OPEN THREAD

just wanted to see how everyone was doing, I don't feel like working? anyone from the Boston area?

[percsnomas]

Doing great... sorry to read that bullshit about baygirl/rj..
Don't feel like workin either up here north of 49.
Bruins Rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OxyDout]

north of 49? don't know where that is, and yes the bruins rule!

[percsnomas]

north of the 49th parallel aka Canada(Calgary)
...been a die-hard Bruin fan since I was 4(now 40)
shook bobby orr's hand back in like 71 or 72...seemed like yesterday(not)

[OxyDout]

haha, bobby O. thats awesome, your a lucky guy. I have seen your name on many posts, whats your story?

[percsnomas]

..couple back surgeries(last one in Dec);5 deaths, incl my mother unexpectedly and one of my better friends murdered(January and March respectively); and way too many percocets over the last 3-4 years....just said enough on Aug.7th, then tapered to zero in just over a week(from about 60-90mgs), and been clean and f@#kin happy ever since...........

[OxyDout]

so it was just percs, any oxy? or no.... I'm so sorry to hear about the passing of your family/friends, its awful, I lost 1 great friend, thats tough enough, i can't even imagine what you are going through.

[percsnomas]

...I think one of my other good friends put it best: "life will never be the same, but it keeps trudging along"  The important thing is we grieve, cope and try to move on..... it sure crystallizes what really is important(family,friends,etc).
I'm sorry for your loss also....................

I loved your 13 year-old Volvo analogy(your dads')??

[percsnomas]

oops, yes it was just Oxycodone 5mg tabs

[OxyDout]

yea, me to, but unfortunately I still go for a ride once in a while..............

[percsnomas]

that's why "we're" here, to help put that beast to rest!!!

[OxyDout]

yea, I have been doing incredibly well, I used to be on 200mg a day of oxycontin, now I might take something on a weekend, but its that god awful habit that will lead me right to hell............

[alexandra_r]

GWH--

I live in Boston about 1/2 of the time.  My husband's business is located on both coasts, so we go back and forth constantly.  We just bought and moved into a new house here in the Boston area.  About 30 miles from the city in a lovely little town called Milford.  We are out in the country which is kind of a shock to my city-girl system.

We are going to the Red Sox tonight at Fenway.  I just love the Sox, but love the Oakland A's too.  But Boston fans are the best.

[percsnomas]

I know what you mean...this has to be tackled so diligently 24/7.
Man, have you come a long way(from 200mg/d)....
....it's overused but it so applies to me; that one is too many and a thousand(ten) is not enough..

[OxyDout]

percs, yes, you couldn't be any more right, it sucks, I hate it, but hey, atleast Im doing incredibly well compared to a year ago.

Alex, ive been a huge sox fan all my life, and every year they just let me down, it sucks.  do you mind me asking what your husband does?  Milford is very nice, so aren't the surrounding towns, holliston, Medway, I like the extra land........

[alexandra_r]

My husband's company makes semiconductors for stereos, amplifiers, and just about every other type of audio equipment you can think of.  Probably some of his company's components are in your stereo, VCR, DVD and television.  There company is based in MA, but the fab where they make the semiconductors is in the Bay Area.  So, we go back and forth--usually 2 weeks here and 2 weeks there.  We'll probably spend more time here now, though, because we just bought this great new house (it's the biggest place I've ever lived!--I'm a city girl and grew up in small apartments).  I love it here and I love SF.  I like going back and forth.  I teach classes for a university all online, so I take my work with me where I go.  

About the Sox--my husband feels as you do.  He has season tickets and every year, he gets his hopes up high and then they let him down.  He says it's always after the all-star game.  I am not that jaded yet, I still have faith in the sox.  I know that one of these years they are going all the way . . .

It is also in my nature to root for the underdog.

[OxyDout]

too funny, the sox....... they just can't do it, I don't know why, but they can't, god its awful.  Semiconductors, there are a few companys locally that manufacture/distribute semiconductors. The house sounds great, any kids? that class sounds great, my college was all about being online, by my senior year (2001) we also attended class via video confrencing (sp).... that looks completely wrong. Anyway, how long have you been sober, or are you still fighting?

[Natasha1]

I have been busy and back on the vics. Oh well. I feel bad, but I am under so much stress. I didnt run to a vic today. I ran to a valium. I'm starting all over.

My best friend had surgery on her hand on Tuesday. Prior to that her doc wouldnt give her any pain pills so I would give her one or two every now and then, vics. So now her doc put her on 7.5/325? Lortabs. They look just like 5/500 vics but they have little blue specs in them. What's the differeance between them? Her doc also gave her a couple of oxy's (10). She offered and I SAID NO :-) to both. I have never taken them and everything that I have read here leads me to beleive that it wouldnt be a good idea to start on those too. When I started to cut back on the vic's before and I was getting mild W/D's she felt so bad because I had given her some of my pills and now she wants to repay me. I told her if I needed them like me vomitting and the works that I would take one from her, but that she needs to concentrate on her pain. She is such a good friend.

[alexandra_r]

I really feel that I have things under control, gwh.  In the past 6 weeks, I took vicodin only one weekend--it was the weekend we moved into our new house and my back was so screwed up.  Coming to this site keeps me on track.  I think I will probably continue to use medication when my back is really bad.  Usually, I control the pain with motrin, yoga and meditation, but sometimes it's just too bad and I can't handle it.

I don't have any kids =(   I'm trying to have a baby now.  Perhaps I would have earlier, but my life was really screwed up for a long time, and then my 1st husband died of an OD when I was 28.  I stayed single for a long time, but met my beloved husband about 3 and a half years ago.  We got married this summer.  He's the most wonderful man I have ever known--no one has ever treated me so well.  We want to have a baby, but no luck yet.  I am looking into adoption, but I don't think I can because I have arrests for prostitution and drugs from when I was a junkie.  *sigh*  Most of the time, I feel my past is where it should be--in the past, but people will still judge you when they look at your life (and you can't really blame them when it's about kids).  Who knows, though--I have a lot of faith.  My husband would make such a good dad--he loves kids and so do I.  I'm a wonderful Aunt, though--I dote on all my little nieces and nephews.

[Nod]

Oxycodone vs. Hydrocodone
I abused hydro for 2-3 yrs very badly, been clean now almost 6mos.  Recently "re-tried" hydro few weekends ago and my tolerance is about the same.  Feel like **** for falling off the wagon but I got right back on it, thank God.  Anyway, I have to have major shoulder surgery soon and am worried about 1) not being able to have pain relief and 2) falling off the wagon.

Question that maybe someone knows: If I abused hydro and have built up such a tolerance. Would oxycodone give me pain relief or would the hydro tolerance also cover the oxycodone as well?  Just how much in common are these 2 drugs?  I'm hoping that maybe oxycodone for a few days will give me the pain relief.. or will my recent past abuse of hydro come back to haunt me?  The ortho surgeon said percocet for few days will be all I need.

Appreciate any input.   Nod.

[Synderella]

Sean,


Yes, my doctor was prescribing them, but I was forging refills.  She would prescribe me 90

[bmac]

I used phenobarb and clonidine for about 8 full days.It will keep that clawling feel away.And the two will get you thru the
bad withdrawing.Good luck and keep posting.I know you can do it if I did.
                              bmac

[student7]

i am curently a student in high school and i just wanted to say thank you all for giving me information to complete an assignment. also i wish you (and the red sox) luck. also my grandmother is an alcoholic. well good luck and good bye.

[maddogmmm]

Owner of the bruins belongs to my golf club---Very nice chap--,But do you really think they have what it takes to win The Cup I really don't see it happening. Go Bills!! Hope everyone is well and have a great weekend.---Michael

[Sean5110]

Congratulations on following through with your doctor. I know that it brings almost a freshness to the soul, like opening the shades and windows and letting good air in when we take those steps towards integrity. I was forging scripts exclusively (after my internet scripts ran out). I don't have any relationship with any doctor at all. In fact, my insurance just kicked in a couple of days ago since I recently started with a new firm. I had refills left on a script that I recently forged and I knew that I just wouldn't go through a tapering process with those linguering out there. My D-day for tapering begins early next week (I created a schedule based on some of the posts I've seen here and when I have the exact amount of doses left, I hope to God I will go through with it). I am painfully aware that I may be BS-ing myself, but I don't think so. I am not going to forge again. It makes me sick to think that I have risked my family's security for the sake of wanting to shake borerdom and synthetically rise above the monontony of day-to-day living.

My wife has sensed that something in me has died over the past months and I see revulsion when I look into her eyes. She's not quite sure why I repulse her. It confuses her but she chalks it up to a funky season on the marital road (like we've legitimately had here and there over the past nine years). Our children are the salvation of our marriage. Splitting is simply not an option. But if she had even a hint of the monster I've been over the past months....

I may contact a new physician next week to spill the truth. It will depend on the level of discomfort I feel as I taper. As I've said in previous posts, I can't take time off work. You are definitely doing the right thing taking a leave. Don't be over-anxious about withdrawal. Being sick is a complete drag but the worst is over usually within 72 hours and after that there's usually day-to-day progress in making way towards "normalcy". For any addiction I've shaken in the past (heroine and cigarettes specifically, and the hydro once), it takes approx. 3 weeks to emerge as a "new creation", so to speak. That is, it takes that amount of time to really shake all the physical and much of the mental remnants of the addiction. God is very good in his provision of the gift of time. Doing the right thing consistently over time is the difference between life and hell.

Good luck and I will try to remember to lift up your plight in prayer here and there.

Sean
(***@****)

[Bondy]

I came clean way more comfortably than I thought i would by combining the clonidine with 4gms of L-tyrosine and 200mgs of vit B6.
I was skeptical when I tried it but there are valid scientific reasons to think it works...in short, opiates over-stimulate a part of your brain called the locus ceruleus that makes a form of adrenaline. In the rat brain sudden cessation of opiate administration causes the adrenaline factory to only produce 30% of the 'adrenaline'. Clonidine kicks this manufacturing capability up to about 60%.  L-tyrosine is the raw material of which the adrenaline is made, so flooding the factory with raw material at a time that factory is starting to rev up ends up producing all the adrenaline you need and, at least in my case, withdrawal symptoms were totally eliminated except for the runs.

Take the clonidine, then as soon as your mouth feels dry take 4000mgs of the L-tyrosine (as long as you are not on an MAOI ie. Nardil or Parnate) + 200 mgs of vit B6 on an empty stomach.
Do this twice a day. Please take the phenobarb as well.
The big question that I cant answer is how long you have to take the clonidine/tyrosine. I am guessing a week or 2.
I have been clean for 3 days with this and actually feel very well.
(This is part of what they call the Thomas Recipe...but I am convinced that the only important ingredients are the tyrosine, clonidine and probably the B6.

Good luck ,
   Serge.

[Chezz]

I am in the same predicament that you both are in. Or the same as we ALL are here. I can relate a little more to you guys though.
I to went to my Dr. today and spoke of the necessity of getting off of these drugs. The thing that is scary and hard for me is that I am still haveing acute back pain from a degenerating disk. It comes and goes every couple of years. This time it came right after a surgery that I had.
I am 28, married with no kids. And thankfully no working and don't have to. I resigned about a year ago from a great job(more money than I ever thought I would make!) due to a relocation.
It looks like Jenn and I will be detoxing around the same time. I just got a refill today(60). I am going to try and stick to the 8 a day. I usually just stop taking them when the pain is bearable and then move on. I never knew these systems were withdrawls. I just fiqured it took a couple days for the meds to get out of your system. So I just dealt with it. Now I know there are things that can help.
Synderlla's comment about having a penis was so FUNNY. I can relate totally. I talk to my wife about EVERYTHING, always have. But one thing is for sure, explaining the med situation to her is one thing, her understanding it is another. She listens for a minute or two, but thats about it.
Just out of curiosity, how much are you taking now? Do you plan to taper? I'm not going to try, cause even when I do it just makes it worse mentally and drags it out. I just stop and then deal with it. The meds from the doc this time should help with the w/d's. I just need to find out what I should ask for.
Also, pot has helped immensely. I wouldn't do it without it. It takes your mind off of it and helps just to relax. Especially before a hot bath.
As you can see, I am a rambler too.
I hope to chat with everyone more through this. I have finally found out that it helps to talk to people through this. I have no friends(just moved back from out of country after 5yrs).
Chezz

[Chezz]

I can see why you wouldn't want to tell your wife. I was scared as hell to let mine know. Just due to the fact that I 1. thought she would leave me 2. the guilt and deception factor of "lying to her. 3. just the overall fact that I didn't want her to know that her husband, whom she looks up to and loves, couldn't deal with this. I was scared to know that she would think less of me.

The bottom line - your wife ALREADY knows. She just isn't sure what you are up to. She probably thinks you are doing heroin or something again.

This of course is just my outside point of view. And I for one thrive on somebody elses take on my own situation since it helps me to see what other people see. Most of the time these are things I simply did not see, or simply did not want to recognize. Then of course there are the times that they are completely off base.

Here is something that you did say -
I hope to God I will go through with it). I am painfully aware that I may be BS-ing myself, but I don't think so.~~~~~~~~I may contact a new physician next week to spill the truth.
This is just an observation, but it looks like you already have a plan. And it doesn't involve taping or cold turkey. It sounds like you are talking yourself out of going and getting a legit script due to your new insurance.
If you can't go through with it right now(detox). Don't B/S or beat yourself up because you are not ready. You have already taken the 1st step and that is to deal with the addiction and ADMIT it. That has got to be one of the hardest parts. Now is the time to talk about it, get support, and do what is in the best interest of yourself, your life, and your family. If you are not 100% or actually 200% sure that you are ready to quit and stay that way, then deal with your addiction and make a firm commitment when you are ready and going to stick with it.
This is just my take on things. I don't see the reasoning behind forcing yourself into something that you are not ready for and am already doomed to fail. This just makes it harder on yourself as well as the people around you.
This does not mean to just keep on popping pills and dealing with it later. This means to think about quiting everyday, watching you intake, and making a plan an convincing yourself that this is the best think for you.
Sorry for the book, just my thoughts. Could be on, could be off. Either way it is also helpful for me to write/read this to help myself with the stuggles I am going through myself.
Thanks,
Chezzz

[Chezz]

I am on Dsl, and always check this site probably 100 times a day.  Here is my email in case you would like to communicate that way. I know I need someone/'s to help me through this. ***@****
Feel free to write to your hearts content. Letting it out is the fastest way to finally dealing with this.
I also like to "let it out" too.

Best regards to all,
Chezz

[alexandra_r]

I'm so glad you're back!  I have been wondering where you were.  It sounds like you are doing pretty well to me, Natasha--you said NO to the oxys and that's really great (and hard to do for us addicts).  At least you don't have a long-term relationship with the vals but please be careful with this insidious drug.  The kick from benzos is harsh and long--much, much worse than opiates.

Welcome back and keep us updated on your progress!

[koalabear]

I sent you an e-mail, alex. THANKS!!!!!!
Leah

[pon]

hang in there....I don't really know if it will be as bad this time....I am on day 4 for 2 months of 10 vikes a day...day 1-3 were really hard, the stomach cramps, runs , anxiety and depression were bad...hardly any sleep the first two nights.  Last night was much better, and today seems to be too...I don't really know, but I would think that if you have been using for a shorther period of time that the physical part might not be as bad.  I kicked alcohol 15 years ago and it took several tries before I made it.  At least with that I found that the physical side was less intense with each try.

You need to talk to some one who knows more thn me...anyone out there who can help?

[alexandra_r]

I'm sorry to tell you this, but my experience with opiate withdrawal (and I have had quite a lot of experience here--addicted to heroin and methadone for over 6 years, 10 years ago and recently addicted to vikes), but w/d's usually DO get worse the more times you do it.  Plus, your body is more easily addicted each time you "slip."  

When I came off of vikes recently, I tapered.  It wasn't entirely pleasant, but it was do-able and the w/d's weren't so bad.  Perhaps you can go to a Dr. and explain that you are addicted and ask him/her to put you on a tapering schedule and then prescribe enough pills for you to do this.  This is the least painful route, in my experience.  Not everyone has the willpower to taper, but if you have someone who could dole pills out to you, it could work that way also.

Good luck--don't despair--you'll get through it.

[pon]

thanks for helping...Alissa, even if it is worse this time, hang in there you can do it...don't despair, we're pulling and praying for you.  Get to a Dr if you can...open up to them, they can help too!

[koalabear]

Can any of you Bostonians help me get 3 tickets to either the 28th or the 29th?  I am looking to take my son (is first game).  I just can't get any good seats online without paying up the kazoo.

Appreciate your help!

I am a die hard RED SOX fan, too.

Thanks,
Leah

[alexandra_r]

Hi Koala,

I think I might just be able to help you out.  My husband has season tickets and we don't use them all--we usually sell the ones we don't go to because we are living on both coasts these days.  We leave for San Francisco tomorrow and won't be back here on the East Coast until after the first of October.  Where are you, though?  How could I get the tickets to you?  Are you in Boston.  

We were at the game last night--it was sad.  The poor Red Sox lost to the Orioles--we left after the end of the 6th, but I think the score ended up being 8 - 3 Orioles.

[pon]

Hang in there...there are prayers out there for you, more than you know.  It is not going to be easy, but you can do it.  If you have to go to your folks for help, go if you can...they may surprise you.

You're 21 and have decades of a potentially wonderful life ahead of you if you can do this...I quit alcohol at 27 and have been sobor for 15 years before falling into this...the sober time wqas SO much better....try, you can do it.  I am going to make it...lot's of us have, you can too

you have my prayers

[earlygrayce]

i'm sure others can answer this better than i can, but i know that oxycodone(percs)is generally considered stronger than hydro(vikes, lortab). oxycodone is a schedule II narcotic(harder to prescribe), while hydrocodone is a schedule III. i know when i was abusing both meds, percocet always had the greater high (and harder fall). i would think that you would be o.k. with the percs after surgery, but maybe you will only be sure either way when it happens. i abused both hyro and oxycodone for about 2 years and have been clean about 5 months. congrats on your clean time and don't worry about the surgery, everything will turn out o.k.
the pain meds are there for people in pain, and something tells me that shoulder surgery might hurt for a bit. so as long as you are honest with your doc (and i know how hard that can be when addicted), he'll make sure you are comfortable.
if anyone knows different about the hydro/oxy question, please feel free to correct me.

Good luck Nod!!

[pon]

Are you out there?  Thinking of you with prayers

[pon]

Cold turkey is hard...some people seem to be able to taper to make it through withdrawl (withdrawal)...others, the tapering just takes you back to the drugs...I can't tell you for you, only for me...I can't taper..I fool myself.

I know you're scared...it is scarey, painful and horrible...but there is something much better beyond it...life

If you can go to a Dr, I would say go...doing this on your own, cold turkey is the hardest way...you can do it, but it is hard.  A Dr can help you through the withdrawl (withdrawal) and can also help you get set for the future with counseling or other means to help you through after the physical pain is over.

Allisa, believe in yourself, you are worth doing this for.  You deserve a life that you live and enjoy, not one where the drugs call the shots and rule your life.  You can do it...it is hard, but you can do it.

I am on day 5 and feeling well enough to go to work tomorrow...my prayers will be there for you and I will check the board as frequently as possible.  

If you CAN go to a Dr, go...they can help you.

Prayers for you and hope, there are many out here pulling for you...you can do it...you can.

[pon]

Hi...hope that you were OK today at work...hang in there it will get better each day.  I sent you an e-mail to the address you left in your post.  Please read it when you have the chance.

The next several days are going to be hard...but it will be worth it.  You can do it.  

You can write to me for help at the e-mail address I left you or you can post here and I'll keep an eye out.  I would suggest you keep posting...there are folks here who know a lot more about this than me and they will help you too.  We are all in this together and it seems to me that there are many good people here who will give of themselves to help each other.

Hang in there...you are worth doing this...it will get better everyday that passes...it will be hard, but you can do it and it will get better.

Hope you're OK...prayers.

[pon]

prayer for you tonight...

[percsnomas]

Keep fighting Allisa!!!!
Just know the horrible W/D's are FINITE(in time), and lifes' opportunities are INFINITE.....
IT REALLY DOES GET BETTER(on the 4th day for me it did)

[pon]

You did well...you should be proud of yourself...this is a damn tough thing to do, but you are worth it, and when you come out the other side things will be better.

You can do this.  Day 7 for me and I am feeling a whole lot better.  Almost all the physical stuff is gone, the depression and anxiety are starting to ease too...it IS getting better each day.  Hang in there it WILL get better each day.

I can't remember if this is 2 or 3 days for you now, but you need to eat if you can.  Try, your body needs it...do it if you can.  If you aren't taking any vitamins, please try to take a multi am and pm, or read the threads here where there are folks that have given much better advice than I can about non drug supplements.  Can you do some exercise?  Even a long walk helps....get your body moving again and exercise if you can.  YOU CAN DO THIS

You sound much better in your posts...stronger...keep going Allisa, persnomas is right, life's opportunities are endless AND they can be wonderful...w/d is hell, but it ends.  You can make it...do it for you.

I'll watch for your e-mail.  Prayers for you...your doing good...hang in there

[percsnomas]

Good luck Allisa today/tonight!!!!
We're all here for you as many times as you need us.
Just keep fighting. Forgive yourself about the perc 10, and go at it again.

[pon]

hey...nobody said it was going to be easy...everyone falls off sometimes...the key is to get back on...have a good sleep...talk to you later

[percsnomas]

sorry, i missed your post...
and to answer your question NO, I don't think they'll win it any time soon.
Doesn't hurt to dream though....
take care

[Chezz]

Allisa,

Like everyone has said, don't beat yourself up over it. Although you are right you have to start again. That is where I am at also.
I feel like I lost all of my clean time(4days). Which of course the 1st four days are the worst. After that I was on the homestrech.
You may have lost that battle. But you have to get the strength from within to fully get this stuff out of your life. I know how hard it can be and is.
You have to disassociate yourself from your friends that are using. We being addicts, makes it nearly impossible to not relapse around these same people.
One thing at a time though. And today that means being happy about yourself for the things that you have done good. One I can think of is not having a 16 aday lortab addiction.
So you have already come along way........
Chezzz

[percsnomas]

...just wondering where your at(on/off, reduced intake??)

[Chezz]

I am back on the meds for now. The 4th day pain/addiction got me. I am jumping back into it though. I had a few days of #$@^#$ after I couldn't hang in there. It is hard to admit you lost and have to jump up and try again.
My problem is I am still having the pain. I am trying to get off the meds long enough that my natural pain killer system(I forget the name for it - endorphins. Then I can use something non-narcotic to take care of the rest.
I am not giving up or giving in.
Where are you at? How are you doing?
Chezz

[percsnomas]

Firstly, you didn't lose...just a temporary setback.
After watching these boards for some time, the pattern seems to have people in the early part of recovery/w/d "latch on" to others in similar parts of their recovery(which obviously makes sense...sharing the experience); and it makes it easier for someone a little further along to stay out of the dialogue.

I just want you to know this is doable.  Not too dissimilar from bmac, I've had all kinds of back pain/problems including 2 surgeries, and had a relatively long term love affair with percocet.  It was such a part of my routine, that it consumed all of my extra energy, when not chasing my two little ones or running my very busy career. I was scared shitless with the thought of not taking them anymore(after all I had pain that "really" required opiates....at least that is what I'd convinced myself)

Now the important part...I'm in my second month completely clean, and managing the chronic low back pain with the occassional anti-inflam(Naprosyn). But life has improved sooo dramatically, that my wife told her doctor last week that she has her old partner back again. Just wanted to share that with you and offer any help I can. IT IS SO WORTH IT!!!!

[percsnomas]

^