much for your help. Shelly.
Thank you very much for your help. Shelly.
After my pain started following a car accident I was placed on Neurontin. I didn't notice any effect at all in my case, so I got off of it. I also wanted to know more so I did some research on the net (just put neurontin in any search engine you'll get lots of hits). It appears to work for pain by increasing your pain threshold. I don't recall any "bad" side effects listed. Also, Neurontin goes by the chemical name gaba pectin.
sorry to break in on this thread, but I could't post a new question. I ran out of my lortabs last night and I have been without all day. I feel like hell. I'm shaky, clammy,depressed and cranky. By the way, I too was given Neurontin and like Joe, I didn't notice any difference. My doctor gave it to me for nerve pain and he pointed out that it was "non addicting." I took one that night and never noticed anything. The pain was still there. I read about it on the internet and read that it was for seizers...so i stopped taking it. when i had my next appointment i mentioned that i read on the internet that it was for seizers and I had stopped taking it. I got a royal ass chewing from my doctor about using the internet to diagnose mysef. So he changed my doasage to 3 per day instead of just one at night. still I don't notice anything different. i also have some robaxin that don't me a bit of good either. The next few days will be hell for me. ok, thanks for listening.
lortab withdrawal -- been there, done that a million times. I empathize with your situation.
Valium or a valium class drug like Xanax can help you make it through the withdrawal. If you don't have access, Valerian Root extract from the health food store is very valium-like in its effect.
Take hot baths or jacuzzis for the muscle aches.
Take Immodium for the runs.
That's about all you can do, but this is the tried and true way to ease the withdrawal to a bearable level.
Take care. Post some more here if you want to talk.
Valium or a valium class drug like Xanax can help you make it through the withdrawal. If you don't have access, Valerian Root extract from the health food store is very valium-like in its effect.
Take hot baths or jacuzzis for the muscle aches.
Take Immodium for the runs.
That's about all you can do, but this is the tried and true way to ease the withdrawal to a bearable level.
Take care. Post some more here if you want to talk.
Hi Tom, thanks for responding....I was wondering what happened to everyone! Tom, I went back and read some old posts. I was trying to get everyones story straight. If you don't mind answering a couple questions for me?? First...if I read correctly you said you have been addicted for 30 years? And now you are taking darvon and are hoping that buprenorphine will be allowed in Calif soon? I, too am in Calif. You seem to be pretty up to date on all this...do you know how long before buprenorphine will be available here? I mean, is it a possibility or is it something in the real distant future? And about the darvon....is that the same as darvocet but without the acetemiphin (spelling??) And is it less addicting? I need to do something....and soon!!!!! I am off work right now....due to my health (mostly this damn addiction but no one but this board knows that) I need to get back to work soon and I just don't know how I'm going to do that. I'm scared to death. I cannot function without these pills. I still have refills...I can't get them till next Wednesday. This will be the longest 7 days of my life! Tom, any advice, any information, would be greatly appreciated. Is the darvon easier to withdraw from than lortab? What is the reason you are on darvon and not lortab anymore? I'm assuming that you were on lortab at one time because you said "been there done that" so how and why did you make the switch to darvon? I'm sorry to ask so many questions but I'm just trying to get a handle on this? Thanks for your help!
yes, Neurontin is for seizures, pain, anti-anxiety. It gives some tiredness but is a very usefull drug to control seizures. I am going back on it to control my seizures. The Klonopin is not enough.
Don't apologize for the questions. We all come here to communicate our plights and commiserate and offer whatever help to each other we have to give.
Yeah, 30 years and counting. I was in my late teens when I took my first opioid drug. In fact, that first one was the old Darvon Compound 65. They talk about genetic predispositions for addictions of one sort or the other. Well, up til then, I had been one of those high school kids who looked down on friends who were getting stoned, etc. I was even arrogant about "not needing any of that stuff." One night came, and, after reading a really very anti-drug story, for one reason or another, I took two Darvon and went to bed. When that stuff hit my brain, I was never the same again. I had what seemed to me to be a mystical, out of body experience. It was so intense that I of course did it again and again, etc. From that moment on, I was an opiate addict. It was almost like falling in love or having a religious conversion. I have never felt whole without opiates since. I have been through all the usual rehabs, programs, jails, etc. but it's as if to stop is to die for me. The fact that it started with Darvon is purely coincidental.
I use darvon 65 (the plain pink ones) because they are just propoxyphene without any Tylenol or asprin. But in the last thirty years, I have been on every rx opiate in the book, the stronger the better. I had a 10-year affair with hydrocodone (lortab, vicodin, etc.) which almost killed me. At one point, I was using 75 vicodin a day (seventy-five). I would process the stuff to remove the Tylenol, which is probably why I'm still alive.
I use darvon now for several reasons. It's actually quite a weak opioid as opioid drugs go. Ironically, it's chemically related to methadone. Unfortunately, it doesn't provide the same benefits of methadone maintenance. But I have a close relationship with a doctor, not a doc feel good, but a real doctor, and I have three bad disks in my back (with surgery a few years ago). Equipped with the bad-back documentation, my doctor finds it easy to provide me with as much Darvon as I want. I occasionally hit him up for Vicodin and OxyContin (boy, stay away from that one - it's WAY TOO good).
Like you, I have to work a demanding job. I have decided to get help which is not yet available in the form I want. You can get bup in California if you enter the right detox program. However, doctors may be able to prescribe it to treat opiate dependence in a private medical setting soon. That is what I want.
For a number of reasons, I cannot take a month off from the world and commit myself to an in-house detox where I could get the bup now. I also can't risk exposure in my profession, so I'm hanging in there for that private treatment legislation to go through. It may happen soon, it may not. The addiction pros I talk to don't even know the status of this legislation. If I had time, I might go out of state to get the bup, as several posters on this forum have done.
I stick with the Darvon, not because it imparts a particularly good opioid high, but because I find I can use it and still show up for work and participate in my family life - two things I wouldn't be doing if I were on lortabs or oxy's all the time. So, it's practical in a way.
As for addiction from it, I see no reason why it wouldn't be just as addicting as lortabs. It was, after all, the drug that started it all for me. Withdrawal from Darvon, believe it or not, I've found to be worse by far than withdrawal from lortabs. I would not steer you toward it for that reason. Darvon has just worked out to be my maintenance drug while I arrange a real recovery for myself. There is a theory that long-time users like me are now "endorphine challenged" and cannot produce the natural substances that the drugs imitate. If this is true, methadone maintenance my be my only real hope. Years before I ever heard the term endorphin challenged, I knew there was something missing in me when I was without the opiate or opioid drugs in my system. I truly perceive opiates as one would a life saving drug. I hope it's not the case, but I'll have to wait a little before finding out.
You know, after 7 days off the lortabs, you'll be pretty much over the worst of the detox. If you were serious about recovery you might think of seeking some kind of program then. Getting hooked up with therapy or an AA/NA program is a lot simpler if you're already detoxed.
As far as getting through the next seven days, well, I'd use the coping tips I left on the other post. Make sure you've got the imodium on hand at work if the runs set in. It's going to be hard getting through the day and even harder getting through the night. Remember the valium or Valerian Root and take all the hot baths you can stand at night for the muscle aches. They're really quite effective. You'll have no energy at work, either, but caffeine might get you through.
For you now, switching from a lortab to a darvon addiction wouldn't accomplish much. As I said, withdrawal from a heavy darvon habit sucks. The Darvocet would also contain the Tylenol that the lortab has, which would not improve the situation.
I'm sorry I don't have more info on the buprenorphine legislation. I'm in the dark like you. But I'm hopeful after some new methadone regulations take effect in March, making it easier for doctors to become authorized to dispense methadone, the bup law changes might be pushed forward a bit. Like I said, you can get the bup detox now in California but only in a full-fledged in-house drug treatment program and some university studies. I wish I had the freedom to take time off and go to a real detox unit to get started. But I can't get off the career merrygo 'round right now to make that possible. So, I maintain, try to find out what I can, and wait.
One thing you can do, look up the Matrix Center http://www.matrixcenter.com/researchers.html
You may be in a situation where they could help you with even buprenorphine right now. But we're talking programs and studies, so you have to have the time and some money to use them. But the Matrix Center is a good source for treatment program options and links to other sources.
I hope this answered your questions and you find the answer you seek. Take care.
Yeah, 30 years and counting. I was in my late teens when I took my first opioid drug. In fact, that first one was the old Darvon Compound 65. They talk about genetic predispositions for addictions of one sort or the other. Well, up til then, I had been one of those high school kids who looked down on friends who were getting stoned, etc. I was even arrogant about "not needing any of that stuff." One night came, and, after reading a really very anti-drug story, for one reason or another, I took two Darvon and went to bed. When that stuff hit my brain, I was never the same again. I had what seemed to me to be a mystical, out of body experience. It was so intense that I of course did it again and again, etc. From that moment on, I was an opiate addict. It was almost like falling in love or having a religious conversion. I have never felt whole without opiates since. I have been through all the usual rehabs, programs, jails, etc. but it's as if to stop is to die for me. The fact that it started with Darvon is purely coincidental.
I use darvon 65 (the plain pink ones) because they are just propoxyphene without any Tylenol or asprin. But in the last thirty years, I have been on every rx opiate in the book, the stronger the better. I had a 10-year affair with hydrocodone (lortab, vicodin, etc.) which almost killed me. At one point, I was using 75 vicodin a day (seventy-five). I would process the stuff to remove the Tylenol, which is probably why I'm still alive.
I use darvon now for several reasons. It's actually quite a weak opioid as opioid drugs go. Ironically, it's chemically related to methadone. Unfortunately, it doesn't provide the same benefits of methadone maintenance. But I have a close relationship with a doctor, not a doc feel good, but a real doctor, and I have three bad disks in my back (with surgery a few years ago). Equipped with the bad-back documentation, my doctor finds it easy to provide me with as much Darvon as I want. I occasionally hit him up for Vicodin and OxyContin (boy, stay away from that one - it's WAY TOO good).
Like you, I have to work a demanding job. I have decided to get help which is not yet available in the form I want. You can get bup in California if you enter the right detox program. However, doctors may be able to prescribe it to treat opiate dependence in a private medical setting soon. That is what I want.
For a number of reasons, I cannot take a month off from the world and commit myself to an in-house detox where I could get the bup now. I also can't risk exposure in my profession, so I'm hanging in there for that private treatment legislation to go through. It may happen soon, it may not. The addiction pros I talk to don't even know the status of this legislation. If I had time, I might go out of state to get the bup, as several posters on this forum have done.
I stick with the Darvon, not because it imparts a particularly good opioid high, but because I find I can use it and still show up for work and participate in my family life - two things I wouldn't be doing if I were on lortabs or oxy's all the time. So, it's practical in a way.
As for addiction from it, I see no reason why it wouldn't be just as addicting as lortabs. It was, after all, the drug that started it all for me. Withdrawal from Darvon, believe it or not, I've found to be worse by far than withdrawal from lortabs. I would not steer you toward it for that reason. Darvon has just worked out to be my maintenance drug while I arrange a real recovery for myself. There is a theory that long-time users like me are now "endorphine challenged" and cannot produce the natural substances that the drugs imitate. If this is true, methadone maintenance my be my only real hope. Years before I ever heard the term endorphin challenged, I knew there was something missing in me when I was without the opiate or opioid drugs in my system. I truly perceive opiates as one would a life saving drug. I hope it's not the case, but I'll have to wait a little before finding out.
You know, after 7 days off the lortabs, you'll be pretty much over the worst of the detox. If you were serious about recovery you might think of seeking some kind of program then. Getting hooked up with therapy or an AA/NA program is a lot simpler if you're already detoxed.
As far as getting through the next seven days, well, I'd use the coping tips I left on the other post. Make sure you've got the imodium on hand at work if the runs set in. It's going to be hard getting through the day and even harder getting through the night. Remember the valium or Valerian Root and take all the hot baths you can stand at night for the muscle aches. They're really quite effective. You'll have no energy at work, either, but caffeine might get you through.
For you now, switching from a lortab to a darvon addiction wouldn't accomplish much. As I said, withdrawal from a heavy darvon habit sucks. The Darvocet would also contain the Tylenol that the lortab has, which would not improve the situation.
I'm sorry I don't have more info on the buprenorphine legislation. I'm in the dark like you. But I'm hopeful after some new methadone regulations take effect in March, making it easier for doctors to become authorized to dispense methadone, the bup law changes might be pushed forward a bit. Like I said, you can get the bup detox now in California but only in a full-fledged in-house drug treatment program and some university studies. I wish I had the freedom to take time off and go to a real detox unit to get started. But I can't get off the career merrygo 'round right now to make that possible. So, I maintain, try to find out what I can, and wait.
One thing you can do, look up the Matrix Center http://www.matrixcenter.com/researchers.html
You may be in a situation where they could help you with even buprenorphine right now. But we're talking programs and studies, so you have to have the time and some money to use them. But the Matrix Center is a good source for treatment program options and links to other sources.
I hope this answered your questions and you find the answer you seek. Take care.
Well, Tom. Here I sit. 2:30 am and haven't slept a wink yet. ****! Thanks for the info. You'll never know how much of a relief it is to know I'm not the only one to get in this mess. You know, reading your post made me think back. I've been thinking this addiction started about 6 years ago...when I first "met" lortab. But I think that I was in trouble way before that. I can remember about 1976...I was a junior in high school and my mom was having "female problems" she came home from the doctor with a bottle of bright pink pills....yeh, you guessed it! Darvocet! I used to sneak into the kitchen cabinet where she kept them and pop 1 or 2. Then about 1979, right after I started my first job (which is where I still work) I had my wisdom teeth pulled and I came home with something like 12 percodans. To this day, I've never had those again...not for lack of trying, I might add. Then after I moved out my dad ended up with rheumatoid arthritis and his doctor gave hime tylenol 3's. And again, when I came to visit I would help myself. My poor dad was suffering and I was stealing his pain pills. Geeeeeze! Then about 1990 I got a prescription for Filornal (spelling??) with codeine. My doctor started me on 100 with a couple refills.And he kept giving me refills. I took those up until 1993 when good old Lortab came in the picture. So I guess my problem goes back farther than I had realized. I just don't remember suffering this way ever before. Maybe because I was taking them the right way back then?? "One every 4 to 6 hours as needed for pain." Now the only reason I even read the label is to do the math to see how quickly I can get those suckers refilled. What goes around comes around...now I'm the one with the rheumatoid arthritis...and I'd probably kill someone who came near my pain pills!!!! If I had any! Double ****. So you were up to 75 a day? Did you have a doctor prescibing that many or where you getting them another way? You mentioned jail time?? Did you try and call your own prescription in? The reason I guessed that is because a week or two ago you mentioned something about sitting in your bedroom and if you called in a prescription you could be on your way to jail but there was still no hope for buprenorphine right now.If I'm getting too nosy..just tell me. I guess I'm rambling but now it's 3:00 am and I'm still not going to be able to sleep. I guess tomorrow I'll head to a health food store for some Valerian root. As for now...I guess its back to Nick at Night. Wonderful. Thanks for your support and for answering my questions. I may go back through some more old posts and maybe I won't have to bug you with so many questions. I'm sure you've talked about all this before. Have you guys ever heard anymore from Brian?? When I first found this board about a year ago, he was very active in it. Then I read his post when his wife left and yours and Brighty's and everyone elses concern. But as far as I can see he hasn't showed back up?? Unless I missed it. Ok! Hopefully...good night!
I've been having some major pain issues as of late. Sciatica or pain in my legs and butt. The problem I am having is my doctor not understanding the nature of methadone maintenance. He prescribed hydrcoapap 10/500 mgm. )one q 4 hours. The problem is that 20mgms q 2-3 hours is the only thing that phases the nerve pain I am having. Very little back pain. Just major and horrible leg pain and leg weakness. Just when you think everything is fine in your life a major hurrdle get placed in your path! I quess that is what it's all about. Just keeping stuggling to make ends meet. I councel multiple felony drug offenders and have a huge case load. I was doing fine until this last setback. Words of encouragement needed friends! Anyone out there willing to councel a councelor? ? ~~
Anyways my doctor wants to talk to me about the amount of lortabs of I have been taking! Old story. Present tense. I will try to education him about MMT. I shouldn't have to do this. The medical profession DOES not get positive education in regards to treating pain problems period! Well, I will see what my doctor is made of today. He claims he is a christian. Well today I will test his compassion and understanding of medicine and people. The problem is their is only a handfull of doctors worldwide who understand MMT truley. I will bring Dr. J Thomas Paytes dear doctor letter for my defense. And some other education tools. My doctor should pay me for the info I will provide him today at his office. But I will get charged the regular 75.00 for the visit and 25.00 for the depo medrol injection.. With any luck I will get some adequate medicine to treat my pain issues. I am not looking for a high people -- just some medicine to treat my pain. If it is low dose of a stong opiate,than so be it. As an addict I will have to keep my eyes open to the ever lurking disease that I keep in remmission with the help of MMT and 12-step programs. Wish me luck and say a few prayers. My Best to YOU all! >>"doc" Dan..
Anyways my doctor wants to talk to me about the amount of lortabs of I have been taking! Old story. Present tense. I will try to education him about MMT. I shouldn't have to do this. The medical profession DOES not get positive education in regards to treating pain problems period! Well, I will see what my doctor is made of today. He claims he is a christian. Well today I will test his compassion and understanding of medicine and people. The problem is their is only a handfull of doctors worldwide who understand MMT truley. I will bring Dr. J Thomas Paytes dear doctor letter for my defense. And some other education tools. My doctor should pay me for the info I will provide him today at his office. But I will get charged the regular 75.00 for the visit and 25.00 for the depo medrol injection.. With any luck I will get some adequate medicine to treat my pain issues. I am not looking for a high people -- just some medicine to treat my pain. If it is low dose of a stong opiate,than so be it. As an addict I will have to keep my eyes open to the ever lurking disease that I keep in remmission with the help of MMT and 12-step programs. Wish me luck and say a few prayers. My Best to YOU all! >>"doc" Dan..
Hello and Gods hope to all of you on this Forum. I have read on maney of the other forums and found them to be very cynical and cruel in reply to most of the questions. This Forum is by far the warmest and most compassionate. I have been reading here for months but have not placed an entry. I have been trying to stop taking Norco 10/325 for about 3 months now. This will be my third attempt cold turky and iam am begining to worry. Iam up to 4-5 aday, always starting around 6pm.I do them for the comforting feeling they give me. I am precsribed 60 amonth for pain in lower back but I take them only for the high. No excuces no blame but to myself. I know this question probabley sounds redundent as to this forum but I would GREATLY appreciate any kind help.Is 4-5 Norco a night concidered a high dosage or habit? Will my withdrawal be severe,moterate ect? Can I stop this on my own(prefered)? I have never had any addictions before Though I drank and took recreation drugs; but this has me scared! I cant seem to put it down. My thoughts and prayers go out to all of you as I read on this wonderful sight. No one knows the frustration of addiction unless they have been there. Iam sorry to say I know! Thank you all. Shane
Hello and Gods hope to all of you on this Forum. I have read on maney of the other forums and found them to be very cynical and cruel in reply to most of the questions. This Forum is by far the warmest and most compassionate. I have been reading here for months but have not placed an entry. I have been trying to stop taking Norco 10/325 for about 3 months now. This will be my third attempt cold turky and iam am begining to worry. Iam up to 4-5 aday, always starting around 6pm.I do them for the comforting feeling they give me. I am precsribed 60 amonth for pain in lower back but I take them only for the high. No excuces no blame but to myself. I know this question probabley sounds redundent as to this forum but I would GREATLY appreciate any kind help.Is 4-5 Norco a night concidered a high dosage or habit? Will my withdrawal be severe,moterate ect? Can I stop this on my own(prefered)? I have never had any addictions before Though I drank and took recreation drugs; but this has me scared! I cant seem to put it down. My thoughts and prayers go out to all of you as I read on this wonderful sight. No one knows the frustration of addiction unless they have been there. Iam sorry to say I know! Thank you all. Shane
Hello and Gods hope to all of you on this Forum. I have read on maney of the other forums and found them to be very cynical and cruel in reply to most of the questions. This Forum is by far the warmest and most compassionate. I have been reading here for months but have not placed an entry. I have been trying to stop taking Norco 10/325 for about 3 months now. This will be my third attempt cold turky and iam am begining to worry. Iam up to 4-5 aday, always starting around 6pm.I do them for the comforting feeling they give me. I am precsribed 60 amonth for pain in lower back but I take them only for the high. No excuces no blame but to myself. I know this question probabley sounds redundent as to this forum but I would GREATLY appreciate any kind help.Is 4-5 Norco a night concidered a high dosage or habit? Will my withdrawal be severe,moterate ect? Can I stop this on my own(prefered)? I have never had any addictions before Though I drank and took recreation drugs; but this has me scared! I cant seem to put it down. My thoughts and prayers go out to all of you as I read on this wonderful sight. No one knows the frustration of addiction unless they have been there. Iam sorry to say I know! Thank you all. Shane
Hi Shelly. Sorry that your thread got hijacked...it's just so hard to post a new question! Anyway...I too was given Neurotin. I was having tingling and then a bad burning sensation in my leg. I mentioned it to my rheumatoligist and he gave me a bottle of neurotin to try. It was a bottle he had there in his office..someone had returned it because they didn't like it. Said it knocked them out. Well, I tried it that night and nothing. Couldn't even tell I even took anything. SO my dosage was increased to 3 pills a day. Still nothing. It doesn't make me sleepy and it doesn't seem to help the pain. So thats all I know about it. Not much help, I guess. Take care.
Dan! How did they dr. appointment go???? I'm curious. Been following your posts. Hope you got through to the doctor! Let us know!!
Dan! How did they dr. appointment go???? I'm curious. Been following your posts. Hope you got through to the doctor! Let us know!!
hello, my friend. Sorry to hear of your plight. I just finished re-reading Dr Paytes dear doctor letter. It should function like a litmus test for you, in the sense that your treating physician's reaction to it will probably tell you whether it's worth persevering with him at all. If he's like a lot of the docs referred to in Dr. Paytes letter, his mind is simply closed for good which makes him a dead end for you. Do you have the ability to get a referral by Dr Paytes to a doctor who is educated about MMT? It sounds like you're paying cash to this doc. Why not pay that same cash to a different doctor? Wouldn't NAMA be able to help with a referral? You certainly aren't the first MMT patient to find himself in this predicament. Surely someone before you has had to solve this problem and probably has.
Tell me, are you looking for an increased dose of hydro or something stronger like OxyContin? It seems to me, you'll have to detox off one short-actor when you feel better, so why not detox off oxy? Surely it can't make that big a difference. I always found Vicodin to be limited in its analgesic power, anyway.
I say, if you can, dump this doc if he doesn't "get it" and get a referral through your MMT network to someone who does.
I don't suppose temporarily increasing your methadone dose would help(?)
I face this problem from time to time and always have to find someone to supplement my legit, say, dentist's Vic script. It's almost funny to be handed a 1 q4 h of vics, the dentist telling me to be "very careful about these. They're very powerful" while I'm thinking about how I could literally take 7 or 8 of them at a pop and not be phased.
Does this doc already know about the MMT, or is receiving Dr Paytes letter the first time he's going to be hearing about your disease? His reaction should tell all, in any event.
I feel for you. I've certainly been in your kind of pain a number of times. You may have to call on your old junkie skills for wheedling more drugs out of this guy than he realizes he's giving you. However, from what you say, he's a hard nose. You might have to accept him as a lost cause and seek an MMT-educated referral from your MMT community. I refuse to believe they couldn't or wouldn't help you.
Is this expected to be a short term pain thing or are you in for a long haul with this ailment? I'd be more ruthless about dropping the doc if he can't or won't understand. As much as we respect them, doctors are deliverers of a service. If one fails to deliver satisfactory service, get another one. If your plumber does a lousy job on your pipes you don't hesitate to call another, do you?
I say reach out to your network. They've got to have an answer. Of course, you know I will always be here to talk. You may be in for some suffering, my friend. I just hope it isn't a chronic thing. That changes the picture significantly.
I know it helps to share your pain with your 12-step brothers and sisters. I don't have to tell you that there is healing power in those circles.
Stay in touch. Let us know what happens after you give him the "dear doctor" letter. Like I said, it's a litmus test. If he fails it, drop that guy!
I also know that your spiritual side can help in these times. That serenity prayer has gotten me through some pretty rough stuff. I'm here for you, brother. Keep in touch. Go with god.
your friend,
tom
Tell me, are you looking for an increased dose of hydro or something stronger like OxyContin? It seems to me, you'll have to detox off one short-actor when you feel better, so why not detox off oxy? Surely it can't make that big a difference. I always found Vicodin to be limited in its analgesic power, anyway.
I say, if you can, dump this doc if he doesn't "get it" and get a referral through your MMT network to someone who does.
I don't suppose temporarily increasing your methadone dose would help(?)
I face this problem from time to time and always have to find someone to supplement my legit, say, dentist's Vic script. It's almost funny to be handed a 1 q4 h of vics, the dentist telling me to be "very careful about these. They're very powerful" while I'm thinking about how I could literally take 7 or 8 of them at a pop and not be phased.
Does this doc already know about the MMT, or is receiving Dr Paytes letter the first time he's going to be hearing about your disease? His reaction should tell all, in any event.
I feel for you. I've certainly been in your kind of pain a number of times. You may have to call on your old junkie skills for wheedling more drugs out of this guy than he realizes he's giving you. However, from what you say, he's a hard nose. You might have to accept him as a lost cause and seek an MMT-educated referral from your MMT community. I refuse to believe they couldn't or wouldn't help you.
Is this expected to be a short term pain thing or are you in for a long haul with this ailment? I'd be more ruthless about dropping the doc if he can't or won't understand. As much as we respect them, doctors are deliverers of a service. If one fails to deliver satisfactory service, get another one. If your plumber does a lousy job on your pipes you don't hesitate to call another, do you?
I say reach out to your network. They've got to have an answer. Of course, you know I will always be here to talk. You may be in for some suffering, my friend. I just hope it isn't a chronic thing. That changes the picture significantly.
I know it helps to share your pain with your 12-step brothers and sisters. I don't have to tell you that there is healing power in those circles.
Stay in touch. Let us know what happens after you give him the "dear doctor" letter. Like I said, it's a litmus test. If he fails it, drop that guy!
I also know that your spiritual side can help in these times. That serenity prayer has gotten me through some pretty rough stuff. I'm here for you, brother. Keep in touch. Go with god.
your friend,
tom
you guessed it with the jail thing. I actually spent 10 years impersonating doctors, prescribing to ficticious people and then, shudder, walk in and pick them up. I was good at it. I phoned around 3 per week for 10 years. Got caught 3 times. The last was in 1994, and I was sentenced to a 90 day house arrest rehab, which was exactly what I needed. I had come to believe that nothing on earth could make me stop and i would just keep using til I died. I learned a lot through the 90 meetings in 90 days experience, but as you can see, didn't stick it out long after I got out. That is one reason why I think i may need to go the methadone maintenance route. I think 30 yearsof this has put me beyond the cope of conventional rehab and recovery. Ifthat's whatI wind up doing, fine with me. You cannot escape your fate.
Yeah, I'd say from your hitory that you are pre-disposed to opiate use. Opiates, whatever they may be, mimic endorphins which the brain accepts as endorphins. Opiates have a very specific and unique action in the brain, which makes opiate addiction distinct from other addictions. I found people into opiates are interested in nothing else. It's a dubious honor to belong to "the club."
We haven't heard from Brian in a while and just hope he's in a good rehab somewhere and will not lose his medical license (I'm sure you picked up on the fact that Brian is a doctor). He made caring friends of many of us and we still watch the threads hoping to hear some news. Such is the life of the junkie.
At least, on thi site, I have a place to go where i can truly be myself and share my life with people who understand -- the only people who could. Stay in touch. Take care.
Yeah, I'd say from your hitory that you are pre-disposed to opiate use. Opiates, whatever they may be, mimic endorphins which the brain accepts as endorphins. Opiates have a very specific and unique action in the brain, which makes opiate addiction distinct from other addictions. I found people into opiates are interested in nothing else. It's a dubious honor to belong to "the club."
We haven't heard from Brian in a while and just hope he's in a good rehab somewhere and will not lose his medical license (I'm sure you picked up on the fact that Brian is a doctor). He made caring friends of many of us and we still watch the threads hoping to hear some news. Such is the life of the junkie.
At least, on thi site, I have a place to go where i can truly be myself and share my life with people who understand -- the only people who could. Stay in touch. Take care.
I appoligise for breaking the thread on this page. I didnt really know how the question and reply format worked.I am impulsive, and didnt mean to offend.Anyway I was watching a Clint Eastwood movie last night,(Unforgiven)and a young cowboy was feeling bad about killing a man.In response Clint Eastwood said;"ITs a hell of thing killin a man,you take away everything hes got,and everything hes ever gonna have. Same could be said for drug addiction huh! Sincerlly Shane
I take neurontin for my bi-polar disorder. I take 600mg's twice a day. It controls my mania and is very succesful. I heard it was supposed to help migraines too, but i still get them all the time so I'd say that it isn't a very good pain killer.
great movie, but I disagree with you're analogy. A bullet is final. With us drug addicts, there is always a path to redemption. Walking it is tough, but it's there, shane. The sun also rises.
I'm worried about you, man. Stay in touch. Talk it out. I'll check for your post before I turn in tonight.
Thanks Bozz, I appreciate you taking the time to tell me your experience.
Shelly
Shelly
Thanx for the concern Tom. But my doctor came through with some adequate pain medicine. I produced the dear doctor letter and he seemed to understand MMT a little better. He seemed to understand it was just high tolerances that he is dealing with. He still expressed his concerns in prescribing a high dose of a narcotic. He asked what will I do if I become addicted again. I explained that my methadone dose does not allow me to get high on the drug. My dose of methadone will stop withdrawals and cravings. It will only provide pain releif. The DR. will only provide two weeks of pain management, and then if I am not better I will have to see a neurolgist. I quess I am fine with this. Of course when I got the medicine I tested it. Sure enough-no high. I am happy about this because a high would have made my disease present again. I got some pain relief yesterday,but do not intend to try that dose again because I feel drained today. I tested my methadone and it still works. Thank my higher power! Well,I bet you all are wondering what medicine he prescribed.
He said that he will not prescribe any schedule two opiates. I am fine with that. I told him I did not want Oxycontin right off the bat! I will suffer before I take that life ruiner! We discussed tylenol containing drugs and we both agreed that tylenol is not good for the liver and should not be in a medicine that is to be taken regularly. A liquid containing 5mgm's of hydrocodone and 100mgms quaifenisen per teaspoon. NO tylenol. Four teaspoonsful(20mg) q six hours. Thirty mgm's works better. But I will settle with 20mgm's. Our doctors are concerned with what the DEA thinks,I am sure. Six teaspoonfuls or one ounce q six hours would have definitely red flagged that RX. This is a shame, but that is the way it is, whether we like it or not! What I just mentioned is an entirely different issue which I do not have time to discuss here my friends! So far so good! No high just a little pain relief! Well people things worked out for me so far. I am lucky I have a caring and understanding doctor. The pain relief starts running out after 3-4 hours but I can handle it until the next dose. Bye for now and best wishes to all!
Your Friend,
Dan..
ps: I did not have time to proof my post so xcuse any mistakes in grammar or spelling. Dan..
He said that he will not prescribe any schedule two opiates. I am fine with that. I told him I did not want Oxycontin right off the bat! I will suffer before I take that life ruiner! We discussed tylenol containing drugs and we both agreed that tylenol is not good for the liver and should not be in a medicine that is to be taken regularly. A liquid containing 5mgm's of hydrocodone and 100mgms quaifenisen per teaspoon. NO tylenol. Four teaspoonsful(20mg) q six hours. Thirty mgm's works better. But I will settle with 20mgm's. Our doctors are concerned with what the DEA thinks,I am sure. Six teaspoonfuls or one ounce q six hours would have definitely red flagged that RX. This is a shame, but that is the way it is, whether we like it or not! What I just mentioned is an entirely different issue which I do not have time to discuss here my friends! So far so good! No high just a little pain relief! Well people things worked out for me so far. I am lucky I have a caring and understanding doctor. The pain relief starts running out after 3-4 hours but I can handle it until the next dose. Bye for now and best wishes to all!
Your Friend,
Dan..
ps: I did not have time to proof my post so xcuse any mistakes in grammar or spelling. Dan..
Hello Tom, Yes I guess the Unforgiven quote was a bit Fatalistic. Theres always hope.Again I appologise for the intrusion but I am very concerned about my problem with Norco and have No one to relate to. I want to stop and cant tell my wife,she would be so hurt.I needed to know how deep I was in from someone who has been through it.It would help greatly if I knew what lay ahead of me. Anyway thanks again. Shane
Shane, allow me to tell you what lies ahead. I don't need to know anything more about you to predict this.
You're tolerance for the hydrocodone will rapidly increase. You'll start doubling up on doses. You'll use whatever stories or ploys you can think of to increase the amount the doc gives you or get refills early (I'm working out of state for my company and won't be here when I would normally refill my pills. Therefore, please give me my refill now. -- that one works on some pharmacists but not on others. Only try it with a private mom and pop pharmacy. They are under a lot less scrutiny than, say, Walgreens pharmacists, and, frankly, need all the sales they can get to stay in business).
Anyway, Shane, the idea is escalation. You'll need more, more often. If exaggerating your condition to your doctor doesn't convince him to increase the amount prescribed, you'll start thumbing through the yellow pages for the Walk-ins. You'll go to a few of those and initially succeed in getting more drugs. But that has a short half-life. Most walk-ins assume you're going to go back to your regular doctor for refills and consequently won't give you many refills, if any.
I fully identify with your situation as far as not being able to tell your wife. You're from a normal, upstanding family that you believe won't accept or understand your using drugs like this. You're worried that you'll lose they're respect and love.
I know about this. For many years, I kept it all secret from my family, convincing them (and the docs) that I just had a hell of a lot of pain. They'd shake their heads in sympathy - "Oh, how is poor Tom doing with those terrible headaches? I wish I knew how to help him. But I guess his doctor knows what he's doing."
The point is, you're "secret" will come spilling out one day when you're caught double-doctoring by a pharmacy or by your medical insurance (or your wife reading rx labels). If you're story gets as bad as mine, you're whole family will find out about your habit when you're led away in handcuffs for rx forgery. Everyone will be shocked. "Normies," that is, people who by some stroke of luck just don't have addictive personalities, simply won't have anything in their personal history to help them understand what you're doing, why you can't "just stop."
As AA teaches (expect to be attending some meetings soon), secrecy keeps the disease alive. It allows it to progress until you do something so blatant that everyone finds out. Take are.
Later, you'll discover that more people "knew" than you might ever have thought.
I guess I don't have to tell you that you won't defeat this problem by yourself. At some point, you'll have to ask for medical help. Just do it before you find yourself in handcuffs somewhere. It can all happen -- and will. Take care.
You're tolerance for the hydrocodone will rapidly increase. You'll start doubling up on doses. You'll use whatever stories or ploys you can think of to increase the amount the doc gives you or get refills early (I'm working out of state for my company and won't be here when I would normally refill my pills. Therefore, please give me my refill now. -- that one works on some pharmacists but not on others. Only try it with a private mom and pop pharmacy. They are under a lot less scrutiny than, say, Walgreens pharmacists, and, frankly, need all the sales they can get to stay in business).
Anyway, Shane, the idea is escalation. You'll need more, more often. If exaggerating your condition to your doctor doesn't convince him to increase the amount prescribed, you'll start thumbing through the yellow pages for the Walk-ins. You'll go to a few of those and initially succeed in getting more drugs. But that has a short half-life. Most walk-ins assume you're going to go back to your regular doctor for refills and consequently won't give you many refills, if any.
I fully identify with your situation as far as not being able to tell your wife. You're from a normal, upstanding family that you believe won't accept or understand your using drugs like this. You're worried that you'll lose they're respect and love.
I know about this. For many years, I kept it all secret from my family, convincing them (and the docs) that I just had a hell of a lot of pain. They'd shake their heads in sympathy - "Oh, how is poor Tom doing with those terrible headaches? I wish I knew how to help him. But I guess his doctor knows what he's doing."
The point is, you're "secret" will come spilling out one day when you're caught double-doctoring by a pharmacy or by your medical insurance (or your wife reading rx labels). If you're story gets as bad as mine, you're whole family will find out about your habit when you're led away in handcuffs for rx forgery. Everyone will be shocked. "Normies," that is, people who by some stroke of luck just don't have addictive personalities, simply won't have anything in their personal history to help them understand what you're doing, why you can't "just stop."
As AA teaches (expect to be attending some meetings soon), secrecy keeps the disease alive. It allows it to progress until you do something so blatant that everyone finds out. Take are.
Later, you'll discover that more people "knew" than you might ever have thought.
I guess I don't have to tell you that you won't defeat this problem by yourself. At some point, you'll have to ask for medical help. Just do it before you find yourself in handcuffs somewhere. It can all happen -- and will. Take care.
Tom,thanks for your reply.I think your analogy is probably very accurate. I know I need to stop. I tried and failed and this time I would like to make it. I wont bother you you again but could help me with this. If I am Taking 4 to five 10/325 Norco every evening ,how difficut will the withdrawal be? Am I very far into it at that amount? THank very much. Shane
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