Oxycontin

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Hello everybody...I just wanted to put a quick question out there. As many of you already know I quit using Oxycontin Friday March 9th. Life has become much different during these past few weeks. I find myself sad and depressed one minute and on top of the world the next. I have been going to NA meetings on and off. I really havent had a good experience with the program. I call my sponcer and he doesn't return my calls. That hurts because I thought that NA was there to provide unconditional support. I get temted to use on a daily basis. The good thing is that I have a choice. I am not dope sick anymore and for that I am forever greatful! My question is this.........Many of us have been using for a very long time. We have to look at life in a whole new way. They say take one day at a time. I understand that but how do keep from falling back to our regular ways? You see when we stop using our minds tell us that we need to get our lives back on track. Get a job, do things around the house, reconnect with friends and family ect., ect. The point is thatI find myself really pissed off at the fact that I have wasted so many years just spinning my wheels. I have no direction and would really like some guidance. Any words of encouragement would greatly be appreciated. I know there are many of people out there just like me. Quiting using was the easy part....Now is when I need help. I just need a glimmer of hope! I belive that it takes tremondous support to change a persons life. My whole exsistance has been centered around drug use. How do you change a person like that? I look at every situation like how much better it would be to be high. I hope this make sence to some of you. I am really in need of help right now. I look forward to chatting with you guys. Maybe we could start up some more direct support system for ourselves. This board has helped many, many people. I think it is good to post our feelings because I think that alot of people can relate. My prayers go out to each and every one of you! Thank you in advance for your continued support! Chad

[Pixie]

I feel for you, Chad. I take these pills on and off (mostly on)  for chronic pain and I hate them. Every time I have gone off them thinking I could manage my condition sans pills, I was plunged into this miserable withdrawal. Then came the really hard part-the lull after the withdrawal. What do you do with yourself? Thad damn urge to go back is ever present-nagging and tugging. This is the critical period. The make or break time. You know that because you've been off them for a while when you take them again you will get a strong high. That is temptaion enough. Listen to me: your tolerance will snap back in a few short days. You can never go back to the "innocent" times of when you first tried them. You can never take them here and there. If you start again, you will end up needing even more than last time. Each time you go back it gets worse.
Here's the key: Your idle mind is playing with you. Keep yourself as busy as possible. Crazy, out all the time, no time to think busy. You are one of the free, the normal again. Go live your life!!!!! THis is what you wanted, and you did it!!! Go run right now-far and fast and until you're sweating and exhausted. Then go home and shower and go back out to a BArnes and Noble and get a drink and sit in the cafe and read about something other than drug use or recovery. Buy some fiction. Lose yourself in a story about people that don't use drugs.
Read some Fantasy-it's my personal favorite. Or read an inspiring biography about someone who you admire. Go to church or become a buddhist or get a meditation tape. The stuff made by this company called "Pila" is terrific. In other words-move on!!
Your done, you are in control now. Your body is healthier than it has probably been in a long time. Your mind is clear.
Take advantage of this opportunity to never look back-you won't miss those stinking pharmacists looking down thier noses at you. (or whatever your source was)
Anyway, I'm sure you get the point.
Congratulations-you're on the other side now. You are so strong now. You have NO limitations. Enjoy...
Pixie

[cindi]

Hi Chad,  I have been in your exact situation, my whole existense was centered around drugs...could not leave the house till I was buzzin, could not work unless..  have sex unless..etc.after I got out of treatment I had to learn to live all over again...and I did it...what I did was found a great sponor that became my best friend and biggest support, I hung aroudn with mainly people from NA, every night I was off work we had "clean parties" which consisted of board games, cards, music sometimes we would stay up all night just talking and laughing, we even had a half-way to Christmas party in July, we put up and decorated a whole christmas tree....I met my husband in NA, but before we started dating he was part of our crowd i hung with and we would jump in the car and ride all night to nowhere...we all went to meetings together and hung out at someone's house after that..there were days though that i was down and wanted to use..but I held on not one day at a time but sometimes one minute at a time. I wrote alot. I hooked up with people in NA that had alot of clean time,,some people say that NA does not have alot of clean time,  I disagree, the meetings that I went to had people that had been clean for over 10 years..My sponsor now has 15 years...I hung with those kind of people...I had to learn to work without the high which was hard, at first I was not allowed to give narcotics but eventually I was, and that was hard but one minute at a time and soon after I found myself not having a problem at all....even the other nurses at work were very supportive of me and if they knew I was having a rough time they would sit with me, i would call my sponsor at 3 am if I had to....as far as your sponsor goes, talk to him about why he won't return you calls,  then maybe consider a new sponsor, and always make sure you have a support system that consists of more than just your sponsor..so if you need to talk and he is not available you can call someone else....My home group had events, hayrides, bonfires etc and we all were learning to live clean...are you working the steps with your sponsor?  do you have a higher power you can turn your will over to?  I do understand where you are...firts you get on what's called a rehab high,,that wears off and you are thenleft with reality which does suck at times.....this is all part of "recovery" learning to deal with life on life's terms...you are still new but the longer you stay clean and really work the steps, reach out to the program you will in time feel better...if you are just clean without a program then you are stagnant and more than likely to relapse...maybe a spiritual or emotional relapse whcih then will lead to using again....think about where u came freom how hard you worked to get clean and keep coming back.....good luck   love to all   cindi   PS  how is deb doing,,,good i hope....

[shane]

Chad, You are posting my exact feelings and situation.I to was through detox on April 1,I'm 18 days clean from 80-100mgs of hydro a day. I have used drug and or alcohol for 35 years, and now i'am off it all. I don,t even feel alive. ITs even hard writing this because I have no Motivation, but I wanted to at least try to help. How you feel sucks real bad. Its like 'I thought this was supposed to be better!" I feel Like I,am drifting away and towards my old Nemisis! But, and here,s the hope; I talked to my sponser this morning and he helped me through those ExACT feelings your having. He has been through it all; Heroin, oxys. shooting, dealing. everything! Your (our) feelings and excitment for life WiLL return.Please hang on!He is nine months free and says its like a new lease on life. Whenever he felt like using he would just force himself to remember EVERY shitty losy time when he was a slave to this ****. After the first couple  time,s back your not even getting high and now you have to go through this **** all over again! Everone without exception,who stayed clean says its worth the sruggle! Please stay the **** away from this trickyshit addiction mind game.Its a lie and you know it!! I pray this helps you somehow,and mabey tommorow the rolls will be reversed! I wish you hope and  strenth to get through. Your on your way Chad, You,ll be  free.Stay tough. Shane

[cindi]

CHAD!!!  Remember the monster I talked about?  well he is after you, not only is he doing his pushups in the parking lot at meetings, he is jogging and lifting weights,  he is so pissed at you right now for avoiding him...fight him with all the strength you have.....this **** is not worth it, it will devour us and take away everything we care about, our dignity, self worth...and our life....love cin

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Chad, I wish that I had words to help you through this period of recovery that you are in!  All that I can think of is that we are here to help you in any way that we can.  Sometimes just writing all of your thoughts here is your best bet to get through all of this turmoil.  Try to listen to yourself because you are your own best friend.  Be honest with yourself and decide what you will; I'll be here for you no matter what.  Your post has helped me today more than you know.  You've been given all of the tools to stay clean and now it's up to you.  Go with God and be well, my friend!  J.B.

[pelle1985]

Hey Chad,

I can relate to everything you're saying.  They say that once you remove the drugs from the addict, that is only half the battle.  The other (harder) half is replacing the behavior of taking drugs to feel good (or at least normal).  The feeling of having wasted large portions of my life is something that, if I dwell on it, will make me want to use again.  I am trying to look at my past only in terms of what I don't want to repeat, not as a way for my addiction to tell me "You suck, *******, you deserve pain, so you might as well take some more drugs and get on with it.  You'll always be a loser and since it's only a matter of time before you use again, you might as well just go ahead and do it now."

I was once clean from drugs for just over five years.  However, in that time, I worked no program and did not actively try to change myself in any other ways other than not using.  As a consequence, I abused other things -- substituted them in for my drug-using behavior.  I abused money, avoided responsibility, even almost destroyed my marriage by substituting sex as my drug of choice (which is a long, Jerry Springer-like tale that I am not ready to get into, even on an 'anonymous' forum such as this).  Suffice to say that even in the absence of drugs, addicts who are not trying hard to change their lives in other ways are like "dry drunks" in that our addiction takes other forms to try to finish the job of killing us.

My clean date being only January 10 of this year, I still have a long way to go as well.  But it is getting better.  The first step is to not take anything.  The real work comes later and may take a long time.  Feel free to ask me anything -- I can't guarantee the right answer, but I have probably been there.

Peace,
Pelle

[dee dee]

To Chad from DeeDee. I can relate to how your feeling. Did you stop cold turkey? or did you taper off? I also was taking 80 to 100 mg. of vicodin or norco a day, sometimes even more.Since i know my supply is coming to an end soon i have tried to wean myself off. this is my third day of weaning. i dropped myself to about 30 to 40mg. and i feel like ****. I'm only taking enough to barely take the edge off the withdrawls.Even though we don't know each other on this forum, it really helps all of us to share our feelings as were feeling them, not to mention something someone says will help in some way. Did you read the post from thomas to me about taking the L-tyrosine with vitamin B-6?I already bought both and as soon as i have myself weaned down to next to nothing, i'm going to start on that regimine. especially since a few people have been trying it and have had success.If you don't find that tread, let me know and i will re-post the dosage . Keep up the good work, i know how hard it is. DeeDee

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Wow! Once again you guys came through! A long time ago, when I first started comming to this site I posted a question about quitting. I got alot of responces and decided it was time to look at what I have been doing. The point is that it was and is your input that is helping me and Debra. I am so forever greatful! I want to respond to each of you in detail. That is going to take some time...Tonight I helped someone towards quitting their use of oxycontin. I felt very greatful to be able to have the knowledge and the desire to help this person. I am however a little drained from talking so long. I can tell you guys this.....Tonight as I close my eyes I will be thinking of all the strenth and wisdom that your words gave me. Each and everyone of you who posted above are all saints in my book! I can't thank you enough of how very much you mean to me. I wish that I could some how pay you all back for what you are doing here. Please promise me that tommorow you guys will think about how you have helped a total stranger and expected nothing in return.I will write you all soon...Goodnight my friends! Chad and Debra

[spook]

"I even almost destroyed my marriage by substituting sex as my drug of choice (which is a long, Jerry Springer-like tale that I am not ready to get into, even on an 'anonymous' forum such as this)".
WAY TO GO,WITH A SMILE ON YA FACE.
OD on heroin and you just fade away.

[spook]

"I have a family who looks up to me, for being as strong as I am for the bull **** I'v put up with my child hood which is hole other story which started me in all this ****".
Here in this sentence lies the problem and its solution.
You will need to elaborate on this as I think it is the Pathology that structures your so called addiction.
As opposed to the Physical and Psychological Dependency that you have on Oxycodone.

I hope you can find some peace.

[pelle1985]

Hey. . .thanks for giving me a smile about something in which I find little hunor lately.  You're absolutely right.

Peace,
Pelle

[Thomas]

I've taken lot of chop for not "being true" to NA, favoring attending AA meetings. Go to to some AA meetings, CHAD. Tell the group you need a sponsor. Don't accept the first guy who offers you his card, but, I recommend, hooking up with an AA long-timer WHO WILL NOT ONLY RETURN YOUR CALLS BUT WILL CALL YOU WHEN HE DOESN'T HEAR FROM YOU. It's one of the qualitative differences between AA and NA. I wish it wasn't so and I'm sure plenty of people have great NA experences -- but not me, and, apparently, CHAD, not you, either. Don't get hung up on on AA vs NA -- USE WHAT WORKS!!!!!!!!!

[OxyAmy]

Hi sorry to butt in on the thread, my name is amy and im addicted to oxycontin and other opiates.
    I'm 17 years old, I work at Eastern Maine Medical Center in Bangor and if I don't have a oxy I don't go to work. I'm sick it I see pills all day long and knowing I can't have them makes it much more restless going so I think if I just don't go I just don't have to deal, RIGHT no not with me I have to pay rent every month work 8 hours a day,hide it from the love ones. I live with my boyfriend in a nice apartment, I have bills to pay every week, but the only thing I think of when I get my pay check, that next pill, where I'm I going to get that next high, my problem is I want out, I want to be able to get up and feel normal, to be able to have energy without that pill, but i can't deal with the pain.  I get leg cramps the worst but then I sweat. can't sleep, feel like i can't sit longer then a second, I get so angry with my lovely boyfriend who is also some wait adddicted but stands behind me when I need to fall.  I'm to the point where I'm gonna go to my family and ask for help ask for a med leave at work then head out the rehab, it's the only choice I'm leaving my self , I have a 40 plus hr. job where I make 10 dollers an hr. I have a family who looks up to me, for  being as strong as I am  for the bull **** I'v put up with my child hood which is hole other story which started me in all this ****.  
   well I'm still addidicted to these damn things and I'm just looking for somebody that can relate and tell me how it is walking into rehab, till then all I'm doing is dealing and useing milder opites to use in replace of the oxys..








'

[cindi]

Now do you really understand how much we, on this forum care about you...and chad, you are not a total stranger, so I can't see your face but it seems like we are all pretty much family,,,kinda cool, I always wanted another brother allthough you are probably young enough to be my son, my brother is 18  LOL  anyway, the only way that you would be able to "pay" us for anything would be for you and debra to be ok, to go on to live productive lives with each other and make lots of pretty babies,seriously, be well and we'll be happy for you....Love. you friend cindi

[spook]

If a thought enters your mind and invokes an attached memory,cast it out if not pleasant and dwell on it if you like the feeling.
Remember to forget the bad.
Do not forget to remember the good times.
Learn from both.
What has happened to you is not any different to a compulsive gambler being barred from their favorate Casino,find interests,but give it 6 months first, you are at the hardest part now,the part where the gambler finds another casino,if only they waited,some say patience is a virtue.

[OxyAmy]

Hello, everybody, thanks for the input.  It's nice to hear from other people that know what It's like, and not have to see them every day, but some people, like my boyfriend also think that It's also a psychological more then physical, but thats because I hide what I realy need everyday, and just take what I can get day to day!!!  Really I need more just to feel better and want  to get up every day! I'm trying to this minute to cut my self off and to slow down and I'm doing okay, I got my pay check and only spent a little on oxy and have the rest in the bank off limits.
    so thanks agine for the input, hope to hear agine!
  
pelle, what do you mean you have a smile on your face!?, good   I hope, how you coping, whats up with any of your habits, good now, hopefully?  Hope to hear!!
  Peace, OxyAmy

[OxyAmy]

Sorry to butt in agine, I just realized i messed up one of the respones, I thought Pelle was writing to me but it was to another, SORRY by accident, I little tired tonight, no hard feeling, please!

[Frankinscense]

If your sponsor is not coming through GET another one. A sponsor is person that you search hard for. Not just any sober person. Get two sponsors if you need to. Are you processing your steps? DO you have access to a certified substanse abuse counselor. This can be a great help. What step are you on in your level processing. You know 12 step program? This forum should only be a small portion in your recovery! Best of Luck! Be Spiritual! Stay Focused! You Will Succeed! Dan...

[HedHurtz]

Hi,
I recv'd your name from someone that I emailed re: my detox issue. I hope you don't mind me intruding on this thread, but I am desperate. I am addicted to Fioricet, I'm up to about 15 a day (750mg) and I need to self detox. I read so much stuff about barb withdrawal and that I'm gonna die if I try to do it myself and it's worse than heroine. I heard the terms "the lower the slower" or short acting" or "half-life"........ I DON'T KNOW WHAT THOSE MEAN! Can I phsysically do this? I have a 4 month old that I just put in to full time day care, so I have some help. I cannot tell anyone my problem. I can't go into a facility! PLEASE GIVE ME SOME ADVICE. THIS ALL STARTED WITH A MIGRAINE!

[Thomas]

I don't have any specific knowledge abut detoxing from fioricet. However, if it were me, and I had the supply necessary, I'd reduce the amount by one pill every two days. Two days at 14, next two days at 13, etc. You have go from 15 to 0, so it sounds like you'd need at least 240 pills. Since you're using 15 per day, I presume you have access to that many pills. As you get down to, say, 6 per day, depending on how you're feeling, you may have to go three days at 6, three days at 5, etc. down 1/2 a pill for a few days til you feel you can go completely off. That's what I'd do. But, if possible, you might want to try to locate a doctor on the net that can give you a professsional perspective on this. I think my schedule would be safe, but it would be good to hear from a doctor before you start. Good luck.

[pelle1985]

I know this question was directed at Thomas and not myself, and I have read all of your posts and know your rationale for not detoxing in a controlled (inpatient) setting.  However, it would be irresponsible of me not to once again say (and I know you've already heard it enough here) that going inpatient is not only the safest way you will detox from your substance, it is likely in your case to be the only way you will be able to stop.  This is just my gut feeling as someone who knows you only through this board and your posts.  My prayers are with you whatever road you choose.

Peace,
Pelle

[pelle1985]

No problem. . .it's always good to hear from others, even if "accidentally" (although I'm coming to believe that there really are no such thing as accidents).  Doing okay, better than when on the stuff, not "there" yet (wherever *that* is), and don't know if I ever will be, but okay for today, which is all I'm asking for at this point.

Peace,
Pelle

[HedHurtz]

So what your saying is that I just up and leave my baby (f&*k my huband)and go into a facility? I am so confused. I know that they will survive without me for a while........but I'm so scared to make that move. I'm scared to detox, I'm scared that my family will think less of me, I'm just scared!!!!!! This sucks, why can some people just be able to take pain meds and that's it, but others have to take ALL of them???? I know, woe is me! Bull! I hate myself for being like this. My depression gets deeper every day!

[spook]

Comment By: hedhurtz to Anyone on Saturday, April 21, 2001



So what your saying is that I just up and leave my baby (f&*k my huband)and go into a facility? I am so confused. I know that they will survive without me for a while........but I'm so scared to make that move. I'm scared to detox, I'm scared that my family will think less of me, I'm just scared!!!!!! This sucks, why can some people just be able to take pain meds and that's it, but others have to take ALL of them???? I know, woe is me! Bull! I hate myself for being like this. My depression gets deeper every day!

=================================================================
You have discovered that the DRUGS are stronger than you(not me) and you need outside Professional help,GO FOR IT!.Do not be ashamed.(you are a mere?Human)
You are taking a MAN made drug that requires Human intervention to get over.
I can make(synthesize) drugs `:"so"' addictive that they make crack look like baby candy,people literally KILL to obtain supply,you are not using a drug like that but you will slowly self destruct to get it.If you do not trust your husband to look after your BABY then can you find a Mother ,Father,sister,brother,or friend to look after your cute liddle buby during detox?.

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

You are not just scared, you are paralysed!  Why not take the advice of your friends here and get into detox?  We were all like you at one time or another and had to either sh*t or get off the pot.  Do it before you lose everything you ever "thought" you had!  J.B.

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Hi everyone, I just wanted to say hi and thanks again for all your input. Because of my bad experiance with NA I haven't gone to a meeting in at least two weeks. I don't know if I was looking for a reason not to go or what but the fact is I stopped going. I am going to a meeting tonight. Maybe that will help me. I guess I am going to have to get involved with NA or AA full force. They say that the program can help us with many areas in our lives so I guess I will give it another shot. I woke this morning actually cursing the day outloud. That is no way to live a so called life. I need structure and purpose both of wich I haven't had in a long time. Oh well, I guess I'll go for a walk. Yipie! can you feel my excitment? I look forward to talking with you guys and plan on checking in on a regular basis.........Chad

[cindi]

Well, I'm glad you decided to come back.. after you were here the last time, you gracefully bowed out by saying you were going to do things your way, you loved your husband and you were not going to leave yada yada yada,   We have all done that, asked for help then didn't like what we've heard so we tried our own way and became more miserable....just where you are now....Like JB said, you are paralyzed why not take the advice of your friends here we have all been in your situation and it's not going to get better until you do something about it....like JB said we had to **** or get off the pot.We all gave you our input last time, our advice etc. and please, I mean no disrepect but I don't think any of us would change the advice we gave you as it was all the kind of advice where we know what we are talking about....We have been there hon...we know what will happen and your misery will only escalate....God truly does help those that help themselves....... good luck....cindi

[cindi]

I am very concerned for you,  it does not matter what 12 step group you go to..Tom has not had pleasant experiences with NA as many people, I, on the other hand have not good experience with AA but to each is own, I will not bash any 12 step rpogram as they have helped thousands of people in our situation.  AA has been around for many many years and without it NA wouln dot be here but what you are feeling is normal like dan said access to a dep. counselor would be helpful tom said get a new sponor dan said 2 take this advice and like I always say run with it....when I got clean I talked to everyone cried on everyone's shoulder and wrote and talked and cried somemore....things will get better if you stay clean....how is deb?  please, give her my love..Is she ok really?  tell her she can write to me....if she ever needs to and that goes for you as well,,,, good luck and have a good weekend   Love cin

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Cin, go to the top and read my last post about NA...I am really pissed at the whole program right now...Deb is OK, she is going to write you soon.

[cindi]

Hi Hon,  I just sent you a reply in the post aobve re: NA and the people bashing you and deb..please read it and if you need to write me you can at ***@****    I understand what you are saying and going through  please chad I am very concerned,this is the kind of **** that makes a person give up and dislike recovery & NA, AA all of them but....i can't bash any of them which ever one you are comfortable at...we need to talk more....love cin

[pelle1985]

Hey Chad,

It's great to hear that you are still off the oxys. . .I know it's a Recovery slogan but it does "get better" -- often not in big, mind-blowing ways but small realizations from time to time, which are different for everyone.

As for your NA experiences. . .I can relate somewhat.  Without pointing any fingers at you and without knowing what those experiences were, I can offer some of my experiences from the place I'm at right now.  I tried NA meetings in 1992 (went to the first one high), then 1993, then 1999, then 2000, and now in 2001 (which gives me at least five white key tags, although I only know where two of them are right now).  After carefully considering my experiences at each point I approached NA, I have discovered nothing different about the program at all at any of the points I went to meetings.  There were the same mix of ragged-looking, either high or withdrawing addicts, some young people (many of these, actually), some older folks (not nearly as many -- what does that tell you about the average life span of the addict?), and many personalities.  Some were almost "born-again" in their intensity and enthusiasm for the program -- they had found something that literally saved their lives and wanted to tell EVERYONE about it, usually loudly and in-your-face.  If you did not listen with rapt attention and agree on every point they dismissed you as "not ready" for the NA experience.  These people, no matter how well-meaning, can be almost overwhelming to the newcomer.  I go with the program guideline that calls for growth of NA by "attraction rather than promotion", which to me means simply that if you show that you are getting your life back through your actions, words and deeds at meetings and in life in general, this is more attractive than verbally and zealously "promoting" your experience and almost closed-mindedly insisting that yours is the only way to recovery.  Even the Twelve Steps are meant as "suggestions" rather than absolutes.

Others would seem quiet or withdrawn, preferring to pass rather than speak at meetings.  Some seemed troubled, some peaceful, some thoughtful.  In all these respects, the meetings have not changed a bit over the past nine years I have tried to "get with the program".

But I did.

Before you think that this is another one of those "born-again" testimonials, hear me out.  I want to emphasize that this is *my experience and my experience only*, not The Only Right Way.

I think that this time out I realized a few things about my addiction and my life, and what I stood to lose if I did not stop.  First would be my wife and children (a five-year-old girl who believes her Daddy is a combination of Superman and God Himself, even after all my ****-ups and shortfalls in her life already) and a five-month-old son who is sure to follow Daddy into addiction if he sees it. . .as surely as this son followed his father, now nine years in the grave.  They would be gone, in addition to my job, my health, and eventually my life itself, and sooner rather than later at the rate I was going.  I had already lost all self-esteem and had sunk lower than all previous lows, having stolen, cheated, and lied, even from those who were helpless to do anything about it, people who were entrusted to me to protect.

Chad, believe me when I say that it was hard for me to do all those Program things during my withdrawal (which I did cold turkey), so I only really focused on one thing that I had never done before, and that is the NA slogan "Keep an open mind and give yourself a break."  To me this meant listening openly and being willing to try things suggested to me by NA members who, through their sharing and personality (and clean time) I had grown to respect.  I tried things that others with years of clean time recommended, simply because they worked for them.  As I go on, I will try to keep listening to suggestions and holding on to those that work for me while discarding those that for whatever reasons worked for others but not for me.  And lastly -- and most importantly -- I will not let me bullshit myself.  I am absolutely terrific at this, but I cannot afford to let myself do this any longer.  All addicts know what I'm talking about here, because we're all experts.

Chad (and anyone else who has read this), I will share what small experience I have with this recovery thing if and in whatever detail you want it.  As in all things, I hope I have helped here, if only a little.

Peace,
Pelle

[cindi]

What a real, honest and intelligent post, thank you for sharing that with all of us....I sit here with the tears not stopping as I read what we share...Addiction is a very real part of my life as well as recovery, it is who I am, who I will die, it has taught me how not to live but more importantly it has taught me to live....Love to all   cindi

[Jay-Jay]

You know sometimes this all starts sounding the same.. I don't want to start preaching but you all can truly find something else to fill your lives... It is called the saving grace of Christ...  After going off of this stuff you will see that God's grace is really all you need... Jesus didn't die in vein, his death is for all of us to to ponder... 3 days of darkness then you will rise again (could it be 3 days of detox, why is this, take up your cross and follow him) and then it is just a matter of faith after the rise... There is a saving grace that you need to hold on to, you cannot let the devil take your freedom away again... You have power over those thoughts that you have to use dope... You just have to believe... The evil wants you to believe that you can never be innocient again... That is a lie, turn from your ways and repent and your brain will get back to normal and joy and peace will be restored (don't listen to these rocket sienctist that say your well being supply is depleted...) You know after going though the agony of the 3 days of darkness (detox) you ought to watch TBN christian televison or whatever channel, you understand this makes a whole lot of sense... Quit thinking your a failer and start understaning that there is a spiritual reason for your emptyness in the first place... Could be alot of reasons from childhood on up however if you understand that we ALL are empty and just fill ourselfs with other things "some healthy like excessive exersise or successfullness" things like that then you won't let the devil beat you up so much about drugs... addicts, addicts, addicts... we are all addicts in one way or another...  All I can say is start building Faith and believe that you are a child of god and listen to only him... The devil wants you to believe that you are his and therefore you will only listen to him... He only has power if you let him... Jesus died for your sins and that is the ultimate power, you are wonderful, listen to him... I get so saddened sometimes to hear ya all talking about how life isn't going to get better... If you only knew the truth.. Withdrawling from addictions is an opportunity to increase in faith, to rely on something outside of yourself... addictions is a blessing if understand the lesson....

I pray for you all... and pray for me too... I need it...
xoxoxoxoxo
your friend in recovery..... :o)

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

Well, Chad, here we are again after several months of posting. I suggested to you back in July that you and your girlfriend may have to go your own ways to get and live clean.  Maybe it was more of a warning of things to come for you.  Let's just say that the same has happened to me in the past in both AA and NA. Sure I was upset at all the "gut grinders" who were trying to take everything in my life apart.  The best advise I can give you is to not drop out of the program that has helped you so much.  People will test you from time to time to see how serious you are about "your" recovery.  Just look 'em straight in the eye and say thank you for your input, I'll consider it!  Hell, some day you might find out that they were right!  J.B.

[HedHurtz]

I do appreciate all that you say. I'm in tears now writing to you. WHY IS IT SO HARD? My mind is twisting me one way and my body the other way. If you all have been through this, why can't I do it? I'm using my daughter as an excuse. If she was not here, I would have been in detox months ago!

[Thomas]

"I had already lost all self-esteem and had sunk lower than all previous lows, having stolen, cheated, and lied, even from those who were helpless to do anything about it, people who were entrusted to me to protect."

I'm curious, are you in a health care profession? If I worked anywhere near a hospital, pharmacy or sick people with nightstands filled with bottles and bottles of controlled substances, it'd be all over for me.

[cindi]

that's Why I got out of nursing,,,it WAS all over for me..too many narcotics....and I am not too proud to admit that I do not trust myself with all that stuff......:(   cin

[OxyAmy]

Pelle,
   Well, I'm not quite there either, still using everyday really, but I'm still trying with the help of others, my boyfriend, he is a big help he sees when I'm hurting, he knows what I feel like. I hate that though I hate to see any of my friends see me like this, even though they all do it mostly, but how do you feel about your frends or whoever see you like that?? I sure hate it! Anyways just thought I would drop a couple of thoughts. Hey thanks for writing, Its nice to here from others, not around me. Hey just for kicks, you can see what I look like at iamihot.com at Amy D. haha!!    
   Thanks agine for the input  
                             OxyAmy

[Kerrie]

Hi girls,
  I want to commend you girls for reaching out for help. I came to this forum looking for information to help my daughter who is addicted to hydros and others. She is 22 ,married with a 4 year old and six month old. I too have to take pain meds for a chronic pain condition. The people on this forum have been a blessing to me. I have learned how easy it is to become over-powered by these drugs.I've been guided on what to look for in my daughter and information to share with her. I pray she will look for help before she not only looses her family but her very life.
  As a mother, I can tell you, I would rather my daughter come to me for help than to go through any silent pain  for fear of judgement.We can deal with feelings but your lives are to precious to loose because you wanted to keep it from your family.Please take the next step and enter a detox program. Your screaming for help , now knock at the door and go in.I have a brother 46 years old and today he has nothing. I adopted his son 12 years ago.He has nothing and cares for nothing but that fix.
  These people on this forum care. I come here every night to see how everyone is doing. I am proud of them. They mean to change their lives. But you may of noticed, their serious about getting on with the help part. I understand that hauntings from our childhoods can be horrible and make us look for ways to escape but you've only let the monster win by not getting help. I had a horrible childhood but I choose to be happy now. You have to do the same. Your worth it. If you have a mother or sister or friend you love dearly and trust, go to that person and they will not judge you if they are worthy of your love.Please listen to these people. They care.
    God Bless you both,
     Kerrie

[pelle1985]

Hey Amy,

Thanks for your note. . .you say you'd like to stop using, but that you still do every day?  I've been there, and hopefully won't be back.  There's too much of life to miss while on artificial euphoria. . .my thoughts and prayers are with you, and if you ever want any advice or help, I'm here.

Peace,
Pelle  (PS -- were you serious about your picture?  I actually checked the website but could not find you. . .oh well, maybe I did something wrong.  Take care, and let me know how you're doing when you can).

[pelle1985]

Yes, I am in the healthcare profession.  I have no plans of leaving it anytime soon.  I realize that I will be surrounded by narcotics, but also realize that as easy as it is for me to get them in my job, it is very nearly as easy for me to get them via other established means (doctor shopping, Internet, and so on).  I know that ultimately I am the one who must decide whether or not to use drugs, no matter how easy or difficult it is to get them, and moving out of my profession because of the abundance of narcotics would be only a victory for my disease and an excuse for me to use at a later time.

Peace,
Pelle

[spook]

You are addicted to and Phsically and Psychologically dependant upon a BARBITURATE,now that is much harder to get off than Heroin or Crack for example.Your mission is to reduce your dose by half a tablet per week,thats all,can you do this and make some progress:yes/no?

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Thank you for making such a lengthy responce. I don't know man.....I still haven't gone to a meeting. I don't want to return to that group who talks **** about my recovery. There is another group closer to my home that meets on Wed and Friday night that I am going to make my home group. They have always made me and Deb feel very welcome. I understand what you say about the program. The problem is that there aren't to many people like yourself speaking out at the meetings that we have been attending. I know you are suppose to hear all the war stories and stuff but to be quit honest sometimes it just depress the Hell out of me. I am just really bummed out about the whole sponcer not calling me back thing. I hear that he was one of the best in the area. At the very least he should have told me that he wasn't interested in talking to me rather than leave me hanging. I look forward to chatting with you as I have many questions about this whole recovery thing. Who knows, maybe we could help each other. If you want or anyone else for that matter you can e-mail me at ***@**** Pelle!
Chad

[OxyAmy]

Pelle,
   Your so nice, yes, I still use, somedays more then others, but I am trying really hard.  I have a good job that I can't lose so I have to put that frist, plus my family. I'm just so sick of spending my hard earned money on such stupid ****!!
  So did you go to rehab or did you just quit cold turkey? I just wish I could get up and be all ok but not when my body hurts every second of the day without one!!  Did that happen to you?   Ya I'm series about the pic, um its under AmyBoo my roommate changed it so go ahead and look, tell me do I look like I'm addicted to pills!! Haha
   Thanks for the help, keep in touch.
                                  OxyAmy

[pelle1985]

Thanks for your response, Chad.  I've been really busy lately but if you're interested I could email you my story in greater detail.  Again, the things I relate aren't necessarily the Right Things To Do, since these things vary greatly from person to person, but if you find something that you can use, so much the better.  Let me know if you're interested.  In the meantime, don't take anything and go to meetings.  If a particular meeting bums you out because of the people there, go to others.  I know that the Philly area must be overflowing with NA if it's anything like the Pittsburgh/Metro area (where I am).

Peace,
Pelle

PS -- another Program slogan you may have heard is "principles before personalities", which to me basically means that yes, a person can be an annoying *******, but if you stick around long enough to listen to them, you may come away with an idea that you can use, thus making the ******* (I mean, the person) in question not totally useless to you.  Keep this foremost in your mind as you meet people who may try to get into your head or work your program for you.  I've found that there's almost nobody from whom I can learn nothing (even if it's how *not* to act).

[pelle1985]

Found your picture, finally.  Although you are attractive, I'd have to say that yes, I can tell that you've been using pills.  Some of the pictures of me from last fall have that same look to them, which is why I now hate to look at them.

My story in brief:  been taking pills and drinking off and on since I was sixteen.  Was introduced to pills at home by my father (Tylenol 4's) and liked them immediately.  Some of the drugs I've abused include: codeine, darvocet, percocet, valium, triavil (a downer), haldol, vicodin, adderall (adderrall) (speed), and so on.  I've done rehab three times now formally, and tried NA about five times in between.  I was clean from drugs from 1993-1998 but, since I worked no program, became addicted to other things as substitutes (money, sex, etc.), and now realize that during those five years I did things that were at least as sick as (if not more so) the things I did when I was using drugs and alcohol.  I counted up to fourteen times that I can remember when by all laws of nature I should have died from overdosing on alcohol, drugs, or combinations.  This doesn't even count the innumerable times I drove drunk or high and lived to tell about it.

As I wrote to Chad in other posts, the rehabs I attended and the NA meetings have not changed during the last ten years or so -- the only thing that has changed is me.  Not to preach or anything, but when you decide that you're tired enough of this **** to do something about it, and only then, will you change.  This is true about anyone, of anything in their lives.

Amy, you're still young.  You don't need to waste the years that I and so many others have.  If there's anything I can offer you, in the way of advice, stories, or whatever, then just ask, and I will do so.  Most of all, keep coming here, to this board, to keep reminding yourself of what you will become if you keep using.

Peace,
Pelle

PS -- I am deliberately not referring to you as OxyAmy.  I won't define you by the substance you take.  To me, as to God, you are just Amy, and that is more than sufficient.

[susanlea]

I'm new to the forum. I've conversed with Spook a couple of times and he gave me some good information. I'm hoping you can help me out here. My boyfriend of over 5 years and I broke up over a month ago because of his addictions. About 3 years ago he started using Oxy's and Percocets sometimes 300mg  aday. After being in detox for a week, he  went a couple times a week to NA meetings(it was required)he had a good sponser, but never really stopped using. 1 year later, many sick days,withdrawals, lost work, he got  on methadone, no programs,meetings or sponser, just a bottle of 30 20mgs every 2 weeks. Long story short, I couldn't take the abuse, lying, stealing, his seclusion, and he refused to talk to me. He's angry, acts like he hates me, and living with his mom and dad, he's 38. My question here is, does methadone kill off the endorphins like the Oxy's or did they never come back? I'm confused, since he started abusing heavily, he's had no interest in kissing, having sex, laughing at jokes, he can't even taste food.   It was like this for 2 years. I tried the best way I knew how, to help him, which in away was the wrong thing to do. I'm in counseling, going to Al-anon meetings, reading as much material as I can find.  I know I can't change him, I'm trying to help myself now, this has really changed my life, like the addict the ones who love him are forever changed. I look to god to help me find peace in me and my childrens lives. We haven't seen him in a month. We all  miss him and love him. But I can't see  any future for us, he doesn't seem to want to stop, he says he's ok now, if he can stay on the methadone. Does it ever get better? I strongly recommend those who love an addict, to get into a program for themselves, I'm new to it, but I have found the other people in the groups don't look at me like I'm crazy nor do they feel sorry for me, because I stayed. Thank you, all of you,  for being there......love Susanlea

[pelle1985]

Your boyfriend sounds a lot like I was during my abuse of opiates -- withdrawn, distant, unwilling (and unable) to share physical or emotional closeness with others. . .the plain fact of the matter is that when we (addicts) are high, we are satisfied enough with the sensations of our brain that we don't *need* any of the other things (like love and companionship), and that when we are not high, we are usually angry, hostile, and preoccupied with finding the next dose of our drug of choice.

I fail to see the value of methadone "maintenance" for any kind of drug abuse.  In my opinion (and *only* my opinion), it seems to be merely substituting one drug for another.  It seems vaguely like a kind of conditional surrender to one's addiction, in that the addict is not promising to change anything about his or her life except to say, "Well, there's no hope for me, I can never stop using *something*, so I'll switch to something legal that is more socially acceptable than what I've been using."  I'm sure that methadone is the only answer for some who are beyond any other hope. . .but it just seems like a sad kind of half-life which I would never want for myself.

As to what you can do for yourself and your kids -- I believe that you are doing the only things you can at this point.  Attending to your own recovery through Al-Anon, Nar-Anon, or Codependents Anonymous is the healthiest and most reasonable choice right now, whatever your signifigant other should decide about his own life.  My own wife has shared with me that she had a detailed "escape plan" in place in the event life with me should become unbearable or outright dangerous.  I have no illusions that she still does not have one, or that some part of her will not always be in that mode of thought, no matter how long I stay clean.  The damage we do to those we love the most as addicts may never truly be undone -- in the best of circumstances, perhaps we may be able to build a bridge back to one another.  But that takes work from both sides.  This particular bridge is one that cannot be completed from one side or another -- both must work towards the middle.  By working your own recovery, you are building from your end.  Unless your partner begins his own work, however, you will have to be content with the fact that your own recovery will give you back your own life.  I hope this perspective from an addict's point of view has been helpful.  Please let me know either way.  I come here often to remind myself why I quit using in the first place, and hopefully to offer my experiences to others who may be interested.

Peace,
Pelle

[pelle1985]

I'm sorry to have gotten so wrapped up as to have ignored one of your main questions.  As to the endorphins and the function of the brain altogether. . .I'n no neurologist, but as I've had it explained to me by a long-time professional substance abuse counselor:  use of any substance produces changes in the physiology of the brain.  The longer-term the use, the more changes take place -- and as a result, the longer it takes once the user comes clean (stops using substances of any kind completely) for the brain to repair itself.  I understand that the average time it takes for most abusers in the mild-to-moderate category to completely "normalize" the brain is anywhere from twelve to eighteen months (although improvements begin almost immediately -- this is, of course, if no irreperable damage has been done).  But things like memory and the ability to experience emotions appropriately (or even recognize them for what they are -- I went days at a time early on in my detox process in an edgy, angry, irritable mood until I realized that I simply needed to cry, and a great deal, after which I felt much better) are things that I can expect to struggle with for well over the next year or so.

The key here is, this "repair" process only begins once the user *stops using completely* -- in other words, if your other is still using methadone, the process will not have a chance to even begin, since methadone produces the same changes in the brain as other substances like it.

I know this isn't the greatest news in the world, but it is the truth as I understand it.  Let me know if anything I've said is unclear, and I'll try to clarify (tough to think staight being a recovering junkie as it is, let alone with two kids running around in the background for sound effects!)

Peace,
Pelle

[HedHurtz]

I finally read your post and I thank you greatly for responding. I just started work again and I couldnt get back. So, I have to take a half a pill less a week? Or a day? I don't even count the damn amount that I take. So what is "Lower the Slower " mean? I'm all confused. If I only take a half a pill less a day, how is that gonna help? I know that I'm rambling, but I'm so excited that someone may help me (you). Get back. Thanks

[susanlea]

Thank you. That's how he has become, non-emotional, except for anger, and always tired. My 10 year old's best friend was accidently killed last summer, his brother and him were playing with  a gun. This was tragic, my son felt awful and cried, cried, but my partner told him sternly that he needs to tuffen up and men don't cry. He seems to be dead inside. People have commented that he has no personality. He has no life. We can't even talk without an argument about (my addiction has nothing to do with us)but it has everything to do with it. To him I'm nothing but a f-ing *****, maybe I became one, for trying to help him through this. Now he has the peace he wanted, his mother will take care of him just like I did. Maybe now he'll see his 4 kids that he's ignored for the past 2 years. Maybe now he won't miss 3 months of work again, maybe now he won't be in so much pain, throwing up, jittery, fever, the withdrawals on oxy's were terrible. Now that he's on methadone, maybe he can be a functioning addict. One more question? Do opiates make you lose your hair? His hair was thinning, he has become very pastely looking, and he's gained some weight. He used to be in such great shape, but now he looks 10 years older. Do the narcotics age you? He's been doing somekind of drug for over 25 years, acid, crack, pot, coke, ludes, alcohol. He occassionaly still smokes pot, but drinking 1/2 a beer makes him sick. Is this all catching up with him now. I'm so afraid he's going to die. Last year the Dr's. said(when he was in detox) that if he had continued like this, he would have been dead in  6 months, his body was so toxic. I wished he had stayed in program, his sponser, but he says he can do it on his own. He seems to be losing everything, and doesn't care. I'm so proud of addicts who want and try to change. That shows they still have feelings. We all have to have hope, because when hope is gone,  we have nothing....God Bless.....Love Susanlea

[pelle1985]

I've heard in many cases where a side effect of methadone is weight gain, but nothing about drug (specifically narcotic) abuse making one lose one's hair.  This is more likely a side effect of the stress of addiction taking its toll on his body (or just an acceleration of a pre-existing hair-loss condition).

Yes, drugs *do* age the body.  Terribly.  For each period of abuse, some amount of the natural life span is taken away.  Of course, as each person's body differs slightly, the amount and rate of decay differs, but the net effect is the same -- a premature death.  By how many months or years no one can say.

Drugs have an impact on all bodily systems, not just the brain.  Some effects are more long-lasting and irreperable than others.  As I stated before, however, no healing can begin -- body, mind, or spirit -- as long as the abuser is abusing any substance.  Drugs are unnatural substances introduced to the body.  When used properly, they can be of benefit (anti-depressants, insulin, antibiotics -- even pain medication when used properly for a legitimate condition), but when abused long-term, they invariably act to destroy the person, piece by piece.

No, Susanlea, you are not a f***ing *****.  His addiction calls you this because you were calling attention to it.  I don't know how many times in the course of arguments with my wife I made statements to the effect of "The drugs don't have anything to do with it!" when, of course, they had everything to do with it.  The disease of addiction is a slow means of commiting suicide.  Most addicts have strong, painful issues in their lives which have gone unresolved.  Instead, we chose to self-medicate with substances that at least briefly let us experience joy, if artificially.  The downside is that the drugs we take to kill the pain will also kill us if we go on using them long enough.  Addiction is no more or less than a long, slow, cruel and unusual form of suicide practiced by those who believe that they not only deserve to die, but need to be slowly tortured to death.

Lastly -- the methadone may, perhaps, make this man into a "functional addict" (if there is such a thing, which I doubt), at least for a time. . .but he will never regain any kind of emotion or spiritual connection with himself or anyone else until and if he decides to face his internal demons, whatever they may be, and completely change his life.

I'll get down off the soapbox now.  Thank you for bearing with me.  I will be praying for you and all who are hurt so badly by this disease.  As always, let me know if anything I've said has helped.

Peace,
Pelle

[spook]

Hello.yes I recommend you take it real easy and reduce by a mere half tablet per WEEK.(no hurry is their)
"lower the Slower" means(an example here only) if you are on say 10 tablets of something and you reduce by 1 tablet that is a 10% drop and easy to handle,now lets say if you are now finally down to 2 tablets(a day) and drop 1 tablet that is 50% drop and therefore withdrawals will be more prominent(so slow it down),you may want(feel comfortable) to drop once a month before you get to this point,say at around 5 tablet a day start once a fortnight to drop half a tablet from weekly dose and when down to 2 tablets drop once a month,I think you get the Idea,I HOPE?.
Remember that when down to half a tablet a day and comfortable,when you stop that half and go to a zero dose that is a 100% reduction in dose so it will hurt the most ,you may want to take a quarter of tablet per day for a while.
I have seen people stuck on literally 1mg of Methadone per day,and they had to mix water with it and just have a sip and throw the rest away,so they had just a taste,but this seemed to me a bit Psychological so beware of that last little bit,be firm in mind when to put it out of your life and just STOP!.
Drugs Suck.Good luck Hedhurtz.

[OxyAmy]

kerrie,
       Wow thank you so much for your letter, that was diffently a eye opener. I am sorry for taking so long to write but I have a 40 hour job where I work 9 hours a day, on top of using I'm just so tired. I do appraciate you caring and checking on all of us, I am new here I was told by a friend who also uses about this place and I am so happy because now a have a place to go to where I can talk with other peolpe that I don't have to see everday!  Anyways my story like others, yes I do  have a horrible child hood and was around all these drugs by my mohter, so when you say your worried about your daughter please don't let up it will so much pay off, and when that day comes I promises you your daughter will thank you so  much .
  Ya my mother anyways i only lived with her intill iwas 8 or so then i got taken a way by the state luckly I had a loving family that wasn't invoveld in drugs or alchool so i moved in with my aunt who gave me everything but i was just so young and not use to having somebody to look after me i just didn't know how to take it so i stoled lied did everything to try to get back with my mom. anyways to make a long story short it took her 5 years to want to get me back, my freshman year in, high school i moved back with her she didn'd drink like she use to (thats why I was taken) but she was on to other things PILLS so of course not thinking it would happen to me i started smoking pot and then it went all down from there .
  So here i sit addicted to oxycottins which are stronger then hydro and if i had only a mother who didn't use like you that can see the signs i would still be in school and not addicted to these damn things. I am trying so hard everyday and coming here and taiking to somebody like you pushes me even harder, i am begging you don't give up on her remind her she has everything don't lose it to drugs. Now being a little older i have my boyfriend who helps me everyday to get up, we've been together for a long time and we plan someday to have a family so that also pushes me, i have my family (not mom she's in prison now because of pills!!!) but i do love her and i do help her now she did hit rock bottom and i believe god sent her there to save her so now i do sleep better knowing shes alive and that matters a lot. sorry so long it just goes on and on so please do keep in touch let me know how everything goes please do don't let up on her it will pay off.
   If you do  feel like reading all this do write back, i do apprcaiate you caring so thank you i needed somebody like you to talk to about this. For being only 17 i have a awesome job at my local hosptial (eastern maine medical center) and i do plan on finshing high school so i will get there one day soon!!Iam not giving up nor will you
                      OxyAmy

[Kerrie]

Hi Amy,
  Like the others, I too choose to call you Amy instead of your sign in name.
  I'm glad you read my letter.I'm sorry to hear about the pain you went through as a child.My father was an alcoholic and I was so afraid of him coming home each day. He had a terrible temper when he drank. My father died at 56 from heart failure. He had quit drinking a year or so before that.My husband and our family had moved to Tennessee along with my brother and his family.My father and mother moved about a year later.I was 25 when my father quit drinking.He also started going to church and gave his life to Jesus.My father was a great guitar player and played with his brothers and sisters at bars or at their homes a lot. He never knew until he moved to Tennessee that I played the guitar and sang.He was so tickled to find it out. He lived about a year after they moved here. My point is this.Because of his drinking,we lost a lot of precious years.The year he lived here ,we sang and played our guitars a lot and had a wonderful time.I was so thankful for that year but was angry at being robbed all those others years because of his drinking.
  Your so young. There's a lot of happy times ahead for you.But you do have to get off the drugs in order to find that happiness.My daughter approached me yeasterday about going to rehab.I pray she's serious. She is on probation for having drugs without a prescription.She's on 3 years of probation for that. She has missed two payments on her fine and I fear if she doesn't get help,  it's just a matter of time before she's in jail. I bailed her out when she was in trouble before but I won't do it again. She may have to hit bottom before she gets help. The only thing is , if she gets arrested here, she can't get help, like rehab,until her sentence is up. Don't wait for something bad to happen to get help.She never thought anything like this would ever happen to her. But she was wrong.
  Be determiined and do keep coming to this site and keep talking.Like I said before,these people are serious about helping you and others wanting help. I'll keep you in my prayers.This really is a good place to talk to people.Let go of the past Amy. You may come from a rough childhood but you can overcome it. Nothing makes the past go away.But you can grow strong enough to overcome it.I know. I did it. I forgave my father a long time ago. He never meant to hurt anyone. He had an illness.I've learned a lot from the people on this forum They are great therapy. I'll continue to come to this forum. I get a lot of strength by reading their comments.Stay strong and determinedAmy and God Bless You.
                     Kerrie

[neenie]

hi amy, read your post. sorry to hear about your mother. why is she in prison? and you are so young w/so much ahead of you. why would you want to speak certain things into your life such as OXYAMY? remember that the tongue is a very powerful thing. i am sure you don;'t really like being called that. susanlea, whatever you do, please don't expose your precious children to what seems to be a monster. your children will only blame you in the end. you are their mother, to protect,guide, love and cherish. i know about love and blindly seeking any way you can to make things better. he won;t change unless he wants to. children should be comfortable, protected and if not by their mother then who? and if they are exposed to a life like the one you describe the cycle will only continue. if kids were not involved, i prob. would not even be typing this but be careful with them. they are only impressionable oncelove,neenie

[OxyAmy]

Pelle
     Ya my mom also introduce me to pills, she also got a script of percet, so of course i was willing to do them and then it just went from there. She's in prison now and doing well, i think if she didn't end up there she would be died to this day, so everynight i do thank god, she might not be a good mother but i would'nt be here if wasn't for here. so she might of not helped me not do drugs but i do love her and would do anything for her so i go visit her and seeing her clean and looking good helps me out.
  My birthday is in july and she gets out in july, a coulpe of weeks after by birthday so my goal is to be clean when she gets out so we can help each other out so she doesn't end up back there, trust me if she does she knows thats it with me, I will never look at her again but she doesn't even want to go back to that ****. To having to have pill everyday so i believe i can do it with the help others and coming here and talking to you does help me out!  Sorry it takes so long to write back sometimes but i work 40 hours a week 9 hr. shifts so i do read it everyday but i just don't have time to write everyday but thank you for writing me, and thanks for thinking i'm pretty and being honest about being able to tell i'm addicted to pills. I do need to be told by somebody that doesn't see me everyday that can tell. so how old are you i think i might of missed it! I read everyhting you write but then i get writing and forget what i'm saying sometimes so please don't mind!!!!
I do think i'm ready for rehab i'm just kidding my self by saying i'm cutting myself off everyday cause you no as well as i do thats not the way it happens!? Right. I feel like **** everyday but i eveyday i do it and just beat up on myself more and more so like i said i want to be done by july 12, do you think i can with the experience you've had. How old were you when everything went down , when you deceided to be done? See i'v done all those little pills you mention but those really don't do much for me now, i'm addicted to oxycottin, i do about a 40mg a day so its not that bad but it is when i don't have it, the body achs are so bad for me well you know so anyways thanks for the input. Im just blabbing so i'll stop for now. Plesae write back if you want, I do like writing and hereing from you.
  Hey by the way thanks about the name thing, i do like that alot better, i did never think of that!!
       Write back
                    Amy

[pelle1985]

Thanks for your reply. . .didn't realize that your mom was in jail for the same problem that we have.  Yes, my father introduced me to drugs, but unfortunately there is nothing I can do for him now since he died on March 27, 1992.  The period surrounding his death was one of the periods of my heaviest use (as was December of 1998 when I learned of my mom's diagnosis of Alzheimer's disease).  My dad basically died in the hospital on March 3, but was resuscitated three times only to live out his final 24 days on a ventilator (which breathed for him since he was no longer even capable of that).  This is without a doubt the worst experience of my life, with or without drugs.

I can't say for sure what really was the bottom for me as far as why I decided to quit when I did this time.  I had had shoulder surgery in November 2000 and was on vicodin for the pain since then when, on January 10 of this year, my doctor refused to refill my scrip.  At this point I no doubt could have used one of my other sources to get more junk, but something inside me just said "enough".  It's funny, I remember saying to God, Satan, or whomever on the way to my appointment that morning, "Whoever is more powerful, give me what I need."  Just sort of like that, wanting to see if God or the devil was stronger and whether I would get my drugs or not.  Well, all I can draw from this is that God heard me and gave me what I needed, which was an end to the vicodin prescriptions.  I don't claim to be super religious, just very spiritual (there is a huge difference -- ask me if you want to know how I see it).  So this is just the way I perceive things went down.

As for me, I am 33 years old, so you might say that if I had started getting busy early (and wasn't careful) I could be your dad!  (Just a little humor there. . .it's funny to me in a way, and in another way it just makes me think "Damn, I'm old as hell. . .")  I've been married for almost 10 years and have been dating my wife since we were both 17, so she knows me pretty well and has put up with all kinds of bullshit on my account too.  I have a five year old daughter and a five month old son, these being all the kids we are going to have.

Which brings me to this. . .you know from the same experience as mine that the pills you do now you first saw your mother do when you were young (as I saw my father).  And you mentioned wanting kids of your own someday, right?  So, what can you assume they will do when they grow up if they see mommy taking pills?  I'm not putting you down at all, but one of the main reasons I want to stay quit this time is my kids.  I know that if they see daddy doing drugs that they will certainly do them too.  I think if I knew I couldn't stop, I'd rather be dead than know that someday I would be responsible for them following me into the same hell.

I'm not going to bullshit you, Amy.  I don't know what the thing will be that will make you stop once and for all. . .it's different for everyone and for some (maybe even a majority of us)it never happens at all and we simply die in our addiction.  I hope that this will not be you.  From your posts I can clearly see that you have a beautiful spirit in a terrible cage -- one that I think will be strong enough in the end to break free.  Souls such as yours are not destined to be in prison forever.  

My prayers are with you and your mother.  In my opinion, your wish to get clean by your birthday is not only the best birthday present you could ever get yourself but the best gift you could possibly get for your mother as she comes back to the world outside of prison.  I know that if I had kicked the problem (or even if I hadn't) and one of my kids were messed up, I'd give my life in a second if I knew it would save them from this.

Peace,
Pelle

[susanlea]

Thank you for your words of wisdom.  I have been down all weekend.  I know I'm expecting miracles right now.  The first month was not so bad, I stayed busy enough, but we are going into the 2nd month now, no word from him. I feel so bad for my little boys, he has not called them, he said he would the other day, but he has not. I know my children feel abandoned. I also know during the last 2 years at the worst of his addiction, I was always telling my kids, not now mommy's busy, go to your room, leave us alone, we need to talk, no I can't take you there, he' sick. How and why I did this to my kids, not being there for them, being so absorbed with my partner and his addiction, my kids were ignored. I'm trying to make it up to them, they miss him, but do not want him back in the house.  I didn't realize what they heard, and that they had an idea of what was going on.  They hated the way he talked to me and treated me.  Then he left, saying he nolonger could be with us, and that he didn't love me anymore, I had become too. difficult to live with. This has been the hardest 2 years of my life, watching someone you love who was so young, vital and full of life, become depressed, tired, sick, and his eyes have no life. I know I need to get on with my life and get over this. He's made no attempt to get the rest of his things, since momma's taking care of him.  My insurance agent called me today to tell me he had come in to  change his insurance, she wanted to know if he was sick or something, because he seemed so worn out and tired, she said he acted like a zombie. I thought methadone would make him appear normal? But from what I'm hearing, he looks and acts the same as he did on the oxy's. Can you take too much methadone? I know he was taking at one point 60 to 100mg aday. He was only supposed to start at 30mg and wean down, but his Dr. just gives him more. If I understand correctly, Methadone is also addicting.  Will there come a time that he will start getting sick again, like if he runs out early?  I have a great sponser in Al-anon and I'm  attending my meetings, but I still feel that emptiness, I haven't made it through the first step. Sorry, I hope I didn't sound to pathetic, I just want to get some normalcy in my life back, but I can't remember when this vicious cycle started. Please any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated....more than you know....love Susanlea

[pelle1985]

I'm sorry to hear how your life is going right now.  As I said, even when it seems hardest (especially then), your only responsibility is to heal yourself.  Before you do this, you will be of lesser value to everyone, especially your kids, who will need you now more than ever.

Yes, methadone is not only addicting, it is itself a narcotic.  It was originally developed under Hitler's Third Reich as a cheaper alternative to morphine which was to be given to German soldiers injured in battle.  Your ex doesn't necessarily have to be back on the oxys to be acting zombielike (although he may well be) since the stupor you speak of is also one of the primary side effects of methadone.  This is one of the reasons I do not see it as any kind of positive alternative as far as addiction is concerned.

Peace,
Pelle

[Wife§Child]

I have just learned that my husband is addicted to Darvon and Oxy. I have found large amounts of both at our home. He left myself and our two year old and entered a re-hab program somewhere but I am unsure where (his parents will not tell me). I am curious to those who have experience with these drugs- how much do they cost- I found 40mg oxy and standard capsul Darvon. He has caused us so much debt and taken every bit of cash from out bank account over the last six months. he took (a friend told me) 10-15 Darvons at a time orally and I believe he was snorting since I found a straw.

He is getting both the drugs in Mexico since we only live an hour away. How much do these Oxy's cost vs. Darvon. He has not been getting them through traditional US Doctors RX. In your opinion- I believe it started with Darvon and increased to Oxy- this has been going on for about 8 months and the Oxy probably within the last 4 months. He has never abused drugs or alchohol in the past but has become depressed due to a medical problem (cyst on his pituatiry gland causing hormonal abnormalities) and lack of energy - overall depression. He has been hiding his drug use under the medical excuse since hormone problems have overlapping symptoms.

Do you think Oxy can be beat? I am so sad that I have lost my husband to such evil and have a hard time relating to drug addition not being an addict myself.

Another question- What are the symptoms of how you feel/act using Darvon, also using Oxy. His actions were confusing since they seemed as if he was on coke- but he also had opiates signs
(small pupils, sweating, etc.) Please be candid I am trying to figure an accurate start date of his drug use so I can look back on what may have triggered the use in an effort to eventually put the puzzle back together.

Cyndie mother of Gavin 2 years old.

[susanlea]

Thank you Pelle, as usual your wisdom and compassion have touched me so.....sleep well my friend.....Love Susanlea

[Stargazing]

My son and I are both on oxys and he is going into a rehab in a few days and I am going to try to kick it at home by myself. I am so scared, yet I know that if I can just make it through the fist 3-4 days then I can do it. I still have a few oxys that I am going to use to wean myself off with and then use Lortab 10's and valiums on a scheduled basis. I have several friends who have gone through rehabs and they were given 2 Darvacet ever 4-6 hours the first 2 days then down to 1 Darvacet every 4-6 hours along with a nerve and muscle pills. I am going to use these guide lines to try to do it myself as I am not in a position to be able to go into a rehab. If any one has tryed doing this let me know and any pointers will help. I also plan on getting some of the L-Tyrosine and B6 pills to take and I already take viamin B-12 shots. Thanks for any help and wish my son and I good luck.

[pelle1985]

I wish you luck, but at the same time question why you are "not in a position" to go to a rehab but your son is. . .the only times I said to myself I wasn't in a position to go to a rehab (or something similar) were the times I really didn't want to quit.  Cutting down also never worked for me, nor have I ever known anyone whom it has worked for.  Addicts simply do not have the discipline to do this -- it is along the lines of our desire to "use successfully".  Sometimes just going through the withdrawal is necessary as a motivator to not use again.  I went through several rehabs, including one with the anti-withdrawal drugs, and never stayed clean until this last time, when I truly desired to be free.  I don't mean to be negative -- I wish you well, but please examine your motives thoroughly.  Your son will need your example to help him stay clean as well.

Peace,
Pelle

[Angelica]

I didn't want to reply in the beginning threads.  I know you are going through a rough time.  Read some of your posts to me, in the early May "Withdrawal" thread.  You seemed to be in a better place there.  When I have trouble w/ certain issues......I go back and read some of my posts, and this reinforces.  I wish there was something I could say to help.  I can relate to how tough it is raising children (I have a 4yr. & 12 yr.old). You are the head of the household, and this makes it harder on you.  One thing that really stuck out in your earlier posts: your wife is finishing classes.  I can recall when my 4yr old was an infant, and he was throwing up constantly w/ acid reflux, and never slept for more than 1.5 hrs at a time.  My husband was studying for his license, we were building a home, and man, I thought I was gonna die.  I don't know how I made it through.....but anyway, I started having severe anxiety attacks, and called this ins. nurse.....thinking(duh) I was having a heart attack.  She sent me to a shrink....and he said it was post traumatic stress, from my mva.  This sometimes happens.....years later, after tragedy, and rough times come up, and this will surface. What's the point to all this, well.....when rough times come up, those old feeling will come back.  You have to develope new habits to deal w/ stress.  NEW HABITS!!!!LOL  Whats the point to all of this, I don't know.  Don't think your alone.  We are here for you.  
Love,
Angelica

[Wizard]

What great words of encouragement you both have given to Pelle and really all of us. Even when I know we ALL are having some rough moments all of you never fail to rally round when someone is crying out.  I'm amazed at the speed the responses come here. It doesn't seem to matter what time it is Someone is ALWAYS here:-)!!!!!! You are really "ANGELS" on our shoulders...
On behalf of all of us I thank you! God bless us all,
Wiz

[Stargazing]

In my previous message I stated that I was not in a position to go into rehab and by this I mean that I do not have any medical insurance and I can not afford this type of debt. My son has a state sponsored insurance plan and therefore he can get into a rehab. I have examined my motives for quitting and when a person reaches a point where they know that they have exhausted all their living funds and therefore has to make a decision on whether they are willing to give up their home and other possesions for the drugs then that's when I made the decision to quit. I think for me getting to this point financialy was in a sense "hitting rock bottom". For about a month I went through a lot of soul searching and that is when I knew that I had to make some sort of decision. A few years ago I lived through months of watching my husband die and for me that experience made me realize that there are times in your life when you can pull something from within yourself and endure situations that normally you would never be able to live through. That period of my life was the most dificult and the worse time that I have ever had to live through. So for me it has not been as difficult a decision to quit because when I start to think twice as to whether I really have it in me to go through with the withdrawals I just sit back and remember the time I went through with my husband and know that if I could live through that period then I can make it through this. I know that I have ended up in this place now because of what happened then and I hope to be able to find some kind of counseling that I can afford and some support groups. I do not have any close family other than my 2 children and therefore I don't have anyone other than myself to fall back on financially. So I know that if I lose my home and belongings then I will end up on the streets and that will NEVER happen. Sometimes a person has to "hit bottom" in what ever way that it is for them before they can begin to think about quitting. It has helped me a lot to be able to write this out as like I said I do not have family or even close friends with whom I can talk to about this. Thanks to anyone who responds to me and any help and encouragement will be greatly appreciated.

[susanlea]

You are a very strong woman. You have come to a point in your life where you know what you need to do, to survive. I applaud you, for your courage, your strength and your determination. It really takes guts to come to where you find, you need to take the road less traveled. I can't imagine losing someone like you did, I lost mine but not in death, but in addiction. He chose his habit over us. I wish you great success in the road ahead. Everyone here will be with you and here for you anytime you need us. Like you said, everyones rock bottom is different, and you did not want to lose everything. Pray for help and guidence, God will be there step by step, one day at a time. He never gives you more than you can handle.  I will keep praying for you, you have made a remarkable decision. God Bless Love Susan Lea

[pelle1985]

Star -- thank you for your story.  You, like many here, have had a long and pain-filled journey.  I believe that you know, in your own heart and soul, your own level of commitment to your recovery, and I would never be the one to call it into question.  My peace and blessings to you as you begin following your path to recovery.

Lea -- your post to Star was, as usual, compassionate and caring.  I disagree with you on only one point, and I realize I am going out on a rather precipitous theological limb here, but this is something I feel I must share, albeit as my opinion only.

You state a view held by many, and that is that God does not give people more than they can handle.  That may be so, but very often life -- not God -- does.  God does not hand out pain and suffering, nor stand idly by while it is occuring.  Although this is not my idea (I believe it was first brought forth in the book "When Bad Things Happen To Good People", by Rabbi Harold Kushner), the concept exists that God must be *either* All-Powerful or All-Loving, but NOT both.

This is fairly simple to grasp, at least for me.  With things such as the Holocaust, mass starvation, plane crashes, and all the things we read about in our daily news, the idea of God as All-Powerful -- that is, *able* to stop such things from happening, but *unwilling* to do so -- is not conceivable to me.  I cannot imagine a God who, for whatever reasons, would stand by and allow such suffering to take place.  For those of you with children, could you imagine allowing your child to run in front of a speeding car if you could prevent it, even if you had a divine knowledge that, as a quadriplegic, your child's words and work would one day inspire millions?

The God of my understanding is one who is not All-Powerful, but is indeed All-Loving.  He does love us all,  and even though He cannot dictate us (thereby taking back His most precious and Godlike gift to us, our free will), he is the ultimate recycler.  In other words, any experience -- good, bad, awful -- can and does get completely used.  There is nothing in our lives that cannot be examined, learned from, and ultimately lead to our growth, no matter how painful or bitter it may be.  This is His greatest gift to us -- the design of a world, a solar system, a universe, or a human soul in which ultimately nothing is wasted and everything is one day restored.

Peace,
Pelle

PS -- thanks to all who took the time to read this.  Keep in mind that these thoughts are simply the way I perceive things and not "The Way It Is", necessarily.  I did not and do not intend to turn this into a "religious" forum, by any stretch, and hope none will see an intent to do so -- but these are questions that I find frequently occur to those in recovery, not only from drugs and alcohol but from lives filled with hurt.  Again, peace be with you all.

Pelle

[susanlea]

Yes God is always, A loving God. I have never been a religous person. Oh, I attended church as a child, learned the bible. But I had never really felt God inside of me. Recently I have changed my idea of this. Until I went through the hell of his addiction the past 2 years, I would read or hear about what happened to OTHER people. I would feel sorry, even concerned. But it didn NOT affect me, It didn't happen to people like me.  WRONG! Now I can see a little clearer.....I believe it takes a personal pain, a life changing experience for us to be understanding and compassionate about others. Now because of what I went through even though it's comparably insignificate  compared to what other's go through, and live through. I believe I have become a better person because of it. Nolonger can I read, see or hear about some tragidy and not be touched by it. God gave man free will....he gave us the choice and ability to do anything, unforunately that includes evil, harming others.. I used to pray to God, for all the good things. Money, Love, A Big house.  Really stupid materialist things. Now I ask God for guidence and compassion. I give what I can to him, when I can nolonger handle it. Now I do feel God inside of me. I have always taken from others and maybe give alittle back. Now I just want to give. Sometimes I thank God for everything he's given me, both  material  and spiritual. And Sometimes I thank God for Unsnwered Prayers.......Thank you my Friend.....Love Susan Lea


ps. how is your wife?

[doc00]

I must say that all of you guys are great.  Long story short, wife was addicted to oxy.  With help from family got her into detox and a inpatient rehab for 12 days.  She in turn meet someone in detox and after coming out of the hospital she has since move in with him and gotten pregnant by him.  Mind you we are not even legally divorced yet.  For whatever reason she is unwilling to attemp any kind of reconcilliation.  She has two beautiful daughters.  She blames me for the falling out due to verbal mistreatment from me.  Howver the verbalness was due to the lies, disappearances, "misplaced" money ( and alot of it), etc...  From all of the literature I've read I understand that this type of behavior is pretty expected during the early-going of a recovery.  Will this behavior subside?  When or will she ever decide to work on our ten year marriage or can I pretty much write this one off?  She came out of the hospital Feb 12 this year.  So she is going on 3 months of being clean.  Looking for some kind of information.  There just doesn't seem to be any logic behind this.  By the way the guy she moved in with is also a recovering addict, no driver's liscence (DUI), and lived with his parents at the age of 30 until they got an apartment together.  Where is the logic in leaving a sensible, christian  man that first of all forked out alot of $$ to get her off the stuff second of all loved her more thatn life (though didn't express it often enough if you asked her) and has two beautiful daughters together.  Could someone please shed some light on this situation?????  Beacuse I don't understand it!!!!

[Wizard]

What a sad story doc :-(. 12 days in patient doesn't sound like enough time to totally detox anything to me..eg. mental dependancy and all. Are you sure that they both kicked or are they using each other as an excuse to use again? It just seems so soon. When your using heavy you just don't have room inside to love anything but your drug. it's so sad when a spouse and children are shut out through no fault of their own. Getting them into rehab if THEY are not ready just doesn't work. ( I noticed you said you got her in with the help of family)It sounds like there may have been other forces at work here before she even went in for such an abrupt departure from family. Give all the love you can to your children they will need it. Hopefully she decide this is not what she wants to do and will complete a program come back home to where she is loved. doc, I will keep you and your family in my prayers. Don't give up hope for the sake off the children be there for them.
God Bless you and yours.
Power & Magick 2 U,
Peace & Light,
Wizard

[doc00]

Thanks wizard!!  I see no signs of anything changing in the near future.  Our divorce is final on the 19th.  I just hope by the grace of God that maybe she will show some signs of change before it's too late.  The funny thing is that even through the infadelity I would take her back with open ams.  Does that make me a dedicated husband or a sentamental fool?

[Wizard]

Sentimentel fool? Not! If she recovered and would come back to mother those children it makes you a Great FATHER and husband. Something about HONOR! I think there might have been vows? Sickness and in health,richer or for poorer, for BETTER or for WORSE? maybe I'm a sentimentel fool too? Doc, you just show me that you are a hero! God bless you man! good Luck with those children and I'm still praying for your family.
Power & Magick 2U,
Wizard

[Wizard]

My last post was to you doc00. There is another "doc" Dan here and I forgot to put the 00 on your handle...sorry,
Wiz

[doc00]

Thanks Wizard, your prayers are greatly appreciated!!  I will keep you posted on the evelution.

[cindi]

Hi doc,   I'm glad you met up with my friend the Wiz,,,what a wunderfulz wiz he iz....truly....ok,,,,11 years ago I went into treatment for opiate addiction.....I was not married, I however was in a terrible relationship and rehab did help me to see that I needed out.....but,,,while I was there I had developed some very intense feelings for another guy....not love nor lust,,,just "something"   but at first I thought it was something deeper...and I was not the only person to develop these "rehab romances" as they are called here in Ohio...(not the land of oz LOL) Please, remember I am not defending your wife's infidelity,,,,but trying to ease your mind and your pain. I know easier said than done....when we go into treatment we are not who we are,,,I crawled into that center, broken, tired, hurting and lacking everything,,,spirit and all   I was beaten down...so was everyone else there....we were all very vulnerable....the detox comes,  then the feelings start to come back.....and sometimes we latch onto the first person that is there exhibiting any kind of concern, compassion etc. for us or we latch onto someone who is hurting as much as we are...and then comes the "rehab high"  we are so into helping someone else,,,that we focus on them thus forgetting who we are and where we come from.the rehab high, we are are out to save everyone with a drug problem or everyone we think has a drug problem..we really are not in our own minds for the FIRST year clean...they tell us not to get into any relationshps for the first year.the fog is still lifting.... This person has an understanding and a bond with your wife in the sense that he has experienced this rehab gig, etc..maybe bond was the wrong word...a commonality....I went through this all, the rehab romance,,,(no sex involved in the center)  rehab high and then when i got out i had a whole new set of friends,,,all recovering....Please rent the movie "When a Man Loves a Women"  It is very good,,,Meg Ryan...deals with the recovery issue.....it really may help....This does not mean that you should let this woman continue to hurt you etc....this is your marriage though....maybe a support group for you my friend....I hope I have helped you to understand a little better,,,It is really early in the morning and My mind is just not awake yet....maybe I will think of soemthing else for you throughout the day.....Love to all  cin

[doc00]

Thanks cindi,  my guess is that she has just forgotten what it was like to me happily married.  We had a rough couple of year due to the drugs.  It just staggered me as to how quickly she bonded with someone else.  I guess that is the evidence that gives your insight great merit.  I suppose that when the "fog" lifts she will see what she left behind.  Thanks for your insight and please keep sending any info you can.  The more I understand, regardless the circumstances, the easier it seems.  The hardest part is having no idea why she is doing what she has done!

[susanlea]

I have to agree with Cindi and Wiz. My former boyfriend of over 5 years was an addict over the past 2 years. He lived with my two small boys and myself. During his addiction to oxy's and now methadone life with him became sheer hell. He left us almost 3 months ago, said he couldn't take it or me anymore. We, the ones who love them, become people we don't like. We start obsessing about the addict, what they're doing, with who, are they using. Last year he went into detox, I really thought he would stay clean, didn't happen. He lied stole, everything to keep me in the dark. Like Cindi said, maybe they're together as an excuse to abuse. Most addicts don't make it the first of several attempts. I know from experience that an addict loves the drug more than us. As Wiz said, they can not show or feel love while abusing. Get some information about endorphines, neurotransmitters, dopamine levels. Get to an Al-anon meeting, this will help you understand, and don't beat yourself up....You did not do this to her, or give her an excuse to do what she did to you. It's not your fault. I have to go, but I will return later and will respond if you like....everyone here will help you.....Love Susan Lea

[cindi]

after treatment we usually (if we take their advice) attend 12 step meetings  90 meetings in 90 days....we meet people that we share alot with, people who share with us...we have addiction in common..this causes us to feel this connection...and unfortunately those we love are feeling "left out"  because even though they lived through our addiction with us, put up with our ****, lying etc...they still feel they are not part of our recovery because of our "new found friends" sometimes they are jealous of our sponsors, or we may meet a person of the opposite sex we bond with..talk with..   we are always sharing or listening to other people, on the phone, at meetings etc....this is not an uncommon thing to have happen after rehab....that rehab high....and the ones we love are left in the dust....she is probably unsure of herself...what she is feeling....probably more confused than you even think she is....like i said by no means am I defending her infidelity...i have my own personal issue with infidelity not in my marriage but one very close to me....I have my own set of morals and values  as we all do and here on this forum is not the place to share my feeling on that nor judge anyone because of that....i can only tell you what happens in early recovery,from experience....I went through all the feelings...luckily I was not married...,,,the rehab romance, the rehab high and in alot of cases the ending of a marriage,,,something that is always very very sad..especially when the decision is really one sided,,,where on person still very much loves the other and then of course the children.....that is why alanon or naranon may be cood for you   give her time....obviously you would be willing to take her back,,raise her child even though it is not yours....what a good man you must be,,,,and you my friend have definately earned a spot in heaven....do what you need to do so you can be ok...she is going to do what she wants to do...hang in there and keep coming back we are here for you     Love to all  cin

[doc00]

For the recored, the children are mine,  just the fact that she could just go from full-time mom to every two weeks is just beyond me.  I love her and hope that she comes around.  Not only for me but for the kids.  Maybe she will see that what  I did was what I thought was the best thing for the family, instead of ":stabbingh her in the back".

[cindi]

I kind of figured the kids were yours but didn't you say she was also now pregnant by this other guy?  if not, please forgive me...i must have read wrong...i know how you feel about her being a full time mom and leaving...but like i said...she really does not sound as though she is in her right mind...whoc could be to leave her kids///Hopefully my friend she will turn around....and realize what she is doing....hats off to you....love to all  cin

[doc00]

Yes she was pregnant by this guy but miscarried. Maybe that in itself is some kind of sign!  I'm trying to keep my chin up, it is just so hard to see her every two weeks knowing where is going when she leaves, to another man!!  It would be so much better for me to move, but I just can't do that to the children.  Meanwhile, must get dressed for church.  Take care all and God bless!!

[cindi]

remember that is all he is  just another man,,just like a drug..I know how hard this must be for you...and I also know that it is much easier for me to type all of this than it is for you to understand...I don't expect you to understand...how can I, you haven't been there  thank Goodness...I have...just like we can't expect non addicts to understand the facets of addiction...like i said I can't really share my views on infidelity but i can tell you this..(I'm on your side) ..you must love her so very much...as much as I love and adore my husband if he were to ever be unfaithful i'm afraid it would be over...Doug is the first person I have ever felt 100% secure with...the only man i have ever trusted..ever..if he were to betray that trust how could I continue to live with him?   God love you...hang in there and I will be praying for you..,love to all    cin

[doc00]

But was the infidelity secondary to the drugs?  Was this a conscious decision or a typical reaction for someone getting clean?  So many questions with no answers!  She claims that she was seeking the attention that she craved from for a long time.  She doesn't understand that I wasn't going to be very affectionate with the circumstances as they have been for a couple of years (ie lying about money to get pills).  I guess I am trying to determine wether or not she will make a turn after the "fog " lifts and want to try to save our marriage.  I'm afraid of cutting the last ties in hopes of her turning around.

[Pillpoppa]

Hi Chad - you will not come right until you replace all the zinc/mag you have leached out of your body over the past few years - this is what 'hanging out' really is - it's your body craving zinc/mag (zinc stops cravings/magnesium stops depression). If you don't do this it will take up to 2 years to return to normal as the only other source your body has for zinc/mag is food and then it is in such tiny amounts it takes years to build up again. If you get a blood test done you will find your levels of both are way down on what they should be.


A typical tablet contains somthing like this:

Zinc amino acid chelate 75mg
Magnesium amino acis chelate 37.5mg
Vitamin B6 10mg
Manganese amino acid chelate 10mg
Viatmin A (1000I.U.) 300mcg

Grading your habit on a scale of 1-10 (1 being occasional use and 10 being long term methadone at 100 plus mg's a day) you should take the following amount for a period of one month then slowly reduce to a daily amount of 2-3 per day.

Habit scale/size - Number of tablets per day for a month

10 10
9 9
8 8
7 7
6 6
5 5
4 4
3 3
2 3
1 2
0 2

You will notice that I recommend you never go below 2 per day. This is because zinc/mag depletion was your original problem so you should give yourself an ongoing supplement to make sure it does not happen again. I now take 2-3 per day to maintain my health. I have had no failures with this treatment (everyone OK after less than a month) and have treated addictions (including my own) as varied as methadone and cigarettes. The cigarrete smoker reduced from 2 packs per day to just 5 cigarettes per day in a week without any discomfort. If you suffer any kind of 'hang out' just increase the zinc/mag dosage and give it a liitle longer to take effect (a week or so). Don't beleive all the bullshit about drug addiction you have heard - it's all **** - this is the real deal. The drugs themselves are not actually addictive but they do leach all the zinc/mag out of your body by increasing the metabolism of them creating a shortage that gets worse the longer you use unless you replace them while you are using in which case you don't hang out when you stop - you just come straight - this is true beleive me I have tried it as have a few other people I know and none of us sufferred any hang out when we stopped.

[layne2000]

Hi everyone, I am posting this same message on every Oxycontin forum I can find..........

Hi
I'm new to these forums, due unfortunately to the worst weekend of my entire life.
This drug (Oxycontin is a monster!!!! Get off it as soon as you can.
I have suffered chronic back pain for the past 10 months. The pain is almost unbearable at times.
After all else failed, my GP prescribed me 40mg oxycontin daily.
Wonder of wonders!!! they worked and I was almost pain free for a couple of weeks.
After 6 weeks, they didn't work so well, and I was on the brink of going back to the GP to have my dose increased.
A few wees ago, I ran out and ordered an emergency prescription.
Cutting a very long story short, my husband forgot to pick up the prescription so I had to wait and go without the drug all weekend.
Within 24 hours I was shaking, couldn't breathe, coughing, shivers chills the lot.
Basically, I realised I was suffering withdrawal symptoms.
I had the worst weekend of my life and have never felt so ill.
If I had an oxycontin in the house, I would have taken the damn thing to make me feel better and for these awful symptoms to go away.
While checking the withdrawal symptoms for the monster drug, I came across an old forum linked to this site, full of what I can only describe as a forum of ' lost souls'
Mostly all very genuine people like me, normal housewives, and husbands who were not drug abusers, but given oxycontin for genuine back pain.
They were all pitifully addicted to this drug and had no hope of getting off it.
Their lives were in ruins and they had no hope.
The withdrawal symptoms that hit me after 6 shorts weeks of use, were monsterous.
These poor lost souls were on a higher dose than me, and had no hope of quitting.

Needless to say, after doing my cold turkey, I have not gone back on the tablets and am suffering terribly again and my quality of life is zero sometimes.

Please please stop taking Oxycontin if you can.... it's a monster drug and highly addictive.
Don't end up suffering like me and the forum of lost souls.
I sencerely hope you all manage to find some alternative.
Kindest regards