I've been on Suboxone for 6 years. I've had enough. It's taken my relationship, my dignity, my emotions, and my sex drive. I feel numb half the time, and although it keeps me feeling really good, I know it isn't genuine. This has cause me to slip into deep depressions once in a while, questioning the fakeness of my life and yearning to be my former self again. I wish I could remember who I was, and what I even felt like before I started doing drugs, but that person's long gone. All I can hope for now is to reinvent myself as a new, better person, and to finally live the life I should have been living all along. I'm 34 years old, and my partner has been ready to start a family for the 9 years we've been together. I've never been in a good enough place to do that, because of the drugs, and time is flying by before my very eyes.
I substituted one addiction for another when I got myself addicted to Vicodin, and that happened because I was afflicted with unexplained anxiety and panic attacks one day. It came out of nowhere, this feeling that I had to concentrate on breathing, and like breathing would never be involuntary again. I couldn't sleep, I couldn't eat, and I holed up in my room with nothing to do except think about how I felt. This made it worse. I went to the ER many times, thinking something was physically wrong with me, but they did every test imaginable and found nothing. Then I was put on Xanax, which only dulled how I was feeling, not take it away. And so I lived with this for 2 months, had a dental procedure, and took a Vicodin. That's all, just 1 Vicodin. And BOOM. My life was back. The negative feelings went away and I felt normal for the first time. Of course, this lead to taking it all the time, because who doesn't want to feel normal all the time?
So now here I am in hell, where no one knows except my partner, and she understands nothing about addiction. And doesn't want to understand. I've been on my own to deal with it, and I've tried tapering this medication from hell many times. Well, I have no idea if a miracle has happened, but I've been feeling withdrawal for 2 days now, and it's totally manageable. I know about Suboxone's long half life, and how day 3 is when you can start feeling it, but for some reason I feel like this may be all there is. I feel like crap, don't get me wrong. I have the body shakes, the RLS, and the anxious feeling comes and goes, but if I were to stay like this for days or even weeks, I think I can finally beat this thing! I feel like I got addicted to the pills to beat an anxiety problem, and all of these years on Suboxone has let my mind heal and remember what normal felt like. So it's like I just know I won't go back to those anxiety issues I had before all of this began. For the first time, I feel like if I make it through this detox and withdrawal, I might actually have my old self back.
Now, let me tell you what happened to make me think this is a miracle. Last Friday night I took an Ecstasy pill. On Saturday I took another one, and then again on Sunday and Monday. I didn't mean to roll for 4 days straight, it just happened. Now I know this is NOT good, and that I completely blew my Serotonin load. I woke up Tuesday feeling very sick. Nauseous sick. And this nausea and overall ill feeling lasted 5 days, until Saturday. On Friday night, I took my last Suboxone dose, which was 16mgs, and I haven't had any since. For some reason, I feel like both the MDMA and the Suboxone were making me sick, because as soon as I stopped the Sub, I stopped throwing up. I felt completely fine. I decided to see how long I could go before I felt like I needed more, because my body ALWAYS knows when my next dose is late. (And I take mine at 16mgs twice a day). But I continued feeling fine. I'm telling you, I never feel fine for this long. Could it be that I accidentally cured my addiction with Ecstasy??! Thoughts...
I wished my stepson could get off of subs, he has been on them for 4 years, but he still uses other drugs also. I hope and pray you have kicked this, but I would suggest no more ecstasy. Keep us posted.
Although the lingering effects from the x may be keeping your dopamine levels somewhat high it sounds to me as if you have a much bigger problem. You are dealing with addiction and even though you are tapering from suboxone you are playing with fire by continuing to use. You are only three days into trying to solve a "life long" problem and you think you've found the solution in ecstasy. That in and of itself says you are not ready to embrace the necessary change that is needed to maintain sobriety and give yourself a chance. Are you being forced off of suboxone because you can't quit using other drugs??? There is no cure for addiction...it can only be arrested and put in remission by remaining completely drug free.
No no, the Ecstasy was a one time thing, granted spread out over a few days, but I've never done it in my life and I will never do it again. I've been drug free other than the Suboxone for 6 years. I got my life back with it, but it's at a point now where I am tired of feeling numb and fake and emotionless every day. I've wanted to start tapering for a while now, and I feel like the 3 day run with ecstasy has given me the jump start I needed. I have a full prescription for Suboxone, I just haven't needed any and today is now day 4. I have rescue doses planned out in case it gets really bad, but if this is all there is to my withdrawal, I don't think I'll need it. It could also be mental, because there have been many times in the past when withdrawal symptoms were delayed, just knowing i could take a Sub at any time. My question was whether or not the serotonin released by the ecstasy could have knocked out the Suboxone for those few days, and masked a time when I would have otherwise been with drawling. So now that I am out of the haze, maybe I'm through the worst of it and got lucky? I could also be full of crap and the withdrawals will hit hard any day now. Just looking for answers from someone who may know more about brain chemistry and chemicals than I do!
You were taking 32mg of Sub per day before you stopped? It's almost unbelievable to me that you're not sick as a dog; that's a huge dose...I'm wondering if this is a delayed reaction due to the large amount of Sub still in your system. I'd be interested to hear how you're doing in the next several days..Also, do you have a doctor you can call if you need one?
Yes, I'm under the care of a doctor who I see every month for my script. I can't understand it either, but I fully intend to ride it out as long as I can stand it. Like I said, mentally I know I have the Suboxone if I should need it, and maybe this is helping. But if I were to get bad enough to where I just couldn't stand it anymore, I would never go back to my regular dose. I plan to start with 2mgs, just to quell withdrawal. Then at the very least I
Oops, accidentally clicked "done." At the very least, I will have cut my dose and will be further along in my taper. Let me explain the reason why I think this may be for real. The 3 days I was taking ecstasy, I was also taking my normal dose of Sub, but not because I needed it. Because I felt I had to keep taking it. Once I started feeling nauseous and sick, I cut out everything it could have possibly been, then decided not to take the Sub on Friday just to see. That was the first day I did NOT feel sick. I have a theory that the ecstasy masked the effects of the sub, kind of blocked those receptors because they were already full. So withdrawal may have started then, but I didn't feel it because I was high on ecstasy. Then when I cut out the sub completely, I still had some effects of the E to get me through the worst of withdrawal. And trust me, it was NOT painless. I felt really depressed and couldn't stop crying. For 3 days straight, every movie I watched made me cry. I'm unemployed and my partner was away for the weekend, so luckily I was able to ride it out by myself. I felt like my life was hopeless, and I just chalked it up to my serotonin levels being depleted. Then I started feeling better, and still hasn't taken any sub. Could it be possible that I detoxed my body without even knowing that's what it was? I just don't know, but I really feel like I should feel worse right now.
I think you should feel worse right now, too! LOL. Especially with diarrhea and exhaustion and insomnia being common symptoms...I don't get it...
I hear what you're saying and your theory but I'm not entirely sure that E can bump Sub from those receptor sites completely...I'd have to research that...
You may be an exception to all the rules...after all, you tolerated 32mg for a long time and that's as high as it gets! You could also have a rapid metabolism OR very, very slow...All I've heard is how l o n g and unpleasant those Sub wd's are...and I'm glad you seem to be dodging THAT bullet!
Yeah, I don't know enough about what fills which receptors and all. I had diarrhea for 2 days a few days ago, and I've been battling the exhaustion by staying busy. Like I said, I am definitely feeling withdrawal symptoms, it's just very mild. I am using the "20 minute" rule. Meaning if I slip into a state where I feel like I can't take anymore, I look at the clock and wait 20 minutes before considering a rescue dose. When the 20 minutes are up, I find the symptoms have gotten better and I don't need it. Last night I could not sleep, but I focused on my breathing and before I knew it, I was waking up and the clock said 5am. I noticed that I felt nice and relaxed, so I went back to sleep for as long as I could. Woke up and went to a job interview. That was really hard, but I told myself I'd be able to relax at home as soon as it was done. When my interview was over, I felt well enough to run some errands. This is how it has been for the past 4 days: sporadic, and therefore manageable. So far...
Please keep posting on how you are feeling the next few days please! I jumped at .5 mg of Sub and I had severe w/d for over 3 weeks. I was also on Sub for almost 6 years. I never went above 6 mgs a day and I tapered very slowly down to crumbs. And I felt like sh*t. I still do honestly. I'm 36 days off Sub. I hate to sound so negative because I'm getting better every day but I just can't believe it's so mild for you! I truly hope you are thru the worst of it and can stay off. Life is so much better without having to reach into the nightstand every morning to get that dose of Sub and wait for it to kick in to get out of bed. Good luck to you!!
It could be a freakish thing. I once went through methadone withdrawal and on day 45 I felt about as bad as I did on day 4. I was about to give up and return to the clinic when I found a bottle with 4 tramadol in it. I'd never even heard of tram at that time bur I was willing to take anything for help. I took 2 and in 20 minutes I felt right. I the next day I took the other two and after that I was completely fine. I never looked for anymore trams. I didn't learn what they were until 5 years later. Perhaps there is something in mdma that can be helpful.
Wow, wouldn't be amazing if AnastasiaSteele accidentally discovered a great use for MDMA-opiod/opiate detox.
I just got inducted onto Suboxone 8 days ago. I had detoxed for the sixth (or sixteenth) time with a Doctors assistance from another 1 1/2 year run on Oxycodone/Hydrocodone/anything opiate I could get my hands on. Doc gave me Clonidine , which helped with some of the w/d symptoms such as the daytime Hot/Cold flashes and helped keep my blood pressure in check, but still felt like hell. Made it 16 days, but still had ZERO energy and was major-leagues depressed to the point where I had suicidal thoughts-and those caused me to relapse. Went to Doc and told him all about it, and got put on Suboxone. Doesn't get me 'high'-just 'normal'-whatever the hell that is anyway. I was titrated for three days and ended up at a dose of 6mg's twice a day, so 12mg's a day. I've made peace with my self that if I have to stay on Sub the rest of my life, so be it. It's better than being completely miserable and suicidal. The 12mg's holds me fine-I am actually already planning on dropping to 8mg next week. Now, Anastasia-your have been on 32mg's for 6 years???? Wow!!! I can't imagine such a high dose, but then again many people couldn't imagine the 120mg of crushed Roxicodone that I was snorting up my nose every 4 -5 hours along with 700mg of Soma-so there's that.
Anyway, I have read EXTENSIVELY about Buprenorhine (Suboxone), and EVERYONE that has quit has had to taper to a dose of .25mg -1mg a day before they jumped off, and many still reported drawn out, moderate withdrawals.
So I am thinking that unfortunately you may have a slow metabolism, Anastasia. Taking 32mg of Sub a day for 2,190 days has probably allowed a lot of the Sub to have built up in your fat cells and perhaps even bone marrow, so I think it's quite possible that you won't hit full withdrawals until about day 5 or day 6. I absolutely hope I am dead wrong and that the MDMA did a 'miracle' flush on your system kind of like what I have read that Ibogaine does, but something tells me that's not the case. Just be prepared for it, that's all.
A question I want to ask you Anastasia is have you considered that the very high dose that you are on may be partly to blame for feeling 'out of it' and getting depressed?? I'm no Dr. and lord knows I don't judge, but maybe if you taper down to let's say 14mg's twice a day for a week, then 12mg's twice a day for a week, then 10mg...... and so on, then maybe you can lower your dose to a point where you are not feeling those negative effects. Hopefully you are already feeling better and really have the w/d whipped and won't need a taper, but just food for thought if you hit a wall and find you do.
Good luck and my best positive vibes to you!
Yes, I absolutely believe the high dose is the cause of the depression and emotionlessness I've been feeling. I have NOT been on 32mgs for 6 years. I've been steadily climbing since beginning 6 years ago at 4mgs daily. The reason for this is because for me, it stopped being therapeutic, and started making me feel high. As an addict, we can adjust our brains to get high off of just about anything that has the potential. So I found myself needing more and more, to sustain the good feelings. Thus, Sub became just another addiction for me and now I want off. I had a good night last night, went to the beach for my anniversary. Came home and felt very anxious lying in bed. I took 3 Excedrin PMs and woke up at 9am feeling nice and relaxed. I went back to sleep until 11 and woke up to start gettin ready. I took my multivitamin, along with some 5-htp I picked up, which was supposed to help with anxiety. This made me super anxious, and I immediately regretted taking it. I just couldn't shake the creepy crawlies. I thought it was the withdrawal comin on, but now that it's later in the day, that feeling has gone away and I am back to feeling just ok like I did yesterday. I will never take that stuff again, only made it worse for me. I have cut out all caffeine from my diet, I quit smoking 2 years ago, so thankfully THAT'S not an issue. (Last time I was in withdrawal, smoking made my anxiety worse.). So we'll see how I feel later tonight, and especially overnight. Which is the worst for me because I have to just lay there, next to my spouse, and have nothing to do but think about how I feel. Torture!
You're doing great and your post is so inspiring! Amp up your magnesium intake...it will REALLY help with the skin crawls (which were my worst w/d symptom). Also soak in epsom salt baths (full of magnesium too). We're cheering you on!
Well Anastasia I hope you are feeling better everyday, and that you can whip this for good.
You started at 4mg's and went to 32mg's? Wow. Everything I have read about Bupe (Suboxone) has users saying that they actually LOWERED their dose as they continued with treatment and that they actually felt better effects with the lower doses. When you say that you started on 4mg's, you were taking 2mg's twice a day, right. I take 6mg twice a day- and the funny thing is that my Dr. wanted me to start at 8mg's THREE times a day. I just told him "No thanks, 6mg's works just fine twice a day". To me, Suboxone is NOTHING like Oxy and the others. I have no urge to take more than prescribed like with the Oxy- where I was supposed to take 30mg 4x day, and I took 120mg 4 x day, crushed and up my nose.
Subs have helped drastically against w/d and cravings so far.
Thanks everyone! I have to report that today it started getting bad. I had very bad anxiety and thay crawling-out-of-my-skin feeling ALL DAY. I tried that "20 minute rule," but it was hours that I felt like I just couldn't take it anymore. So with great humility, I have to report that I took a rescue dose. I took a 1mg shaving of Suboxone. My withdrawal symptoms went away, so the next step is to wait it out for as long as I possibly can, again. I feel like with the long half-life of the med, taking it every other day or every third day should be just as effective, especially once it has built up in your system for years! I read that London clinics dose people every other day. So I know for a fact that I will never go back to 32mgs a day. I didn't even need the 4 that I was started on. Let me give you a little backstory...
I was only taking 30mgs of Vicodin per day for about 6 months. That's it. And I was in withdrawal already for 3 days before breaking down and seeking out a Sub doctor. I was weak, and no one knew much about this drug. So I had no idea at the time that a.) I was almost through the Vicodin withdrawal, and b.) that just a sliver of Suboxone would have kept my symptoms at bay just enough for me to detox. Then I wouldn't have been taking the Sub long enough to get addicted to that, and violas! I'm a firm believer in the short-term taper. It just makes so much sense, if someone has a mild addiction. For people with worse, or who just cannot quit no matter how many times they try, I'm all for long-term maintenance. I just don't think I needed that. But my doctor's inexperience with it, and me just wanting desperately to make the pain stop, I agreed to her plan. Now here I am, completely a slave to this crap!
I'm curious, ncgirl, about your Tramadol experience, because I, too, tried using it to get through withdrawal a few years ago. You said you took 2 polls twice and then were fine, and never needed any more Trams. Do you mean that was the end of your withdrawal as well?? Tramadol is the perfect drug, in my opinion, to get through opiate withdrawal. IF, and this is a BIG IF, you can stop taking them! Kudos to you for that! At around day 6 in what would have been my Suboxone withdrawal, I took Tramadol to get through it for a few days. At around day 10 I woke up feeling great. I knew that the Sub was out of my system (I was only at 8mgs a day at that time), and I knew it hadn't been long enough to get addicted to the Tramadol. I had done it! I was home free! So what did I do? I told myself, "eh, just one more day won't hurt," and I took the Tramadol again. That began my 4 month long Tramadol addiction. When the online store I got them from closed down, I tried going back on Suboxone. Except I didn't know Tramadol had SSRI properties, so I emotionally CRASHED. Cried 24/7. It took a while to get my body acclaimed to the Suboxone again. But I had the answer, right in front of me, and I blew it.
So even though I slipped to get some relief, I still feel like I can beat this thing. I'm charting my progress and making note of times and feelings am everything. It does feel good knowing that I only have 1mg of Suboxone in my system in the last 5 days, and I feel perfectly fine right now. Let the countdown begin, I will let you guys know when the next time is that I do NOT feel fine!
Oh, and you guys don't have to write out my unnecessarily long screen name; you can call me Ana. Cheers!
You're doing GREAT Ana!!
If you can make it on 1mg every other day, that will open the door for you to drop to .5mg every other day within a few weeks. Few weeks after that, you can go down to .25mg every other day, then every 3rd day, then 4th..... Then jump off completely!
I CANNOT believe that any Doctor would have put you on Suboxone when you were only taking 30mg of Hydrocodone PER DAY, for only six months! That is absolutely horse manure. When I relapsed after the 16 days, I took 30mg at once and barely felt anything other than feeling 'ok'. Prior to that, I was taking 400-500mg of Oxycodone/Hydrocodone per day and when I ran out of my prescription(usually within 10 days) I resorted to buying anything off the street I could find- and buying Poppy Seeds online and making Poppy Seed Tea. The tea only worked when I got 'good seeds' , but actually gave me a buzz and kept me out of w/d. It's such a crappy life having to spend everyday wondering where you are going to get your 'medicine' from to keep you from getting sick.
I figure, after 14 years of using opiates ('chipping' for about 9 years of that time- 5 years in 'active' addiction) that I will probably be on Replacement Therapy the rest of my life, as I believe that I have changed the functionality of my brain with the prolonged opiate use. I wonder though, that since Suboxone is such a long-acting opiod, if it wouldn't truly be better to use the 'short-acting' Opiods for Maintenance. I have read that many Substance Abuse Clinics in England, Germany, and some other countries in Europe actually use the addicts' drug of choice (the drug the addict was using prior to getting into treatment) as the maintenance drug. The thinking is that since the problems that the active addict has (other than the possibility of overdose death) is caused by the obsessing about finding the drugs and finding the money to pay for them is what causes the addict to neglect his/her world around them and that if their drug is provided to them in a controlled medical setting, it eliminates the possibility of overdose death, and the diseases such as hepatitis and aids from being contracted through the sharing of dirty needles. So far the results are positive. In Germany, 60% of addicts that are receiving Heroin Treatment are now productive members of society, working and living as 'normal' people do. I have also read that long-term use of opiates in their pure form does not cause any harm to any major internal organs. The impurities in the 'street' drugs is what causes the harm, so they have eliminated a health concern.
Really makes me wonder, since I never had any problems 'functioning' while I was an 'active' addict, that if I were prescribed fifteen of the 30mg Roxicodones a day, if that wouldn't be a healthier option for me health-wise in the long term, since Suboxone's long-term effects are still relatively unknown. But since Reckitt-Bensicker is making untold millions off the Suboxone, and the fact that we as a country still govern and dictate morality, chances that we change our views on 'addiction' and treatment are slim. ESPECIALLY when you also factor in that the DEA is effectively practicing medicine these days.
Ana, did your Suboxone Doctor actually know that you were only taking 30mg of Hydrocodone a day when he gave you Suboxone ?????
Yes, she knew. I was given the 8mg tablets, and told to take a half and wait to see how I felt. I felt fine after an hour, so my dose began at 4mgs, only once daily. So when I said 4mgs a day before, I did mean only once per day, in the morning, and not 2mgs twice per day. My addict brain eventually turned this medication into just another way to feel high. Hence why I started taking more and more over the years. The way I did this, without my doctor's input, is that I left my first doctor and found one closer to where I worked. I went to the new one saying that I was looking for a new Sub doctor, and that I was currently taking 12mgs twice a day. He didn't question me, and he didn't send for my previous records. Then when I started taking more and more again, and of course I was running out earlier and earlier and was getting extras off the street, I lost my job and went back to my old doctor. She asked me what dose I needed her to write me, I told her I was taking 16mgs twice daily and she wrote the script. Never questioned me. So I got lucky, but not really lucky because this pattern has messed me up. I know that getting off this stuff won't be painless, because I have done years worth of rewiring on my brain. I just hope I can sustain a nice low taper for a while, now that I depleted my system of the drug for 5 whole days.
Oh, ok , you worked the system. That's ok, that's what we addicts do.
I defininitely believe that you can be successful with your taper. You've only taken .5mg once in 5 days, so it's possible, if you really want to do it.
As for me, I'm 45- so I figure that if I have to stay on some form of opiate the next 20 years or so, then so be it. I'm not going to beat myself up for it, and I'm not the type of person who cares what society thinks I should do. We're each unique, and each have the God given right to live our lives the way we seem fit. That's why I am so against the "War on Drugs" and prohibition- I believe they are an affront to our basic rights and a definite infringement on the Bill of Rights and Constitution. There is a reason for the 'separation of church and state' and that is so that we will not govern morality by some people's religious beliefs from a book that was written by MAN about 1800 years ago, translated from a language that few knew/know ( how much has been lost and changed in translation?) , and so wide open to interpretation. Unfortunately we began legislating morality at the same time that the Federal Reserve Bank and the Federal Income Tax were put into law(1913-1914). Coincidence?? I think not. We are currently celebrating 100 years since our Constitution began to get taken apart. Sad.
I digress. Hope you do we'll with your taper!!
LOL, I struggled with a screen name for a long time, and finally got tired of not being able to think of one. I looked around my room, saw the book sitting on the table, and took the name. Totally random.
I feel the same way, that I wouldn't mind being on some form of opiate, even Suboxone, for the rest of my life. It's my spouse who sees it as a shameful thing, and would leave me if I were to admit defeat and declare that I'll never get off of it. What ***** for me is that I never even gave myself a chance, at figuring out what was wrong with me 9 years ago, or trying to medicate my anxiety with actual anxiety medication instead of the Vicodin. I needed instant gratification and I needed to feel better no matter what, so I ended up ruining my entire life. I just don't know if I'll ever be the same again if I were to successfully quit this stuff. The last 6 years have allowed me to feel as close to normal as I thought possible, but can I ever feel that way without the medicine? Even after the physical withdrawal subsides, will my brain ever be right again? These are the thoughts that terrify me.
My opinion is that if [insert substance of choice here] makes you feel as close to normal as possible and gets you out of hating every second of life , then there really isn't anything wrong with taking it, as long as you are able to function in life.
The 'Morality Police' , a.k.a. Moral busy-bodies , are the ones who have twisted our minds and self-worth by declaring that anyone who cannot be happy without a chemical substance is defective, they are the ones to blame-why can't they accept the "live and let live" credo?
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