On Subutex for addiction but in bad pain and have perc???

[skins21]

I'm addicted to opiates but have been taking subutex to avoid withdrawal.  I have to take care of the mental part before I detox or I'll just wind up relapsing.  The thing is I did a lot of heavy lifting yesterday and woke up in pain.  If I go ahead and take either a couple percs or an OC for the pain now will I get sick if I take subutex later in the day???  

[skins21]

Thank u all for ur responses, even the tough ones as its something that I do need to hear.  I've been addicted to opiates for far to long now.  I take the subs to avoid wd while I'm trying to get my head straight.  Obviously I'm fooling myself in saying I need to take the oc's to get some of the tougher work I do done.  I screwed up this time and will have a better way to cope the next time around.  Thanks for ur help!!!

[bmdad]

Do you want to get clean or are you just taking the subutex to get you through withdrawals until you can get more oxy? If you are serious about getting clean or if you want to get clean you need to get the oxy out of the equation. Most sub doctors give drug tests and if you get caught with something other than sub in your system you will more than likely get kicked out of the program. If you keep going back and forth you will eventually take the sub too early and will have the worst withdrawals of your life and there is nothing that will help them. Once you get hit with precipitated withdrawals it doesn't matter how much sub or oxy you take, you will just have to ride them out for a few days.
You need to take a step back and decide what you want to do here. You can't keep going back and forth. It could end up killing you. You're messing around with some strong stuff that should not be taken like you are taking it.
What is your main reason for starting sub? What are you hoping your outcome will be here? You really need to get this figured out.
They say you should wait at least 24 hours to take sub after taking an immediate release pill such as hydro or percocet. You should wait much longer if you took something like oxycontin or any other extended release pill. It really doesn't come down to time too much, it comes down more to withdrawals. I would have to be wiggling on the floor with withdrawals before I would take it.
You are playing with fire here.
What are you trying to accomplish with the sub and the oxy?

[janet19]

Well skins I am not sure what kind of game you think you are playing. One thing is not to medicate yourself anymore. You are playing with some dangerous substances here and I not really understanding what you think the subutex is for. If you are taking it to overcome an opiate addiction why would you want to take opiates with it. The benefit would be null.

I take 16 mgs of suboxone a day. However I did not use it when I was detoxing and made it through the detox just fine. I have absolutely no pain at all in my body. It is used now for pain management in Europe. I was happy with that but that is not the reason I take the suboxone. My doctor told me to not take any controlled narcotics at all while on this med because there was a big risk of death. I felt so good I decided to cut the suboxone back myself down to 8mg instead of the 16mg. That is when I started to have some problems vomiting all time and feeling just blah. Sort of like the flu and our other dread thought I felt like I was in withdraw. I called doctor he blew up and told me to go back to 16 mg a day. Guess what the blah, vomiting thing went away. I was forcing wd's on myself. I would of not thought that. I am back at 16 mg a day and feeling good. I am following doctors instructions. The one other major thing that I was told when I got my first script for suboxone the doctor told me I would be drug tested each month and if he found a trace of another narcotic or pot in my system I would not get my script refilled and I would be off the suboxone program.

Thing is that you are self medicating and you are doing it with some very dangerous substances. Substances that should not be mixed. You will never get away from addiction as long as your behavior continues. You could be making your own pain and withdraw feelings. You need to decide what you want. You are worth it and you can do it, you just need to do it the right way.

[IBKleen]

Not to be rude hun, this is the first I am reading about you. So you take Sub in the am and Oxy in the pm? Or am I not understanding this?

[skins21]

The thing with me, and this may be strictly mental, is that now the oc helps to get me going, like what downing a couple red bulls would do for normal people.  A normal day I wake up and take 4 to 6 mgs of subutex but I feel like a lazy bum, no strength or motivation to get up and out of bed.  i wake up usually already feeling "antsy" and like my skin is crawling until I get the subutex in me.  

So I been working on getting this message out for hours.  I took my oc's early, about 8est, it 7 now and I'm not feeling too good.  No stomach issues or major wd just the anxiety.  If I get the restless legs can I take subutex or will that make me sick???

[bmdad]

You're thinking of naloxone in the suboxone. The nalaxone isn't the opiate blocker in suboxone. The main ingredient is Buprenorphine which is in suboxone and subutex that is the blocker. The naloxone passes through this system orally. The only reason it is in there is to keep people from shooting it up. If the suboxone is used IV the nalaxone will then do its job.
So really there is no difference in the suboxone and subutex unless someone tries to shoot it up. Vicki is right saying the subutex is stronger so it will attach to the receptors and block any other opiate out.
Now that you know that it is the buprenorphine that does the blocking and not the nalaxone you should know better than to take another opiate.
I'm not sure about how to go back to dosing with the sub. That could probably get tricky. This is something you should talk to your doctor about. You're gonna have to be careful also. Sub doctors are usually required by law to drug test. If something does show up in your system you could be kicked out of the program.
I too suffer with degenerative disc disease. I also suffer from spinal stenosis, sciatica due to scar tissue hitting my nerve from a failed back surgery, arthritis in my back. I'm not even going to mention my knee problems! I too work a very physical demanding job that makes my pain sometimes unbearable but I know what happens if I take a narcotic pain med. My addiction will spiral out of control once again. Until you learn to deal with your pain other ways, this addiction is only going to get worse. There are many other ways to deal with the pain, especially back pain.

[vicki595]

Hi~  Did the OC do anything for the pain?    I don't think the subutex will make you feel worse,it's just that you're not really helping yourself.  Subutex is more powerful than the OC in that it's half life is longer and it's more of a "sticky" drug. It will attach itself to the opioid receptors in your brain,thus blocking any other opiate. In other words, it takes over.  So,it's a waste to take any other opiate while taking subutex.

Can you get with a doctor about this?  Motrin 800mg 3x per day will probably help more when taken with subutex.

Post back~

[skins21]

Thanks for the concern everyone.  I know the suboxone has the chemical that I can't spell but its a version of the blocker but I have the subutex which is just plain beuprinorphine(sp?).  I went ahead with the oc cause I'm really hurting physically and will be doing more labor today.  I know I will be in a world of pain due to degenerative disc disease.  If I wait till I start feeling withdrawal symptons to take just 2 to 4 mgs of subutex will that cause me to feel worse???

[bmdad]

Having any other pills in the house isn't going to work while on suboxone. One of the main reasons to start sub is to get out of our addictive behaviors. For me pain is also a big trigger. When I hurt I instantly think about taking a narcotic pain med before I think about motrin, tylenol, heat or ice. You have to learn to accept the fact that you will not be able to take an opiate for pain. There are exceptions such as surgery. I suffer with back pain. The other day my lower back felt like it "went out". I could stand up from a chair without using my arms. If I bent straight forward I would stumble and fall. The pain was extreme but with using over the counter pain meds, ice and heat I made it through just fine. We don't need an opiate for every little ache and pain. That is one big thing addicts need to realize. I know when I was using I would take one at the first sign of pain. I would say 99% of the time I could have got by without it.
You are on sub, you need to realize that you can't take an other opiate. Like mentioned about, you won't feel a thing and you also need to get away from feeding your addiction and working on your addictive behaviors. Sub can help but you still have to do the work.

Brian

[Cissy373]

I agree with  tramahater as long as the pills are in the house you will take them, I know I sure would.

I hurt so bad last night thought I was going to die and unlike a lot of other folks on here I can't take Advil or any Anti inflammatory pills to help, so I just have to get a big rag and grit my teeth, but I got through it and still alive today.........pain is gone for now, but took no pain pills.

I kept an on going refill for more years than I care to think, but through the help of many on here was able to finally cut that chain around my neck and let them go.

Was it easy??? Mercy NO, but was so sick of the battle of WD'g then getting the refills that I finally just said NO MORE!!

Please know we are all here for you and will help in any way we can.

Cissy

[SCtranspose]

Not the best idea. It will not send you into precipitated withdraws, but you will feel absolutely NOtHING!  When I first went on subs a couple weeks back, I had 2 oxy 80 mg left and decided to take 1/2 of an 80. Well.... I waited..... And waited..... And waited ...... And nothing ever happened! So 2 hours later I took the other half 40 mg and still nothing.... Throughout the day I took the other one and it did not help with pain or give me any kind of sensation that I had taken anything. You see the Suboxone blocks all other opiates and they will never get to the receptors to turn off the pain. Chuck the perks down the drain and stick with the subs and advil or alieve. Believe me, it's worth nit having the temptation around the house calling your name at the slightest hint of pain. Talk to your doctor about alternatives to help with your pain but whatever you do, do not stop your Suboxone therapy until you talk with your doctor and are absolutely ready to be done with your habit.

[cathy5841]

The subtext will block the opiate complete...not only will you not feel it but it will probably make you suck as a dog.  It will put you into what is called precipitated withdrawals.  Not a good idea at all.  Do some research on sub it is designed to keep you OFF opiates.  Take the advil and u will be surprised how much it helps..good luck n keep posting.

[LeaAnn807]

That is a BAD idea!  Gotta find another way to deal with pain if you are going to get clean, right?  You don't wanna keep opiates around the house, or they will always call out to you to take them for "something" that hurts!

Good luck.  I would NOT take it.  Try 800 mg of adil!!! : )