Oxycotin relapse (sort of)...again

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

OK I am going to be honest....I filled my script and did them. I didn't want to tell anyone that because I know how most of you are going to react. I have been out for a couple of days and I am not going through much of a detox. I am however so sad at what I am doing to myself. I hope you guys don't give up on me because you think I will just fill my next script when it is due. In my heart I know this is killing me. I just don't know what to do anymore. The only time that I am happy is when I chew a couple of oxy's. If I am not high then I am not interested in anything. I don't understand why this is happening. Will I ever be able to lead a productive life without pills? It is not fair to both my girlfriend (who used also)and I to keep doing this to ourselves. I mean we went through 50 pills in 7 days. Then the same thing happens....where do we get more, how much should we spend. I am so damm sick of the cycle. How do you break it? I am tired of counting the days till my next refill. I hope someone has some words of encouragement as we are at our witts end. I feel like such a jerk for comming to you guys for help. After all I knew in the back of my mind that I was going to fill that last script. I hope you all will realize that I trully want to quit for good. I am tired of waking up in the middle of the night feeling so empty. PLEASE HELP!!!

[joedice]

hi , i feel so much like u its a carbon copy. i said so many times i was going to make it. i just made my 3rd day when baam i got a hold of 20 oxys 20mg wow i couldn,t refuse. so here i go again....there is no use in saying ...(chad) said it all exactly like i would have...so lets no beat ourselfs up so we screwed up we will try again...   i have been fighting this battle for 10 -1/2 years now...thats about it for now..god bless us all...were not alone anyway....joedice.....

[to chad]

buddy,every month we go through this. you do not want off. pint blank. once you have the script you know the story. until you are ready to confront your doc, which you know will be the turning point,take them and quit telling us how guilty you feel. what a waste. do them, go shop til you drop and enjoy. when you are ready...TELL THE DOC....plain and simple bro....but quit whining ...finish them and call the doc or you are just jerking yourself...you know it brother.....call him...dn't look for absolution. i'm not being mean...you know.

[joedice]

i think u read my post wrong buddy... if that was ment for me...thanks for the kind words joedice

[Von to Brian]

I admire your candor with respect to this problem, and I can certainly empathize. It's great to have found a group to go to where so many have the same problem, and can be supportive even when others relapse. I often feel the same way, that I'm not really happy or motivated if I don't have a couple Vicodins to chew. But this morning I really needed them, I took about 3 Vicodins and some Roxys when I got up, and am feeling much the better fot it now. You say you plan to get off all pain meds totally? What, if I may ask, did your physician prescribe them for in the first place? Do you want to replace them with a non-narcotic pain med, if you do need some type of pain management? I'm curious, because I may want that at some point, but for now, I plan to continue the regimen my doctor has me on, which is Vicodin ES, Roxicodone, and Xanax. My problem is with the Roxy and Vicodin, I haven't been making it to the end of the month, like you had mentioned. I also count the days till the next refill and all that, and I just want to manage my intake better with those. But beating yourself up for taking some after you planned to detox off them completely isn't the answer, I believe. It's extremely difficult, and I don't blame you for doing what you did, I'm sure I'd have done the same thing. Did you tell your doctor you want off them? He/she could give you some meds to help with w/drawals, I know how debilitating that is, been there many times. I think Clonopine is one, others here know much more about that from the posts I've read. Anyway, I hope you're doing Ok. The best advice I know to offer is to try to refrain from feeling guilty about it and seeing yourself as a "bad person." And ask for help with the weaning process, you're more likely to be successful that way.
Regards,
Von

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Thanks Von, If you want, go down to the post I made on 8-18. It tells a little more about me. As far as the need for pain meds. I do not need to use them for pain. I just abuse them for pleasure. No, I didn't tell my doctor I wanted off. Like I said before, I am familiar with the detox thing. That isn't the problem as much as the fact that I don't feel happy without them. I hope that as time passes I will not desire to use anymore. Do any of you feel like that? I would love to know that there is light at the end of this tunnel. As far as not telling my doc....I don't know what to do about that. I mean if I am serious I could just stop filling the scripts that he writes me. Chad

[Gene to Joanne]

Chad,
As an Oxy junkie myself, I know how hard it can be to stay away from them.  They definitely make life more fun, at least for a while.  If you are really serious about staying away from them, then you have to do things that will help you to stay sober.

First of all, you need to tell your doctor that you don't want any more Oxycontin.  You should even tell him that you don't need them and that you are addicted.  This way you won't have the thought of your upcoming script in the back of your mind, knowing that you can do them again when the script comes due.  I know you probably don't want to burn any bridges with the doctor but the only way to cut off that source is to let him know what's going on so he will not write another script during a moment of weakness on your part.

Of course you can always get them from the black market, as I did for so long.  That's where a good support system like AA or NA can make the difference between sobriety & addiction.  If you've tried the meetings before & didn't feel comfortable there, then you might want to try some other meetings in different places.  There is quite a difference between meetings in different parts of town or in different towns.  I have found 3 meetings that I absolutely love to go to. The people there are very friendly, optimistic, loving, honest, and positive addicts who actually know my name.

I go to AA because the meetings are a world better than NA.  I don't even have a drinking problem at all but if I wasn't allergic to alcohol, I would definitely be an alcoholic!

The meetings help keep me focused on why I got sober, how to stay that way, and how others do the same as well as their daily struggles in life.  I often forget why I need to go to the meetings but after I go to one, I remember how much I love them and the people there.  Without AA, I would have zero chance of staying sober after 28 years of daily drug use & abuse.

Keep on posting.  No one here thinks any less of you because you had a "slip".  We all slip, even me!

[Von to Brian]

After reading your initial post, I was wondering if you still have any pain related to the back surgery? You say you are now just taking them for pleasure, but I know invasive procedures like you had, particularly on the back, can often result in chronic pain of some degree at least. Hopefully in your case it's different, but do you still need pain management? If not, why is your doctor prescribing them? You tell him you still have pain? I don't feel comfortable discussing with my doctor my problem with management, though I've alluded to it, and he didn't turn on me or anything. As for the feelings of euphoria you experience, of course I and most of us here would understand that. I am more happy and active when I'm taking mine, there's no question. Can you return to being happy once you're off of them? I'd say of course you can. Three years ago, I wouldn't take pills for anything, I stuck to my Xanax because I need them, but other than that, nothing. I was happy, I ran a lot more than I do now, I felt great, and got many natural "highs."  I still enjoy running and workouts and feel the natural high from that, but it's intertwined now with my pain meds.

Your girlfriend's dependence on them may make it more of a challenge for you to wean off, but as long as she's adamant about getting off of them as well, you both have each other's support. If you relapse, let us know, it helps to have a nonjudgemental group to go to for support. I believe you're right in assuming that in time, you'll return to enjoying life without the oxys and not desire them anymore. I went through detox last year to try to get off the pain meds, and after a couple weeks, I had no desire for them and the w/drawals were gone. But I still had some recurring pain and chose to go back on them for that reason, not to get "high."  But I've relapsed back into going through them too quickly, and I'm not proud of it at all, and am working to correct that. It's nice to be able to talk about this in a nonjudgemental environment, among people who have been there and may still be there.  I wish you the best in your endeavor, and hope to hear how it's going for you.
Regards,
Von

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

Thanks for the supportive words guys. It really does help.
Von, you make a good point. I just started using oxycotin and perks scince my surgery. Before that I never did a pill in my life and kind of made fun of "pill heads". I did speed for awhile but quickly got bored of it. OK, maybe "quickly" isn't the right word. I did it for years. The point is I never think about doing speed. I don't have any cravings for the stuff. The problem is that I think that pain meds or opys are ten times more dangerous then most drugs out there. The reason is simple. I npersonally never woke up the next day after using speed and said "hey, let's do some more!". On the pills however, a person feels "normal" so the desire to repeat that feeling is there the next day. The funny thing is that I thought that I would never be happy without speed. After awhile, things returned to normal and my craving for that drug slowly dissapeared. I hope the same will be true for theese oxy's but I am scared that it won't go away.
Gene, I never attended an AA or NA metting. I think that I just might this time. If I know that it will help my cravings then it is something that I am defintly interested in.
I am just scared as to what the future brings. Like I said before. When I am high, I talk and get along great with everyone. I love going to the malls high. When I am straight...forget about it! OK, I'll write more later and awnser more of your questions. For now I am going to celeberate the philadelphia eagles win over the redskins.....straight!

[Frankinscense]

Methadone or LAAM maintenace is for addicts that continue to fail attempts to get off opiates. Consider these methods. They are very helpful. What do you all have to loose? Just maybe you will like them. AT least look into it. >>>What keeps you all from looking into this method of controlling your addiction? At least answer this question!<<<  Got a question? I will reply.
Six Year MMT patient,
      Danny

[to chad and von]

first off, von, why is it you seem to not believe chad when he tells you he's actually just abusing the pills and doesn't have pain??  seems to me you're trying to justify in YOUR mind YOUR own use/misuse of narcotics.  you'll no doubt be just where chad is at some point in the future.  as for you chad, same story, different month.  you obviously DON'T really want off the pills.  you say you do, but actions speak louder than words.  you do NOTHING to try to stay off them except complain after you run out.  IF you were really serious about staying off them YOU WOULD TELL YOUR DOCTOR!!!!!  as long as you have scripts coming each month YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO GET OFF THE PILLS.  is that making any sense to you??  go to NA meetings, call the doctor and tell him you're addicted and don't want/can't have any more narcotics, and get your f***in life on track buddy!  you need some tough love here, not the "oh chad, you poor thing, it's gonna be ok" while you continue to f up your life AND your girlfriend too.  remember, you should be going to school at this point.  instead, you're strung out on narcotics, no degree, no job and no future UNTIL YOU WAKE THE F UP!!!  get real with yourself my friend, you're headed nowhere.

[Gina]

Until you get some help from OUTSIDE your little circle of comfort you will never go anywhere towards beating your addiction. You need to set small goals and have them monitored by a counselor or group therapist. How many more times are you going to try (and fail) on your own. This has been going on for months and months. Every time you try and fail you lose the some of the FIGHT to try again. Please get involved with some help from NA or AA or better yet OUTPATIENT THERAPY to get you on the right track. Haven't you figured out you can't do it by yourself? When I finally got into O.P. therapy, I went 5 days a week for 4 hrs a day. The first thing I had to do was tell my dr. that I could no longer get the 120 Lorcet with 5 refills he was prescribing. It was one of the hardest things I ever had to do. I probably would have severed a limb first if I had a choice. But the truth was I no longer had a choice, if I was serious about getting clean. After I told my dr. I received so much support from my other group members that I was actually proud of myself. This forum is not a subsitute for real treatment. I believe that it was Brian who recently stated he had made the mistake of doing just that. GO CHAD and move forward today. Make the phone calls and appts. you need to start recovery. NO MORE EXCUSES!!!!!!!!!!!

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I tend to agree with the previous poster.  If you have never been to an NA or AA meeting, then maybe you are not at all serious about recovery.  You may also need professional help, but have you sought any?  I have been reading your posts here for several months and it seems you are caught in a vicious cycle of abuse.  Everyone here loves you Chad but don't expect us to be your enablers.  We can't do all the work for you while you sit around doing nothing to help yourself.  Please get with the program!  Actions do speak louder than words, show us some action before we lose the ability to take you serious and write you off as another loser.  If my post makes you angry-so what?  I've been down the road you've chosen myself and it just doesn't work.  Take care!

[seeing it all]

i tend to strongly disagree with  some of you peoples advice to get methadone. bullshit that advice sucks for most. if you guys are too weak and it worked for you good going but to advise somebody else to go that route is totally wrong.white knuckle it and stop the ****! your gonna be dead or doing a long prision term if you don t stop.if all other routes fail you then try the methodone maintence program. but kiss your life as you use to know it goodbye.very weak bunch of junkies in here !!!!!!. your not wanting to quit your using this board till you get your next refill. ps. dont bullshit a bullshitter!!!

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

You said it quite eloquently my man!  There is no easier, softer way to get off of drugs.  It takes work and lots of it.  There is no magic pill that will ever make you normal again after the dragon has bitten you.  Keep posting and maybe someone will get the message!

[Impressed]

I am impressed with the incredible grasp of the English language that the "seeing it all" poster obviously has.  A very stirring oration!

[for Sick and scared/beware of Vicky!!]

You are more then 100% correct!!  You have to REALLY want to get out of this way of life and there is no other way out but to do it cold turkey and to have the true will. You need to have your mind put totally into it. Believe me I know. The only way is to white knuckle it. Its over fast believe me. There is nothing wrong with NA and AA for support but like I said, you must mean it when you say you want to stop, or it just wont work.
BEEN THERE, DONE THAT. Clean for 5 years!!!!

[to chad and von]

That must be the dumbest thing ever written.  "There is no other way out than to do it cold turkey..."  First of all, that is patently FALSE information.  Medication is far better to get someone off the drugs than cold turkey.  That doesn't mean methadone, which is better as a maintainence medication than a detox med.  It DOES mean other medications to assist: buprenorphine, clonidine, bentyl, xanax/ativan, etc.  Many addicts fail to quit BECAUSE of the severe withdrawal.  Maybe you were too ignorant to get medication to assist you, or perhaps you just like to "gut out" pain, but most people would be benefitted by detoxing with medical help.  Furthermore, just getting off the drugs is only the first step.  Maybe that's all it took for you, but the vast majority of people will relapse UNLESS they do some sort of recovery program (NA, AA, private therapy, etc.).  So, kindly post your info as simply what worked for you.  Do not spread misinformation as though you are preaching the gospel, which you are not.

[for Sick and scared/beware of Vicky!!]

If you read my post again you will see where I suggested using NA.
All the drugs you suggested to use to detox are also ADDICTING and you must wean from those as well. But I am sure that YOU KNEW THAT SINCE YOU ARE THE AUTHORITIVE FIGURE HERE WITH ALL THE ANSWERS!
This forum seems to be run by a chosen few and if anyone else dare suggest anything there seem to be a few "regulars" that jump down our throats.

Kiss my ass!!!!

[Von to Brian]

I never implied that Chad was "lying" when he stated he took his meds just for pleasure. Given his stated history, I thought it a legitimate question as to whether he still had any continued pain from his surgery. If so, I'd say he may be in need of pain management, or perhaps not. Which is why I asked the question. As for your implication that I am somehow "justifying" my own "abuse" of medication, I take offense with that. You don't know me, or others enough, for that matter, to make such a sweeping generalization.  Furthermore, shouting and resorting to putting people down for being forthright in expressing their struggles isn't exactly what I'd consider to be empathetic, or even mature for that matter.

Chad, you can return to being virtually pill free, or narcotic free, given time and determination. If you feel you need help with it, you know where to go for that. I've gone off them for significant periods of time the past couple years,  felt just fine, and took OTC meds for pain. Then the pain got to where the OTC's weren't effective, so my doctor put me back on Vicodin ES. He's scheduled tests in the meantime to try to pin the problem down.  So we're working towards a goal, and I'm satisfied with that.  What types of treatment plans do you and your doctor discuss, if I may ask?

Well, I'm going to catch some of the political spin for a bit, though I should proceed with caution, lest we political junkies succumb to an overdose.
Regards,
Von

[Charlie to C]

Hey man, just chill out and take a good, long look at where you want to go with your recovery.  I think people posting here should simply "suggest" what has worked for them in the past; not preach to someone reaching out for help.  Relapse is a common occurence with  the disease we all have.  I have kicked opiates with medication.  This was 5 years ago in an in-patient treatment facility.  I was given the usual; librium, vitamins, and I tapered slowly off of the hydrocodone, under a doctor's watchful eye.  I stayed clean for 4 years, and I relapsed in September of 99.  I used until September 2000, 2 months ago.  I detoxed on my own this time "cold turkey".  It was a real *****.  I have been clean now for over 60 days.  Life is so much better, not having to find hydro or oxy every day.  I wish you the best of luck, whichever way you decide to try and kick it.  Just remember, one day at a time, and if you don't make it post again and let us know.  I hope you do kick it and stay clean, but you have my support 100% regardless of the outcome.
CHARLIE

[Charlie to C]

Hey man, just chill and take a look at the whole picture; where  do you want to go with your recovery and to what measures will you take to get there?  Personally, I think people who post here should simply suggest what has worked for them; not preach to people who are reaching out for help.  Sure, the best thing for you to do is to come clean with your doctor and stop the scripts and refills.  That is much easier said than done.  If, for some reason, you get clean and then relapse, you are completely on your own for resources.  It's easy for some of the people who posted earlier to tell you to tell the doctor and get on with your program, but it's another thing when you are shaking like a dog sh-----g peach seeds, ready to do anything for a pill to end the withdrawals.  I wish you the best of luck.  For myself, I ran out of my last script and then quit "cold turkey".  Five years ago I went to an in-patient rehab and quit with meds under a doctor's watchful eye.  I have done it both ways and I was able to get clean.  I stayed clean for 4 years the first time, and I have been clean now, after detoxing on my own, for 64 days.  I hope you can get there soon.  If you do relapse, post again and I'll give you my full support; you will not be judged by me.
CHARLIE

[J.B. to Brian and Vicky]

I've been reading some of your old posts and am proud to hear you are doing so well!  Sixty four days is a long time to be clean and I hope you keep adding more days.  I've always said that stopping is the easy part, staying stopped takes a lot of grunt work and vigilence.  It's always waiting just around the corner, waiting for the instant we let our guard down-a moment of weakness.  Depression has always been my weak spot so I work on depression first.  The main thing is that you have to learn all you can about yourself so you can give focus to your weaknesses.  The longer you stay clean, the better are your chances in recovery.  Good luck and be well!

[CHAD FROM PHILLY!!!]

I understand all of your views. I have a question. How do I find out about a AA or NA meeting in my area and what can I expect?
I am still so frusterated at this whole thing and feel like ****! I need help!!!!!! chad

[To Chad and Everyone from Kimberly]

I have been going to this wonderful site for about a year and I remember your original post.  I too have not been able to make it yet.  I feel very guilty, my life revolves around the pills and now so does my family's.  I have lied to my doc and been well supplied for the past few months.  I have chronic Kidney stones, I am 33 and I have 2 children.  I can get more pills in a few days and I just don't want to be on this anymore.  My pain is minimal right now and I have been looking into meditation and other methods to deal with the pain when it comes back.  But I don't take them for pain anymore, I take them to feel motivated and happy.  I have detoxed before and never got any better, meaning the withdrawls went away but I never got any energy or enthusiasm back.  I never tried NA or AA, I think I will.  Maybe that is my problem,  I need help sticking with the shitty feeling until I physiologically begin to be able to make myself happy and interested in life.  I have support at home, but my boyfriend is also an addict, addicted to everything, although he only uses Marajuana at the time, this is his attempt to slowly let go of all his addictions.  We are thinking about hypnotism, I have heard it helps some people.  I have always been the strong one, among my friends and family and when I talk to them about this I hear, "Youll be OK, You can do it"  I feel it is very minimized by them.  I know they believe I am strong enough to do get through it but someone needs to understand that this is so much bigger than anything I have ever gone through.  But I guess you can't understand until you go through it.  I have a lot of interests and I feel if I can hang on to them without the drugs I will be OK.  Thank you for listining to me vent and sorry about my horible spelling.  God Bless  Kimberly